SkinsNumberOne

It feels strange when your brain melts.

Sacks and pressures are, by many, considered a QB statistic. Feeling the pocket, stepping up at the right times, releasing at the right times to the right players, keeping your cool; those are all key components of how your protection looks. Wentz looked really bad on all of those metrics. I'm not saying he couldn't improve with some time and some better OL play (but, I think most importantly, MORE RUNNING PLAYS CALLED), but I don't know if it's as simple as "he needs better protection."

Hm, I think you may have missed a couple of key points. Part of the reasons coaches struggle here is because the organization is set up for them to fail in some respects, and in others it is set up to feed their desires. So, do they know their weaknesses (independently), and avoid them, or do they give in? Do they hire their kids/buddies all over the place? I think the guy who did it the best may have been Shanahan, but he also had a lot of owner interference. I haven't gotten the impression that Rivera has had the same level, just based on him hiring so many buddies (so, so many). Snyder is so well established as a poison and this org as a cesspool, he has to promise the kitchen sink to get "good" coaches, who then get power hungry and do things that maybe if they were forced to check themselves against a Pres or GM, they wouldn't do. Not so, here. So it creates the laissez-faire attitude you reference to some degree. All that said, you are DEAD ON with accountability issues. Again, though, it is related to having all of that power. They don't see themselves as accountable, because it's practically in their contract that way! That's the only way they CAME here, after all. I think you are right though - Rivera should OWN the performance on the field. In particular, the playcalling which was much better today, and look at that, a W. I think we'd be sniffing 4 wins by now with the same playcalling against DAL and PHI. With consistent running plays, even with just Gibson, we would have been competitive in those games.

That statement doesn't mean "because she survived cancer" - they are trying to play the victim, yes, but they are just trying to list her positives. Yes it is weird though. The emphasis on Tanya is really strange.

It IS a concern, but I think Spurrier and Rivera have left clear prints. They brought in chums that are clear indications that their decisions carried weight during their time here. I'm not saying every draft/FA pick was specifically them, but there are many moves in draft/FA that have their clear prints. So in that respect, yes it is different from other regimes. That doesn't mean that some of the big moves (Wentz for example) weren't nudged, sure. That isn't the make-or-break for this team being as bad as it is. When you play against horrible Run defenses, and your OC doesn't run the ball - that ain't Snyder! Let's not mix the fact that Snyder is a horrible owner (clear observable) with Scott Turner is a horrible OC (clear observable) and Ron gives him a lot of cover (seen in press conferences, and unearned 3-year extension).

Hey hey hey, wait a second. Spurrier is the one who filled the team up with Gators who had failed everywhere, thinking that they just needed his magical scheme. Zorn made some very obvious mistakes. Jay Gruden, also, was given a lot of leeway. The stories about him (like the ones with DJ Swearinger) are crazy and have nothing to do with the org. Everyone else... yeah. Reverse car wash. Yes, from what I heard, all organizational problems are traceable to Bruce. Not sure where I heard that, but yeah, org should be good now. Bruce gone = we good /sarcasm

Is that the obvious lesson here? I mean, look at the other NFC East teams? Rivera wants to say Quarterback is what divides the NFC East teams. Do you agree? The Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are winning because teams can adapt systems and make systems win without requiring a specific Quarterback. Scott Turner's system requires all of the pieces to fit just so... otherwise.. JENGA! This failure is because the system requires far too much; Scott himself has essentially said that (but he's too stupid to understand it) in the past. It's easy to blame QBs when they don't make the "perfect decision" or the "perfect play" in a situation. Is that realistic? How many quarterbacks need to come through and perform at best average (Alex Smith) until everyone universally realizes that the OC we have needs to be replaced before any QB would have any success? Josh Allen could come here, he would be a total failure. Maholmes. You have to have other pieces in place for success, starting with an OC who knows what he's doing. I am not saying there isn't a magic formula that could make Scott's decisions work, I am just saying the odds are against it. There's plenty of data to back my statement up.

Well, the sequence of statements is great. "What makes the other divisional teams better?" "Quarterback." "Hmm, so just to be clear, uh, Cooper Rush. Cooper Rush? " "Oh, well HE is a guy who fits their system." I mean, the excuse machine is so broken it is just spewing nonsense. The "system" doesn't require a specific QB, that is "the system" - it is called a "winning system" when you consider the factors at play in the NFL, overpaid QBs, teams that are hard to construct. You have to have a combination of a few factors to be in Super Bowl conversations: - flexible scheme to accommodate for different players - players who are good values If you have those two factors, you can be a perennial winner. The way the structure is set, you cannot count on contract shenanigans to carry you. You can't get 1-year rentals and think you will renew them if they perform (especially at QB), because they will eat too much of your salary cap. The decision making of the Commanders COMPLETELY LACKS visibility on the importance of those two factors. They do the exact opposite: - search idiotically for magical fits that will make an inane offensive scheme suddenly look great; one that has never had success yet, despite getting multiple years (cue excuse machine; but, but, the personnel didn't match!) - let "good value" players (maybe not the most talented you have, mind you) walk Just to be clear, I think the Cowboys team is extremely overrated; they are far from one of the elite teams in the league. I don't necessarily think they win that game without help from the refs, but I think it's possible they do. However, Ron Rivera right now looks much worse than McCarthy, and that is pretty pathetic. It is of his own doing though, because he took the reins of this team and has driven it to the trash heap.

Just read an old 2020 article talking about how Scott Turner in Carolina was OC for four games: 0-4 record outside of garbage time (last 5 mins): avg 8 points per game sound familiar? Nothing changed for this guy after this many years, but of course it’s the qb Ron! some other interesting tidbits in article about nepotism: https://deadspin.com/dwayne-haskins-sacrificed-for-nfl-nepotism-of-scott-tur-1845339489

My kids are fans and I just try to make sure they don’t spend three hours every week glued to this. It is too much of a time and life commitment when the outcome is known, and the product is not even entertaining. I may be ok with watching full games with them again when Scott is gone. Right now this offense is hot garbage. It is just too much to see this level of abject incompetence.

Yes that is a big mention, I just got tired of listing, haha. I actually didn't know that last point from Keim, interesting. Yeah I did read how upset BUF was. That's pretty stupid; a LOT of good things happen when you maintain good relationships. This is the other huge indictment I see in Rivera. He was supposed to usher in "respectability" and a "culture change" but this offseason proved the opposite. They made huge missteps that proved "more of the same" and in some cases MUCH WORSE than with Kyle Smith running our FA/draft. We have 0 respect from the Colts and Buf. Colts because they 100% know they fleeced us, we had no competition and overpaid for Wentz REGARDLESS of his performance. You don't overpay for no reason! BUF was very annoyed by the McKissic situation. McKissic clearly wanted to stay in WAS. The thing you are referencing as a "mistake" - do you know, they said that was their "POLICY???" So it wasn't really a "mistake" as much as the most moronic plan you could imagine. Much worse than a mistake. Either this was a VERY STUPID plan, OR (and I think this is true) they knew they'd have attrition from Wentz contract and some negative pub, so they decided to not contact anyone and let "nature take its course." Well, guess who you lose then? You lose your BEST VALUES, other teams swoop in and take YOUR BEST VALUES. What an absolute shock that Settle, Carter, and McKissic disappeared so quickly, along with Ionnaidis who was particularly upset about treatment (culture change??). This lack of respect to players is the opposite of culture change and respectability. This is the kind of stuff where I saw with confidence, Snyder or not, this regime of Rivera and FO need to get the boot. Actually I really think Rivera has managed what I thought impossible. He took away a lot of places where we had some real potential growing. Amazing. Managed to make this team demonstrably worse.

I dislike Dan as much or more than anyone. I stand by that. However, a lot of the moves have Ron's imprint on them. I don't know, maybe Dan said "you can't go with O'Connell, I don't like him" or "Get rid of Kyle Smith, he smells" or whatever. I have no idea. All I know is, everyone who we ended up having here: Scott Turner, Marties, all of them have specific associations with Rivera's past. It just became clear that Rivera thinks that he has some crack team. The record speaks for itself. Even if they have some wins later this year, it's another poor start and I don't see them turning it around to make the playoffs. Most of us think they probably end the year with a bottom-feeder record. Bottom-feeder, average, whatever, I just don't think it matters. Rivera has built a team based on favoritism, and we are seeing what happens when merit is so low on your priority list. We are not in the rooms with Rivera, that is true, but at the very least I think signing Scott Turner to a 3-year extension was unearned and asinine. Just like Wentz, no one was calling for Scott Turner.

They may be getting close to the Super Bowel, where all of the worst teams get to. If the past three weeks are any indication (and yes, I include Detroit based on the first half there and then making similar mistakes in two more games), then I think this team has a very good chance of being the worst we've seen. I do think that someone will force Turner to run the ball more at some point in the season, and then we'll win some games. I believe that will happen. I don't believe any sane person should accept that as proof that this HC or his creation (GMs, coaching staff) deserve any more time here. Just my opinion, but there was too much obvious stupidity: - Wentz's deal cost way too much; no one was competing for his services, so we definitely overpaid. Colts basically gloated about it later. - Wentz's deal led to a LOT of attrition that was basically admitted. - Ioannidis (his agent said something about Wentz contract being why the FO changed their minds on keeping him) - Settle (just a guess that it was related, but regardless I think this was idiotic) - DeAndre Carter (again, idiotic planning) - Jamin Davis as a first round pick; this was widely thought to be a reach. It looks like this was a reach. When you make moves as if you are the smartest guys in the room, and you end up being very wrong, that's a bad look. Some analysts are saying that Davis is being asked to do too much (in terms of complexity) by Del Rio. In both cases, in my mind, it is a reflection of Rivera in some way because Rivera has his fingerprints on the FO and coaching staff to such a large degree. - There is more, a lot more, but anyway I think it's enough

Too bad the refs didn't call holding on one of them. Maybe they could sack Wentz next week just to one-up themselves.

I have been a subscriber of the Snyder cycle since Shanahan. When Snyder got rid of Cerrato, I hoped that things would get better for obvious reasons. The alternative was pretty sad. Here we are. When the Shanahan thing blew up, I knew we were toast in terms of reaching any high levels of success. To me, though, there is a LARGE gap between "high levels of success" and what we saw on the field the last three weeks. What Scott Turner has put together. There is a LARGE gap between those two things. I also personally don't remember a time when a coach was given as much power over this team since Schottenheimer. Even with Gibbs, Snyder was enjoying buddying up and feeling like a big shot, being in the room making decisions with Cerrato and Gibbs. I think Schottenheimer kicked him out, and Shanahan wanted to but couldn't. I don't know if Ron wants to kick him out or not, or what has happened there, but I imagine Snyder has been somewhat involved. Still, this is the first time I have ever seen a coach get this much power in Washington since Schottenheimer, that is my feeling. The result has been atrocious, so a lot of my feelings are about getting Ron out because he's just so, so bad at this point (along with Turner in particular).

I don't know, "turn it around" to a super bowl? No. "Turn it around" from what we saw the last three weeks? Yes, I think that is doable. I think we are at a point that is low enough to say, yes, even a Snyder-owned team can be better than this. -- but let me be clear, I'm not "jazzed" about it. Just think we can do better than what we see right now.

Hey, it is depressing, I agree, but in my opinion the on-field product with Scott Turner trotting out the same nonsense every year to start, and even having a 4-game winning streak in the middle where it looked like he understood playcalling (only to turn it right around again late)... For me, this looks like the biggest disparity in player talent level and coaching that I've seen. Right now, I lay more of the blame on coaching than I have in a long time. I mean, Spurrier made some stupid decisions with the Florida-Skins, but he basically hosed himself with his players AND his plans. This group is making us worse on personnel (in my opinion, getting Wentz and subsequently losing a lot of good value players made us MUCH worse), but even then, they are underperforming with what they have. This is also an annual occurrence. What has become clear to me is Ron is just not a good head coach, and he has surrounded himself with idiots. The number one on that list appears to be Scott, and Ron is standing by him to the tune of an unearned 3-year extension. That pair alone is why, even with the potential of another Zorn like situation, I'm ready to move on at this point. Well, yeah. With Snyder, the pinnacle of success is a playoff win. I do believe that is true. Snyder breaks his toy at that point.

We have to live in reality. No pedigreed person is coming here, unless it's with some kind of crazy contract that at this point is too unlikely. So, it HAS to be a gamble. Actually, Kyle may be too pedigreed - and I am not trying to exaggerate HIM, I am just trying to be honest about where this team is and it can actually attract at this point. Kyle Smith was, according to Ron, given a LOT of responsibilty. When he left, he had risen to VP / Personnel or something, he had most of the responsibility in draft and FA at that time. I think that is where we did get some good value in later rounds, including I believe Kam Curl. Those are building block players - you can actually WIN with those, on ANY team (good teams, bad teams, any team). That is NOT something to take lightly. However: don't get me wrong, he had plenty of what seemed to be misses too. I just thought overall, I liked what was happening more when he was here, and from what I could see/hear of his thoughts, I agreed with them conceptually. Draft/FA process is obviously very difficult. I prefer him to the Marties; I feel like the Marties are more like proven to be bad at their jobs.

My personal belief: that would have worked out really well. Where was that reporting? I never heard that? I saw theories that Dan was part of Kyle NOT having a future here, potentially. I mean, the Marties definitely smelled like Ron, and the KOC interview smelled like a sham when it was followed with Scotty boy getting the job. So all of that had a strong Rivera feel to it. I didn't ever hear that Snyder actually liked Kyle Smith, I only heard that story about him speaking his mind, which made me think Dan didn't like Kyle. I don't know man, Smith's track record here didn't seem like it was too bad

You're not wrong, and I was happy he was the coach of the Giants, as I'm sure they are happy in 2022 for Rivera to be our coach. Joe Judge was horrible, but he was trying to emulate Bellichick's style of presser from the get-go. It was "well we're trying to build something" and "on to the next game, we made some mistakes, we'll look at film" - he was trying really hard to build a culture and NOT point fingers. I have no love for Joe Judge other than as coach of the Giants and any part he had in them being putrid; there is deep affection for him there actually. Ha. Still, trying to be fair - and I hate Bill Bellichick - but doing press conferences, it is not rocket science (or it really shouldn't be). You NEVER throw players under the bus. It literally hurts the team in HUGE ways, because players and agents already don't want to come to a loser, but a loser that damages careers even more with blame (losing already is not great for a career). So, that's just a ridiculously bad look. Judge, from what I remember, really tried not to even though things were going pretty bad for a LONG time there. Look, it's easy to be considered a good coach, good press conferences, good everything when you are winning. I brought up Judge because as much as he seemed like a bad coach in a lot of ways, I thought one thing people could learn from him was trying to keep the temperature moderate no matter the situation, and he was trying to emulate the guy I think he clearly sees as his mentor there. Let's petition someone, maybe Bezos, or Leonsis, to start a new franchise. Anyway that black and gold thing on the team was barely recognizable in all ways (colors, play, name... everything).

I disagree. Joe Judge stood there and took blame for almost every single loss. He tried to sell the Bellichick line: we will handle it internally. He generally tried to say that (sometimes I think he broke that rule a bit). Even though I didn't think much of his success as a coach, I will say it's unclear how much of it was organizational, and also I did respect how he did SOME of the press conferences (not so much his nonsense comments about our team, but I think he was grasping at that point). Anyway, my point is, good leaders who are truly trying to build a strong culture don't point fingers. THAT *WILL* bring players here. This regime has already done that multiple times.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I liked McVay and Shanahan before they left. In a large community of people, you are going to get people who dislike/like all different people. Well, with McVay, maybe a little less, but Shanahan was the guy I thought we'd REALLY miss. That was someone who, while here, was definitely adapting scheme to personnel. That isn't happening with Turner. It's a totally different experience comparing their performance as coaches *here* - it has nothing to do with ownership in that respect. Yes, we have a horrible owner. Yes, it means a Super Bowl is extremely unlikely while we have that owner. No, it doesn't mean we have to be THIS bad. This is Ron's doing, and I actually think he has messed up pieces that were improving ( - Kyle Smith, + Mayhew + Hurney). Kyle Smith was an up and coming guy. Mayhew and Hurney were viewed as having failed at their previous attempts. It doesn't take a genius to see which one seems better. I get that maybe there were internal personal issues, or any of a number of other reasons to go that route, but Ron still has to own the dumpster fire he has set ablaze here ON THE FIELD. The other dumpster fire, the much larger one, of course is Snyder's. But this is the first time since Schottenheimer that I can see one person's stamp all over the place who is not Snyder, maybe because Snyder has been distracted by his various legal troubles.

I agree. I haven't watched it, but from your description it sounds horrible. He just can't admit any mistakes, and he is just rolling out excuses after excuses. Starting with blaming players is the worst look of all (Jamin Davis, Wentz, others), because it shows a lack of leadership, pure and simple. Players respect coaches who provide some cover for them, so they can focus on their jobs. You keep it in-house. That is as simple as it gets, and we can't do THAT right? Signing Turner to a 3-year extension made 0 sense. NONE. It was unearned, and NO ONE was knocking on the door for him. It was just Ron being Ron. Hiring Marties, and pretending that Kyle Smith somehow did something wrong with how he handled personnel? Supposedly interviewing O'Connell and then picking Turner? It has just been a big pile of garbage, and I have waited to see the results. I refused to jump to judgement. I think the results are in, especially after these kinds of press conferences.

I mean, this thread was about how Blade looked at the team he saw yesterday and struggled to recognize it. That pic was the same, at least for me. How do you get to that pic from this: For some, that is a favorite quote. I found this clip from a thread on this very forum, after all: RIP Former Skin Sam Wyche "Die, you yellow dogs, die!" - The Stadium - Extremeskins (redskins.com)

Unfortunately, I think there have been key mistakes in personnel ( + Wentz, - Carter, - Settle), as well as ridiculous coaching decisions. The Eagles D had success against the pass, and struggled against the run. It was an easy decision for anyone but the most idiotic and arrogant OC. I guess that is who we have, because somehow we ended up repeatedly calling pass plays. Do you remember when Bellichick called a game with all run plays last year? I dislike Bill B as much as anyone, but I mean, you have to be willing to call plays to WIN. You play to WIN. You don't play to win your way. Scott doesn't get it, and for that, he should be fired at this point. It's gone on too long, and he's had ample opportunity (given by Ron) to fix his thinking. Instead: 3-year extension? Hire Mayhew? Hire Hurney? Let Kyle Smith go? Now: complain incessantly about Jamin Davis and others who you should OWN as big decisions? So, then you start saying, I guess Ron has to go too. That 3-year extension for Turner really rankles me. It was unearned. No one was clamoring to grab Turner from us. OConnell was gone pretty quickly. Interesting - what are the reasons you dislike Turner? I mean, obviously he has called bad games (hopefully obvious) but he has continually done exactly those things that you listed, with disastrous results. My take is, there is no set of statistics that can be applied to every situation, and he has refused to adapt his mentality and play-calling to the circumstances that are staring him in the face. I am open to anything that gets a W. Turner seems to think that there is a one-size fits all way to win.