All things defense

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

When this came up in the draft thread last week, I spent way too long looking for examples of seasons where one of the most explosive playmaking and individually dominant QBs won the SB in the last 20 years, and it was bizarrely uncommon.  Pretty much Peyton Manning in 2006 was the only clear cut example of it, with Brees in 2009 and Mahomes in 2019 being on the fringe of that with 17 AV seasons the years they won.

 

What's fascinatingly consistent is that, in the best individual seasons of the careers of all of the great QBs from the last two generations, years where they won MVPs and put up 19+ AV, they almost never won the SB too.  In almost every case they lost in the postseason when they came up against a team with a better defense and/or OL.  And for the QBs who had that happen but also won SBs in other years, those were seasons where they were almost always much more ordinary--13-16 AV years or maybe even less.  This is way too pronounced a pattern not to have a causal connection.  Teams that get dominant individual QB play are flawed in some kind of way that dooms them against more complete teams with lesser QB play.  Something that works for them in the regular season stops working in the postseason.  It kind of reminds me of the NBA when guys who live at the FT line and win scoring titles and MVPs in the regular season run into a wall in the playoffs and get exposed.

 

Defense does still win championships, but it is immensely difficult to build a championship caliber D, they never tend to stay together and play at a championship level for very long, and it is monstrously difficult to reload after a decline in level of play--this is why there are no repeat SB winners in forever.  But if you ever want to win a SB--even if you have a HoF bound QB--you still have to build that defense.

You need a franchise level QB to allow you to be a year in year out contender. Then you just hope one year the stars align, the balls bounce your way, and you can fit enough talented players into a window to win a ring.

 

I think what Rivera is trying to do is build us the way the Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks et al were built. They had the defenses set up first, then went out and got young QBs(Roethlisberger, Flacco/Jackson, Wilson)to elevate into contender status. Chiefs kinda did the same with Mahomes too except they had built up the offense first(since Reid is an offensive coach, those other three teams had more defensive coaches).

 

If you get the QB first you run the risk of ruining his development because you don't have a team around him. I think you'll end up seeing that potentially with Lawrence, Wilson, and maybe Fields(though he does have a defense at least).

[Going Commando]

My question is, what's going on in postseasons where QBs who have been absolutely dominant that year keep getting shut down by a great defenses once they reach the postseason?  Better preparation and planning from the defense?  Not facing enough adversity during the season in order to be properly tempered in the playoffs?  Refs helping them during the year and withdrawing that help in the playoffs?  Why does the stuff that worked so well for them all year suddenly stop working?  This is something that is happening almost every single year and is one of the most pronounced trends of the last 20 seasons and post seasons.  It's to the point where if your QB has a 20 AV season, you can bank money at the start of the playoffs on a bet that their team won't win the Superbowl.

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

My question is, what's going on in postseasons where QBs who have been absolutely dominant that year keep getting shut down by a great defenses once they reach the postseason?  Better preparation and planning from the defense?  Not facing enough adversity during the season in order to be properly tempered in the playoffs?  Refs helping them during the year and withdrawing that help in the playoffs?  Why does the stuff that worked so well for them all year suddenly stop working?  This is something that is happening almost every single year and is one of the most pronounced trends of the last 20 seasons and post seasons.  It's to the point where if your QB has a 20 AV season, you can bank money at the start of the playoffs on a bet that their team won't win the Superbowl.

Combination of:

 

1. Monster year because of feeding on crap competition inflating the QB's actual ability/impact

 

2. Colder weather making it harder to execute

 

3. Coaches have an entire season's worth of games to study film and find possible holes

 

4. Playoff aberrations

[redskinss]

Wouldn't be so frustrating if it wasn't for the expectations.

This defense was supposed to be great and possibly elite but they're bottom 5 horrible. 

Enough to straight up make you give up on a team.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

34 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Wouldn't be so frustrating if it wasn't for the expectations.

This defense was supposed to be great and possibly elite but they're bottom 5 horrible. 

Enough to straight up make you give up on a team.

 

 

Some massive liabilities in that some players only work in certain schemes.  But we don't have 1 scheme that fits everybody.

[Warhead36]

We need to simplify things. Guys are constantly confused in the back end. Play tight press man bump and run. Play Davis more. More blitzes. 

[ExoDus84]

Yeah, we went from a top 3 D last year to a bottom 3 so far this year, using basically the same starters.

 

I have no idea what the hell happened but it's pathetic.

[Rskins91]

Something has to give after this week. I don’t care how good Josh Allen is; that was a roundhouse kick to the face and pantsing. D-line is overhyped and doing jack ****; outside of the some flashes from Jamin, LB’s are just horrible. And the secondary? Just absolutely lost in coverage.

 

After week 1, I said to stay cool. Now? Time to heat things up. I still think there’s way too much raw talent personnel wise for things to be this bad. 

[srtman04]

I feel like we are beyond hope at defense.  What a pitiful performance against the bills today from a supposed NFL defense in WFT......

Edited September 26, 2021 by srtman04

[Burgundy Yoda]

This defense was the only thing I had to hang my hat on and brag about with this team because we all already knew the offense was going to be bad, and they're trash.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[IrepDC]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:47 PM, IrepDC said:

I really like how Jack Del Rio has been handling the media in recent press conferences. As a long time fan of this team, I have seen how our local media loves to stir up dissension and drama, and here on ES, we know how we fans eat up the drama they feed us. JDR is having none of that in his press conferences.

 

He has been asked questions about our defense under achieving as a whole, Chase Young getting heat on social media, the LB group, and even questions about our gameplan for the upcoming week (our media attempting to get coaches to expose gameplans is one of the most asinine forms of sabotage); and he has been handling every question like I would want a coach to handle them.

 

JDR clearly understands that even when some of the criticism is deserved, it's important to correct your players in private and have their backs in public. That builds trust and respect in a locker room. That motivates players to play hard for you. That keeps players accountable to the coaching staff and not the rabid fanbase who drastically changes opinions from week to week. That is what we need.

 

I truly believe our defense is in great hands right now. FYI the #1 defense from last year has been off to a slow start as well. I'm willing to give Del Rio more time to get these guys on the same page and correct the mistakes that we've been seeing. We will have a tough road defensively regardless, with our schedule, but I'm optimistic after listening to how JDR is leading the bunch.

Didn't back up ANY of this up today. I have no clue how and why our defense is playing THIS bad. Even without the weak links, too many guys look lost, there's no chemistry, no communication, no aggression, and the effort isn't even there. It doesn't make sense how bad we are playing.

[Burgundy Yoda]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We need to simplify things. Guys are constantly confused in the back end. Play tight press man bump and run. Play Davis more. More blitzes. 

It's already super vanilla without blitzing. We are getting burned with 7 men in coverage, it's just wild to me how bad they are.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Plus1Hdcp_]

My 2 cents which isn't worth it,

Why did we swap Chase from Right Edge (mostly) and Sweat from Left Edge (mostly)?

Why is Chase out of the line up a bunch? Is there something wrong which we don't know about?

Can we not play a press coverage? It seems like everything is zone.

We all can see a severe lack of pressure and I guess it would make too much sense to send a blitz.

Why can't we just play smash mouth instead of exotic schemes? I contend we should have something that works before we try to get cute. 

[KDawg]

I don’t know how many times I have to say it as to why this D is bad. I’ve said it for years. Literally years.

 

Recently it’s Collins who doesn’t fit. Not particularly his fault, to be honest.

 

But the main reason? Our linebackers. Even if Jamin pans out, and I think he might be solid, we still have a bottom tier LB corp. Bostic is smart but never in the right place. Holcomb is athletic but not aggressive and overthinking. 
 

Until our LBs improve the D will remain weak.

 

Offensively we need QB1 for the long term.

[dyst]

7 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

Yeah, we went from a top 3 D last year to a bottom 3 so far this year, using basically the same starters.

 

I have no idea what the hell happened but it's pathetic.

Losing Kevin Pierre-Louis and Darby must have really hurt (kidding, it’s because we played sucky teams last year).

[Commander PK]

3 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Didn't back up ANY of this up today. I have no clue how and why our defense is playing THIS bad. Even without the weak links, too many guys look lost, there's no chemistry, no communication, no aggression, and the effort isn't even there. It doesn't make sense how bad we are playing.

 

it appears to this lay person that they started believing too much of their own hype.  They forgot you still have to produce on game day.  There is still plenty of time for them to turn it around and have a good season, but obviously changes need to be made.  What they are doing right now isn't working at all.  

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, Painkiller said:

 

it appears to this lay person that they started believing too much of their own hype.  They forgot you still have to produce on game day.  There is still plenty of time for them to turn it around and have a good season, but obviously changes need to be made.  What they are doing right now isn't working at all.  

That sounds about right, but instead of getting humbled and motivated, we seem to be getting frustrated and giving up. Obviously still a long season but I'm no longer a believer. They have to prove they have the willpower to get it together. Starting to look like a bunch of losers to me.

[ggarriso]

9 minutes ago, Plus1Hdcp_ said:

Why is Chase out of the line up a bunch? Is there something wrong which we don't know about?

 

Prob just due to complete and total ineffectiveness; but he def doesnt need OTA's too good for that practice stuff.  Pathetic

 

[dyst]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the players and coaches get mad at fans and media instead of taking ownership.

[wilco_holland]

At least this thread is easy to find because our D is not. I'm waiting for them to come to the field...

[Captain Wiggles]

1 minute ago, dyst said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the players and coaches get mad at fans and media instead of taking ownership.

 

Like Josh Norman a few years back? 🤭

[Warhead36]

Its just remarkable were THIS bad on D. I can understand some regression but were getting EVISCERATED on defense. Its not like were 18th or 21st. Were legit bottom 3. 

[wilco_holland]

I think what did us dirt is that game 1 gave ever team the blue print how to beat this team. Every game is quick short passing a base. 

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know how many times I have to say it as to why this D is bad. I’ve said it for years. Literally years.

 

Recently it’s Collins who doesn’t fit. Not particularly his fault, to be honest.

 

But the main reason? Our linebackers. Even if Jamin pans out, and I think he might be solid, we still have a bottom tier LB corp. Bostic is smart but never in the right place. Holcomb is athletic but not aggressive and overthinking. 
 

Until our LBs improve the D will remain weak.

 

Offensively we need QB1 for the long term.

LBers and Safeties. McCains been bad, Curl hasn't looked great and Collins hs no fit in this D.

 

Fuller has been awful. Awful.

 

But yes, our LBers have been **** for years and I don't know how they didn't attack it in FA. I assume arogense. 

Just now, wilco_holland said:

I think what did us dirt is that game 1 gave ever team the blue print how to beat this team. Every game is quick short passing a base. 

It's obvious that that is a hole and has been, but we have a few issues.

[Warhead36]

Its not just quick passes. Giants were throwing bombs. Quick passes arent what kill us on 3rd and 10+