The Vaccine Thread

[Ball Security]

@gbearand @bearrock, do you guys still avoid eating in restaurants?  Do you think all restaurants need to stop the dining in option now and for the near future (6-12 months)?  And why does the CDC say that vaccinated people do not need to quarantine after they’ve been exposed to someone with COVID if they show no symptoms.  Do you think that is a very dangerous recommendation?

[goskins10]

12 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Talk to me like I’m five.  If I’m vaccinated, why do I need to wear a mask?  I understand that I can still get it, though unlikely.  But if I do get it, the chances of me getting sick is ridiculously low.  And the chance of me spreading it is lower.

 

I think some have missed the real issue - there are variants (new strains) to the virus that the vaccine you got does not block. So it's NOT unlikely for you to get a new variant if that variant has proven to get past the vaccine. At that point the vaccinated and unvaccinated are no different except the vaccinated are very unlikely to get the original variant. 

 

So the masks are all about the variants. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by goskins10

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think some have missed the real issue - there are variants (new strains) to the virus that the vaccine you got does not block. So it's NOT unlikely for you to get a new variant if that variant has proven to get past the vaccine. At that point the vaccinated and unvaccinated are no different except the vaccinated are very unlikely to get the original variant. 

 

So the masks are all abotu the variants. 

I think that's mostly true. It seems that while the vaccines do not stop all the variants they do soften their punch. My understanding (unless I've missed a new report) is that those vaccinated are significantly less likely to wind up in ICU's or die from COVID if they catch it or one of the variants. So, it seems the vaccine is somewhat beneficial against the variants.

 

That said, I support anyone who feels they ought to wear a mask to protect themselves or others. An extra ounce of prevention rarely causes harm and may very well prove beneficial.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Borgold

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Borgold said:

I think that's mostly true. It seems that while the vaccines do not stop all the variants they do soften their punch. My understanding (unless I've missed a new report) is that those vaccinated are significantly less likely to wind up in ICU's or die from COVID if they catch it or one of the variants. So, it seems the vaccine is somewhat beneficial against the variants.

   

 

So far maybe. But it's very early so not sure we can make that statement definitively. Also, while you may not end up in an ICU or die, you still are contagious during incubation period and can get very very sick. 

 

2 minutes ago, Borgold said:

That said, I support anyone who feels they ought to wear a mask to protect themselves or others. An extra ounce of prevention rarely causes harm and very well prove beneficial.

 

I agree here. I just will never understand the big deal about wearing a ****ing mask to do your part for the society you live and participate in. 

[Ball Security]

Just now, goskins10 said:

 

So far maybe. But it's very early so not sure we can make that statement definitively. Also, while you may not end up in an ICU or die, you still are contagious during incubation period and can get very very sick. 

 

 

I agree here. I just will never understand the big deal about wearing a ****ing mask to do your part for the society you live and participate in. 

Do you think all US restaurants should close in person dining for the near future (6-12 months)?  Are the major sports being irresponsible for continuing their seasons?

[gbear]

Funny you should ask that question, my wife and I took our kids out to a restaurant on Monday.  It was the first time we have eaten out in almost 18 months.  We did it because the two older along with my wife and I are vaccinated.  We did it at an outside restaurant, and we did it after looking at Delta reports in MD.  We said this was a rare window, and we didn't know for how long we would feel safe eating out.  The laugher is we ate at our favorite family Mexican restaurant from whom we have been doing take out during the pandemic.  We were also alone eating outside because everyone else chose inside (probably the heat).  We had the entire area for ourselves, with nobody but the occassional waiter/owner coming close enough to talk to us.

 

Yesterday was my son's first in-person jujitsu practice in the last 14 months.  He is fully vaccinated, but we did warn him if Delta levels get too high in MD, we will pull him again.  

 

It was marvelous eating out.  Believe me.  I know the strain playing it safe causes.  We are a family of 6 (4 special needs kids), living in one house with very little outside contact...since early Feb 2020 (sister in law is a doc in WA who clued us in on how bad it would get).  We want our lives to return to normal too.  Yet, we will still play it safe, not just for us but for all of our family members.  We keep a very small circle, and while it is bigger than it was in Jan, it is not open season yet.

 

So yes, I know it is hard, but we are mostly living the advice I give on here about COVID.

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Do you think all US restaurants should close in person dining for the near future (6-12 months)?  Are the major sports being irresponsible for continuing their seasons?

 

I believe in following the CDC. And right now they suggest wearing a mask in enclosed areas. I don't think anyone is talking about shutting everything down. 

 

Right now, if the proper precautions are followed, then sports are free to do with what they want. And ultimately its to us as individuals to do our part. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by goskins10

[just654]

19 minutes ago, gbear said:

just654,

Try to remember there is a public health cost too.  Like not getting insurance has a cost paid for by the rest of society, so to does not getting vaccinated.   Who pays when COVID is allowed to spread, even amongst just the unvaccinated, to the point where a new variant emerges?  We all pay if we let COVID spread, even if it is just amongst a group to which we do not belong.

 

 

Yes there is a cost to anything. You can say this about many many issues (Most of them dont have anything to do with this topic). 

[Ball Security]

22 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I believe in following the CDC. And right now they suggest wearing a mask in enclosed areas. I don't think anyone is talking about shutting everything down. 

 

Right now, if the proper precautions are followed, then sports are free to do with what they want. And ultimately its to us as individuals to do our part. 

But you can’t wear a mask when eating indoors.  Should they stay open?  I know I’m probably coming off as a dick here, but a lot of this guidance contradicts itself.  Wear a mask when indoors.  Cool.  But then how can you have indoor dining in restaurants?  Wear a mask even if vaccinated because you can spread the virus.  Okay.  But, also from CDC, no need to bother quarantining if you’ve been exposed to someone who has COVID.  Why not? Can you get others sick or not.  Am I dense, or are these two things not contradictory?

EDIT:  I’m watching the playoffs, I see people in the stands with their masks off eating.  Is this safe to continue?

Edited June 30, 2021 by Ball Security

[skinsmarydu]

I've spent most of my life in the food biz, and have eaten out about 7-8 times.  The places I go are still keeping guests distant, and I like that.  Personally, I wouldn't eat around people in a sports/stadium atmosphere, but that's just me...maybe separated out on the concourse.  I hope the day comes when we can all do that safely. 

I saw this morning on the local news that only 38% of GA is fully vaxxed, so I'll keep wearing my Caps masks in any stores. 

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

@gbearand @bearrock, do you guys still avoid eating in restaurants?  Do you think all restaurants need to stop the dining in option now and for the near future (6-12 months)?  And why does the CDC say that vaccinated people do not need to quarantine after they’ve been exposed to someone with COVID if they show no symptoms.  Do you think that is a very dangerous recommendation?

 

54 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Do you think all US restaurants should close in person dining for the near future (6-12 months)?  Are the major sports being irresponsible for continuing their seasons?

 

No.  I think closing indoor dining, suspending sports seasons, gathering numbers restrictions, etc, these are extraordinarily high and burdensome prevention measures.  They may been warranted at point, but at least for the vaccinated, they are no longer warranted.  But masks.  We are talking about masks (in Allen Iverson voice).  And indoors only.  Yet some people (not you) would react like they're being told to crawl through broken glass or something.

[bearrock]

26 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

But you can’t wear a mask when eating indoors.  Should they stay open?  I know I’m probably coming off as a dick here, but a lot of this guidance contradicts itself.  Wear a mask when indoors.  Cool.  But then how can you have indoor dining in restaurants?  Wear a mask even if vaccinated because you can spread the virus.  Okay.  But, also from CDC, no need to bother quarantining if you’ve been exposed to someone who has COVID.  Why not? Can you get others sick or not.  Am I dense, or are these two things not contradictory?

EDIT:  I’m watching the playoffs, I see people in the stands with their masks off eating.  Is this safe to continue?

 

Again quarantining is a very high burden measure.  For the vaccinated, the experts have deemed that the cost outweighs the benefit.

 

And you can modify the mask recommendation to allow masks off when eating, but masks on from entry to your table and servers masks on at all times.  Would it be the same as masks on 100% of the time?  No.  Would it be better than masks 0% of the time while allowing restaurants to continue operating?  Yes.

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

 

No.  I think closing indoor dining, suspending sports seasons, gathering numbers restrictions, etc, these are extraordinarily high and burdensome prevention measures.  They may been warranted at point, but at least for the vaccinated, they are no longer warranted.  But masks.  We are talking about masks (in Allen Iverson voice).  And indoors only.  Yet some people (not you) would react like they're being told to crawl through broken glass or something.

This is my whole point.  How can I wear a mask in an indoor restaurant?  And since I can’t, why is it safe there, but not safe in a clothing store?  Again, I wear my mask in stores, but I do eat and go to the gym without one. So when I hear about mask mandates for the vaccinated, I want to know is it safe for a vaccinated person to eat inside.

[bearrock]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

This is my whole point.  How can I wear a mask in an indoor restaurant?  And since I can’t, why is it safe there, but not safe in a clothing store?  Again, I wear my mask in stores, but I do eat and go to the gym without one. So when I hear about mask mandates for the vaccinated, I want to know is it safe for a vaccinated person to eat inside.

 

I did reply to the mask indoor eating above (it broke it apart to a different post, not sure why).

 

Safe is not a binary concept in this context.  Is it safer for a vaccinated person to eat indoors without a mask?  Hell of a lot safer than the unvaccinated for sure.  Completely immune from catching covid?  No (then again nothing is really).  Low enough of a risk to let people make their own call?  For now, yes.  But variant changes things.  If not delta, possibly gamma.  Hopefully never, but possibly tomorrow.  People just have to accept that what is considered safe (not absolutely, but relatively) today may not continue to be safe indefinitely.  And while the bar should be extraordinarily high to institute high burden measures, a low burden measures like masks when able (even if some indoor activities may have to be exempt from it for things like eating), should be relatively uncontroversial.   Unfortunately, it is very controversial to some.

 

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

But you can’t wear a mask when eating indoors.  Should they stay open?  I know I’m probably coming off as a dick here, but a lot of this guidance contradicts itself.  Wear a mask when indoors.  Cool.  But then how can you have indoor dining in restaurants?  Wear a mask even if vaccinated because you can spread the virus.  Okay.  But, also from CDC, no need to bother quarantining if you’ve been exposed to someone who has COVID.  Why not? Can you get others sick or not.  Am I dense, or are these two things not contradictory?

 

C'mon, of course while you are eating you take your mask off. You are also separated by 6 feet. What most restaurants do is separate seating so you are not sitting right next to someone. The CDC guidance is for the current variant of Covid. Again, no one knows enough about the new variants to say. It may be that you need to quarantine if there is evidence of widespread of the delta variance or variants. 

 

It feels like you are looking for someone to hold your hand and tell you exactly what to do and give you 100% assurance you will not get it. That is an unrealistic expectation. There is nothing that is 100% - ever. You could do everything right and still get it. You could do everything wrong and not catch a thing.

 

Apply some common sense, do your best to put the odds in your favor and follow the guidelines the best you can. 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by goskins10

[Larry]

2 hours ago, gbear said:

As for another reason to be required to wear a mask, I give you the fact so many people are not vaccinated.  We can not tell who is vaccinated in a quick organized way (not really a culture of "where are your papers" to people walking around or into a store).

 

Actually, if I were placing bets on whether a given person is vaccinated or not?  

 

If the person's wearing a mask, I would bet that they are vaccinated.  (I know that I am, and I mask.)  Because those are the people who care about reducing infection, and are willing to undergo minor inconvenience.  

 

Whereas, show me somebody without a mask, and even more telling, gets offended if you ask, and then announces he's vaccinated?  He's not.  
 

2 hours ago, gbear said:

Then there is the added benefit of not spreading other illnesses besides covid.  Did you note the drop in flu deaths this past year? 

 

Yep.  

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Larry

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[tshile]

5 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think some have missed the real issue - there are variants (new strains) to the virus that the vaccine you got does not block. So it's NOT unlikely for you to get a new variant if that variant has proven to get past the vaccine. At that point the vaccinated and unvaccinated are no different except the vaccinated are very unlikely to get the original variant. 

 

So the masks are all about the variants. 

This does not match the info I have. 
 

in fact my understanding is moderna and Pfizer people are well set, and won’t need a booster for the variants, and in fact a booster within 6 months has bad side effects

 

J&J people are the ones they’re not sure about and they expect the CDC to have the data and comment on 1.5-2 weeks 

[NoCalMike]

As far as eating out at a restaurant we mainly had been avoiding it previously not just due to the pandemic but also because our kids would tend to get bored and want to mess around too quickly.   However what kind of shocked me the other day was driving by a Golden Corral and seeing it open.....I figured buffets like that would be a thing of the past or at least take longer to figure out how to operate in the "new world" I am sort of curious to look inside just to see what differences there are in the operation and setup.

[tshile]

Oh and I’m eating in restaurants w/o mask now and so is wife. 
 

the only time I wear a mask is:

- If the building has a sign that says to wear one and doesn’t stipulate vaccination status

- if my kids are with because they have to wear masks 

 

I guess there’s also a third scenario where someone I’m with requests I wear a mask. No problem there. Just hasn’t happened. 

[Skinsfan1311]

25 minutes ago, tshile said:

Oh and I’m eating in restaurants w/o mask now and so is wife. 
 

the only time I wear a mask is:

- If the building has a sign that says to wear one and doesn’t stipulate vaccination status

- if my kids are with because they have to wear masks 

 

I guess there’s also a third scenario where someone I’m with requests I wear a mask. No problem there. Just hasn’t happened. 

Same here.   

 

[goskins10]

50 minutes ago, tshile said:

This does not match the info I have. 
 

in fact my understanding is moderna and Pfizer people are well set, and won’t need a booster for the variants, and in fact a booster within 6 months has bad side effects

 

J&J people are the ones they’re not sure about and they expect the CDC to have the data and comment on 1.5-2 weeks 

 

Your comment is additional information - also, I never said anything about an additional booster.   

 

They know very little about the variants. Yes, initial information is positive. But there is still work to be done. Overall it's better to wear the mask than to not wear the mask. 

[tshile]

24 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Your comment is additional information - also, I never said anything about an additional booster.   

 

you said “there are variants (new strains) to the virus that the vaccine you got does not block”

 

so no, not additional information. Conflicting information. 
 

I added the booster piece because it’s part of what I understand. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

They know very little about the variants. Yes, initial information is positive. But there is still work to be done. Overall it's better to wear the mask than to not wear the mask. 

This does not match the information I have. 

[Ball Security]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I believe in following the CDC. And right now they suggest wearing a mask in enclosed areas. I don't think anyone is talking about shutting everything down. 

 

Right now, if the proper precautions are followed, then sports are free to do with what they want. And ultimately its to us as individuals to do our part. 

“For now, the CDC recommendations stand that if in fact you are vaccinated—fully vaccinated—you are protected, and you do not need to wear a mask outdoors or indoors” -Anthony Fauci 6/29.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/06/30/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

 

”If you’re vaccinated you’re safe from the variants that are circulating here in the United States” —Rochelle Walensky 6/30 on the Today Show.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Ball Security

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

“For now, the CDC recommendations stand that if in fact you are vaccinated—fully vaccinated—you are protected, and you do not need to wear a mask outdoors or indoors” -Anthony Fauci 6/29.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/06/30/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

 

”If you’re vaccinated you’re safe from the variants that are circulating here in the United States” —Rochelle Walensky 6/30 on the Today Show.

 

17 minutes ago, tshile said:

you said “there are variants (new strains) to the virus that the vaccine you got does not block”

 

so no, not additional information. Conflicting information. 
 

I added the booster piece because it’s part of what I understand. 

 

 

This does not match the information I have. 

 

Ok, so there is more information than I had seen. Fair enough.

 

But why is such a big deal to wear a mask? Do you think the CDC is infallible? Is the vaccine 100% fro all variants for all people? They do not know that for sure. And that is not a slam on CDC. They are doing what they can as fast as they can. I have no problem with them or the information they have provided. But you can still hold yourself more accountable and take the extra precaution of wearing a mask.

 

I am fully vaccinated. Had no problem getting vaccinated. But I still wear a mask inside. I just do not get the emotion stirred by a piece of cloth. What is the big deal?