All things defense

[SkinsGuy]

5 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

For real, people talking about 99 freelancing, is it reminiscent of Arrington?

 

I don't get the impression that Young's potential freelancing is like Arringtons.

 

Arrington was a selfish, "Me" player. He wanted all the limelight here. To be the big fish in a little pond, I believe he once said. Which is why he resented Coach Gibbs returning here and Sean Taylor's arrival. It took the spotlight off of him.

 

Arrington would freelance, desperately trying to get the glory of the big play for himself and he thought he knew better than his coaches. The results would be he would leave huge gaping holes in our defense as he abandoned his assignment seeking that personal glory.

 

Young, OTOH, seems to be...well just being young.  He seems to be trying too hard, trying to help the team too much and, yes, maybe believing a little of his hype.

 

Coaches need to settle Young down, tell him to exploit opportunities when they are there, follow his assignments, and stop trying to be a one man gang.

 

I think Young will be all right. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by SkinsGuy

[NewCliche21]

12 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

I don't get the impression that Young's potential freelancing is like Arringtons.

 

Arrington was a selfish, "Me" player. He wanted all the limelight here. To be the big fish in a little pond, I believe he once said. Which is why he resented Coach Gibbs returning here and Sean Taylor's arrival. It took the spotlight off of him.

 

Arrington would freelance, desperately trying to get the glory of the big play for himself and he thought he knew better than his coaches. The results would be he would leave huge gaping holes in our defense as he abandoned his assignment seeking that personal glory.

 

Young, OTOH, seems to be...well just being young.  He seems to be trying too hard, trying to help the team too much and, yes, maybe believing a little of his hype.

 

Coaches need to settle Young down, tell him to exploit opportunities when they are there, follow his assignments, and stop trying to be a one man gang.

 

I think Young will be all right. 

 

Good comparison, thanks man

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

For real, people talking about 99 freelancing, is it reminiscent of Arrington?

Not nearly as bad, with LeVar it got so bad Gibbs had him coming off the bench. Can't get right, thats not where Young is right now, imo.

[ThomasRoane]

5 hours ago, redskinss said:

I think he's suggesting we use sweat and chase as outside linebackers in the 3/4.

That would put those 4 players in a 3 position rotation on the defensive line.

Montez is so fast and athletic that maybe he could grow into a role that requires covering backs and tight ends but I'm not as confident that chase would.

 

Maybe not a crazy idea but I'm not an x's and o's guy so I have no idea.

 

 

Whether you go 4-3 base or 3-4 base doesn't matter much anymore.  Most teams spend most of their time in some form of a 4-2-5; that's because you have so much 11 personnel.  (1 Back - 1 TE; and that TE is often flexed out or in the slot)  Usually that fifth person is a DB but Buffalo went with 3 safeties instead.  Which is nice if you have 3 athletic Safeties.  Because ideally, you can have three safeties that move all around and all three can run support or cover.  Makes it hard on a QB to determine what to do presnap.  The WFT, unfortunately, have only two.  McCain and Curl.  If they brought up Forrest they could get by with it.  

[Commander -JB-]

Arrington was just flat out overrated with his propensity to whiff on tackles & look the fool.  Definitely not fair to compare Chase Young to THAT.

[Mooka]

6 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

There are several defenses who are supposed to be amongst the best in the league who are not playing well to start the season: WFT, TB, Steelers, KC, Cleve, Tenn....that's not an excuse but maybe some of these teams are still figuring out what they have? 

 

Football is a 3 team game too.

 

TB/KC/Cleveland have offenses that put up points and quickly. The opposing teams have more drives/opportunities and are trying to keep pace. 

 

Steelers.... simply can't run the football. 

 

Tennessee... is a different team when Henry is running like he was in the 2nd half yesterday. 

 

Things start to even out over the course of the season. We were saying the same things about Chase Young last year until he had some big games. 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

I don't get the impression that Young's potential freelancing is like Arringtons.

 

Arrington was a selfish, "Me" player. He wanted all the limelight here. To be the big fish in a little pond, I believe he once said. Which is why he resented Coach Gibbs returning here and Sean Taylor's arrival. It took the spotlight off of him.

 

Arrington would freelance, desperately trying to get the glory of the big play for himself and he thought he knew better than his coaches. The results would be he would leave huge gaping holes in our defense as he abandoned his assignment seeking that personal glory.

 

Young, OTOH, seems to be...well just being young.  He seems to be trying too hard, trying to help the team too much and, yes, maybe believing a little of his hype.

 

Coaches need to settle Young down, tell him to exploit opportunities when they are there, follow his assignments, and stop trying to be a one man gang.

 

I think Young will be all right. 

 

 

 

 

Boy...I remember Marvin Lewis being outwardly furious with Lavar Arrington for his free-lancing....he would accuse Lavar of breaking down the entire defensive scheme by being out of place. I can't see Chase being that type of player with our coaching staff. 

[KDawg]

I don’t get the sense Young is even remotely close to LaVar. If we were going to assign the LaVar label to anyone on the D it is Collins. Hands down.

 

I don’t think he’s doing it selfishly, but I think he’s doing it because he doesn’t trust his teammates and that makes him look pretty bad while also stopping him from doing his own job.

[Koolblue13]

I wonder if there's some decention in the ranks, causing some of these problems. The Vax talk got pretty sharp. Maybe some of the guys don't like Curl taking playing time from Collins and might be blaming the coaching staff for his play or they didn't like Bostic being promoted to captain. Could be some kind of a rift still carrying over from training camp thats keeping everyone from being on the same page. If so, I don't think the long week and better opponent this week will help.

 

Just a theory. 

[IrepDC]

Chase just has to get comfortable utilizing every tool (rush move) on his tool belt, and understand the rhythm of going to those moves throughout a game.

 

I have seen him use his hands before. The rush when he sacked Newton, he got the first punch to the Tackle's inside shoulder then used his other hand to sweep the Tackle's arm off of him. That play was textbook hand usage, but because he is so used to relying on his speed rush, he hasn't used that move in the last two games.

 

Part of the learning curve for super athletic pass rushers is learning to keep track of how the offense is blocking you, and understanding how to counter or set up your moves. 

 

The past two games, Chase has been going to his speed rush 80% of his rushes, and we see how Tackles have adjusted- selling out to run him around the back of the pocket. When Tackles are retreating to stop his speed rush like this, he has to know to counter with a bull rush and/or inside move. The inside move might not be an option if he has contain responsibility, but the bull rush is always an option. This is reminiscent of Tackle's adapting the choke hold to stop Orakpo's power rip move. Hopefully he figures it out quicker than Orakpo did.

 

Once he adds that element to his game, being mindful of what move the Tackle is trying to block, he will waste a lot less energy, and be able to keep Tackles off balanced as they try to figure out how to stop him. 

 

The best example of executing this would be Chandler Jones' week 1 performance. He used a variety of moves in the rhythm of the game that kept the Titans off balance for 4 quarters. Chase is one of few players in the league who can study that tape and actually emulate all of those rush techniques.

 

My concern isn't whether he is able to execute the other moves. He is athletic enough to do any pass rush. He has to learn WHEN to use what technique. That speed rush will still be his most effective move, but it will be more effective when he's rotating and executing different techniques in rhythm with the game. Some of that will come from experience. Some of that will come from being in better game shape.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by IrepDC

[Silvernon]

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wonder if there's some decention in the ranks, causing some of these problems. The Vax talk got pretty sharp. Maybe some of the guys don't like Curl taking playing time from Collins and might be blaming the coaching staff for his play or they didn't like Bostic being promoted to captain. Could be some kind of a rift still carrying over from training camp thats keeping everyone from being on the same page. If so, I don't think the long week and better opponent this week will help.

 

Just a theory. 

I'm not sure it's dissent. 

 

When it came to the vaccinations, it was both a personal plea (I'm vulnerable) and football availability. The rules/limitations and possible impacts were huge incentives to get it done. To continually resist is a bit of a slap in the face to Ron. He can't go back to normal and must wear his mask to protect himself from his players.

 

I do think Landon Collins making a boatload of money and making mistakes doesn't help. Much like Norman here too. Neither seem to be masters of their craft and other players gripe. 

 

Case in point was one of Landon's positive plays:

 

 

 

Notice the rest of the D. Not pumped up at all. 

 

I think the coaches have a lot on their hands:

 

Turner - adapting the playbook w/o Samuel, Heinicke now the QB1.

 

Del Rio - easing in Davis as the Mike, sheltering St Juste, and Chase not playing as expected. Landon already mentioned. 

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

I'm not sure it's dissent. 

 

When it came to the vaccinations, it was both a personal plea (I'm vulnerable) and football availability. The rules/limitations and possible impacts were huge incentives to get it done. To continually resist is a bit of a slap in the face to Ron. He can't go back to normal and must wear his mask to protect himself from his players.

 

I do think Landon Collins making a boatload of money and making mistakes doesn't help. Much like Norman here too. Neither seem to be masters of their craft and other players gripe. 

 

Case in point was one of Landon's positive plays:

 

 

 

Notice the rest of the D. Not pumped up at all. 

 

I think the coaches have a lot on their hands:

 

Turner - adapting the playbook w/o Samuel, Heinicke now the QB1.

 

Del Rio - easing in Davis as the Mike, sheltering St Juste, and Chase not playing as expected. Landon already mentioned. 

"Dissent" ha thanks. Was drawing a total blank. 

 

It's just a guess. We definitely are not playing like a team right now. Something has to change on this team. Almost like Collins needs to get "Tanya'd" by Curl again or something. 

[Gurgeh]

31 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

...

 

I do think Landon Collins making a boatload of money and making mistakes doesn't help. Much like Norman here too. Neither seem to be masters of their craft and other players gripe. 

 

Case in point was one of Landon's positive plays:

...

 

Notice the rest of the D. Not pumped up at all. 

 

I think the coaches have a lot on their hands:

 

Turner - adapting the playbook w/o Samuel, Heinicke now the QB1.

 

Del Rio - easing in Davis as the Mike, sheltering St Juste, and Chase not playing as expected. Landon already mentioned. 

 

We probably made one or two too many changes in the secondary: replacing Darby with Jackson III, playing Collins more than Curl, changing Fuller's role, and adding St Juste. I think Jackson is better than Darby and St Juste will be worth the short term pain, but the other adjustments and Collins play mean the unit just hasn't been in sync. It could also be a product of having less preseason practice than in the past, and a short week between games to make changes.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

I probably wouldn't have been too pumped about a 5 yard run either.

[Silvernon]

1 minute ago, Gurgeh said:

 

We probably made one or two too many changes in the secondary: replacing Darby with Jackson III, playing Collins more than Curl, changing Fuller's role, and adding St Juste. I think Jackson is better than Darby and St Juste will be worth the short term pain, but the other adjustments and Collins play mean the unit just hasn't been in sync. It could also be a product of having less preseason practice than in the past, and a short week between games to make changes.

 

 

Jackson is doing fine, but isn't getting a lot of help so far. The team will have to continue pushing help toward the middle and St Juste, and so there will be some mixed results at first. 

 

The team now has a FS, and that's a big deal. Huge improvement game-to-game and expecting another jump for McCain. 

 

Collins will have his leash shortened as the week's go by. They have his replacement ready now, and Hudson should be ready for the Buffalo Nickel spot soon enough to force the issue.

 

It does feel like they are being cautious with the youth.

[Warhead36]

Much of the issues are resolved I think if we just go with McCain/Curl at Safety, move Fuller to slot full time, and go with Holcomb/Davis as our LBs and play Nickel as our primary formation.

[Silvernon]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Much of the issues are resolved I think if we just go with McCain/Curl at Safety, move Fuller to slot full time, and go with Holcomb/Davis as our LBs and play Nickel as our primary formation.

Fuller was at 97%

St Juste for 75%

 

So, Fuller was the nickel for 75% of snaps. 

 

Collins 75%

Curl 74%

McCain 54%

 

Plenty of 5 and 6 DBs on the field in this defense. In the next few weeks, we'll see Collins lose some 10-15% of snaps to Curl/St Juste and 10-15% to McCain. 

 

It does appear that about half Landon's snaps are as an 'additional LB', so it may depend on Jamin Davis' progress too. 

[Riggo-toni]

Micah Parsons, forced to switch from LB to DE, got more pressure and sacks on Justin Herbert than Sweat and Young combined.

[wit33]

Just a heads up, McCain was known to miss assignments (source, buddy who hasn’t missed a game in 20 years) and was let go by Dolphins. 

[Warhead36]

25 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Micah Parsons, forced to switch from LB to DE, got more pressure and sacks on Justin Herbert than Sweat and Young combined.

Yeah that was frustrating to watch. He looked real good. He's a more natural Edge than 4-3 OLB.

[Koolblue13]

Both their DEs were out for the Cowboys. They started Parsons against Slater and he didn't do squat, until they moved him to the other side and he matched up on their back up RT.

[HigSkin]

Listening to JP Finlay and BMitch out at the park today and JP said when asking RR about who he's more concerned with, Heinicke or the defense and he said defense.  I'm simplifying but JP sounded like he was eluding to the D being full of themselves.  Maybe being 9 point dogs this weekend will wake them up.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Listening to JP Finlay and BMitch out at the park today and JP said when asking RR about who he's more concerned with, Heinicke or the defense and he said defense.  I'm simplifying but JP sounded like he was eluding to the D being full of themselves.  Maybe being 9 point dogs this weekend will wake them up.

Give me things we all know for $500, Alex. (It’s still Alex to me.)

[NoVaSkins21]

Listed to Rivera on the Junkies this morning and he talked about the mistakes that were made on the Jones and Slayton TDs that weren't by the players on defense, but didn't specifically mention anyone by name.  IMO, both were on Collins. I think these mistakes are fixable and this shouldn't be a season long problem, but let's what happens.  

[lavar1156]

I've noticed Bostic is a pretty effective blitzer. I don't know why we don't utilize him in that role more often.