All things defense

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’m not surprised. JDR is a dip****. And I’m not usually a guy to just bash on every coach, but he is actually a verifiable idiot.

[Ball Security]

Listening to Finlay and Mitchell. The max a good point about how Ron said he was much more involved in the defense because EB’s handling the offense.

[Anselmheifer]

I wonder how much better a Greg Williams would have the defense playing immediately. We are awful. The fact that we aren’t at least average is, in my eyes, all coaching. 

[SkinsFTW]

22 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wonder how much better a Greg Williams would have the defense playing immediately. We are awful. The fact that we aren’t at least average is, in my eyes, all coaching. 

 

Well when Wade Phillips took over Del Rios defense in Denver they were the #1 defense in the league, #4 in points against in 2015. Del Rios the year before was 16th in points and 22nd the previous year. And that was with Peyton Manning dropping off a cliff and throwing more Ints than TD's in his last season when Kubiak and Phillips coached there and won the SB.  They went from the #2 offense to the #19 offense but the defense improved. Manning threw 9TDs and 17 Picks. That had to have made it more difficult on the defense compared to his previous elite performance. That was why I laughed when they hired not only Ron Rivera who had just been fired but on top of it Del Rio who had just been fired from coaching the Raiders. The Raiders defense was never good with Del Rio as head coach and the Panthers defense was 31st in points the year Rivera was fired. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

Remember the two consecutive years under Gruden when we had historically bad defense and then the next year had a defense so bad it broke their own records of failure once again? 

 

This defense feels equally wretched as those defenses. Obviously it's early yet but they are looking record breaking bad. Which is hard to fathom but feels on the table as a possibility. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX

[Daniel.redskins]

In my opinion the biggest weakness of this team is not having a true middle linebacker.  The MLB is the QB on defense.  The d-line is good though a bit overrated.  The secondary is alright (except Forbes who is truly awful). I just cannot understand for the life of me that Ron and Jack have neglected the most important position on defense. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Daniel.redskins

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Remember the two consecutive years under Gruden when we had historically bad defense and then the next year had a defense so bad it broke their own records of failure once again? 

 

This defense feels equally wretched as those defenses. Obviously it's early yet but they are looking record breaking bad. Which is hard to fathom but feels on the table as a possibility. 

Those Gruden defenses were majorly talent deficient. 

[wit33]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Those Gruden defenses were majorly talent deficient. 

and….. Slooooooooooow!

 

Deplorable effort by the defense. The scheme and exactly who’s responsible gets into the weeds a bit for me; look forward to hearing from some people in the know.
 

My expectations coming into the season were to overwhelm opponent run games and consistently attack the QB, not happening at the rate required. We’ve seen some of this in previous couple seasons. Brutal. 

 

 

[NoVaSkins21]

This defense is historically bad.  This rivals Dal@ss from a few years back and they had to get Dan Quinn to get better and be the defense they are now.  Del Rio is like Rivera and doesn't have a clue about what to do.

Edited October 7, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[Skinsinparadise]

But let’s zoom in on the defense. The unit that was expected to lead this team got humiliated again, this time by a below-average offense at home on national television. Jack Del Rio has been a defensive coordinator for 119 career games, and only three times has one of his units allowed more points than Washington did Thursday.

The Commanders rank 31st in the league in average defensive points allowed per game (29.2), ahead of only the Denver Broncos (37.5), who earlier this year gave up a near-record 70 points in one contest.

 

The collapse is somewhat surprising. The unit has bright individual talents — including six first-round picks — and is in the fourth year of Del Rio’s system. Del Rio tweaked the scheme last season, which helped tighten coverage, and the secondary is full of veterans. Other than first-round cornerback Emmanuel Forbes Jr., who was benched Thursday, the defense uses no rookies.

 

“[Benching] Forbes was kind of the indicator that we can’t go through this anymore,” Rivera said Friday. “Now’s the time.”

This past offseason, Del Rio’s message to his players, other than to start fast, was to generate more takeaways. It’s hard not to wonder whether the crushing mistakes from the Bears game, such as defenders missing tackles because they were going for the ball or getting burned when trying to jump routes, were unintended side effects of that point of emphasis.

 

 

Has the secondary, full of seemingly smart and capable players, allowed the focus on turnovers to make the unit overly aggressive?

“It could be,” Rivera said. “I mean, that’s a guess right there. … When you’re trying to jump routes, when you’re trying to make plays, you’re trying to do more than you need to, those unfortunate things are going to happen.”

During his news conference, when discussing explosive plays, Rivera said, “It’s not about going after the ball as much as it’s securing the tackle.”

After the game, the locker room was stunned and mostly silent. Defenders ran through broken plays with one another. They also defended Del Rio, putting the blame on themselves.

 

“It’s nothing on Del Rio. He made good calls today,” defensive end Chase Young said, adding, “It’s on us as players. [We’ve] just got to start faster and hold each other accountable.”

“We played terrible,” safety Darrick Forrest said. “We just got to be better.”

“We look at ourselves like a top-five defense in the league,” safety Kam Curl said. “We’re not playing like that right now, so we’re just looking for a solution to change that.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/06/del-rio-commanders-defense-struggling/

[DWinzit]

Sure sounds like the defensive players still believe in JDR. Taking the blame for him is admirable and granted, they didn't play well but BS. He didn't put the players in the right place to win most of the time. He called a bad game and did in the Buffalo game where he should have learned from and been able to adjust quickly.

 

The other interesting thing is EB seems to be getting better at calling plays but might be losing some of his players. He has a bad OL and needs to somehow protect Howell better. That is on his play calling and influence in personnel this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Sure sounds like the defensive players still believe in JDR. Taking the blame for him is admirable and granted, they didn't play well but BS. He didn't put the players in the right place to win most of the time. He called a bad game and did in the Buffalo game where he should have learned from and been able to adjust quickly.

 

The other interesting thing is EB seems to be getting better at calling plays but might be losing some of his players. He has a bad OL and needs to somehow protect Howell better. That is on his play calling and influence in personnel this year.

 

I've heard several beat guys say JDR is beloved in that locker room.  Also that he's more involved in overall running the whole team behind the scenes than Rivera.  It's part of the reason why I don't think Rivera would fire JDR -- considering Rivera would likely have to take over that unit and considering Rivera if anything I gather prefers JDR take things off his plate -- let alone Rivera desiring to put a lot more on his own plate.

 

I get the vibe that Ron is more into the GM-personnel building side of the job than coaching.  As for coaching he comes off totally hands off.  Doesn't say a word to anyone on the sidelines during the game.  Heck apparently he didn't even say a word to the players during halftime last Thursday.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've heard several beat guys say JDR is beloved in that locker room.  Also that he's more involved in overall running the whole team behind the scenes than Rivera.  It's part of the reason why I don't think Rivera would fire JDR -- considering Rivera would likely have to take over that unit and considering Rivera if anything I gather prefers JDR take things off his plate -- let alone Rivera desiring to put a lot more on his own plate.

WOW, I had not heard that. If true seriously....what is Ron doing? EB took over the offense and JDR has the defense. @Koolblue13has been saying for a year Ron has been in retirement mode and this would prove that. Maybe to shake the players up they should fire Ron earlier rather than later

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

WOW, I had not heard that. If true seriously....what is Ron doing? EB took over the offense and JDR has the defense. @Koolblue13has been saying for a year Ron has been in retirement mode and this would prove that. Maybe to shake the players up they should fire Ron earlier rather than later

 

Yah Sheehan in particular talked about for a coiuple of years now that he's heard that Del Rio is the dude behind the scenes, not just with the defense but overall running the team.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yah Sheehan in particular talked about for a coiuple of years now that he's heard that Del Rio is the dude behind the scenes, not just with the defense but overall running the team.

Then Ron doesn't deserve to have his name on this team anymore, he has indeed become a farce

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Then Ron doesn't deserve to have his name on this team anymore, he has indeed become a farce

 

Sort of a hands off CEO type is the vibe I get.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sort of a hands off CEO type is the vibe I get.

Which is fine if you’re winning. But we are not. Obviously. 😆

 

I don’t give a **** if JDR is beloved in the locker room or not. The performance of his unit is the most embarrassing in recent memory compared to expectations. 
 

Their effort level would suggest they don’t love anything football related. Especially contact. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:01 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Those Gruden defenses were majorly talent deficient. 

talent deficiencies + Jim Haslett/Joe Barry/Greg Manusky = abomination before God. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

talent deficiencies + Jim Haslett/Joe Barry/Greg Manusky = abomination before God. 

All true, what’s sad though is the current defense with all its talent is worse.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yah Sheehan in particular talked about for a coiuple of years now that he's heard that Del Rio is the dude behind the scenes, not just with the defense but overall running the team.

I think a lot of the “running the team” duties have transferred to EB.  He seemingly sets the practice schedule, daily routine, etc. etc. etc.  

 

The problem with firing Jack, which I’d love for “failure to perform the functions of your job” reasons, is who steps in?  Ron hasn’t coordinated a defense since he was DC in San Diego 15 years ago. I’m not sure even if he wanted to he would be remotely good at it at this point.  Maybe he has to anyway, because it’s his mess to clean up, but I’m not sure he’s truly capable of doing it.  I don’t believe any of the other defensive staff have ever done it.

 

Moving to the next guy would be fine, beloved coach or not,  but who’s the replacement?  There doesn’t seem to be a that “on the cusp” young position coach ready to take the step on the staff.  
 

Harris might have been that guy but he’s not here anymore. 
 

Jack’s probably just going to have to clean up his own mess.  Which isn’t ideal but I’m honestly not sure what the alternative is.  
 

Which stinks.  But here we are.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

All true, what’s sad though is the current defense with all its talent is worse.

The current defense is also an abomination before God.

 

No argument.  
 

I just don’t know the short term fix. 
 

Long term: they need to blow the whole defense up, players and coaches, and start over.  They’ve had 4-6 years with this core and it isn’t working.  There isn’t a bandaid solution.  
 

Allen and Payne are not tradable next year due to salary cap reasons.  Fine, keep them.  But it’s time to move on from literally everybody else and start fresh.  The baby might go out with the bath water for a guy or two, but it doesn’t matter.  

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Moving to the next guy would be fine, beloved coach or not,  but who’s the replacement?  There doesn’t seem to be a that “on the cusp” young position coach ready to take the step on the staff.  

 

There isn't.  But Steve Russ or Jeff Zgonina would probably be the best options.  Zgonina is our best position coach, but he has minimal experience.  Russ is the most senior member and has some DC experience from his days as a college coach.  It's a major indictment of the defensive staff that they don't really have any credible interim options.  That's just not acceptable for an NFL team.  We're not a group of five college program, we're supposed to have the finest assistant coaches in the sport.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think a lot of the “running the team” duties have transferred to EB.  He seemingly sets the practice schedule, daily routine, etc. etc. etc.  

 

The problem with firing Jack, which I’d love for “failure to perform the functions of your job” reasons, is who steps in?  Ron hasn’t coordinated a defense since he was DC in San Diego 15 years ago. I’m not sure even if he wanted to he would be remotely good at it at this point.  Maybe he has to anyway, because it’s his mess to clean up, but I’m not sure he’s truly capable of doing it.  I don’t believe any of the other defensive staff have ever done it.

 

Moving to the next guy would be fine, beloved coach or not,  but who’s the replacement?  There doesn’t seem to be a that “on the cusp” young position coach ready to take the step on the staff.  
 

Harris might have been that guy but he’s not here anymore. 
 

Jack’s probably just going to have to clean up his own mess.  Which isn’t ideal but I’m honestly not sure what the alternative is.  
 

Which stinks.  But here we are.  

 

I get the vibe that Del Rio 100% in charge of the defense and Bieineimy of the offense.  Rivera's unintentionally dig at Bieniemy during camp when he referenced Bieniemy didn't have Del Rio's head coaching experience -- might have telling to some extent.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Ron doesn’t look like a guy, nor gives off any vibes that he’s micro managing his coordinators.  He barely has a pulse on the sideline and lacks a lot of detail when publicly speaking.  
 

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ron doesn’t look like a guy, nor gives off any vibes that he’s micro managing his coordinators.  He barely has a pulse on the sideline and lacks a lot of detail when publicly speaking.  
 

I think you had it at "He barely has a pulse". He is figure head only based on what little I am seeing and reading.