A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I agree with that, but how any of those top brass FO guys are willing to come here with the reputation Dan and the team have?

Most likely underpaid, poor facilities, poor work environment, lots of not football related noise surrounding the team.

 

And the owner has a reputation of meddling with the picks during the draft. I would bet those guys would not allow that in any way.

 

So, even if he did try it, chances of success would probably be close to null. Everything about this team screams to stay away from this team.

 

Yeah again I always put it on Dan first but the one reason why i like to say Bruce was the perfect storm to team up with Dan to bury the franchise is that Dan-Vinny could cheat the system a little by being a bit wild and interesting in how they went about their failures and would land some sexy targets at least perception wise -- and land both coaches and players by overpaying them.  They lost but did so with a little flash.  If you recall back then the league was supposedly pissed that Dan overpayed assistant coaches like Gregg Williams to keep him in the fold.

 

Race forward to Bruce and their reputation was all of sudden still being losers, even bigger losers but also doing it while being cheap with no sexiness to their approach -- boredom with an amped up version of smugness and sleaziness.  And yeah they turned from the team that overpaid to a team that had their Team President gloating about how he got Brian Quick at a good deal and how they are winning off the field.  They gained the reputation of being the lowest bidder let alone anymore being the highest bidder.  The era of Kendell Reyes.  And losing assistant coaches like A. Pleasant to the Rams because they were too cheap to pay him.  And articles talked about how this was the last place that scouts wanted to go to because of how cheap they were as to salaries and because of Bruce's interference. 

 

So yeah this organization is known for losing, being cheap, sleazy and having everything 2nd class and 2nd rate just about.    Ron is arguably keeping the ship afloat because he's everything Dan is not -- competent, classy, and liked around the league.  Some want to see Dan to fire Ron and expect him to land name that big fish.  IMO fat chance that happens.  If the most unliked owner in the NFL fires one of the most liked coaches -- good luck attracting anyone that's even a little in demand.  Dan likely would have to offer something crazy in that context, maybe like the 10 year contract that Gruden got.  But I think Dan is too cheap to do that no matter how desperate he is. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

18 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I think he values the Coach centric model because he can "sell" it. You see that guy on the sidelines every week. You cant do the same with a GM but I think hes utterly detached at how much the fan base would love the GM approach. Dan has always been exceedingly cheap on things that get zero immediate ROI on. He can get an ROI on players because he can sell the jersey but its completely over his head that if you have the greatest scouting staff and support staff once you acquire the players you can have more of those players to sell jerseys. Its part of the reason that the team has had one of the worst weight rooms and scouting staffs in the league. Hell I remember an interview from Jay in like 2016 at the combine saying "we just got film on individual players this past season" Like we had to scout players watching game tape of the whole game and then had to figure out if the guy they wanted to watch was on the actual field. 

 

They were one of the smallest spenders on anayltics until recently.  Had one of the smallest scouting staffs until recently and its still not large like the Ravens, etc.

 

I think Dan deep down believes the same thing that some do on this board which is that the draft is as simple as reading off of scout.com on ESPN.  Just watch a little college football, and see who Riddick, Brugler or whomever plugs and go get that guy, its not much more complicated than that.  The one example that sticks to me is his scouting staff didn't care for Haskins.  But Dan loved him from watching college football and according to Keim he would tell people at Redskins Park during the college season that Haskins was the best player in college. 

 

Piercing together different narratives, it feels like the other narrative was he got Doug Williams to agree with him and Louis Riddick told him he was right and his scouting staff was wrong about Haskins, so he overrides them.  His medical staff told him Malcom Kelly was a ticking time bomb health wise and his scouts were pushing Jordy Nelson -- yet Dan scouted Kelly himself and felt everyone else is wrong. 

He IMO doesn't get that the best teams have the best scouts and dedicate serious resources to the front office.    And he doesn't understand his own instincts suck.  He finds someone who agrees with him and feels validated to interfere.  It's a sad vicious cycle. 

 

Those familiar with the team’s inner workings say there’s not necessarily a problem with the structure, but rather that those tapped to do their jobs frequently are not allowed to do them.

A former member of the Redskins’ personnel department said Snyder’s involvement with the football operation typically outmatches his football expertise.“He can’t ever get it right because he wants to be involved in it all,” he said. “He wants to have input in everything.”

Several employees said that while Snyder likes to ask questions, he does not always seem receptive to advice. Many relationships with other NFL teams are strained, they say, and he has insulated himself from pushback and dissenting opinions.

“I think there’s a fundamental flaw with who he surrounds himself with,” said one former coach. “Dan’s not very open to receiving negative feedback.”

 

Shanahan hoped to acquire Marc Bulger, then the St. Louis Rams quarterback, according to two people familiar with the situation, but Snyder pushed hard for the higher profile and more marketable McNabb. The owner cut short a family vacation in the Turks and Caicos Islands to meet his new quarterback.

One constant theme of Snyder’s ownership from the beginning has been complaints from staff about the owner’s involvement with players and the relationships he cultivates with them. Even as he ceded a significant amount of authority to Shanahan these past four years, Snyder, like many NFL owners, will never be entirely absent from big decisions, others warn.

 

“New coaches come in excited because they think they have the support of an owner who wants to win. But they soon find out Snyder is all about making a big splash,” one former assistant coach said.

 

Two of his more celebrated coaching hires were Shanahan and Schottenheimer. Both were given control of team personnel, something Snyder is said to have regretted in the case of Schottenheimer, who was fired after just one season.

 

“At the end of the year, Dan told me he wasn’t having any fun. He wanted control back,” one former employee said. “That, I think, was at the heart of the thing. It’s like working for a plumbing company and always looking over your shoulder and hearing, ‘Don’t do that with the elbow joint.’ Unless you’re a plumber, don’t tell the plumber how to do his job.”

 

The owner’s influence has stretched at times into the locker room, perhaps most notably with former running back Clinton Portis. The two still chat often, and Portis said Snyder even sent him a text message last Wednesday at 12:01 a.m. wishing his former star player a happy new year.

 

...Prior to Shanahan, Snyder played a much more active role in the draft process, even traveling at times with his personnel officials to scout college players. In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. “Then he wanted Teddy Ginn,” an Ohio State wide receiver. Quinn has played for five teams in seven seasons, while Ginn has started just five games in the past four years.

 

The next season, still in need of a wide receiver, the team targeted Oklahoma’s Malcolm Kelly in the second round, though the medical staff had major health concerns. When they took Michigan State wideout Devin Thomas 34th overall before nabbing Kelly 17 picks later, they passed on Jordy Nelson, whom several others in the football operation preferred, according to someone who was with the team at the time.

 

Hobbled by knee problems for two seasons, Kelly was released in 2011 after posting just 28 receptions. In six seasons with the Green Bay Packers since going 36th overall in the draft, Nelson has 302 catches for 4,590 yards and 36 touchdowns. This season, Nelson had career highs with 85 receptions for 1,314 yards.

 

“It’s hard to say that anyone can restrain him when he wants to do something,” said one former Snyder employee, who’d worked at Snyder Communications, of the Redskins owner. “You cannot stop impulsive people from doing what they want to do.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

Edited May 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Cooleyfan1993]

Oh god @Skinsinparadise i forgot all about Brian Quick….why? Why’d you have to bring him up? If i get drunk tonight it’s your fault. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

That 2012 was magical. After 12 years of misery; you really felt that finally we had arrived. That 2012 season was going be start of us finally becoming a competitive team. Regular playoffs and maybe a SuperBowl. Of course, that came crashing down in Seattle.

 

I don’t get feeling now; even if this team in some aspects is better than that team.

 

We have a big question at QB. Will Carson revive his career and become a franchise QB that his earlier career showed promise for? Will he show he’s a bust, that his last 2 years and 2 teams leads you to believe?

 

Also, I don’t visions of being a consistent contender and dreaming about SuperBowls with this team. If we have a good season; fully expect a non playoff season in 23.

So magical. 

 

Honestly that gave me so much hope overall. I got too far on board the Bruce train when I thought it was more of a Bruce vs Dan thing but it did give me hope that we could win even with Dan. I honestly thought we had a NFL MVP type QB here. And I still think that if he would have stayed with that system we'd have (had) a team closer to the Ravens today, that's assuming he recovered from his injury and a bunch of ego things didn't happen.

[duffy]

Just read they're bringing back the marching band. Very happy to hear that however, this must mean some bad news is about to drop...

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, duffy said:

Just read they're bringing back the marching band. Very happy to hear that however, this must mean some bad news is about to drop...

Dan tried to get compromising info on Roger- wouldn’t shock me one bit if that actually happened.

[Rocky21]

11 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Oh god @Skinsinparadise i forgot all about Brian Quick….why? Why’d you have to bring him up? If i get drunk tonight it’s your fault. 

Plus Devin Thomas and The Comb ! 😄

[goskins10]

 

It seems every year about this team, a few people (admittedly less each year) bring up the "well all owners are ****" argument about Dan Snyder. All I can say is please just stop, again! Yes, many billionaires can be pretty ****ty people. But if you really think the only reason Dan looks worse is due to unfair media or a pissed off fan base due to losing then you have just not been paying attention. And it's by no means limited to football. 

 

Dan takes being a sleaze ball to a new level both in football and out of football. Let's start with this gem: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/26/daniel-snyder-nfl-washington/

Not all owners are even a majority have this kind of toxic work atmosphere. In fact almost none except Dan - how do I know that? Because there is no way they keep this hidden this a long after dan's ignorance was exposed. There would have been a long line of me too's. I live in Atlanta and Author Blank is a very good owner at least off the field. You can question some of his football moves but I could live with that. He is a genuinely good man off the field. .There is Steelers ownership and many others who you never hear any of this crap and players love to play there. 

 

Here is another nice one documenting even more corruption: https://sportsnaut.com/daniel-snyder-forced-to-sell-washington-commanders/

 

Here is a nice laundry list of dysfunction. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/daniel-snyder-washington-football-team-timeline/193z6ghhzskkb1vbqskgvzucmr

 

The fact he has not been removed says there are enough owners scared of what he will expose if he is removed. Fair enough. However, let's not pretend that it's the "same". These false equivalencies drive me nuts. Dan Snyder is the worst owner is sports right now and and even worse human being. In addition to the articles above I have met enough former players in social settings that I have gotten stories supporting that position that there is no way anyone con convince me Dan "while yes he is a POS, he is no worse than the rest, he is just being picked on". Anyone holding any water for him even just to the point of saying well he is just like the rest really needs to pay more attention. 

[Zim489]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

IMO doesn't get that the best teams have the best scouts and dedicate serious resources to the front office.    And he doesn't understand his own instincts suck.  He finds someone who agrees with him and feels validated to interfere.  It's a sad vicious cycle. 

I think the larger issue that he doesn’t understand the every year you can’t compete. If a move might make the team take a step back one year but moves 3 steps ahead the next he won’t do it. 
 

Ultimately I think all it takes is just the one perfect horrible season whwre we get our QB

Edited May 8, 2022 by Zim489

[SkinsFTW]

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think the larger issue that he doesn’t understand the every year you can’t compete. If a move might make the team take a step back one year but moves 3 steps ahead the next he won’t do it. 

 

No not even remotely close.

 

The fact that he can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar despite 20 years of proof that he is an idiot is the actual problem. He's hired people to do the job yet he believes that they need his input on things that he has no clue about. 

 

And I've been saying this for 15 or so years already. He just doesn't give up. It's complete buffoonery yet it might never end!!!

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

38 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

every year you can’t compete.

Sums up Dan’s ownership pretty succinctly.

[Wildbunny]

25 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

The fact that he can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar despite 20 years of proof that he is an idiot is the actual problem.

Problem with idiots is that they are idiots and thus aren't bright enough to learn how to not be an idiot anymore.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

18 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

No not even remotely close.

 

The fact that he can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar despite 20 years of proof that he is an idiot is the actual problem. He's hired people to do the job yet he believes that they need his input on things that he has no clue about. 

 

And I've been saying this for 15 or so years already. He just doesn't give up. It's complete buffoonery yet it might never end!!!

 

You're right. Take a look at the next owner of the Washington Commanders after Dan Snyder passes away in 2050:

 

 

Say hello to Gerry Snyder!

[FrFan]

Edited May 9, 2022 by FrFan

[Voice_of_Reason]

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

[88Comrade2000]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

We won’t find out probably until after Ron’s tenure is over.

[Zim489]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

Think the only thing we can say with decent possibility is being pushed to give Dwayne a shot 

[Voice_of_Reason]

42 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Think the only thing we can say with decent possibility is being pushed to give Dwayne a shot 

I mean, maybe, but that's also all been speculation I believe. Unless I missed a report on it.  I know Sheehan tried to talk that into existence.  But I don't recall (and it's possible I missed it, so this is a legitimate question) if Ron ever said that he was asked by Dan to give Dwayne a shot.

 

(As an aside, I always get the squishies talking about Haskins.  What happened to him is an unmitigated tragedy.  So, as always, this is not piling on in any way.  It's just "what happened.")  

 

I do think it is reasonable to think, however, that Dwayne was going to get a shot regardless, though.  He was the 15th overall pick, Ron did say that the Panthers had a first round grade on him (that could have been a lie, who knows), and he said he was impressed with a few of the late season performances.

 

If you think back to the 2020 off-season, we didn't really know at that time Dwayne was going to have the types of issues he ended up having.  First, and I'm sure Ron knew this, he was drafted into about the worst situation you could possibly imagine.  Granted, that's Dan's fault, but Dwayne was the recipient of that bad situation.  I'm not even going to say Jay didn't want him, or the football people didn't want him, but they couldn't use him, because they had to win.  So he was basically sidelined from the beginning.  

 

He was forced into action before he was ready, didn't play really well, and it wasn't until the end of the season when he started to play well, and he DID play well the last couple games of the season.

 

So, I'm sure Ron saw flashes and said, "maybe there's a chance here.  We just need to put him in a better situation."

 

Second, Haskins had a ton of talent.  And they just spent a 1st round pick on him, and Ron also knew it was going to be a development year.  So, it's very possible he wanted to know what he had in Dwayne, so they could make a decision. 

 

Third, Ron took the job basically knowing they were taking Chase Young at #2.  They weren't going to get Burrow, he was going #1 overall, and Tua had serious questions.  It wasn't absolutely apparent at that moment Dwayne could NOT be a franchise QB.  In a lot of ways, he had a similar end of the season to Justin Fields.  Played ok in some games, bad situation, and now they have a new coach. 

 

So I'm sure Ron WANTED Dwayne to be the guy, because that meant the solution was already on the roster. 

 

Then COVID hit, and changed everything.  Because my belief is if Ron had had a chance to work with Dwayne through the off-season program, he might not have gotten the shot.  But by the time training camp rolled around, Ron had to give Dwayne all the reps, and at least start him a few games because that was the only thing to do.

 

So, do I think through the interview process Dan said to Ron, "Look, he's a good kid.  He's got a lot of talent.  He just needs an opportunity."  I absolutely do.  However, I also believe in Ron's eyes, that opportunity could have been to go into the off-season program as the #1, and see what happens.  But, there wasn't an off-season program because of COVID.

 

Again, if there is other reporting, then I stand corrected.  But I don't think we've heard anything other than Ron liked some of what he saw, that he needed to develop as a leader, and that Ron said he had to give Dwayne all the reps in Training Camp, but when it was clear it wasn't going to work, he pulled the plug.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

We won’t find out probably until after Ron’s tenure is over.

Ok, that's fair, but there have been NO rumblings about it, and also, are there any "Dan" type moves that raise eyebrows?  I can't think of any.  

 

The one thing which has been bandied about (though without any real evidence) is that Dan doesn't have the kind of cash to throw around, so maybe that is hamstringing the football guys.  But that isn't necessarily interference.  It's more "facts of life."

 

Again, there is NO QUESTION it happened in the past.  As recently as making the decision to pick Haskins in 2019 for no particular good reason.  

 

But since Ron has been here, I can't think of a move or anything that says "well, that seems like it's out of the old Dan playbook." 

 

It's possible that Dan is actually staying out of things for a change.  He didn't really give Mike the opportunity, he and Bruce manufactured the trade for McNugget right out the gate.  He saddled Jay with Griffin, and then Haskins. 

 

IF the Commanders had gone all-in on Watson the way the Browns did, I would have said that was all 100% Dan.  But they didn't.  

 

For now, however, it seems as though he's being completely hands off.  If Ron fails, I think it's going to be on Ron.  

 

Again, that's conjecture based on lack of reporting and also lack of evidence of anything which seems like Dan would have interest in.  He seems to have interest in QBs and splash players.  Unless you want to say Fuller, Samuel and WJIII are splash players, or even Wentz, there have been no splash players signings under Ron.  They did try for Stafford and Dallas WR who's name escapes me.  But Dan would have found a way to close those deals. 

 

Shrug.  We'll see.  I think he's giving Ron the reins for now.  We'll see if that changes.  

[NewCliche21]

On 5/8/2022 at 6:43 AM, Rocky21 said:

Plus Devin Thomas and The Comb ! 😄

 

I remember the hype about BUT WE HAVE THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS!!!!!!!!!!

 

Three swings, three misses (though I really think Fred Davis could've been something).

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 5/8/2022 at 6:43 AM, Rocky21 said:

Plus Devin Thomas and The Comb ! 😄

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

There's never any evidence of it, unless an entire coaching staff is about to get fired and it comes out that they and the scouts didn't want anything to do with Haskins. 

 

For many years almost the entire ES board believed that McNugget was the QB that Shanahan wanted, (He supposedly had full control but then he benched his ass midseason). I laughed at that signing. No way that was Shanahan. ES loved it and I have no idea why. When a team trades their star QB (who replacement QB's outperformed in Philly) to a division rival there's something wrong.

 

RG3 for 3 firsts was supposedly Shanahans pick, etc. Makes no sense!  Scot, who no other team wanted even as a scout, has full control (yeah buddy that's believable), on and on and on.

 

Why believe that anything has changed? Maybe it has for now (the past year or so) because of the heat on his ass, and maybe he just drops hints and asks Ron what he thinks about the Shiny New Toy that Dan is drooling over but it's not going to last! Nobody is going to be surprised the next time Doofus Dan throws an obvious pipe wrench in and we find out he has been doing it the entire time.

 

It's what he has done since the beginning.  Jeff George and the 2000 Dream Team. Then he hires Schottenheimer, gives him full control, then fires him because Dan wasn't having fun! We were winning, finished the season strong, but it just wasn't fun watching somebody else making all of the decisions. Then he hires Spurrier, makes him the highest paid coach in NFL history, but Dan decides that he should choose his QB for him! Hilarious!

 

Then he does the same kind of **** with Gibbs with Vinny the Clown and him going after the 5000 page playbook guy. Then Zorn (hilarious hire, couldn't believe that I was actually supporting Fassel or Dennis Green but Zorn???). Then Shanny (who I hated as a hire), then Gruden, Bruce, McCloughan, etc!

 

It Never Ends!

 

It is quite entertaining though if you stop being a fan and take it as the NFL version of the Jerry Springer Show and just sit back and laugh! That's been my level of fandom since about the time Gibbs retired and they hired Jim ****ing Zorn!!!

 

Oh, it's a comedy! Get a bucket of popcorn and laugh! 

 

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[NewCliche21]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

 

I think the interference can be unintended and simply fallout radiation from his previous meltdowns.

Like he may not say a word, but his history just says that he will have an opinion that will affect your employment status. So it can be subconscious and still be impactful.  Or he can have mentioned a name or asked a question about a player, and that can be all it takes for Ron or anyone else to begin to erode the wall that Dan may even genuinely believe to be there.

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence Dan is interfering right now, since he hired Ron, in the football ops?  Honest question, I haven't heard it reported at all.

 

There's no question he WAS prior, but is he NOW is the question.  And he might AGAIN, but I'm most interested in what is going on now.

 

Does it really matter? Does it change what a complete POS he is and an embarrassment to humanity? I could care less at this point if he never touches the football operations again. He is low life piece of trash that needs to be taken out (figuratively and only as owner of the team, not suggesting any violence). 

 

Honest question, not trying to be a jerk: Would it change your mind about him? If not, then to me it's irrelevant. But that's just me. 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Think the only thing we can say with decent possibility is being pushed to give Dwayne a shot 

No coach was going to be hired without giving Dwayne a shot. Interference in a way but more of a condition of employment.