carex Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 with this talk of all the guys after Lawrence and Fields having questions marks, and the way the last few drafts have panned out without the mega trades, isn't it just possible that Lance, Wilson and Trask all take big drops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, carex said: with this talk of all the guys after Lawrence and Fields having questions marks, and the way the last few drafts have panned out without the mega trades, isn't it just possible that Lance, Wilson and Trask all take big drops? I doubt Wilson falls. His skill set is tailor made for today's NFL. Lance seems a wildcard right now. Many have Trask anywhere from late first through the third round. So not sure you have any consensus on him from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Yeah I could see Lance falling due to lack of tape on him combined with playing in a small school conference...but who knows. The prospect of finding the "next Lamar Jackson" could make someone bite on him early. If Wilson keeps playing as he has been, I don't see a reason why he'd drop out of the top half of the 1st round. His main question marks would be his shoulder injury/surgery in the past and whether he was more a product of a really well designed system than being an elite QB. I don't buy that, but I've read that others might. I honestly doubt that many teams have Trask as a high 1st rounder right now. To me he's a 2nd round talent. But I know far less about QB scouting than those people who get paid to do it, so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, KDawg said: But they’ve been at least mediocre (better actually) for weeks now. Issue being Roullier and Scherff’s FA status. They fell apart when Lucas left. Looked absolutely terrible when they had to move Moses to LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mexican Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, justice98 said: If we want Mitch Trubisky or Jameis Winston or somebody. like that. Have you looked at the FA QB list? It's not good. You're more likely to find basically any other position in FA than you are to find a QB. You can't have desert before soup. You build a team core, then get the QB. Where is our core right now? No high-draft QB will ever save this team from mediocrity even if he's the Joe Montana 3.0. Haskins' fiasco should have made that abundantly clear. Trying to plug holes through FA has gotten us to where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: They fell apart when Lucas left. Looked absolutely terrible when they had to move Moses to LT Yeah. But he’s technically the backup. That’s gonna happen when a third string tackle comes in on most teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, El Mexican said: You can't have desert before soup. You build a team core, then get the QB. Where is our core right now? No high-draft QB will ever save this team from mediocrity even if he's the Joe Montana 3.0. Haskins' fiasco should have made that abundantly clear. Trying to plug holes through FA has gotten us to where we are. We had an excellent OL throughout the 2000s and where did that get us? If you need a QB and you have a chance to draft a blue chip prospect, you do it. No other position or single player on a football team has anything even close to the kind of impact that a top QB does. We also need to stop with the sunk costs fallacy of "Well we bombed on our QB picks in the past so let's not make the same mistake again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: We aren't going fill all our needs in one year. This is a 2-3 year process. I'm pretty sure I have been reading this post for the better part of 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I seriously doubt we end the season at 1/2. But if we stay put at #3, I’m going Sewell with supreme confidence. Can get a guy in the second, trade a ‘21 2nd to move up ( like Sweat) provided a guy falls, or wait a year and ride it out while we continue to build the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, El Mexican said: You can't have desert before soup. You build a team core, then get the QB. Where is our core right now? No high-draft QB will ever save this team from mediocrity even if he's the Joe Montana 3.0. Haskins' fiasco should have made that abundantly clear. Trying to plug holes through FA has gotten us to where we are. Using HASKINS as the reason a JOE MONTANA 3.0 (whatever that means) would fail is just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, El Mexican said: You can't have desert before soup. You build a team core, then get the QB. Where is our core right now? No high-draft QB will ever save this team from mediocrity even if he's the Joe Montana 3.0. Haskins' fiasco should have made that abundantly clear. Trying to plug holes through FA has gotten us to where we are. I'm not gonna say "you do this" or "you do that", there's more than one way to skin a cat. However, the QB is the hardest position in pro sports to get, you don't put that off for the future because the future may never come. If there's a guy now, you secure that guy and fill in around him. You dont say, "we'll put a pin in QB this year and get whoever we can in 2022 or 2023". You can plug in guards and TEs, you can't plug in the QB. Now, if there's no QB you love, that's a separate conversation. My position has always been to not blame the idea of free agency. It's been bad people picking bad players. We haven't had a competent GM in, what, 30+ years? It's the jabronies picking the players, not the concept of free agency as a tool. Like, at LB, for instance, we tried to plug holes with journeyman and backup special teamers. A good GM doesn't do that. We dont have a GM at all. Not to mention, QB is only one pick. Taking a QB in the first or 2nd doesnt preclude you from otherwise building through the draft. It's one selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Warhead36 said: Scherff is good to very good but is he going to be worth the money he'll want and get? He ain't Zack Martin or Quentin Nelson. I want to keep him but for the amount he'll get we could probably get two decent linemen and our OL as a whole would be better. I've been saying for a while, that you can get Warford for half of what Scherff will command based off his asking price before he opted out. I'd do that in a minute. He was only asking for around $7mil/yr. Sign another OL with the other half of what you woulda paid Scherff and draft an OL in the first few rounds and there's your scenario played out. If we're at the top of the 1st and 2nd, we should land a pretty good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, justice98 said: Like, at LB, for instance, we tried to plug holes with journeyman and backup special teamers. A good GM doesn't do that. We dont have a GM at all. Id argue that we hit on KPL, and hit on Holcomb with a 5th. That’s not bad at all. Maybe Rueben Foster makes it back next year. Bostic has been rough. It happens. 2/3 ain’t bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoggingGod Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 It's kind of infuriating how many people underestimate the impact of a franchise QB, even with all these young guys elevating their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 hours ago, El Mexican said: You can't have desert before soup. You build a team core, then get the QB. Where is our core right now? No high-draft QB will ever save this team from mediocrity even if he's the Joe Montana 3.0. Haskins' fiasco should have made that abundantly clear. Trying to plug holes through FA has gotten us to where we are. Again I invite you to look at what happened with Cleveland, Arizona and Cincinnati, we may shortly add Miami to that list as well. All of these teams fortunes changed immediately after taking a QB high If WFT builds the team and improves they may never pick this high again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, JoggingGod said: It's kind of infuriating how many people underestimate the impact of a franchise QB, even with all these young guys elevating their teams. it's kind of infuriating seeing so many people assume the guy we pick would be a franchise QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoggingGod Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, carex said: it's kind of infuriating seeing so many people assume the guy we pick would be a franchise QB Nice strawman. Nobody said that. You have to keep taking chances until you find your guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, JoggingGod said: Nice strawman. Nobody said that. You have to keep taking chances until you find your guy. Exactly. That was a classic straw man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, JoggingGod said: It's kind of infuriating how many people underestimate the impact of a franchise QB, even with all these young guys elevating their teams. Yep. And people forget that we've built good supporting casts before. This isn't like Field of Dreams -- you build it and they will come. Hardest thing in the NFL is to find a franchise QB. On Gibbs' return we built a good running game, offensive line and defense. Yet the team went under 500. Why? Because Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell weren't very good. If you have a shot to get a franchise Qb because you are unqiuely picking high and its a stacked draft for Qbs, you grab one. I wouldn't force it but if i loved a QB, I'd grab them. These guys are a mile harder to find than a LG, MLB or name that position. If any organization knows that its us. Rivera isn't a dummy. If they thought Haskins was a stud but just needed a supporting cast, then he'd patiently work it, just like the Cards did with Murray. Clearly, they don't think Haskins is the answer and not because of his supporting cast but because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoggingGod Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Like come on. Saying that prime Joe Montana wouldn't change this team is ridiculous. The league is incredibly QB and high efficiency passing oriented right now. The days of journeymen being carried by their run game and defense to a championship are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yep. And people forget that we've built good supporting casts before. This isn't like Field of Dreams -- you build it and they will come. Hardest thing in the NFL is to find a franchise QB. On Gibbs' return we built a good running game, offensive line and defense. Yet the team went under 500. Why? Because Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell weren't very good. If you have a shot to get a franchise Qb because you are unqiuely picking high and its a stacked draft for Qbs, you grab one. I wouldn't force it but if i loved a QB, I'd grab them. These guys are a mile harder to find than a LG, MLB or name that position. If any organization knows that its us. Rivera isn't a dummy. If they thought Haskins was a stud but just needed a supporting cast, then he'd patiently work it, just like the Cards did with Murray. Clearly, they don't think Haskins is the answer and not because of his supporting cast but because of him. We had one or zero quality WRs those years and OLs that were at best 3/5s complete. We were terrible at guard for years. On defense we had decent pass rushers but no, or limited interior linemen(how long did we have no NT?) and when we went to the 3-4 a lot of time our ILBs weren't great. We were also weak at safety for years. We never truly built GOOD supporting casts, they were adequate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, carex said: We had one or zero quality WRs those years and OLs that were at best 3/5s complete. We were terrible at guard for years. On defense we had decent pass rushers but no, or limited interior linemen(how long did we have no NT?) and when we went to the 3-4 a lot of time our ILBs weren't great. We were also weak at safety for years. We never truly built GOOD supporting casts, they were adequate Santana, Cooley, Randle El, Portis, and one of the better O lines in the league. We had with the exception of one year top defenses, too, then. Maybe not killer everywhere but pretty good. The idea of having killer receivers, killer running game, killer O line and killer defenses all at the same time is a wild fantasy. When you build good supporting casts -- it doesn't mean everywhere and everything. Not in the era of the cap. You will have weaknesses and imperfections no matter how much you blow off upgrading the Qb spot and focusing on everything else. but I'll play along lets say the complement to Santana Moss was Calvin Johnson, instead of Randle El or whomever was playing as the #2. IMO Jason Campbell wasn't taking us to the promised land. Terrible at guard? Randy Thomas? Pete Kendall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sellersfan Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Santana, Cooley, Randle El, Portis, and one of the better O lines in the league. We had with the exception of one year top defenses, too, then. Maybe not killer everywhere but pretty good. The idea of having killer receivers, killer running game, killer O line and killer defenses all at the same time is a wild fantasy. When you build good supporting casts -- it doesn't mean everywhere and everything. Not in the era of the cap. You will have weaknesses and imperfections no matter how much you blow off upgrading the Qb spot and focusing on everything else. but I'll play along lets say the complement to Santana Moss was Calvin Johnson, instead of Randle El or whomever was playing as the #2. IMO Jason Campbell wasn't taking us to the promised land. Terrible at guard? Randy Thomas? Pete Kendall? You lost me at Randle El. He was good not great. A gadget guy with the Steelers who was brutal as a return guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mexican Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Again I invite you to look at what happened with Cleveland, Arizona and Cincinnati, we may shortly add Miami to that list as well. All of these teams fortunes changed immediately after taking a QB high If WFT builds the team and improves they may never pick this high again. Sample size is too small right now. Not enough games have been played to elevate those teams from perennial bottom dwellers to contenders. Until then, we'll see. All I'm reading from various posters around here is that the "right" QB will change the entire franchise. Yeah right. Keep spicing that kool aid. Years of mediocrity do not vanish with one notable player at QB. Not here at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sellersfan said: You lost me at Randle El. He was good not great. A gadget guy with the Steelers who was brutal as a return guy. If you are focused on Randle El then you missed my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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