All things defense

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, SAli457180 said:

Listed to Rivera on the Junkies this morning and he talked about the mistakes that were made on the Jones and Slayton TDs that weren't by the players on defense, but didn't specifically mention anyone by name.  IMO, both were on Collins. I think these mistakes are fixable and this shouldn't be a season long problem, but let's what happens.  

 

You're not fixing Collins at this point. My read on Collins WITHOUT KNOWING HIM AT ALL. I put that in caps because I am not there and have zero idea if this is really whats going on. It's a guess.

 

But my read on Collins: Went out last year, didn't love that a 7th rounder came in and the D immediately got better. Came into this season with something to prove and he is freelancing even more than usual while also making the same mistakes as before. He seems to have a giant chip on his shoulder and that is impacting the total play of the D.

 

He is not the only reason the D isn't up to snuff, to be clear. But an upset in harmony is an upset in performance. 

[ThomasRoane]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You're not fixing Collins at this point. My read on Collins WITHOUT KNOWING HIM AT ALL. I put that in caps because I am not there and have zero idea if this is really whats going on. It's a guess.

 

 

He's just another in a long line of FA safeties desperately trying to be Sean Taylor but I believe God has decided there will be only one.  How many more will we go thru?  I hope he's the last!

 

I would seriously be shopping him for a draft pick.  Hell, I'd take a fifth for him.  

[Tedskins 21]

14 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

He's just another in a long line of FA safeties desperately trying to be Sean Taylor but I believe God has decided there will be only one.  How many more will we go thru?  I hope he's the last!

 

I would seriously be shopping him for a draft pick.  Hell, I'd take a fifth for him.  

 

I'd take a 7th, but no one is trading for Collins.

[ThomasRoane]

2 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

I'd take a 7th, but no one is trading for Collins.

 

Especially at his salary.  I hope we've seen the last of paying top $ for underachievers.  WJIII looks like a good deal.  Samuels is still unknown.  Can't put Collins on current staff.  They inherited him.  

[Wildbunny]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t get the sense Young is even remotely close to LaVar. If we were going to assign the LaVar label to anyone on the D it is Collins. Hands down.

 

I don’t think he’s doing it selfishly, but I think he’s doing it because he doesn’t trust his teammates and that makes him look pretty bad while also stopping him from doing his own job.

I'm not sure he doesn't trust his teammates.

I agree on the general statement, but I'd rather say he does it because he really believes he has to because of all the hype he helped creating surrounding the D.

 

Like that's his mission, or stuff like that. That may be seen as a lack of trust, but I don't think it is.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Whatever his reasoning, it’s piss poor and needs to stop. 

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

But my read on Collins: Went out last year, didn't love that a 7th rounder came in and the D immediately got better. Came into this season with something to prove and he is freelancing even more than usual while also making the same mistakes as before. He seems to have a giant chip on his shoulder and that is impacting the total play of the D.

Collins said last year he didn't feel comfortable in the defense until after Week 6, going into Week 7 Dallas game where he tore his Achilles. From his own mouth, he's stated that he's far more humble than the assumptions your making.  Doesn't mean non of what you're assuming isn't the case. 

My perspective would be that:

1.  William Jackson and Collins are equally responsible for the blown coverage.
2. Collins should be rotated on passing downs.
3. JDR needs to put his players in better position to win.
4. WFT defense will need a few more weeks of tough love before they figure out what works.

Week 3 and it's the offense that's carrying the load.  Imagine the possibilities for future games where both units are clicking.  Everyone can dream I guess.

[Capsman]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

I'm not sure he doesn't trust his teammates.

I agree on the general statement, but I'd rather say he does it because he really believes he has to because of all the hype he helped creating surrounding the D.

 

Like that's his mission, or stuff like that. That may be seen as a lack of trust, but I don't think it is.

Why would not trusting teammates even have anything to do with his inability to beat mediocre tackles one on one? I think the issue is pretty straightforward right now, he's just not that good (at least as a pass rusher, again his run defense is decent for the most part).  Maybe he gets better but he does not look like someone who will ever be an elite pass rusher.  Not just the lack of moves but I don't see that balance and strength on his edges, he gets easily pushed out of plays (or knocked on his ass).  

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Capsman said:

Why would not trusting teammates even have anything to do with his inability to beat mediocre tackles one on one? I think the issue is pretty straightforward right now, he's just not that good (at least as a pass rusher, again his run defense is decent for the most part).  Maybe he gets better but he does not look like someone who will ever be an elite pass rusher.  Not just the lack of moves but I don't see that balance and strength on his edges, he gets easily pushed out of plays (or knocked on his ass).  

I think we’re talking about Collins and you’re talking about Chase.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

Collins said last year he didn't feel comfortable in the defense until after Week 6, going into Week 7 Dallas game where he tore his Achilles. From his own mouth, he's stated that he's far more humble than the assumptions your making.  Doesn't mean non of what you're assuming isn't the case. 

My perspective would be that:

1.  William Jackson and Collins are equally responsible for the blown coverage.
2. Collins should be rotated on passing downs.
3. JDR needs to put his players in better position to win.
4. WFT defense will need a few more weeks of tough love before they figure out what works.

Week 3 and it's the offense that's carrying the load.  Imagine the possibilities for future games where both units are clicking.  Everyone can dream I guess.

1. What coverage do you think they were in to put Jackson at fault?

 

2. Tough to play someone that you have to rotate out when his backup is better against the run and pass.

 

3. yup

 

4. I think they know what works and they are just hesitant on pulling the trigger.

[Warhead36]

I think schematically we're pretty vanilla which works when our players win 1 on 1 matchups consistently. The problem right now is we aren't. Del Rio needs to spice things up. Move Young around the DL. Run some stuns. Zone blitz more. We're not a very exotic or creative D, which again wasn't an issue last year when we were pummeling all the backup QBs and OLs we faced. But Nick Mullens and Andy Dalton aren't walking through that door.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think schematically we're pretty vanilla which works when our players win 1 on 1 matchups consistently. The problem right now is we aren't. Del Rio needs to spice things up. Move Young around the DL. Run some stuns. Zone blitz more. We're not a very exotic or creative D, which again wasn't an issue last year when we were pummeling all the backup QBs and OLs we faced. But Nick Mullens and Andy Dalton aren't walking through that door.

Man, from my fan view (no film watching) they seem to be moving him around quite a bit. Often times bringing a blitzer on his side to create 1 on 1 situations. 

[Koolblue13]

LBers should get that 3 year rule we use for WRs and TEs.

[goskins10]

@KDawg have you or anyone else determined if JDR has indeed switched to a 2 gap front? I do not have replay or coaches replays to really look. Also, you and others know what you are looking for better than I. 

 

If he has made that change, isn't that a huge misuse of the players? And why would they make that change? Sorry if this has already been hashed out. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

@KDawg have you or anyone else determined if JDR has indeed switched to a 2 gap front? I do not have replay or coaches replays to really look. Also, you and others know what you are looking for better than I. 

 

If he has made that change, isn't that a huge misuse of the players? And why would they make that change? Sorry if this has already been hashed out. 

Haven’t had time to watch. I’m in season so my free time goes to my team for film. 
 

If he is using it as a base, yes. If he is using it as a change up it’s not a big deal.

41 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

LBers should get that 3 year rule we use for WRs and TEs.

What’s that?

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

What’s that?

Like we use to always say that it takes about until year 3 to really tell if a WR is going to break out or not.

 

LBer, especially MLB, takes a while to get up to speed of the league and learn the play books and tendacies.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Like we use to always say that it takes about until year 3 to really tell if a WR is going to break out or not.

 

LBer, especially MLB, takes a while to get up to speed of the league and learn the play books and tendacies.

Tell that to Kenneth Murray and Logan Wilson.

 

And, to be fair, I think in about 3-4 weeks I'll be saying, "Tell that to Jamin Davis".

[Koolblue13]

Just now, KDawg said:

Tell that to Kenneth Murray and Logan Wilson.

 

And, to be fair, I think in about 3-4 weeks I'll be saying, "Tell that to Jamin Davis".

I guess those exceptions mean that I just made that up and nobody says it.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I guess those exceptions mean that I just made that up and nobody says it.

To be fair I think you did make it up for linebackers. I think even you said it above.

 

"LBers should get that 3 year rule we use for WRs and TEs."

 

Having said that, it doesn't mean you're wrong. But really that should be the kind of thing that is a general rule of thumb anyways. Positionless. But sometimes guys show or don't show what's necessary before that time to give you an idea one way or the other. 

[MartinC]

14 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Collins said last year he didn't feel comfortable in the defense until after Week 6, going into Week 7 Dallas game where he tore his Achilles. From his own mouth, he's stated that he's far more humble than the assumptions your making.  Doesn't mean non of what you're assuming isn't the case. 

My perspective would be that:

1.  William Jackson and Collins are equally responsible for the blown coverage.

They can’t both be responsible. It looked like Williams was expecting Collins to have deep inside coverage and was passing him on - meanwhile Collins had jumped the crossing route in front of him.

 

it’s the old ‘just do YOUR job’ thing.

[Koolblue13]

Williams has been fantastic for us.

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Williams has been fantastic for us.

Do you mean William Jackson?

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Do you mean William Jackson?

Yes, whoops.

[HigSkin]

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/41847

 

ASHBURN, Va. -- The optimism stemmed from a defensive front considered one of the best in the NFL. It fueled the Washington Football Team's belief it could, once again, have an elite defense after ranking No. 2 in the NFL last season. And, without a top quarterback, that defense would be needed.

 

Through two games, however, the defense's play has produced more questions than optimism after allowing 49 points and 815 yards. The biggest question: What has gone wrong? Washington needs an answer before Sunday when it faces quarterback Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills (1 p.m. ET, Fox).

 

And the schedule doesn't get any softer, with a gauntlet of quarterbacks highlighted by matchups against Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City Chiefs), Aaron Rodgers (Green Bay Packers) and Tom Brady (Tampa Bay Buccaneers) during a four-game stretch that begins in Week 6.

"I expect us to be better," Washington coach Ron Rivera said.

 

The talent hasn't changed, so the defense could turn it around. Washington still has Chase Young and Montez Sweat at end and a deep rotation at tackle.

"There's no reason for it to change," Rivera said of high expectations.

 

What must change are the results. The defense enters Week 3 ranked No. 25 in yards, No. 17 in points allowed and No. 30 on third-down conversions. Last season, the unit ranked No. 2, No. 4 and No. 6, respectively, in those categories.

 

"We just have to do better," defensive tackle Jonathan Allen said after beating the Giants, 30-29 in Week 2. "It's not like the issues are we're just not good enough. We obviously have the talent. We just got to focus on the little things, and honestly, thank God our offense was there to save us time and time again."

 

Backup quarterback Taylor Heinicke, thrust into the lineup when starter Ryan Fitzpatrick suffered a hip injury in Week 1, has been a feel-good story and led two late scoring drives against the Giants. But it's unclear when Fitzpatrick might return and relying on the offense is not the winning recipe for a team built with the defense as its backbone.

 

Rivera has pointed to undisciplined play as a culprit in Washington's early defensive struggles. It's not just the same player or unit that makes the mistakes. Sometimes it's a linebacker not fitting in the right gap, leading to Giants running back Saquon Barkley ripping off a 41-yard run. On a pivotal third-and-16 against the Los Angeles Chargers late in a 20-16 opening-game loss, there were two coverage gaffes -- linebacker Jon Bostic was way too wide and the safety didn't get to the middle of the field -- leading to a wide-open completion over the middle.

 

"You get an opportunity to make a play, make it, but don't try and create it," Rivera said after the Week 1 loss. "Because if you do, that's what's going to happen. You're going to make mistakes."

Rivera doesn't want to be patient, knowing why the issues arise.

 

"I expect it to be fixed now," he said. "It was more of a matter of being disciplined. This defense, the way it's designed, it's about accountability. You have a gap assignment. You have a coverage assignment, you have to do it."

 

Sometimes the linemen lose their gaps, leading to issues. There were poor angles taken against Giants' quarterback Daniel Jones (95 rushing yards) on zone-read keepers, whether it was a lineman (James Smith-Williams) or a safety (Landon Collins). Collins has had some issues in coverage the first two games as well.

 

There's a rookie linebacker, Jamin Davis, who is still learning. At times, for example, he has reacted to motion by the offense based on his assignments at Kentucky -- which is more than what he's supposed to do with Washington. Against the Chargers, when that happened it led to bigger gaps for the running backs.

 

"The first play of the game I got put on my butt," Davis said of the opener. "My alignment was wrong. [I learned] to simply just be where I'm supposed to be with my alignment before the play starts. ... I feel like I'm there now and it's just me playing with my hair on fire."

He was more active in Week 2, which is why Rivera was pleased with his showing, but he's still a work in progress.

 

"You saw some of his quickness and speed in some of the coverage things as well," Rivera said.

The four-man pass rush also has not been as effective as hoped. Washington has three sacks from a four-man rush over two games. Part of the problem is that opponents have used more play-action in the first two games, successfully slowing the rush. Last season, teams passed the ball 7.4 times per game using play-action; in two games this season it's 10 per game. The Giants also chipped or doubled-teamed Sweat and Young at least six times apiece.

 

"I feel like you just got to stay active and you just got to keep going hard," said Young, who has four tackles and no sacks in two games.

Finally, only one team -- Tampa Bay -- has faced more protections of six blockers or more than Washington's 39, which is two fewer than the Buccaneers.

 

That's why Washington has used more five-man, or more, rushes. Last season it used that strategy 11.9 times per game; in two weeks this season it has used it a combined 40 times, according to ESPN Stats & Information.

 

Washington's youth could be a factor. It has 12 defensive players -- starters or key reserves -- who are 26 years old or younger, and seven who are 24 or younger. Young, Davis and cornerback Benjamin St-Juste are 22. That youth has led to excitement for the future, but also some growing pains.

 

"It's about performance, not about potential," defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio said before the season. "There are a lot of teams with potential that don't do a whole lot."

 

Rivera said he's shown his defensive players many examples of what happens when they all fit in the right gaps. The players see the positive results, hammering home his point.

 

"It's all fixable," Rivera said. "If it wasn't fixable, if we weren't good enough I wouldn't be as frustrated as I get at times. This is a good team. When you bring back as many guys as we have you should be getting ready to take another step, and that's what I expect to see from us going forward."

Edited September 22, 2021 by HigSkin

[skinny21]

^ 40 rushes of of 5 or more rushers through 2 games.  I kinda questioned the idea that Del Rio wasn’t blitzing enough - seemed to me I was seeing more than usual, and this sort of confirms that.  I say sort of because I don’t know how many times he used a 5 man front - maybe ‘technically’ a blitz, but not how we usually consider it (that’s my impression anyway).  Of course, there’s the matter of blitzes being effective…