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Next Day Thread (Same Day Edition): WFT vs. Dallas I

KDawg

By KDawg
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HOGPOWER

HOGPOWER

Posted
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Can't believe Gibson is getting criticism for his "vision." The guy is solid. Some people overthink everything. And the whole DL functions as a unit. Jonathan Allen may not always show up with big numbers on the stat sheets, but he influences everything around him. They all do. It's going to become the best DL in the league if they can stay together and stay healthy. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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7 minutes ago, HOGPOWER said:

Can't believe Gibson is getting criticism for his "vision." The guy is solid. Some people overthink everything. And the whole DL functions as a unit. Jonathan Allen may not always show up with big numbers on the stat sheets, but he influences everything around him. They all do. It's going to become the best DL in the league if they can stay together and stay healthy. 

You're wrong.  GIbson's "vision" is absolutely awful, specifically on outside zone runs.  He doesn't know when he should extend to the edge to get around a block, or cut inside of the block.

 

You know why?  Because he's a rookie who's played 7 games, and he didn't have to do it in college.

 

It is a criticism.  It's isn't an indictment.  It doesn't mean he is a bust.  It doesn't mean he isn't still contributing.  It doesn't mean he doesn't have fantastic physical gifts.

 

What it means is that he has to learn and develop that part of his game.  Which is absolutely fine, and in fact expected, of a mid-round rookie...

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Nomadskin11

Nomadskin11

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@KDawg thanks always for these write ups, I enjoy them immensely.

 

I think there is indeed a two frownie today: DHop.

- very concerning that he has continued to be inconsistent even from very make-able range.

- even in a blowout, still want to see him make it

- nervous about him in close games. Had he hit the FG he missed in the Giants game, we might be talking about a 3-4 team riding tons of momentum

- guys in the locker room have it in the back of their minds I'm sure.

 

Unlikely we try to bring a new guy in, with so much else to worry about on the football side of things + covid.

 

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KDawg

KDawg

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11 minutes ago, Nomadskin11 said:

 

@KDawg thanks always for these write ups, I enjoy them immensely.

 

I think there is indeed a two frownie today: DHop.

- very concerning that he has continued to be inconsistent even from very make-able range.

- even in a blowout, still want to see him make it

- nervous about him in close games. Had he hit the FG he missed in the Giants game, we might be talking about a 3-4 team riding tons of momentum

- guys in the locker room have it in the back of their minds I'm sure.

 

Unlikely we try to bring a new guy in, with so much else to worry about on the football side of things + covid.

 


Oh I may update to Hopkins in the AM. As I write these I think about the missed field goal but somehow always manage to forget Hopkins.

 

Good call and agreed.

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You're wrong.  GIbson's "vision" is absolutely awful, specifically on outside zone runs.  He doesn't know when he should extend to the edge to get around a block, or cut inside of the block.

 

You know why?  Because he's a rookie who's played 7 games, and he didn't have to do it in college.

 

It is a criticism.  It's isn't an indictment.  It doesn't mean he is a bust.  It doesn't mean he isn't still contributing.  It doesn't mean he doesn't have fantastic physical gifts.

 

What it means is that he has to learn and develop that part of his game.  Which is absolutely fine, and in fact expected, of a mid-round rookie...


I actually disagree with the vision thing. I think he has fairly good vision in space. And his gap vision is better inside than it is outside on wide zone. 
 

He isn’t a seasoned vet, but I think awful is a little harsh. He needs work but on a few of those runs today he used leverage and anticipation to get free.

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

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I knew the Cowboys were mediocre given what their record was even with Dak, but I didn't realize they were so bad on both sides of the ball currently that they would get blown out by WFT.

 

So, it seems pretty apparent that Kyle Allen is better right now than Haskins.  The bigger question moving forward (longer term) is whether Rivera feels Allen can legitimately develop into the answer at QB or if Rivera is simply making the moves he thinks are the best for winning in 2020 given the situation with the division. 

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

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Games against good teams are still going to be quite the adventure until the offense gets more firepower, but seeing the defense able to work in a game where they weren't on the field constantly was a nice change up.  Of course the D-line had their two best games against very beat up O-lines.  

 

The schedule for the next 4 games  after the bye all seem winnable at this point.  Hard to fathom expecting them to win them all at this point given that the team still has a lot to show, but now you do start to wonder what the record would have been had Kyle Allen started since Week 1?

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zCommander

zCommander

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8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets canned tomorrow. I don’t think he does... but I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

Jerry won't do that. If he does then people will think he is a failure. Their star QB is out. The backup gets hurt. The 3rd stringer.. well you saw how that went. The coach is safe for this season. 

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wit33

wit33

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4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You're wrong.  GIbson's "vision" is absolutely awful, specifically on outside zone runs.  He doesn't know when he should extend to the edge to get around a block, or cut inside of the block.

 

You know why?  Because he's a rookie who's played 7 games, and he didn't have to do it in college.


Are there examples of guys at RB who are bad with vision that improve this though?

 

Seems like something you have or don’t in most cases. Trying to think of RBs who became better with vision, but nothing off the top. 

 

 

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fearlessNelms

fearlessNelms

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Nice win- been a while since we had a rocking chair win. The team looked sharp on both sides and played their best game of the year so far. I really like our 3 back rotation with Gibson, McKissic and Barber. These guys all run hard and I like that they always fall forward after contact- those extra few yards add up throughout the game. Allen was good, but his lack of arm strength is a bit concerning- especially on those patterns outside the numbers.

 

For everyone who's not going to get too excited about a win over a Dallas team in shambles? I say be excited! Yes- we whooped a bad team, but we're 2-5 and in the thick of our division race. Four of our losses are against Arizona, Cleveland, LA Rams and Baltimore. Our fifth loss shouldn't have happened and the fact that we bounced back strong after a kick in the groin beat, tells me that Rivera's way is starting to take hold. 

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Est.1974

Est.1974

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7 hours ago, Nomadskin11 said:

 

@KDawg thanks always for these write ups, I enjoy them immensely.

 

I think there is indeed a two frownie today: DHop.

- very concerning that he has continued to be inconsistent even from very make-able range.

- even in a blowout, still want to see him make it

- nervous about him in close games. Had he hit the FG he missed in the Giants game, we might be talking about a 3-4 team riding tons of momentum

- guys in the locker room have it in the back of their minds I'm sure.

 

Unlikely we try to bring a new guy in, with so much else to worry about on the football side of things + covid.

 


Hopkins at 70% career success rate over 39 yards could be on the bubble.

 

Just looked at our practice squad kicker, Kaare Vedvik. Interesting time in the league, with the Ravens where he had zero chance of beating out Tucker, then traded to the Vikings for a 5th rounder. That’s high compensation in reality. He then got beat out by Bailey who made 93% of his kicks last year making him expendable in Minnesota.

 

Hopkins is a FA next year so that is also worth noting. 

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Panninho

Panninho

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10 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

What I can't believe (one of many things) about Dallas is that they hired Mike Nolan as their DC. Once I saw that, I was thrilled. The guy they had the past few years was actually very good. Nolan has been horrible throughout most of his career. I'm shocked, frankly, that he keeps finding jobs. While I hate the fact that Snyder gave him the "vanilla" treatment all those years ago, he really is a huge detriment to that team. Which is just awesome. 

It was also reported that Jim Haslett was in the mix for DC there, which is why I liked the McCarthy hire from the get go. You got to assume that even if they can Nolan, McCarthy will bring in the next horrible DC.

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Panninho

Panninho

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3 hours ago, wit33 said:


Are there examples of guys at RB who are bad with vision that improve this though?

 

Seems like something you have or don’t in most cases. Trying to think of RBs who became better with vision, but nothing off the top. 

 

 

In general I would agree but I think the biggest issue with Gibson is that he doesn't have the patience at the moment. And that is something that absolutely can come with experience. He had 33 carries as a RB in college. NFL speed must surely be overwhelming for someone who hasn't really settled into college speed. So, I think that once the game slows down for him he starts to get a better feel for where holes will open in the running game.

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method man

method man

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48 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Hopkins at 70% career success rate over 39 yards could be on the bubble.

 

Just looked at our practice squad kicker, Kaare Vedvik. Interesting time in the league, with the Ravens where he had zero chance of beating out Tucker, then traded to the Vikings for a 5th rounder. That’s high compensation in reality. He then got beat out by Bailey who made 93% of his kicks last year making him expendable in Minnesota.

 

Hopkins is a FA next year so that is also worth noting. 


The thing with NFL kickers is that they need a couple stops oftentimes before they figure it out. Gano and Koo are two good examples of this.

 

To your point, given Hop is a FA, we need to see what we have in Vedvik or someone else. If they don’t cut it, go after a Randy Bullock or someone of that ilk

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