A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[CRobi21]

 

[method man]

6 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

LOL. I don't think you understand how coaches pay works. 

I don’t think you do. There is an offset mechanism. They can pay Reich below market rate because Reich knows the balance would be owed to him by the Colts

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think you missed my point.

 

As people, McDaniels and Rivera are different. So, the conversation flow built on that narrative.

 

I said I thought it would be a major transition for the players to go from Rivera to McDaniel. Someone countered that didn’t matter. I responded that it did, because coaches only get so long and can’t turn over an entire roster. 
 

McDaniels may get fired after a season in Miami. I think that’s nuts, to be honest. But it illustrates my point.

 

You using Flores = Rivera isn’t lost on me. McDaniel had success early coming in and taking Flores’ spot so he could do the same here. Yeah. Maybe. 
 

I’m not sure. I like the guy, actually. I find is humor and approach with the media to be hilarious. 
 

But to the idea that not Rivera = Bad as your post reads, I don’t think that’s what anyone involved in this convo thinks. 
 

It means exactly as it reads: McDaniel and Rivera are polar opposites in style.

 

Thats all that means.

 

Thr irony is at best McDaniel will match Flores record last year, or finish one game worse.  I get the point that Flores = Rivera in that they are ex-defensive coordinators and physically look more like head coaches. 

 

Not a ton of parallels otherwise.  Flores has the reputation of being an A-hole -- bad cop type, the local Dolphin beat reporters talk about how he berated them and behind the scenes he has quite the mean streak.  Rivera is known to be a super nice guy -- good cop type.  Flores is more like an Parcells personality than anything close to Rivera,

 

But agree with the overall point that McDaniel and Rivera are very different.  I'd take that point further and say he's very different from just about every coach.

 

My favorite analogy to him, is its like having the geeky scrawny nerdy kid who sits in the back of the room, run your high school football team.  I am not saying it can't work out.  But for me, I'd want to see more of a sample size.  It's not like it's been 100% smooth sailing for McDaniel in season 1.  And the best he can do record wise is match his predecessor and that's with expending major draft capital to get the best WR in the league.

 

I am not out on McDaniel as a prospect.  But for me its definitely not a no brainer.  But back to Rivera-McDaniel -- I think they are actually closer ironically at least personality wise versus McDaniel-Flores.  McDaniel and Rivera play the good cop.  But they are different big time in other ways.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thr irony is at best McDaniel will match Flores record last year, or finish one game worse.  I get the point that Flores = Rivera in that they are ex-defensive coordinators and physically look more like head coaches. 

 

Not a ton of parallels otherwise.  Flores has the reputation of being an A-hole -- bad cop type, the local Dolphin beat reporters talk about how he berated them and behind the scenes he has quite the mean streak.  Rivera is known to be a super nice guy -- good cop type.  Flores is more like an Parcells personality than anything close to Rivera,

 

But agree with the overall point that McDaniel and Rivera are very different.  I'd take that point further and say he's very different from just about every coach.

 

My favorite analogy to him, is its like having the geeky scrawny nerdy kid who sits in the back of the room, run your high school football team.  I am not saying it can't work out.  But for me, I'd want to see more of a sample size.  It's not like it's been 100% smooth sailing for McDaniel in season 1.  And the best he can do record wise is match his predecessor and that's with expending major draft capital to get the best WR in the league.

 

I am not out on McDaniel as a prospect.  But for me its definitely not a no brainer.  But back to Rivera-McDaniel -- I think they are actually closer ironically at least personality wise versus McDaniel-Flores.  McDaniel and Rivera play the good cop.  But they are different big time in other ways.

 

 

 

I agree. 
 

McDaniel and Rivera are both “players” coaches. But that’s where the similarity ends. Folks can use the “this is a professional organization. The players need to buy in or get out” but it’s not that simple.

 

First, our OC is under fire from our players at the moment. Professionals can dislike direction or results or methodology. Acting like people who are professionals don’t get upset is a strange take to me. 
 

I don’t like that this is coming out publicly. This stuff should always be done in house. 

 

But let’s say the organization felt that those players thoughts don’t matter. What are their choices?

 

1) Release the entirety of the folks that don’t like it. This can’t happen for obvious reasons: salary cap, roster size, dead costs, etc.

 

2) Fire the coach. This is a more likely take as it’s easier to replace one coach where there is no salary cap vs. several players.

 

3) Wait it out. Dangerous. Morale can tank. But in some circumstances things do improve. 
 

So, in hiring a guy like McDaniel, you want to do your due diligence with the players as frustrated players aren’t exactly a “brush it off” scenario. But I think it’s necessary to get a feel from players with every HC hire. Not a definitive, make your decision entirely on them feel. But getting a read on their thoughts, understanding if potential issues can arise, doing diligence in working away around it, etc.

 

McDaniel is an acquired taste. He is a different dude. That does not make him bad. That does not mean hiring him is a mistake. It just means that due diligence has to be paid before hiring him (or anyone).

 

The contrast between he and Rivera in tone and personality can be very jarring. Again, that isn’t to say you don’t hire McDaniel. I want to stress that. But the players need to have a voice in the conversation.

 

Whether you listen or not is set by the players thoughts. If they are kind of “meh” but aren’t out and respect him as a coach then you probably hire him if he’s your top guy.

 

If they are out on him (or anyone) completely you probably don’t. 
 

Most likely the players here would welcome a guy that has schemes that are fun, exciting and capitalize on each players strengths and weaknesses. But that’s not a definitive thing. 
 

Due diligence is always important in all critical decisions in life and business. 
 

And empowering folks in your employ creates a sense of accountability and ownership that helps develop strong cultures. Ignoring your people completely and doing what YOU alone think is best is grounds for toxic cultures to take root.

Edited January 8, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Whether you listen or not is set by the players thoughts. If they are kind of “meh” but aren’t out and respect him as a coach then you probably hire him if he’s your top guy.

 

If they are out on him (or anyone) completely you probably don’t. 
 

Most likely the players here would welcome a guy that has schemes that are fun, exciting and capitalize on each players strengths and weaknesses. But that’s not a definitive thing. 
 

Due diligence is always important in all critical decisions in life and business. 

 

Agree.  I am making the same human point factor in a different way but pretty close to the same way you are saying it.  That is, the human factor is a factor in coaching according to people around the game.  The personality-leadership-ability to connect to players matter.  Context matters. 

 

When you are winning or its a new journey with a coach, its almost always celebrated at that time. 

 

I don't coach sports but I am in a busineses with wins-and losses and usually have multiple people serving roles and often one person in charge, political consulting.

 

When things are going good -- the honeymoon is fun, we are all celebrated including for our quirky ways, ditto when we are just hired.  But when things don't go well, our quirks are then often used against us.

 

The only reason why I mentioned the South Florida media in that context, isn't that i care what they think but their coverage of McDaniel has been textbook on that point.  When he was hired, the dude was wonderful.  When he was winning, his quirks were celebrated.  When he started losing, his quirks were weaponized against him. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

10 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

 

 

 

At first I was looking at this open mouthed and wondering why all you vile dispicable people were laughing at birthday boy Ron. 😉

 

Then my old man early morning pre-caffeinated  blood finally got up to my brain pan and I saw the question mark and realized the facial expression context ("Uh...you mean we could be eliminated today?") and  it finally registered as pure comedic genius. lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Sean Payton just said as for what he looks for as to his next destination.
 

Most important he said is ownership, then mentioned FO. And said that’s more important to him than the roster including QB.

 

Add Payton to the pile that ownership is the most important thing, most here I know agree, a few stragglers don’t 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sean Payton just said as for what he looks for as to his next destination.
 

Most important he said is ownership, then mentioned FO. And said that’s more important to him than the roster including QB.

 

Add Payton to the pile that ownership is the most important thing, most here I know agree, a few stragglers don’t 

Agree totally about ownership being the primary factor that coaches with any sort of resume and are coveted look for. Was hoping during that segment for a little insider info from Glazer but Washington wasn't even mentioned during the potential coaching vacancy possibilities. Seems more and more that the sale is being held very close to the vest.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Agree totally about ownership being the primary factor that coaches with any sort of resume and are coveted look for. Was hoping during that segment for a little insider info from Glazer but Washington wasn't even mentioned during the potential coaching vacancy possibilities. Seems more and more that the sale is being held very close to the vest.

yeah all I care is sell the team please 

 

though I admit I am warming up to the idea of leaving us with Tuddy might be Dan’s greatest legacy 

 

[Chris 44]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

yeah all I care is sell the team please 

 

though I admit I am warming up to the idea of leaving us with Tuddy might be Dan’s greatest legacy 

 

Im hoping that the end of the season for the team (final whistle tonight) is the trigger for news coming out about the sale. Decor of not releasing info during the season being all that has held more info being leaked out so far. No reason for anyone to play nice after tonight.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Chris 44

[profusion]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

yeah all I care is sell the team please 

 

though I admit I am warming up to the idea of leaving us with Tuddy might be Dan’s greatest legacy 

 

 

Nothing screams football dominance like a pig wearing what looks like a hardhat and sporting a generous spare tire.

 

The empty seats behind Tuddy are Dan's true legacy.

[RansomthePasserby]

Just now, Chris 44 said:

Im hoping that the end of the season for the team (final whistle tonight) is the trigger for news coming out about the sale. Decor of not releasing info during the season being all that has held more info being leaked out so far. No reason for anyone to pay nice after tonight.

Yup if the sale moves quickly after this game, losing to the Cowboys will feel like winning the Superbowl. 

1 minute ago, profusion said:

 

Nothing screams football dominance like a pig wearing what looks like a hardhat and sporting a generous spare tire.

 

The empty seats behind Tuddy are Dan's true legacy.

Haha and the logo isn’t even centered on the pig’s face. Looks so sloppy. 

[profusion]

5 minutes ago, RansomthePasserby said:

Yup if the sale moves quickly after this game, losing to the Cowboys will feel like winning the Superbowl. 

Haha and the logo isn’t even centered on the pig’s face. Looks so sloppy. 

 

Are you saying that Tanya isn't a top-notch designer?

[Barry.Randolphe]

Hypothetical situation: what if McVay decides to step away and take a year off from coaching? We roll with Ron for next season while new ownership takes over. Would you be up for trying to bring back McVay to lead us in our rebuild under Lord Bezos?

 

Me - 100% yes

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

Hypothetical situation: what if McVay decides to step away and take a year off from coaching? We roll with Ron for next season while new ownership takes over. Would you be up for trying to bring back McVay to lead us in our rebuild under Lord Bezos?

 

Me - 100% yes

 

One thing I haven't seen reported (and I haven't looked into) is McVay's Rams contract. Is it up?

 

Or would a team need to give draft compensation to get him?

[skinsfan4128]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

One thing I haven't seen reported (and I haven't looked into) is McVay's Rams contract. Is it up?

 

Or would a team need to give draft compensation to get him?

Same as Payton, would require draft compensation. 

[KDawg]

Just now, skinsfan4128 said:

Same as Payton, would require draft compensation. 

 

It's still an intriguing thought, but it lessens my desire for him. I think there are quality candidates out there that can be a head coach in the League and don't require that compensation.

 

Some names of guys I'm interested in:

 

Ken Dorsey (Bills OC)

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC)

Demeco Ryans (Niners DC)

 

There are more, too. Just doing it off the top of my head.

 

Having said that... I'm not opposed to seeing what it would take to get McVay back here. He'd be a great get. 

[LetThePointsSoar]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's still an intriguing thought, but it lessens my desire for him. I think there are quality candidates out there that can be a head coach in the League and don't require that compensation.

 

Some names of guys I'm interested in:

 

Ken Dorsey (Bills OC)

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC)

Demeco Ryans (Niners DC)

 

There are more, too. Just doing it off the top of my head.

 

Having said that... I'm not opposed to seeing what it would take to get McVay back here. He'd be a great get. 

 

No WAY to Bienemy. Living in Chiefs country, you hear all the dirt and understand exactly why he hasn't been given the shot. 

 

Other two are intriguing though. 

[skinsfan4128]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

It's still an intriguing thought, but it lessens my desire for him. I think there are quality candidates out there that can be a head coach in the League and don't require that compensation.

 

Some names of guys I'm interested in:

 

Ken Dorsey (Bills OC)

Eric Bienemy (Chiefs OC)

Demeco Ryans (Niners DC)

 

There are more, too. Just doing it off the top of my head.

 

Having said that... I'm not opposed to seeing what it would take to get McVay back here. He'd be a great get. 

McVay would be a great get, but it would also be a  question of the haul the Rams would want in return. I wouldn't want to mortgage the future for him (in terms of draft capital).

 

 

Not to mention,  I'd be a little sketchy about him considering he teeters back and forth about his coaching future for a guy who is relatively young. Granted, he's got a super bowl ring under his belt but he hasn't been a HC all that long to be discussing openly that he might want to step away from the game.

 

Payton has been around a lot longer with a more expansive resume.

 

Though I wouldn't be opposed to either if the price is right, I much rather find a young up and coming guy to come in.

 

HTTR!

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

 

Scott in Rons office when asked to explain the run run pass this morning

 

Im waiting for the notification to say he's gone

[bearrock]

On the OC front, if a lame duck year of Rivera happens, which seems like the leading scenario, can they get a good candidate to replace Turner?  Wouldn't a top OC candidate shy away from taking a job where their boss is likely gone in a year and there's no obvious QB answer on the roster?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

On the OC front, if a lame duck year of Rivera happens, which seems like the leading scenario, can they get a good candidate to replace Turner?  Wouldn't a top OC candidate shy away from taking a job where their boss is likely gone in a year and there's no obvious QB answer on the roster?

Absolutely they can.

 

Experience, resume padding, networking are all important. 

 

But it could also be as easy as a guy like Zampese taking over. 

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, bearrock said:

On the OC front, if a lame duck year of Rivera happens, which seems like the leading scenario, can they get a good candidate to replace Turner?  Wouldn't a top OC candidate shy away from taking a job where their boss is likely gone in a year and there's no obvious QB answer on the roster?

Zampese. Thats about it. 

[@DCGoldPants]

20 minutes ago, bearrock said:

On the OC front, if a lame duck year of Rivera happens, which seems like the leading scenario, can they get a good candidate to replace Turner?  Wouldn't a top OC candidate shy away from taking a job where their boss is likely gone in a year and there's no obvious QB answer on the roster?

 

I'd sooner promote from the current staff. Turner's weakness seems to be on gameday with being too predictable and/or conservative. I wouldn't want an entire new offense for next year. Just someone calling the plays.

[Koolblue13]

Random, but the Bears are in crazy great position for the offseason. $100 mil in cap to spend. First pick and the Texans should absolutely trade up to 1 for it. then the Bears can trade back from 2. They have a chance to turn the franchise around like the Eagles did and really set themselves up long term.