Corcaigh Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, tshile said: so what do you do? Accept this will disadvantage female atheletes when it happens? And justify that by saying it won’t happen much? or look for a different solution? One element of Title IX is that it requires that Federally funded programs to provide girls and boys with equitable sports opportunities. The current interpretation is that biological gender rather than gender identity is what it applies to. The participation of MTF athletes in a female high school sport is generally accepted to discriminate against opportunities for female athletes to win championships, get recruited for college etc. 'Opportunity' is more than being on the roster. If MTF athletes want to participate in high school sports as a female I do not think there is a good answer. There will not be critical mass for MTF athletes to have their own teams. Note that many high schools do not provide equal access for boys and girls to all sports which are popular in college, such as boys volleyball, girls ice hockey etc. Without surgery or hormone therapy, which is not going to happen in a teenager, the advantages of going through puberty as a male are enormous. Sure the slowest boy is not faster than the fastest girl, but there will be cases, especially in sports where speed, strength and endurance are critical (such as T&F) where there would be no way to have fair competition between varsity level athletes of different birth sex. The performance difference is 10-15% typically. At a Virginia state level for example, athletes born as boys would beat girls by half a lap in the 1600m (~mile). Trans advocates recognize this too and that it is not equitable. I think this deserves its own thread if others want to have an adult discussion. I'll try to act like an adult but can't guarantee it. Edited January 22, 2021 by Corcaigh 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Don't make Obama mistake of not pushing through as much as possible while can, go for jugular. He did that then so we wouldnt have to today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 18 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I learned a long time ago to not even bother speaking with @LadySkinsFan regarding trans people. When it comes to this subject, she is a bigot in my opinion. Her comment regarding TERF made me go do some research though. Let’s just say that calling the term “TERF” as slur is........debatable. Here is a quote I came across that I think describes the popular opinion and those who have another opinion: Ryan W. Miller and Hannah Yasharoff, USA Today, June 9, 2020 Since it's highly unlikely that you will ever be called a TERF, here's your research from someone who directly has been called that, and I am one among many. It's a slur meant to desparage us by the rest of the alphabet soup designators besides the original LBG meaning sexual orientation. The rest of the alphabet soup are people who aren't LBG but who jumped on our bandwagon when we fought for same sex rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, tshile said: so what do you do? Accept this will disadvantage female atheletes when it happens? And justify that by saying it won’t happen much? or look for a different solution? The executive order doesn't say that FTM trans people will be allowed to play women's sports, it merely states that no children should have to worry about being excluded from sports (regardless of gender identity) from what I have read. That being said when you make a decision in life there are always pros and cons, a child can't simply one day say they want to be a female and now should be allowed to play in female sports even though they were born as a boy, Unless there is significant hormone therapy for an extended amount of time I think you should have to stick to the sport for whichever gender you were born, its simply not fair for females to have to do sports against boys whom identify as girls but haven't done any kind of treatment or therapy.... Edited January 22, 2021 by CjSuAvE22 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 hours ago, goskins10 said: Do you have this is non-pay site? If not, no worries. Just asking. I'll try and find it. This looks like a Post Article more than anything. Let me see if I can find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) @Corcaigh yup. No argument there. And i agree there is no good solution. So. What do we do? it seems to me people should play sports based on their born gender. it’s the simple and clean solution. Absent a perfect solution, I prefer simple and clean solutions. why can’t they just play with the boys? Cause they’ll not feel comfortable? Has anyone asked whether girls feel comfortable having the play with them? are we going to force born female trans to play with the boys? and while people favor the “it doesn’t happen that often”, what exactly are we supposed to say to the girls that should be in a role but now are not because this trans kid has the role? It doesn’t happen much but... I obviously will. im all for doing things that do not make people born a certain way isolated. But that’s a general statement that lacks nuance. And this needs nuance. and I think when kids are involved we need to take extra care. and no it’s not about money or scholarships. For the vast majority of kids team sports is about something else and for many it can or does play an important role. im not firm on my opinion here. Quite flexible actually. But I do find the mocking by some to be childish. Unless they actually cannot mentally process this topic at the level required, then I guess they are just being stupid. edit: to add, there absolute is character building and life lesson building involved in girls having to deal with this. And boys. I’m not ignoring that. There’s a lot of things going on for this topic. Like I said - not firm in my stance at all. Edited January 22, 2021 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Since it's highly unlikely that you will ever be called a TERF, here's your research from someone who directly has been called that, and I am one among many. It's a slur meant to desparage us by the rest of the alphabet soup designators besides the original LBG meaning sexual orientation. The rest of the alphabet soup are people who aren't LBG but who jumped on our bandwagon when we fought for same sex rights. This is your interpretation of the definition. From what I have read, you seem to be in the minority. Just like those that fly the confederate flag, just wanting it to mean something doesn’t make it so. I will again express my disappointment in your general feelings towards the trans community and my surprise considering how the gay and lesbian community was viewed in your younger years. Edited January 22, 2021 by TheGreatBuzz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Since it's highly unlikely that you will ever be called a TERF, here's your research from someone who directly has been called that, and I am one among many. It's a slur meant to desparage us by the rest of the alphabet soup designators besides the original LBG meaning sexual orientation. The rest of the alphabet soup are people who aren't LBG but who jumped on our bandwagon when we fought for same sex rights. your issue with this would be more appealing if every time you brought it up your post wasn’t riddled with your contempt for everyone that’s different than the stereotypical norm, that’s not in your specific subgroup of those people. you don’t get exclusivity over the equal rights discussion. It’s not just yours. It never really was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 That’s probably one good thing about 1/6. we can now have these investigations and reports and finding and hearings and the “you’re just targeting conservatives” argument won’t work any longer. obama tried to kick this same thing off and it got shut down because that argument worked. people will still try to make it. But I think we’ve passed the point of it working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I'd be against killing the filibuster. An idea I had while reading this thread was that I might be okay if we changed it such that each Senator had a limited number of filibusters. Let's say six, one for each year of their term. That's still a ton of filibusters, but may still create a pause in the decision whether a specific bill is worth blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Burgold said: I'd be against killing the filibuster. An idea I had while reading this thread was that I might be okay if we changed it such that each Senator had a limited number of filibusters. Let's say six, one for each year of their term. That's still a ton of filibusters, but may still create a pause in the decision whether a specific bill is worth blocking. that means you get 50 filibusters a year. Out of 52 weeks, during many of which the senate isn’t even working. This is basically a free pass to block everything 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Burgold said: I'd be against killing the filibuster. An idea I had while reading this thread was that I might be okay if we changed it such that each Senator had a limited number of filibusters. Let's say six, one for each year of their term. That's still a ton of filibusters, but may still create a pause in the decision whether a specific bill is worth blocking. the problem with changing legislative procedures to make it easier to do things when you only have a slim majority, is that one day the other side will have a slim majority too. we saw this same version of maneuvering backfire on the Dems when it came to judges. gotta be careful and think things through. You won’t always be in power. What’s going to happen that you don’t want to happen next time the republicans have a slim majority? Everyone cool with whatever that is? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 What does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, tshile said: the problem with changing legislative procedures to make it easier to do things when you only have a slim majority, is that one day the other side will have a slim majority too. we saw this same version of maneuvering backfire on the Dems when it came to judges. gotta be careful and think things through. You won’t always be in power. What’s going to happen that you don’t want to happen next time the republicans have a slim majority? Everyone cool with whatever that is? 🤷♂️ yes I am. We have to be otherwise nothing will get done. So eliminate it, pass popular legislation that helps people and makes their lives better and see if republicans overturn it. a lot of this legislation imo would also be geared toward voting rights and gerrymandering/suppression which would prevent the possibility of a minority GoP trifecta rule. And I’m confident enough that w/o trump in a general election we’d be favorites for the presidency for a while so that serves as enough of a check for me. If it blows up, so be it. We have to try otherwise we will do literally nothing and just hand the reigns over to the GOP in 2 years because America is pissed that we didn’t do anything for 2 years. It won’t be Dems fault but this is what the GOP does and it is proven to work incredibly well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: This is your interpretation of the definition. From what I have read, you seem to be in the minority. Just like those that fly the confederate flag, just wanting it to mean something doesn’t make it so. I will again express my disappointment in your general feelings towards the trans community and my surprise considering how the gay and lesbian community was viewed in your younger years. You're not in my community of women who love women, believe me that there are a bunch of us who think like this. It's maddening that men like you are supporting other men, (very small percentage of the population) to intrude upon Lesbians and women and girls in general that are 50% of the population. It's erasing the meaning of female to include males. You don't see much of the other way around because men won't stand for it. Gay men want to have sex with men, not peusdo males that are women trying to identify as men. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 44 minutes ago, tshile said: the problem with changing legislative procedures to make it easier to do things when you only have a slim majority, is that one day the other side will have a slim majority too. we saw this same version of maneuvering backfire on the Dems when it came to judges. gotta be careful and think things through. You won’t always be in power. What’s going to happen that you don’t want to happen next time the republicans have a slim majority? Everyone cool with whatever that is? 🤷♂️ On balance, I feel we need to move away from the status quo in terms of the legislative process in the Senate because time and time again, voters do not punish senators for inaction. And without the fear of such reprisal, there's no way to break through the gridlock in DC. I would prefer an easier legislative process. Smaller minority of senators having the power to force legislations to vote. Ranked voting for competing legislative versions instead of using the amendment process to attach poison pills. Mandatory public notice period for passage of bills (subject to override by 2/3 majority). Proposition system on a federal level. You shouldn't need 60 senators to make laws. That's how you go decades without addressing critical issues in this country. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 26 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: You're not in my community of women who love women, believe me that there are a bunch of us who think like this. It's maddening that men like you are supporting other men, (very small percentage of the population) to intrude upon Lesbians and women and girls in general that are 50% of the population. It's erasing the meaning of female to include males. You don't see much of the other way around because men won't stand for it. Gay men want to have sex with men, not peusdo males that are women trying to identify as men. I'm sorry but this is bigotry and the women who share this sentiment with you are bigots as well. The fact that a bunch of you think like this does not justify the view. You're going to have to learn to deal with fluidity of gender and come to grasps with the fact that inclusion and sharing space with those who are gender fluid does not erase or diminish the meaning of being a female (or male for that matter). Differentiation and diversity adds to a spectrum, it does not erase the other parts of a spectrum. No more so than my being a mix of arab, black, and white erases the meaning of each of those cultures. You're going to have to learn that people who are gender fluid are not a monolith and don't deserve to be demonized or mis-characterized with the broad brush you are using here. Being fluid does not automatically mean they are all trying to trick you into sex, they have their own lives and their own worries outside of how you fear they may impact you. They have a right to their own identity and the recognition of that identity just like you do. You don't get to decide what they are or are not. I understand that you have those fears and worries about a specific sub-segment of gender fluid people and you have the right to say no to sexual overtures and protect yourself when those situations arise. However, that fear does not give you the right to the prejudice that spews out of you every time this subject comes up. This is the same kind of energy racists pull from and it's not a good look at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Shame on you. I don't have to accept the eraser of women and biological certainty. It's not affecting you and your life on a daily basis. All of these this trans agenda is tied to transhumanism. I posted a link to a woman who's done the research to this particular agenda. I suggest that you really watch this and see where these vested billionaires want to take humankind. It's pretty sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said: Shame on you. I don't have to accept the eraser of women and biological certainty. It's not affecting you and your life on a daily basis. All of these this trans agenda is tied to transhumanism. I posted a link to a woman who's done the research to this particular agenda. I suggest that you really watch this and see where these vested billionaires want to take humankind. It's pretty sick. 2 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: You're not in my community of women who love women, believe me that there are a bunch of us who think like this. It's maddening that men like you are supporting other men, (very small percentage of the population) to intrude upon Lesbians and women and girls in general that are 50% of the population. It's erasing the meaning of female to include males. You don't see much of the other way around because men won't stand for it. Gay men want to have sex with men, not peusdo males that are women trying to identify as men. Much of the nonsense you spew is similar to the nonsense from those who are against homosexuals. This is made even sadder by the fact that you are part of a community that has been held down by these similar arguments. Shameful. No need to keep derailing this thread though. Much like a lot of Trump supporters, your sad, hateful views will not be changed. We can only take solace in the fact that you are on the older end of the age spectrum and only have so long to spew your hate speech. Edited January 23, 2021 by TheGreatBuzz Spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Since @TD_washingtonredskins is either shy or doesn't take hints very well 🙂 I started a thread on transgender rights. It is a worthy discussion. It's just getting a bit much in this thread. So I also encourage @TheGreatBuzz and @LadySkinsFan to join TD there and continue their lively discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Since @TD_washingtonredskins is either shy or doesn't take hints very well 🙂 I started a thread on transgender rights. It is a worthy discussion. It's just getting a bit much in this thread. So I also encourage @TheGreatBuzz and @LadySkinsFan to join TD there and continue their lively discussion. TD just started a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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