Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Rivera this morning.  He's doubled down that he'd like to see Taylor run more.  It's been said in other interviews there is no leash on him on that front.  He thought he was too quick with the dump offs, came off of his reads too quick. Talked about some throws that were off to Terry that could have ended up big plays.  Like I said maybe Taylor thinks the leash is implied by him knowing he can't get hurt but IMO he needs to take his chances, regardless. 

 

Rivera per usual was nice and polite but you can tell he didn't think he played well and is hoping he learns from it.  I suspect on Sunday we are going to see the Taylor let it all fly approach, will see how it pans out.  IMO that's his best chance to show he's more than a backup in this league.   the Packers are a middle of the pack defense in terms of giving up points. 

 

 

 

 

Probably because he was more than ten yards down field so Heinicke knew he couldn't reach him. I bet Retirement Ron is begging him to run more so when he gets knocked out Allen can play.

 

All said in jest.

[Skinsinparadise]

Forgot Ron also mentioned that Henicike might have hesitated to run because at times KC had a spy player dedicated to it.

 

But listening now to multiple interviews with Rivera and Scott Turner, considering they both think Heinicke's mobility is a major strength and both mentioned he could have run more.  I gather its clear that Heinicke is putting the harness on himself on this front but in his defense he knows if he gets hurt that's likely the end of the road for him to have a chance to start in the league so I get the paradox for him.   Also, its clear like RG3 they don't like him taking direct hits and want him to slide. 

 

 

 

This is true below but i want to see Heinicke unshackle himself as far as running against GB and I think he will do it.   Big game for him playing against his boyhood favorite team. 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I gather its clear that Heinicke is putting the harness on himself on this front but in his defense he knows if he gets hurt that's likely the end of the road for him to have a chance to start in the league so I get the paradox for him. 

I get that he needs to believe in himself but I'm not convinced he's done enough to carve out a career as a backup.  He will need to use his legs more to make up for being a poor passer.  If he keeps going down the road he's headed, this will most likely be his last contract.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get that he needs to believe in himself but I'm not convinced he's done enough to carve out a career as a backup.  He will need to use his legs more to make up for being a poor passer.  If he keeps going down the road he's headed, this will most likely be his last contract.

 

Will see.  To my eyes he looks like a decent backup, its looking more and more though not a starter but I'll let the sample size play out more.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Will see.  To my eyes he looks like a decent backup, its looking more and more though not a starter but I'll let the sample size play out more.

I think when he uses his legs, he's definitely a decent backup.  The dude who played the Chiefs horrendous defense this past Sunday not so much.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think when he uses his legs, he's definitely a decent backup.  The dude who played the Chiefs horrendous defense this past Sunday not so much.

 

I'd agree with that.  I am expecting though for him to use his legs more now.  I think this pocket passer drill has been mostly a dud.  Seems like the coaches likely urge Taylor to let it fly this Sunday.  Will see. 

[skinny21]

A few plays stood out to me last week.

 

2 were the downfield one on ones to Terry and Brown.  Good to see Heinicke give these guys a shot, and if you see those types of passes completed, it’s more likely 1) to lead to scores (the correlation between explosive plays and scoring) and 2) to open up some of the underneath stuff.  Arm strength usually isn’t so much of a factor on those types of throws vs the tight window throws (particularly to the outside).

 

Taylor tried to run up the middle once and we saw the DT spin inside to make the tackle.  Seems like teams are focused on containing him in the pocket and (whether planned or not) showing Taylor a running lane and then closing it down suddenly, ie. baiting the qb to run, is another tool in the toolbox for defenses.

 

The pump fake and subsequent td to RSJ.  I called for this last week - teams understand his arm limitations and are ready to jump on the short/intermediate routes.  As I said above, the arm limitation doesn’t mean he can’t put the ball deep, and I said last week he (and Turner) needs to play a bit of a chess match with the safeties.

 

 

If I’m a DC planning for Taylor, I have my dline playing contain (maybe throw some blitzes to rush throws), occasionally have a spy for him and let my dline rush full bore, bracket Terry, and disguise coverages to make him hesitate.  If he throws the ball just a touch late, there’s a good chance my guys can get to the ball/receiver because of his limited arm strength.

 

Given the above, if I’m Turner, I’m using Terry to draw coverage from others, calling plays with double moves, and crossing routes and such.  Taylor usually has time in the pocket, so those longer developing plays give guys a chance to get open and Taylor more time to scan/read the coverage.

 

Taylor knows the offense, but I have to remind myself that he’s still a novice in terms of reading NFL level defenses.  Bummer to see such a lackluster performance vs a terrible D, but in some ways I think we’re seeing some learning going on in real time.  Taking the one on one shots, a more effective pump fake (last time he did so, on a wheel route to JD, it was essentially pointless), knowing when to run, how to protect himself, etc.  

 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If the season is over by the bye week, and that is a very real possibility, there is absolutely no reason to not play Kyle Allen at that point.  They got Fitzpatrick, which IMO was nothing to get excited over, because they needed another quarterback on the roster.  Heinicke's injury history and lack of experience were factors in that decision.  Not to mention that Kyle Allen, the guy that was the starter before he got hurt, was still rehabbing his injury.  

 

True, but the only reason Allen started was because Haskins was literally the worst QB in the NFL and the only other option was Alex Smith who was coming back from a gruesome leg injury and hadn't played a snap since 2018.

 

I think they went out and got Allen because they knew he was comfortable with the system, wouldn't cost much, and would give them a bit of a security blanket. I doubt they had any illusions about him suddenly becoming the franchise QB here. He had some flashes in his starts with Carolina but overall he was very mediocre.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with seeing Allen, but I'm guessing that if Heinicke struggles into the bye and Fitz is good to go, they'll go with Fitz.

 

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Comparing Kurt Cousins to Taylor Heinicke is ultimate fan babble drunk of the Kool aid

 

Yeah Kirk is a better and much more proven QB in the league than Heinicke. Though they're basically polar opposites in playing style. Kirk is best when everything is going according to plan within the system, falters when he has to go off schedule, and has a history of playing poorly in big situations. Heinicke is best when he has to improvise and go off schedule, but as a pure pocket passer he's not very good. He also seems to play well in big situations.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Put the blame on Heineke (the player), sounds about right with this current regime. There was a clear narrative shared by coaches during the off season that Heineke needed to manage games and protect himself better. As with most coach speak, the fan and media is often required to piece things together and most of the time we support our bias. 
 

You opened my eyes to the idea Heineke also is playing a role in wanting to preserve his health and future in the league. Sure, he wants to start, but he also wouldn’t mind being a back up for next 5-7 years making millions of dollars versus on his sisters couch. Don’t at all fault him for that if that’s the case. 

 

The dude should be running RO and RPO much more, a young Wilson like approach and be advised to protect himself. Running an offense Joe Flacco could function in is a misuse of Heinekes lone superpower on an NFL field. Go all out, and stay out of mediocrity, but yet again, here they are… mediocre. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by wit33

[mistertim]

It seems like extremes. After last season Rivera praised Heinicke but also said that in order to be a viable longer term QB in the NFL, he'd need to learn to be a bit less cavalier with his body. Now it seems to have gone in the opposite direction to where Heinicke is seemingly reticent to do much running or scrambling unless he absolutely has to. Which basically takes away the main thing he has going for him.

 

No way to know for sure if that's more design or more Heinicke himself, but I doubt Ron is just lying through his teeth when he says that they haven't discouraged Heinicke from making use of his legs. Need to be able to find some sort of middle ground.

[NeverSurrender]

12 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Oh our D is not giving away games this year? lol

Kirk had flashes of being great. But saying dominance is a little bit much though. 

Kirk was dominate sure...... when the game isnt on the line.

[ODU AGGIE]

I have never seen TH play like he has played the last two weeks. He only completed 48% of his passes against Buffalo, and he has consistently thrown for 67-68% as long as I have watched him. He did not run one time against the Chiefs, and that must be a first for him. Here's the good news. I think I have figured it out. I bought a Heinicke jersey and have worn it for the last two games. Sunday it stays in the closet. All should be well. That is all. Carry on.

[NoCalMike]

I rarely hear a coach requesting their QB run more.  Did he get into specifics?  Does he mean literally take off running downfield for yards, or was he meaning more to use his legs to create more time, space, so big plays can potentially develop?

 

It would seem if you want your QB on the move more, then go to Scott Turner and make it clear that the QB is not going to be successful sitting back in the pocket, and they need to get him on the movie with bootlegs, RPO, etc etc......

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I rarely hear a coach requesting their QB run more.  Did he get into specifics?  Does he mean literally take off running downfield for yards, or was he meaning more to use his legs to create more time, space, so big plays can potentially develop?

 

It would seem if you want your QB on the move more, then go to Scott Turner and make it clear that the QB is not going to be successful sitting back in the pocket, and they need to get him on the movie with bootlegs, RPO, etc etc......

 

Your first thought, not your second.  The second is planned plays, sometimes the defense has somebody on the backside taking away that action.  Whenever the coach says stuff like "needs to use their legs more" they mean offscript.

 

If you recall, that same criticism was used frequently against Kirk Cousins.

[tmandoug1]

22 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

True, but the only reason Allen started was because Haskins was literally the worst QB in the NFL and the only other option was Alex Smith who was coming back from a gruesome leg injury and hadn't played a snap since 2018.

 

I think they went out and got Allen because they knew he was comfortable with the system, wouldn't cost much, and would give them a bit of a security blanket. I doubt they had any illusions about him suddenly becoming the franchise QB here. He had some flashes in his starts with Carolina but overall he was very mediocre.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with seeing Allen, but I'm guessing that if Heinicke struggles into the bye and Fitz is good to go, they'll go with Fitz.

 

 

Yeah Kirk is a better and much more proven QB in the league than Heinicke. Though they're basically polar opposites in playing style. Kirk is best when everything is going according to plan within the system, falters when he has to go off schedule, and has a history of playing poorly in big situations. Heinicke is best when he has to improvise and go off schedule, but as a pure pocket passer he's not very good. He also seems to play well in big situations.

Why would anyone even compare the two in the first place? KC has been playing in the NFL for 9 years. 

[Llevron]

10 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I rarely hear a coach requesting their QB run more.  Did he get into specifics?  Does he mean literally take off running downfield for yards, or was he meaning more to use his legs to create more time, space, so big plays can potentially develop?

 

It would seem if you want your QB on the move more, then go to Scott Turner and make it clear that the QB is not going to be successful sitting back in the pocket, and they need to get him on the movie with bootlegs, RPO, etc etc......

 

I i remember correctly the coach said on the Junkies or some radio show this week that they do almost always run from the RPO and that he has that option most of the time. It seems that Heinike has gotten a bit conservative and they dont like that from him. 

 

Its a tough position for the guy to be in, too. Cause what made him attractive to coaches and fans was his balls to the walls **** it approach. But he also has to last a season and he knows if he plays every game like that.....he may not be able to. I imagine out coaches knew that from the start and thats why they didn't give him the job in the first place.  

[mistertim]

I can somewhat understand Heinicke's hesitation. He probably knows this is his shot, and if he gets hurt that could be it for him. So Ron basically telling him to do it more often puts him in a tough position. But it's a bit of a catch-22 because his ability to scramble and make off schedule plays is IMO what makes him a viable NFL QB...but if he gets hurt then he also won't exactly be an attractive QB option.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I can somewhat understand Heinicke's hesitation. He probably knows this is his shot, and if he gets hurt that could be it for him. So Ron basically telling him to do it more often puts him in a tough position. But it's a bit of a catch-22 because his ability to scramble and make off schedule plays is IMO what makes him a viable NFL QB...but if he gets hurt then he also won't exactly be an attractive QB option.

Awesome lol Washington has a journeyman QB preserving his long term future at the expense of the team. That’s an extreme view and not one entirely believe, but dislike the residue it leaves relating to mediocre being okay. 
 

Heineke running in my short time watching him seems to ignite a fire within him and knows that’s his special ability on the field. A laymen fan I am, but I would think I’d want to manufacture these opportunities for the dude throughout a game script.
 

Designed run plays can be safe for the QB. When scrambling, going off script, leading to chaos that’s when there’s a higher chance of injury. Even then, the QB can keen themselves safe. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Awesome lol Washington has a journeyman QB preserving his long term future at the expense of the team. That’s an extreme view and not one entirely believe, but dislike the residue it leaves relating to mediocre being okay. 

I don’t see what’s hard to believe about it.  Imagine if you had the chance to change your life from a financial perspective.  Being an everyday Joe with a regular job or a chance at sticking on an NFL roster making NFL money and never having to do everyday Joe jobs again.  You’ve went from sleeping on your sisters couch to being 1 of 32 dudes in the world to start on Sundays.

 

Even if he’s not consciously preserving himself, I’m sure the subconscious takes over.

 

Whatever it is, I hope he’s learned over the past few weeks that fame is fleeting and the only way to stick around is going to be by moving the sticks with his legs.

[Morneblade]

I haven't had much of a chance to post or watch much, work has been getting in the way. But TH has got to be more aggressive. If he's not  using his legs and being aggressive, he's not very good. He's got to go back to being aggressive and using his legs more. He's better when things go off script and playing parking lot football. He's got to get that mentality back

[UK Skins]

I've watched quite a few Kansas games recently (not just against us). Does anyone know if Mahomes' runs are designed, off-script or even a bit of both? Because that's what I want Heinicke to be doing.

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I've watched quite a few Kansas games recently (not just against us). Does anyone know if Mahomes' runs are designed, off-script or even a bit of both? Because that's what I want Heinicke to be doing.

 From what I have seen, almost always off script.

[GOATFrerotte]

45 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t see what’s hard to believe about it.  Imagine if you had the chance to change your life from a financial perspective.  Being an everyday Joe with a regular job or a chance at sticking on an NFL roster making NFL money and never having to do everyday Joe jobs again.  You’ve went from sleeping on your sisters couch to being 1 of 32 dudes in the world to start on Sundays.

 

Even if he’s not consciously preserving himself, I’m sure the subconscious takes over.

 

Whatever it is, I hope he’s learned over the past few weeks that fame is fleeting and the only way to stick around is going to be by moving the sticks with his legs.

 

It's usually the opposite of this. When you get your one chance you go all out without fear of anything. Playing timid is the last thing you should do with your one chance. But I don't think that's what he's doing to be honest. I think he's just trying to prove he's a legitimate passer. 

[NoCalMike]

15 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I've watched quite a few Kansas games recently (not just against us). Does anyone know if Mahomes' runs are designed, off-script or even a bit of both? Because that's what I want Heinicke to be doing.

 

I think it is a combo of all the above, however you do seem Mahomes run sideways a lot as opposed to downfield, which would indicate that he is often times scrambling around with passing the ball still in mind the entire time.   That is what I assume Rivera would like to see Taylor do more.  Also, running doesn't automatically mean playing reckless.  Don't go for the extra yard every time, don't dive head first when not necessary.  His TD runs are different, but generally speaking, avoid contact as much as possible.  Slide.