Next Day Thread: WFT vs. Giants

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

With the number 2 pick, you're expecting a Reggie White.  With the hype machine, you're expecting the guy to make Reggie White look typical.

I'm a MASSIVE Young fan, but I've been hugely disappointed with just how poorly he's been playing.  Face of the franchise at this point but certainly not earning it.

 

Yeah, I want him to be an All Pro SO BADLY, but he's looked, from a civilian perspective, the worst on the line.  I hate saying that.

Regarding the hype machine, he was the one touting it. With him and Sweat breaking the duo sack record.

I'm fine with guys having high standards. I'm even fine with them bragging about it.

 

Just back it up on the field.

 

They want to break the record, good, but they'll have one more game to do it, so there's still that against them as it'll help them.

But they better level up their game if they want to have a decent shot at the record. Otherwise, they'll join the long list of bragging guys that doesn't show on the field.

 

That being said, I think Chase is smart enough to know that he hasn't done enough, and he's gonna put on the work needed to live up his own standards. So I'm confident D will find his cruise soon.

 

Perhaps the most important saying after the game camed from Jonathan Allen: "Offense bailed us out time and time again". For some reason, I believe he's our actual London Fletcher. He doesn't do much noise, but he's doing the job and rarely makes much mistake. He speaks, they listen.

[CapsSkins]

54 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Regarding the hype machine, he was the one touting it. With him and Sweat breaking the duo sack record.

I'm fine with guys having high standards. I'm even fine with them bragging about it.

 

Just back it up on the field.

 

They want to break the record, good, but they'll have one more game to do it, so there's still that against them as it'll help them.

But they better level up their game if they want to have a decent shot at the record. Otherwise, they'll join the long list of bragging guys that doesn't show on the field.

 

That being said, I think Chase is smart enough to know that he hasn't done enough, and he's gonna put on the work needed to live up his own standards. So I'm confident D will find his cruise soon.

 

Perhaps the most important saying after the game camed from Jonathan Allen: "Offense bailed us out time and time again". For some reason, I believe he's our actual London Fletcher. He doesn't do much noise, but he's doing the job and rarely makes much mistake. He speaks, they listen.

JA93 has also been here the longest on the D and is locked up for years to come. He’s definitely that Fletcher-type leader IMO, you nailed it.

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

JA93 has also been here the longest on the D and is locked up for years to come. He’s definitely that Fletcher-type leader IMO, you nailed it.

Hes also the one fans wanted to trade or let walk so settle could shine, which is s great reminder that us fans are idiots.

[Thinking Skins]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To play off of that point,  Paulsen did a nice job (and he leans on the cynical side typically) showcasing Scott's play calling from the Giants game. How he used 13 personnel to set up a play for Terry.  How he set the Giants up on a previous play to make the McKissic wheel route play work, etc.   Scott does have some fans out there.   He even on occasion gets mentioned as a dark horse candidate for HC elsewhere.

I'm going to show how biased I am.  I like Turner because he's my age,  went to school in the area and came back here to work.  It's just easy to root for that

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for the we need to face reality stuff -- that's opinion.  It's cool to see it that way but personally I got no concern about Chase.  If we are in game 8 and I see no production, I'll echo the concern.

 

I am one of the people here who fell in love with his play watching his college games.  I don't think he's overhyped-overrrated.   I am 10 out of 10 as for loving his potential.  So I am a tough sell as to worrying about him this early.

 

I recall someone on the Chase thread last year played down him being double teamed, saying that wasn't happening.  At the time I had no idea, I am not zeroing in on any one player while watching games to notice trends.  So I sat down one night and watched every Chase play.  And If I recall just short of 20 snaps where he was double teamed.  I posted all those clips on the thread.

 

Shawn Springs suggests he's being double teamed and others not so much and they should make plays and take advantage of Chase's double teams.  You got me if he's right.  I charted just a few plays in the SD game and saw a couple where Chase was double teamed and Sweat wasn't.  But I didn't go deep in that game where I studied Chase.  I'll get to it.  Not saying Chase shouldn't beat double teams or chips but its a bit harder to do that than have a one on one matchup.   And who knows maybe Chase isn't being double teamed much, I'll get to it and see.

 

But my overall point is I think Chase will be fine regardless.  And if I am wrong, I'll own it. 😀

 

I watch Chase on most defensive snaps. I didn't see a whole lot of double teams on Sunday. On one play he was coming from the left side, was blocked fell down, stood up and fell down again. I'm not sure if that was against the injured starter or the backup but either way, well...

 

Again I'm in the tank for Chase as well but at this point in his career he should be showing more.

[bh32]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I watch Chase on most defensive snaps. I didn't see a whole lot of double teams on Sunday. On one play he was coming from the left side, was blocked fell down, stood up and fell down again. I'm not sure if that was against the injured starter or the backup but either way, well...

 

Again I'm in the tank for Chase as well but at this point in his career he should be showing more.

Yeah he's not playing anywhere near what a #2 overall pick should be playing at..I saw him multiple times engage a OL and just stand there doing nothing

[dyst]

Error

Edited September 19, 2021 by dyst

[Thinking Skins]

The thing about Chase is that he has the ability to take over a game. We haven't seen it yet this year but I have a feeling there will be a few moments where his unstoppable nature will take over and will us to wins. 

 

Similar to how I felt about Curtis Samuel, I wonder if this is just an early in the season thing where he's not in game shape yet.  I've seen him taking himself out of games so far. And part of me is wondering if his over dependence on the speed move is because he's setting stuff up for later. We'll see. 

 

What's frustrated me the most is the amount of zone,   2 gap, and Collins playing. Maybe we'll have to get Rivera to go into JDRs office again and say to do to this way. We'll see. 

[Warhead36]

Young will have a monster 3+ sack game at some point and we'll all laugh at this early two game aberration. I still believe in his talent. He's not performing yet but he'll get there.

[JSSkinz]

Its still early in the season so a lot can happen but what scares me most about this season and the franchise going forward is if Chase turns out to just be just good and not elite or generational.

 

We really needed that kind of player on this team and watching him in these first two games has been shocking.

 

I hope he figures it out because the future of this defense hinges on it.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Young will have a monster 3+ sack game at some point and we'll all laugh at this early two game aberration. I still believe in his talent. He's not performing yet but he'll get there.

I think the thing about having this DL and running this scheme is that they're all competing and so Allen has a dominant game at the cost of Young doing as good.  The good thing is that if there is a hole in the line, one of those guys can have a big day. 

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think the thing about having this DL and running this scheme is that they're all competing and so Allen has a dominant game at the cost of Young doing as good.  The good thing is that if there is a hole in the line, one of those guys can have a big day. 

If Young getting legit double teamed is opening things up for others and as a result the D is playing like a top 3-5 unit, nobody will pay much mind, because we'd still see the impact.

 

But he's not. He's being blocked 1 on 1. Often by TIGHT ENDS. And the D as a whole stinks right now.

 

Like I said, I expect him and the D to turn things around eventually. But....they also might not.

[Thinking Skins]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If Young getting legit double teamed is opening things up for others and as a result the D is playing like a top 3-5 unit, nobody will pay much mind, because we'd still see the impact.

 

But he's not. He's being blocked 1 on 1. Often by TIGHT ENDS. And the D as a whole stinks right now.

 

Like I said, I expect him and the D to turn things around eventually. But....they also might not.

That's one way of looking at it. But I'm thinking about two of his matchups, against the LT that dominated him in college and against one of the top rookie LTs in the league last year. So it's tough to just say he'll dominate every game. Maybe the TEs thing is a bad look but it happens. I'm just looking for it to improve

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's one way of looking at it. But I'm thinking about two of his matchups, against the LT that dominated him in college and against one of the top rookie LTs in the league last year. So it's tough to just say he'll dominate every game. Maybe the TEs thing is a bad look but it happens. I'm just looking for it to improve

He also went up against a backup RT and did nothing of note. 
 

To another poster’s point: even if he has a major bounce back game we aren’t going to look silly for saying he isn’t getting the job done right now. The idea is that we all want him to right the ship.

 

He HAS to start emphasizing using his hands with his rush moves on a regular basis as well as getting a bit lower and using bend to get around corners. He tries to run around or bull rush on most occasions and he has been showing slow hand speed.

 

Del Rio also has to help him by making changes to get our man coverage personnel in a better place to limit how easy it is for team’s to throw quick. 

[London Kev]

7 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think the thing about having this DL and running this scheme is that they're all competing and so Allen has a dominant game at the cost of Young doing as good.  The good thing is that if there is a hole in the line, one of those guys can have a big day. 

 

Yeah, I agree with this.

 

Although I have been a bit disappointed with Young specifically, the D-Line in general didn't have a bad game. We got four sacks (three by the DL) and eight TFL (six by the DL). They really stood firm after the interception and held the giants to just a FG, where a TD would have been game over.

 

They did seem to bite on the read option all day long (Sweat in particular), but when it's well executed it's a hard play to diagnose so I'm not going to get on their case too much for that.

 

To paraphrase Jay-Z; we got defensive problems, but the D-Line ain't one.

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

He also went up against a backup RT and did nothing of note. 
 

To another poster’s point: even if he has a major bounce back game we aren’t going to look silly for saying he isn’t getting the job done right now. The idea is that we all want him to right the ship.

 

He HAS to start emphasizing using his hands with his rush moves on a regular basis as well as getting a bit lower and using bend to get around corners. He tries to run around or bull rush on most occasions and he has been showing slow hand speed.

 

Del Rio also has to help him by making changes to get our man coverage personnel in a better place to limit how easy it is for team’s to throw quick. 

I'm hopeful this will get sorted out during this nice 10 day stretch between games.

 

Is the solution to play more press coverage to disrupt the quick passing routes? I thought we had brought in Jackson and drafted St Juste specifically for their ability to play press coverage, but we don't seem to be utilizing that skill set much.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Rex Tomb

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

He also went up against a backup RT and did nothing of note. 
 

But why was that RT a backup? We saw Lucas come in last year and play really well. We've seen other backup tackles have good games against some good edge guys.  It happens. Not being dismissive but I'm also not as worried. I'm more worried that we're paying and playing Collins so much, that we're playing Bostic,  and that we're playing Fuller 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But why was that RT a backup? We saw Lucas come in last year and play really well. We've seen other backup tackles have good games against some good edge guys.  It happens. Not being dismissive but I'm also not as worried. I'm more worried that we're paying and playing Collins so much, that we're playing Bostic,  and that we're playing Fuller 

Chase Young is supposed to be elite. Elite guys beat backups. And starters.

[Darrell Green Fan]

11 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Young will have a monster 3+ sack game at some point and we'll all laugh at this early two game aberration. I still believe in his talent. He's not performing yet but he'll get there.

 

You may be right, we should all expect a breakout game. But even if it's next week a generational talent can't show up 1 out of every 3 games.  

[Ghost of]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:52 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Just to piggyback off of a point @Jumbomade which is Kyle Shanahan and McVay were ripped in different threads when they were here for being over their heads and not good at their jobs in real time when they were here.  Both considered now by most as maybe two of the top 3 playcallers in the league and are lionized here now that they are gone but weren't appreciated that much when they were here.  Though from what i recall people ended up backing off McVay towards the end of his tenure but not so much Kyle.  And he said Scott Turner seems to have some respect elsewhere.

 

 

They may have been ripped in threads in a gameday or postgame situation where people are heated or whining about a loss or lack of performance but you can count me as one of those people who thought, if what people said about how brilliant McVay was (and that he was not just smart but a pretty good leader), that he should have been hired after we fired Gruden long before he actually was. I'd have been fine, also, if we hired Shanahan and let his dad move on to retirement.  I disagree that because some people were heated or were wrong that it means the "fanbase" was wrong in some general way when people like me were so disheartened by Gruden that they eventually stopped watching football altogether (well that's not entirely true, but it didn't help.)

[Darrell Green Fan]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Chase Young is supposed to be elite. Elite guys beat backups. And starters.

 

And double teams.  

[KDawg]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

And double teams.  

Of which he’s not seeing as many as people say he is.

[FootballZombie]

The emergence of Seals-J helping in all phases and not just as a receiving target is really buying us some serious time with Reyes. No rush to really force him out there until he is ready.

 

RSJ has been out there throwing blocks and playing STs. Good stuff.

[Voice_of_Reason]

23 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

a minor note of interest---there was extensive negativity about turner in the game thread (of course a lot of posters in the day said sean m and kyle s were bad oc's too---it's a thing we do) but most of the talking heads---inc the 'good' ones---are actually noting both oc's performances and praising both 

 

as with other things, only time will truly tell

 

 

From what I can tell, the negativity came from 2 directions:

 

1. The "Run the Ball, Run the Ball, and then Run it some more" crowd who won't be happy until we eliminate the forward pass from the playbook

2. The "every play that didn't work is a bad play call" crowd.

 

There were a few things to quibble with, but overall, I think Scott called a great game.

 

[NickyJ]

Are DEs immune to sophomore slumps? Yeah, yeah, #2 overall, has to be perfect every game and 2 off games is the end of the world. But is it absurd for a DE to have a sophomore slump?