A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Going Commando]

37 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

nonetheless, i do want him to get at least another year for sure and i do think it is possible for him to get us back up there, but the odds are long imo

 

I'm conflicted like you.  I want him to work out but I just don't have a ton of confidence in him yet.

 

The one thing I keep coming back to for reassurance is that he hired Mayhew and Hurney to form a true collaborative front office.  IMO that was big.  Successful football teams seem to be trending towards a less hierarchical and more collaborative structure and Rivera has shown the flexibility to evolve and a true willingness to spread the work around and trust his colleagues.

 

He also does a good job connecting with most of the people he works with, which is one of the biggest parts of coaching.  He's going to have to find that relationship with a quarterback in order for his tenure to be a success, but he's at least done it with other players.

 

I wish he was younger and perhaps more aggressive and had more big picture vision about QB development.  I wish he was better able to form a true partnership with a young QB in the way that McVay or Kellen Moore or Shanahan have done with their QBs.  His inability to do this is handicapping our rebuild and could cost him the job.  Perhaps he can hire an OC that can accomplish this for him.  Most of the posters on the board can't stand to contemplate this, but I think he had that in hand when he was hired in O'Connell and Haskins but threw them in the trash for a couple of busts in Turner and Allen.  Nevertheless, it's becoming one of the most critical parts of being a successful NFL coach and he needs to find it again somewhere else.

 

I also wish the FO had done a better job with free agency and the draft, as it is really hard for me to have a ton of confidence in a front office that can't outpick me.  We live in a different media world from ten years ago.  Now total outsiders and laymen have access to cut ups and All-22, prospect discussion is everywhere and can actually be quite detailed and evidence-based, and there are tons of platforms where coaches teach the game so that I can follow along with them at a way more complicated level than I used to.  The game has become much more transparent to us laymen, and thus it has become a lot easier to see when your coaches and front office executives **** up.  They're not going to get the rope that they used to.  Plus this year I started keeping a record of who I would have drafted immediately after the draft ends to see how I'd do without hindsight bias, and I can already tell my draft was far better than theirs.  They need to do way better with the draft period.  And they certainly need to do a way better job in free agency.  This front office has just clustered too many bad moves and missed opportunities together in two years, they need a run of great personnel work for us to make the leap into contention.  And they need to find a QB and make it work with them.  That's the bottom line determining whether they'll be successful or not.  I'm not giving up on them yet, but I need to see them doing better work this offseason to buy in to their regime.  If they don't, then I don't really think fourth year will be the charm and giving them a fourth offseason would just be wasting prime seasons of the good young players we've managed to acquire.

[Thinking Skins]

8 minutes ago, Bunny Kelly said:

If Jason Wright was missing yesterday, could it be a sign he is on the way out already?

 

The Snyders went over his head with the retiring of the jersey at such short notice, Wright had to come out & apologize & is now realizing what a mess this place is & wants out?

This could be telling. Its interesting to hear the stories about Kyle Smith and Haskins. And Gruden. And Shanahah. Its not necessarily the straws that broke the camels back but just the dysfunction within the org we know is dysfnunctional. Wright may not have known this, or thought he would have more power than he does. Maybe this is his first real opportunity to seehow the sausage is made and is deciding to go on a diet and maybe become a vegan. 

[WTFforLife]

For no good reason Ron blew up our secondary which for better or worse helped to get us to the playoffs , who the heck does this? I am mostly pissed letting Darby go, cutting Moreland and the real boneheaded move sending Reeves a guy who faced off (well) against Big Ben and Tom friggin Brady to the practice squad this year. The personnel moves look like a kid destroying  the sand castle he was making in a rage fit because mommy wont buy him ice cream at the beach. Ron is one of the worst personnel coach/gm's I have ever seen bar none. X's and O's may be his thing, But personnel needs to be taken completely from his control.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

I agree, head coach needs to own his staff. Hire and fire as he sees fit, not the owners job. But at the end of the day, good, bad or indifferent the head coach owns the product on the field. Assuming of course the HC is given the leeway to hire and fire his own staff.

 

Agree the head coach owns it but 1.25 season for me isn't enough to bail or panic about any head coach.  Not saying you are, just explaining my mindset.  The only head coach I panicked fast was with Zorn because to me his incompetence was apparent.    

 

Dan by reputation has the tendency to micro manage coaches anyway without prompting.  His instinct to interfere is bad enough for me as is.  So no way I am calling for him to do it.  

 

Dan by reputation is as emotional as any fan especially after loses.  He might not fire head coaches and his right hand men that often but as for stories that have been told about him -- he uses bumps in the road as his excuse to interfere.   And heads do tend to roll in that office, they have a ton of turnover.

 

The way I look at it myself as I give every coach 3 years to build the team his way.  100% their way.   Some complain that we never do real rebuilds yet some also seem impatient when success doesn't come fast.  IMO the 2 points aren't compatible.  I don't think Dan ever has the patience for a real rebuild so you can't go full out IMO in that rebuild direction but you can try to do it to an extent.   

 

As JP Finlay said on air today, Rivera inherited an impossible task -- he's not just coaching but also dealing with all the sidebar dumpster fire issues that other coaches aren't saddled with.  I agree.  I am giving Rivera a break for now.  Let him climb out of this hole this season and rework the roster next season.   If we are having the same conversation next year, I'll slam them.  But I admit it will be real sad if so.  I think if we bail on Ron, plan B is likely going to be much worse.  This isn't a hot destination spot.  Dan can sell this team to a new coach years back -- those times IMO aren't applicable to today.    I think Plan B if that's what happens here puts the team further in the gutter. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[ntotoro]

36 minutes ago, Bunny Kelly said:

If Jason Wright was missing yesterday, could it be a sign he is on the way out already?

 

The Snyders went over his head with the retiring of the jersey at such short notice, Wright had to come out & apologize & is now realizing what a mess this place is & wants out?

 

Or maybe the thing was Jason Wright's clown show to begin with.

[spjunkies]

3 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Or maybe the thing was Jason Wright's clown show to begin with.

 

This situation has Snyder's name written all over it. Just look at the last 20 years if you need more evidence. 

[SoCalSkins]

26 minutes ago, Bunny Kelly said:

If Jason Wright was missing yesterday, could it be a sign he is on the way out already?

 

The Snyders went over his head with the retiring of the jersey at such short notice, Wright had to come out & apologize & is now realizing what a mess this place is & wants out?

If he’s as business savvy as he thinks he is then he absolutely needs to exit now. It’s not going to get any better for him and can only get worse. 

[ntotoro]

11 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

This situation has Snyder's name written all over it. Just look at the last 20 years if you need more evidence. 

 

I have zero doubt Snyder is all over this thing. Difficult to exonerate Wright since it's technically his job to do these sorts of things and was line dancing at the stadium yesterday. I don't think he has earned enough grace yet to be completely outside suspicion.

Edited October 18, 2021 by ntotoro

[FuriousD]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As JP Finlay said on air today, Rivera inherited an impossible task -- he's not just coaching but also dealing with all the sidebar dumpster fire issues that other coaches aren't saddled with.  I agree.  I am giving Rivera a break for now.  Let him climb out of this hole this season and rework the roster next season.   If we are having the same conversation next year, I'll slam them.  But I admit it will be real sad if so.  I think if we bail on Ron, plan B is likely going to be much worse.  This isn't a hot destination spot.  Dan can sell this team to a new coach years back -- those times IMO aren't applicable to today.    I think Plan B if that's what happens here puts the team further in the gutter. 

Well said.  I feel bad for RR but he's a grown man and knew he was taking on a tall order.  So be it.  Whether he knew just how toxic the undercurrent was at the Park is a question only he can answer.  Snyder, Brucifer and years of mind-numbing incompetence aside, we have to find a franchise QB if we're ever going to be relevant again.. 

[profusion]

Weren't we just asking prior to Sunday whether the franchise had hit rock bottom?

 

Apparently, the shovel is still finding actionable new ground to bite into.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 Most of the posters on the board can't stand to contemplate this, but I think he had that in hand when he was hired in O'Connell and Haskins but threw them in the trash for a couple of busts in Turner and Allen.  Nevertheless, it's becoming one of the most critical parts of being a successful NFL coach and he needs to find it again somewhere else.

 

 

Some good points in your post.   Agree with some of it and I disagree with some of it.   I got some similar complaints about Ron but at the same time just by philosophy I try to stay cool initially about any coach.  I think football is an emotional sport.  We as fans are likewise emotional.  So I am cool with Ron riding out the storm in his own way and I am not expecting him to be reactive to the swings of the season so to speak.  I am more of an evaulate after the season kind of guy. 

 

I was cool with keeping O'Connell and liked the idea.  Sorry for challenging you on Haskins from time to time but I don't get your loyalty to him.   He doesn't deserve it IMO.  I know you liked him before the draft.   Heck I liked Guice.  IMO you were wrong about Haskins.  I was wrong about Guice.  It's cool, it happens.  What do the two players have in common?  Dan Snyder supposedly overruled Kyle Smith and the scouts on both players.   The process is screwed up.  I don't care if Dan agrees with me on a player.  The process is more important to me than whether Dan agrees with me.  And heck if Dan agrees with me on a player I should pause and wonder considering how bad his instincts are on players.  

 

On Guice apparently they liked the player but had red flags on character.  They were right.  No one has touched Guice since.   As for Haskins, when he was put on waivers, no team even put a claim on him.  Why?  It's not because Rivera just wouldn't groom an uber talented player because he wasn't his guy.  It was because clearly plenty of other teams had concerns about the player and his makeup. 

 

As for Haskins, depending on the source they either had a 2nd or 3rd round grade on him.  And then when he got into the building, he didn't work hard, didn't study hard.  Even his mentor Shawn Springs didn't disavow work ethic concerns including saying he can't put the work in for him.  He apparently would show up to meetings late.    Then you got the nonsense COVID-19 issues with him.   Even Chase Young was quoted in the end saying Haskins was immature.  Supposedly players were more than cool with his release and he rubbed some the wrong way including by bragging about his stats in the locker room after losing to the Ravens.

 

I think letting Haskins go was not only a good football move but a good culture move.  And heck so was releasing Guice even though he was my guy so to speak before that draft.

 

As for FA almost alll of us agreed that they nailed FA last year.  Getting 3 really good players out of a draft is good.  Adding a couple of backups to that translates to at least a solid draft IMO.  As for this year, I just don't grade a draft or FA after 6 games.  I know you loved the Samuel signing at the time as I did for example.   I don't blame any FO for injuries.  That's just bad luck.  I've slammed William Jackson as much as anyone but to me its still just a third of the season so its TBD.

 

For me, I do think Ron has too much on his plate.  As to how to fix that?  I don't know but the last thing I want is for Dan to decide how to deal with that or take over a hire and use that as an excuse for him to interfere himself.  I'd encourage Ron to add more people to help.  I don't love how they approached Jamin Davis -- hated making him start at Mike for reasons I stated in other threads.    And I have a few other football decisions that I didn't like. 

 

My biggest beef is I think they miscalculated the Qb spot this season.  It looks like they picked the right targets but they clearly didn't have a sense of urgency to act on it.  They did the equivalent of we'd love to have a Ruth Chris steak but only if we can get it at $25.  They wanted to do the equivalent of buying a highly flying stock but only if the market crashed and could get it at a 25% discount.  And banked on if they weren't lucky like that, they'd be fine anyway because the defense would be good and Fitzpatrick is good enough.  That whole plan clearly failed.  But for me its not a fatal error.  I get the logic of it even though it failed.  I want to see them fix this next off season versus basking in the angst about them missing the boat.  But if they miss the boat next off season, I will then be upset.

 

The backdrop for me though about all of this is if Ron Rivera fails here, I think be braced for name that retread or shot in the dark candidate to run this team.  Ron like Gibbs like Marty like Shanny were respected in the league.  If they all fail here the rap is going to be you can't win here.  In short, Dan will be blamed not Ron.  

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I have zero doubt Snyder is all over this thing. Difficult to exonerate Wright since it's technically his job to do these sorts of things and was line dancing at the stadium yesterday. I don't think he has earned enough grace yet to be completely outside suspicion.

 

I don’t think that line dancing video was from yesterday. That’s from the honeymoon period of his tenure which abruptly ended. You probably won’t be seeing him doing any of that stuff for a while. He had a good run. Better than many who have come through here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Snyder, Brucifer and years of mind-numbing incompetence aside, we have to find a franchise QB if we're ever going to be relevant again.. 

 

Well said.  I've said more or less the same over the years, I think that's the only shot for this team to be successful.  But now it burns in me like 1000 suns, I zealously believe this now. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Well I got bad news for you guys. We’re never going to have a franchise QB.

[The Rook]

I am with SIP in that I believe this group needs to be given three years ...

 

However,

 

Another factor I found concerning was only signing one UDFA after the draft.  Shows me that they did not have a realistic evaluation of their roster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[SoCalSkins]

7 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well I got bad news for you guys. We’re never going to have a franchise QB.

We won our 2 most recent Super Bowls without one. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

We won our 2 most recent Super Bowls without one. 

Well run organizations can do that sort of thing. This **** show we’ve got now will maybe sniff a division title once every 5 years if we’re lucky.

[ananoman]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

We won our 2 most recent Super Bowls without one. 

Exactly.  People keep forgetting that neither Doug Williams nor Mark Rypien were franchise quarterbacks.  They were decent quarterbacks who were capable of doing their part on great teams.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well I got bad news for you guys. We’re never going to have a franchise QB.

 

Odds are against us for sure.   😧  As we know, this isn't the 80s or 90s anymore.   The odds of winning consistently without a franchise QB is close to zero.  Decades ago it was doable.

 

Tough to win as is with the worst owner in sports.  But trying to do it without a franchise QB and a train wreck owner is clearly impossible.

 

If we fail so be it but I say lets go down swinging. 

[ThePackisback]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Odds are against us for sure.   😧  As we know, this isn't the 80s or 90s anymore.   The odds of winning consistently without a franchise QB is close to zero.  Decades ago it was doable.

 

Tough to win as is with the worst owner in sports.  But trying to do it without a franchise QB and a train wreck owner is clearly impossible.

 

If we fail so be it but I say lets go down swinging. 

You will. Rodgers will join you guys next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, ananoman said:

Exactly.  People keep forgetting that neither Doug Williams nor Mark Rypien were franchise quarterbacks.  They were decent quarterbacks who were capable of doing their part on great teams.

 

They also got hot at the right time and did it an era where a franchise QB wasn't key.

 

If there is a loophole at QB, its finding a QB who hits lightening in a bottle and is just hot for a spell, see Nick Foles but sadly it doesn't last. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[ThePackisback]

4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well run organizations can do that sort of thing. This **** show we’ve got now will maybe sniff a division title once every 5 years if we’re lucky.

You guys will be fine. Trust me.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, ThePackisback said:

You will. Rodgers will join you guys next year.

 

I'd love it but he won't want to come here and apparently he has some say in where he goes.  Will see. 

[ThePackisback]

4 minutes ago, ananoman said:

Exactly.  People keep forgetting that neither Doug Williams nor Mark Rypien were franchise quarterbacks.  They were decent quarterbacks who were capable of doing their part on great teams.

Kind of like Jim Mcmahon was with Chicago.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd love it but he won't want to come here and apparently he has some say in where he goes.  Will see. 

So you want to see me suffer through terrible times after this year😆😆

[Skinsinparadise]

Gruden may have been symptomatic of systemic racism within the White-owned NFL and, given that much of his digital disparagement came when he worked as an ESPN analyst, the majority-White sports media as well.

 

Snyder, though, isn’t a symptom. As an owner, he is the NFL, its actual disorder.

There are Snyder’s — and the league’s — years of tone deafness to the rising cacophony of voices calling for him to change the team’s name we have learned without question is racist. There was what wound up his — and thus the league’s — joke of a charity for indigenous people he once ballyhooed, whose impact dwindled to zero donations by one of its final fiscal years. There was the audacity of his — and thus the league’s — lawsuit against fans who defaulted on season ticket packages after being hit hard by a recession. And just this month came a DEA probe into his team’s head trainer — who worked for Snyder’s newest head coaching hire, Ron Rivera, in Carolina — on suspicion of distributing prescription drugs that the players’ union is worried could impact player safety.

 

But the league hasn’t shown much discomfort with Snyder’s 21-year stranglehold on its Washington franchise. It just granted him and his wife complete control after Snyder’s partners begged out of the muck.

 

It could be that other owners see Snyder as other NBA owners for so long regarded one of their own, Donald Sterling. Like Snyder, Sterling wasn’t a competitive threat. And as long as he was around, none of the other owners could be the worst.

But even other NBA owners gagged when Sterling was caught whispering sour bigotries to his paramour. Players revolted. Much of the public was appalled. So other owners forced Sterling out.

 

The NFL should exercise the same right, now. It has the means, Section 8.13 of the Constitution & Bylaws of the National Football League. Titled “Disciplinary Powers of the Commissioner,” it states in part: “Whenever the Commissioner, after notice and hearing, decides that an owner, shareholder, partner or holder of an interest in a member club … has either violated the Constitution and Bylaws of the League or has been or is guilty of conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League or professional football, then the Commissioner shall have the complete authority to suspend and/or fine such person … [or] Whenever the Commissioner determines that any punishment that the Commissioner has the power to impose pursuant to Section 8.13(A), is not adequate or sufficient … the following additional or increased punishment or discipline be imposed.”

 

Among the allowable punishments: “Cancellation or forfeiture of the franchise in the League of any member club involved or implicated.”

Has Snyder not lived down to that threshold?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/16/jon-gruden-daniel-snyder-investigation/