YahooSports.com: Ron Rivera blasts 'f***ing a**holes' spreading vaccine misinformation: 'Leading people to die'

[Koolblue13]

36 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

If it prevented serious illness 20% of those hospitalized would not be vaccinated. It seems to lessen the number of people who get seriously ill. But does not prevent it. 

No. If it didn't prevent it, 70% of the people hospitalized would be vaccinated, but it prevented it for 50% of them.

 

Nobody thinks it's 100% immunity. I posted an article explaining it on the previous page.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I never once said the vaccine doesnt work. I simply said it doesnt appear to prevent hospitalizations at the rate we are being told. This hospital has made that public knowledge. I wish we could get other data made public. Such as how effective natural immunity is at this point. Or the demographics of those hospitalized. It could be that all of them are over 60 with preexisting conditions. We just dont know. What we do know for certain is that in Winchester 20% of the hospitalized covid patients are fully vaccinated. And I am not an antivaxer. I was one of the first in my area to get the vaccine. 

 

You're basing this hypothesis on one number from one hospital when we have a huge amount of large scale data that indicate that the vaccine does appear to be extremely effective at preventing serious illness.

 

This is a slightly larger version of "I know a vaccinated guy who got really sick, therefore I doubt all the data that we have about how effective the vaccine is."

[tshile]

If it didn’t have an impact the % vaccinated and % unvaccinated that are at each state of “seriousness” on the illness scale, should roughly reflect the % of each group in the community the hospital serves. Although based on what we know you’d have to break that down into demographics as well as which variant (and degree of illness) to get really into it (certain demos are more vulnerable, certain variants are more contagious/harmful, etc. ) you can’t just go throwing around numbers without any nuance as to what it actually means. 
 

to measure impact, you would look at how they differ. 
 

But as has been explained “hospitalizations” doesn’t mean anything. A hospitalization means you were admitted. If you were put on a ventilator in the icu, you are still a hospitalization. If you are released 20 minutes later and told to drink fluids and call your doctor if it gets worse, you are still a hospitalization. 
 

being admitted to the hospital = hospitalization. 
 

it means nothing about why, or how serious your illness is, or how long you were there. 
 

we do have statistics that do mean something:

- icu occupancy/available beds

- nurse-patient ratios

- patient acuity

- ED boarding status

- number of ventilators available

- whether a hospital is currently in a redirecting status or not

 

and even those don’t tell the whole picture. You’d need some community statistics and someone to speak to it

 

(ie: are you boarding in the ED because 2 buses filled with kids collided? Or because there’s a covid outbreak. )

 

you guys are throwing around an awful lot of numbers and “facts” you don’t seem to actually understand. 
 

im not trying to be a jerk - I’m just trying to explain this. 
 

if you don’t have a firm grip on how hospitals operate, report numbers and what they mean, or how to analyze statistics and data modeling you should probably chill out on telling others what’s going on (much less arguing about it with people that actually do understand it)

 

and yeah, running around telling people things that aren’t true, for which you have no data to back up, is spreading misinformation. 
 

if you don’t like being told you’re spreading misinformation, my suggestion is to stop spreading misinformation. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by tshile

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

if you don’t like being told you’re spreading misinformation, my suggestion is to stop spreading misinformation. 

Facts

[tshile]

Specific to the article:

props to rivera

 

if more people in positions of influence took such an attitude, and was so direct, misinformation would not be such a terrible issue

 

[Xameil]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

No. If it didn't prevent it, 70% of the people hospitalized would be vaccinated, but it prevented it for 50% of them.

 

You had to know this was coming...

[CommDownMan]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-guidance-management-patients.html

• Mild to moderate (mild symptoms up to mild pneumonia): 81%
• Severe (dyspnea, hypoxia, or more than 50% lung involvement on imaging): 14%
• Critical (respiratory failure, shock, or multiorgan system dysfunction): 5%

My addition:

Going the the hospital doesn't mean the same thing for every patient.  It doesn't consider age or per-existing conditions.

 

If the 20% vaccinated are in the mild to moderate category than the vaccine still prevents more severe cases of the disease.  The general argument is vaccines prevent the most severe cases.  Being hospitalized at 65 and having mild pneumonia is still serious to that person, so they head to the hospital.  Doesn't mean they have organ failure or need ventilators.  There is still a difference.

[TheShredder]

For high integrity factual statistical evaluations at the Practioner Level, let me share a channel you should monitor.

Dr. Campbell is highly recommended: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB2TExg3QIBupFtBDxg

 

ZDoggMD has the best aligned evaluation that I subscribe to:

 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, tshile said:

Specific to the article:

props to rivera

 

if more people in positions of influence took such an attitude, and was so direct, misinformation would not be such a terrible issue

 

 

Definitely. And I have to assume Ron also knew full well that his interview remarks would be seen/heard by his players. A smart way to basically tell those who refused to get vaccinated that they're being ignorant and selfish assholes without directly calling them out in front of the team or in media.

 

Sounds like it might have worked since the team is reportedly up to 90%+ now...a big increase from the 60% a month or so ago.

[Darrell Green Fan]

49 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I never once said the vaccine doesnt work. I simply said it doesnt appear to prevent hospitalizations at the rate we are being told. This hospital has made that public knowledge. I wish we could get other data made public. Such as how effective natural immunity is at this point. Or the demographics of those hospitalized. It could be that all of them are over 60 with preexisting conditions. We just dont know. What we do know for certain is that in Winchester 20% of the hospitalized covid patients are fully vaccinated. And I am not an antivaxer. I was one of the first in my area to get the vaccine. 

 

I think this is a fair response.  He never said the vax didn't work, he was simply pointing out that the commonly held belief that it will keep you out of the hospital is off base a bit.  This is not the same as the claim by some here that the vaccine does not work, which of course is idiotic.    

[redskinss]

The refs are really letting you guys play today.

Surprised there hasn't been a whistle. 

[tshile]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I think this is a fair response.  He never said the vax didn't work, he was simply pointing out that the commonly held belief that it will keep you out of the hospital is off base a bit.  This is not the same as the claim by some here that the vaccine does not work, which of course is idiotic.    

It is not off base. 
 

this has been explained multiple times by multiple people. 
 

refuting overwhelming data, publicly available, about the vaccines efficacy using “hospitalizations” is, at best, wrong. 
 

again - we’ve got a claim that:

- ignores overwhelming data, publicly available, analyzed by the people that are supposed to be the best in the world at doing this

- uses a piece of data (hospitalizations) incorrectly, and in a way that suggests the person doesn’t know anything about how hospitals operate, or how to interpret statistical information 

 

 

Just now, redskinss said:

The refs are really letting you guys play today.

Surprised there hasn't been a whistle. 

We got the playoff refs today!!!!!

[Burgold]

53 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Such as how effective natural immunity is at this point.

I think we have been getting that info in a round about measure. There are reports that people without the vaccination are 5x more likely to get get infected and if infected 29x more likely to be hospitalized. We also have some data on reinfection rates and know people can get COVID multiple times.

 

More data is always better, but the one thing we can ascertain is that natural immunity isn't halting disease progression. I think that's in part because the virus is mutating, but mainly because those unmasked and unvaxxed are providing fertile grounds to exaccerbate spread which encrourages the virus to grow and mutate.

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, redskinss said:

The refs are really letting you guys play today.

Surprised there hasn't been a whistle. 

It's like in preseason, when the refs call everything, so they can get all the bull**** out of the way.

 

The mods put a trashcan by the door and are letting the trash take itself out.

[tshile]

19 minutes ago, Borgold said:

I think we have been getting that info in a round about measure. There are reports that people without the vaccination are 5x more likely to get get infected and if infected 29x more likely to be hospitalized. We also have some data on reinfection rates and know people can get COVID multiple times.

 

More data is always better, but the one thing we can ascertain is that natural immunity isn't halting disease progression. I think that's in part because the virus is mutating, but mainly because those unmasked and unvaxxed are providing fertile grounds to exaccerbate spread which encrourages the virus to grow and mutate.

I think he means immunity from being naturally exposed. 
 

im not super familiar with that aspect except for how long those immunities last. I’m not familiar with any argument that suggests natural is better/worse than vaccination. 
 

only about how long those immunities last at what the slope of your efficacy over time is…

 

I would think having natural immunities from infection, all that goes with it, would be “better” (in the sense that it’s a more robust exposure to the every element of the virus and the disease it causes) than simply being exposed to the spike protein that carries it (which is what an mRNA vaccine is doing)

 

how that translates into getting sick when exposed… I’m unaware of that aspect. 
 

(if he does mean just… natural immunity prior to any exposure… then yeah I think we’ve already been shown what that looks like. See: the year 2020.  But I’m not really sure what that’s even getting at…)

Edited August 26, 2021 by tshile

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

I think he means immunity from being naturally exposed. 
 

im not super familiar with that aspect except for how long those immunities last. I’m not familiar with any argument that suggests natural is better/worse than vaccination. 
 

only about how long those immunities last at what the slope of your efficacy over time is…

 

I would think having natural immunities from infection, all that goes with it, would be “better” (in the sense that it’s a more robust exposure to the every element of the virus and the disease it causes) than simply being exposed to the spike protein that carries it (which is what an mRNA vaccine is doing)

 

how that translates into getting sick when exposed… I’m unaware of that aspect. 
 

(if he does mean just… natural immunity prior to any exposure… then yeah I think we’ve already been shown what that looks like. See: the year 2020.  But I’m not really sure what that’s even getting at…)

Yes. I was referring to those that have been infected with Covid already. I really wasnt trying to start a **** storm in here this morning. I am mid 50's and have lung disease. So these numbers mean a lot to me personally. I am trying to gauge my own risk as a vaccinated person to severe illness. 

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yes. I was referring to those that have been infected with Covid already. I really wasnt trying to start a **** storm in here this morning. I am mid 50's and have lung disease. So these numbers mean a lot to me personally. I am trying to gauge my own risk as a vaccinated person to severe illness. 

You’re fine. 
 

And generally speaking I’d move past and not bother. 
 

but right now we have a serious issue and there’s a lot of misinformation floating around 

 

we have entire states where farm supply stores are currently out of stock of horse de-worming medicine because people seem to have read online that works….

 

so, I decided to comment. And my harshness only (intentionally) increased when it seemed you weren’t getting what I was saying

 

my wife works high up in healthcare. For the better part of 2020 she had weekly meetings with the cdc as a rep for managing a large region with lots of people. My information is not perfect as things get lost in translation (and we have several posters that frequent the covid/vaccine threads in the tailgate that are much more knowledgeable than me) but I’ll go toe to toe with any internet random on this topic at the moment. 
 

anyways you should take it seriously. And having questions, being confused, being reluctant or hesitant is completely natural and expected. 
 

In fact, if that wasn’t your first way of responding to this whole thing, then there might be something wrong with you

 

talk to your doctor. Make sure you’re understanding what the cdc, nih, and your state health department are saying 

 

stay away from Twitter/YouTube - There be dragons. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by tshile

[mistertim]

47 minutes ago, tshile said:

We got the playoff refs today!!!!!

 

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yes. I was referring to those that have been infected with Covid already. I really wasnt trying to start a **** storm in here this morning. I am mid 50's and have lung disease. So these numbers mean a lot to me personally. I am trying to gauge my own risk as a vaccinated person to severe illness. 

 

I actually dont think you started a **** storm. You had a moment that we all can learn from collectively. though. I didnt know most of the stuff Tshile was talking about and I figure most people wouldnt. I think if we could have more conversations like this, the country would probably be better for it. 

 

Its easy to misunderstand what numbers are and what they mean when you don't have the training or previous experience to understand them. Tshile helped us a bit with that. Its ok to not know something. Its not ok to stay that way when someone is trying to help. Im learning with ya homie. 

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

we have entire states where farm supply stores are currently out of stock of horse de-worming medicine because people seem to have read online that works….

 

As a struggling dog rescue, watching these muggles injesting heartwormer and driving up the price, instead of taking a free vaccine that works, is beyond frustrating.

 

It's also used to treat millions and millions of people around the world, with no access to healthcare, who will die without it, so it's even more frustrating.

[tshile]

@clskinsfan

you also have the unfortunate situation where there are a lot of people spreading seriously bad and harmful misinformation on this specific topic, at this specific time. 

 

Some of them are doing it because they’re genuinely confused, but trying to participate. This is unfortunate but hey that’s life. 
 

some are doing it because they are, as a standard way of operating, ignorant and more interested in finding someone and something to argue about, rather than be productive people in a community. These people suck. 
 

Some people are doing it on purpose for whatever motive they have. Evil people. 
 

so, it’s easy to get piled on, jumped on, and for people to be overly harsh even if you don’t feel it was warranted. 
 

i tried to temper my own harshness but, alas, that is a problem of mine (find me in the tailgate for examples )

 

anyways - that’s a long way of saying I’m sorry for the harshness in my posts, and that I do not think you are a bad person. 
 

though I always reserve my right to change my mind later

 

 

[Bacon]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I never once said the vaccine doesnt work. I simply said it doesnt appear to prevent hospitalizations at the rate we are being told. 

No, you didn't. Don't backpedal. 

 

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

saying it prevents serious disease seems like a stretch at this point

 

There's a world of difference between "the rate of prevention does not appear to be what we are being told" and "prevention seems like a stretch."

 

But you've already gotten enough stick from everyone else in here so I won't insist on arguing about it some more. I'm sure you get where everyone stands and the gravity of the subject by now. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Bacon

[PartyPosse]

This 20% going around is based off a sample size of 88 hospitalized people. 
 

Id be real curious to know if that same 20% holds water in a larger group like say Florida. My guess would be no.

[ILikeBilly]

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Wow.  Just....wow.  At one point in time, and I'm assuming it's the same or damned close, every single person who was in the ICU in the state of Maryland was unvaccinated.  Every. Single. One.  You further showed your ignorance with the COVID positive comment. We all should know the vaccine will not prevent a positive test, it will reduce the symptoms so you don't die or get really sick.  The fact that you still don't know this shows that you simply do not know what the Hell you are talking about. So it's probably best that you step out before you embarrass yourself .  

some more.

 

Back on point good for Ron for speaking out to these morons.  

And 98% came home with antibodies.  The others, bless their souls, almost always were unhealthy before covid.  At one point, they didn't know how to treat this virus and told people to stay home until they were better or your oxygen saturation levels were so bad you had to go to the hospital.  Search "covid treament math+" and you will find well documented treatments starting from the day you may have been exposed.  Since the shots only keep you from getting extra sick, why not keep from getting extra sick using the MATH+ protocols.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

If I went through chemo during a pandemic and also had a selfish pos player get two covid violations during chemo and was dealing with the lowest amount of vaccinating players by team I’d go off too.  In fact I’d probably be cutting some asses off the squad.