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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread


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2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

The only hope I have is that he continues to have the worst growth in the entire NFL in terms of revenue (see below) and that eventually the other trash can owners themselves turn on him

 

As far as that chart ... I wonder if or how much different it would look if they had compared over the last 15 years, or even 10. The chart doesn't include 2020 for example. The teams value rose 20 percent this past year currently making them the fifth most valuable franchise in the league.

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2 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

As far as that chart ... I wonder if or how much different it would look if they had compared over the last 15 years, or even 10. The chart doesn't include 2020 for example. The teams value rose 20 percent this past year currently making them the fifth most valuable franchise in the league.


Who knows, but every NFL team is guaranteed growth every year. That chart is showing valuation growth relative to the rest of the league, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t much of a difference.  I’m sure they all grew around that same percentage if that makes sense. 

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25 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:


Who knows, but every NFL team is guaranteed growth every year. That chart is showing valuation growth relative to the rest of the league, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t much of a difference.  I’m sure they all grew around that same percentage if that makes sense. 

 

 

Last year, only one team had a higher percentage of value gained than Washington.

 

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47 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:


Who knows, but every NFL team is guaranteed growth every year. That chart is showing valuation growth relative to the rest of the league, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t much of a difference.  I’m sure they all grew around that same percentage if that makes sense. 

Once legalized sports betting is everywhere; nfl franchise value could double in value.  Even us.  

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1 hour ago, Spearfeather said:

 

 

Last year, only one team had a higher percentage of value gained than Washington.

 

 

Not rejecting your claim or anything, but do you have a source for this?
 

If that’s the case, then I’m going to assume that something with the rebranding may have generated that revenue. 

 

Still, I wouldn’t take one year as an indication of anything when we have 20 years that show a massive decline. I mean, if you need proof just look at the friggin stadium and the attendance as well as the TV ratings. This thing isn’t going up. 

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1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Once legalized sports betting is everywhere; nfl franchise value could double in value.  Even us.  


True, but I think the relevance here is regarding the growth of the franchise relative to the rest of the NFL. Washington has always been a premier, top revenue-generating franchise. I get this is difficult to grasp because, in the end, we’re talking about something that’s still generating a boatload of revenue… but anyone looking just a little bit deeper will recognize it could’ve been (and could be) a lot more with just a decent owner running things. 
 

We have to remove the general growth of the entire NFL due to the TV deals and everything else they share from the picture. That chart said a lot about what Dan has done himself to what was, at one point, the top revenue generating franchise (or 2nd best, I forgot, but I do think we were number one at one point). 

2 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:


So tied with the Rams at 20% growth while the average growth was around 15% for the rest of the NFL. So, yeah, interesting, but I don’t take much from it. I think the name change has helped. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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18 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

So tied with the Rams at 20% growth

 

Right, but again, only one team higher than that.

 

18 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

think the name change has helped. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

I don't know. We were, for instance,  third in 2015. Fourth in 2017.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

Right, but again, only one team higher than that.


Yup, but with an average of about 15% growth for the rest of the league and another team that also hit 20% growth,  I don’t think it’s as significant as you might think. 
 

I’d love to see the numbers regarding what other instances of rebranding (tough to find the case of a complete name change, but a big uniform change or something) and what happened in terms of growth for those teams. That’d be a good comparison. 

 

40 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

I don't know. We were, for instance,  third in 2015. Fourth in 2017.


Again, that’s in terms of overall revenue generated if you’re just going off the Forbes’ list. We were, at one point, first or second, so it’s been a steady decline. Not good. 
 

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but are you trying to argue that there isn’t any issue financially with the team and that Dan is doing a good job generating revenue relative to the rest of the league and relative to the starting point he had where we were first or second? Because I highly doubt there’s anything supporting that. I mean, just on a cursory level if we’re looking at the Forbes list alone and seeing other franchises like the Patriots, Giants, Rams and Niners surpass him over time it’d be crazy to come to that conclusion. Add in the decline in attendance and tv ratings and I don’t think anyone can make that argument with a straight face. 
 

But, hey, maybe I’m wrong and Dan is on the up and up financially with this franchise and the fans continue to wholeheartedly support what is the worst owner in sports. 
 

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4 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

 

36 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

are you trying to argue that there isn’t any issue financially with the team and that Dan is doing a good job generating revenue relative to the rest of the league and relative to the starting point he had where we were first or second?

25 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Yup, but with an average of about 15% growth for the rest of the league I don’t think it’s as significant as you might think. 

 

We're fifth now. If we built a new stadium, where do you think we would be ranked ?

 

I don't think the owners are feeling financially motivated to dump Dan Snyder.

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13 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Jerry Jones has been caught with hookers and blow and meddles with his players and coaches about as much as anyone and he's still respected. 

 

When was Jerry Jones caught with blow?  Not that I don't believe you, I just don't remember that happening.

 

It's weird to admit this but over the years I've come to respect Jerry Jones.  I even like him a tiny, tiny little bit.  I think that's how bad Snyder has become to me, that Jerry Jones looks appealing in comparison.  I think that's what's happened to me here.

 

While many of you don't like Jerry, it's important to understand why he's respected.

 

First of all, he actually played the game.  Granted, it was a very long time ago, but he played football and he was pretty good at it.  IIRC, he was a captain on a national championship winner.  It's hard to believe it while looking at him now, but at one point in his life he was a good athlete.  He played the game and while the game has certainly changed since he played....he actually played.  Jerry has more football acumen than Snyder does simply because of that.  I am confident in saying that I don't think Dan Snyder, even on his best day on earth was ever a good athlete.  

 

You can take shots at Jerry for meddling over the years, but no one can say that Jerry doesn't want to win.  And he's given his team magnificent facilities.  He's built a world class stadium for his team.  I remember being in the press box a few years ago for a Dallas game and someone who was traveling with the Cowboys was like "So...is this it?" He was referring to Fed Ex field and the overall feel of the place.  And he proceeded to tell me and about what the Dallas practice facilities were like, apparently it's huge, spotlessly clean, they have incredible amenities, chefs there cooking whatever you want, the whole nine yards.  Jerry spares no expense on his team and it shows.  The Fed Ex press box has undercooked hot dogs in warm water.

 

Lastly, and probably most importantly, Jerry doesn't hide.  I think we might respect Snyder a little more if he wasn't such a ****ing coward.  Jerry used to rub people the wrong way by being so accessible, by being out there and interacting with the media and the Dallas fans...I think people confused that with being an attention whore.  Maybe there's some truth to that, but at least Jerry isn't hiding when things are bad.  Snyder is practically a recluse.  No one respects a coward and that's exactly what Snyder is.  He's always hiding, he's never facing the music, he's never taking responsibility for anything unless he absolutely has to.  And even then, when he does take responsibility for something it's met with skepticism because how can it not be after everything he's done?  

 

And it's probably too late for Dan to change his ways and start digging himself out of the massive hole that he's created for himself.  How long would it take for Snyder to gain any amount of trust from this fanbase if he started granting interviews and showing up to press conferences?  Years, probably.  

 

So while Jerry certainly possesses some traits that aren't likable, he's almost the anti-Snyder.  That's why he gets the respect.  

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

You can take shots at Jerry for meddling over the years, but no one can say that Jerry doesn't want to win. 

 

 

First off, great post. 

 

Second, Dan's a fan and wants to win.  Think he wants to leave mad at halftime? Nope.

 

Dan probably wants to walk the path that AL Davis walked. Now Jerry Jones. I'd guess Dan wants to outbuild the death star. That ****s amazing. He is so freaking young too. Snyder will probably own the team another 100 years, because the way its going for the elite they'll figure that **** out. 

 

We like to brag about sunny smoking in the huddle or Riggins and the Hogs shed drinking, but this team took over. What a wild read.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/mar/01/american-football-dallas-cowboys

 

They were awesome with a physical WR, great TEs and FBs. Awesome defense and huge Oline. 

 

There's plenty of pics of Jerry with whores on line. I figure there was chocolate with the peanut butter. 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

It's weird to admit this but over the years I've come to respect Jerry Jones.  I even like him a tiny, tiny little bit.  I think that's how bad Snyder has become to me, that Jerry Jones looks appealing in comparison.  I think that's what's happened to me here.

 

 

 

 

Great post. 

 

I've liked Jerry since the first time the Cowboys did Hard Knocks. He reminds me of John Hammond, the creator of Jurassic Park: "I spared no expense!" And he doesn't tow the NFL line. He made his own deals with Pepsi and Nike when the league had deals with Coke and Reebok. He felt the moves were in the best interest of his team, so he went in that direction. He's a football guy, though he'd probably benefit from having a few more advisors who know today's athletes a bit more than he probably does.

 

It says a lot about how apathetic I've become toward the WTF that I'd admit to liking the owner of the Cowboys on this forum.      

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7 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

The only hope I have is that he continues to have the worst growth in the entire NFL in terms of revenue (see below) and that eventually the other trash can owners themselves turn on him. That's been a big part of why I feel the way I do and why I'm pretty much rooting for them to lose every week (I still do feel bad for the staff and players, but it is what it is). I think the other owners are okay with it for now since Washington still generates a ton of revenue, but at the pace this loser is going, and with even the most hardcore of fans calling it quits (or at least increasing in their apathy) like I see here on ES, I can see Washington becoming bottom tier overall in generated revenue. I just don't see that sitting well with the other owners. I'm still a bit surprised they even accept this and don't see where it's going. What in the world is redeeming about Dan to them!? I mean, that chart doesn't really go into any detail, but the lack of just base line growth for the team under Dan has got to mean a whole lot of money already wasted by him with the potential to be a whole lot more. 

That point is an important one, as we used to be first in this category. Playing toe-to-toe with the Cowboys.

 

I still believing that the rebranding of the team will play a huge part here. If Dan fail, and considering his history, he likely will, one way or another. The revenues may head even more south and draw fans away even faster.

 

If he comes up with a name and logo fans don't like and/or ends up a in a trademark war, things won't go well at all in terms of revenues.

 

And in this case, considering what we know from the guy, The rebranding can go everywhere, the guy is most likely to overrule it and comes with a name/logo by himself (even take a logo he would find out on google).

 

I would feel better knowing the guy is on a mission to Mars than doing anything related to the team. Tanya is just placeholding right now.

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More PR headaches for not just the WFT but for Gruden and the entire NFL. Still more bad press hanging out there over the e-mails thing than I'm sure they would care to have right now. The SNL cold open last night skewered Goodell, Gruden and the WFT among others. It's ironic that the e-mails came out of the WFT investigation but the only major hit so far has been to Gruden who is not even part of the WFT. The only big hit so far to Washington has been Larry Michaels and probably Bruce Allen tangentially. 

 

Another irony about all of this which I'm sure that the NFL wishes weren't the case is that the big holiday movie which is being advertised everywhere is "Chucky's Back"! 

 

 

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8 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

But, hey, maybe I’m wrong and Dan is on the up and up financially with this franchise and the fans continue to wholeheartedly support what is the worst owner in sports. 

 

NFL TV ratings are up.  The local TV ratings for this team is actually down.  Dead last in attendance.  Before Chase Young, they never seem to have any dude even in the top 100 in jersey sales.  They couldn't even get a Sunday Night prime time game for years until this one because I gather the NFL didn't see them as a ratings draw.   So if Dan by chance is rocking better than even financially it would show that no matter what he does he can't not make money running an NFL franchise.  He's lucky he's found one of the only businesses that operates that way.

 

Some ask me why stick with being a fan of the team but more so how come my passion for it hasn't really waned?  My answer is typically I just love football.  I am a football freak.  I'll go to college games, high school games, etc.  I just love watching it.  And I have roots that go deep with the WFT which just happens to be my team.  My point is I think Dan benefits greatly off of this kind of mindset which I am not alone on.

 

Lets say you are running for example Nike.  If you ran it into the ground, consumers would just buy other sneakers.  They'd stop buying Nike and would buy New Balance or whatever.  People aren't saying hey I am just born as a Nike guy. My dad wore Nikes.  It's just in the family.  It doesn't work that way for most products. 

 

Dan happens to be in a business with all the sneaker companies working together as a consortium. So if Nike fails, New Balance picks up the slack.  And he has some ingrained customer base who won't leave the product no matter what he does.  He's beyond lucky on that front.  Otherwise financially this business would have long gone the same way IMO of his other failed ventures. 

 

Think of this.  This title below of that article was 10 years ago and it's gotten way worse since.  Almost any other business run by a sleazy dummy like him would be bankrupt by now.  But he's lucked into one of the rare bullet proof businesses that prints money.  Don't get me wrong, he's seen as a failure considering he's a league wide laughingstock.  It's not a secret he's run the franchise into the ground.  It's an accept fact.   But at the same time, we all know the business will survive regardless. 

 

I recall the article talking about while not all owners like Jerry Jones he's seen as a money magnet for the NFL but Dan Snyder isn't liked but also isn't seen as an asset to the fellow owners as to making money.   So they didn't have respect for him where they can grudingly give nods to Jerry.   Initially, he did good because it was a big stadium and he didn't have the time yet to establish his reputation of being the incompetent douche that now everyone knows him to be.  So he hiked prices.  We all recall he wanted to charge for everything including even watching training camp.  So he did a nice job bilking fans who weren't thay far removed from the team's glory years who were hungry for succeess. 

 

But after that, he by the death of a thousand cuts ruined it.  Like I said in another post, he really just had a trick or two and that's it.  Sell new "exciting" beginnings.  Spurrier!  Marty! Gibbs! Shanny!  And for a time he kept trying to spin he was the new and improved version of himself.  But that's all he's got.  Very few buy it anymore.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/758502-dan-snyder-why-the-redskins-owner-is-most-hated-man-in-franchise-history

Dan Snyder: Why Washington Redskins Owner Is Most Hated Man in Franchise History

SHAE CRONINJULY 6, 2011

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On another note, Rivera isn't perfect and I get people are upset about how the season has gone and why angst is directed at him.  But some of those criticisms IMO completely belie his reputation.  The one that hit me the most were some suggesting he's a push over where he doesn't demand accountability.  To me that's wildly off considering his reputaton.   I get the point from the perspective it was made which is he's not overhauling lineups as fast as people like.  But to me that's not about Rivera demanding accountability.   It's simply that some coaches are more reactive that way and some are more patient.  

 

He's not a Jon Gruden type who will change lineups as often as people change underwear.  He's a bit more patient than that typically.  But eventually judging by last season he's willing to make changes, he just doesn't typically telegraph them in advance.   The irony is both styles get slammed when things aren't working at that present moment in time.  Gruden was seen as an impatient emotional basket case when he wasn't winning and kept making changes.   But when you aren't winning -- coaches who are patient get slammed for being out of touch and lost.

 

Steinbrenner famous veered from one extreme at times to another on this front as to changing managers to fit his mood at the time. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/41948/washingtons-ron-rivera-continues-to-heed-mentor-andy-reids-message

 

In Carolina, where Rivera coached from 2011 to 2019, he was in a similar spot. He took over a 2-14 team in 2011 and went 6-10 that season, but the Panthers lost six of their first seven in 2012. At one point during this stretch, Reid called Rivera -- his linebackers coach in Philadelphia from 1999 to 2003.

 

"When things were tough he told me, 'Keep your head up, I know you'll get through it. Stick to what you believe in, stick to your values,'" Rivera said. "That meant a lot. When he said it, it reinforced everything [that] I believe. I know we were struggling; I know it's hard and I know it feels like you're starting over. But it's one of those things where guys say, 'I get it now, I understand.' That's what happened."

The Panthers closed that year by winning six of their last seven games. For Rivera, the message applies to 2021 as well. Washington won five of its last seven games last season and won the NFC East. It hoped to build off that success, especially with a defense ranked in the top four in both yards and points allowed. That hasn't happened as Washington's defense ranks 31st in points allowed and 27th in yards.

Reid's message wasn't about not making changes, but rather not abandoning core beliefs. Reid's advice stemmed from a long career highlighted by success -- a 223-133-1 record and a Super Bowl win in 23 seasons -- and tough times. Reid lost three straight conference championships in Philadelphia and was fired in 2012 after his first losing season in seven years.

 

"I know various guys call him and bounce things off him," said Brad Childress, the former Minnesota Vikings coach and a Reid assistant in both Philadelphia and Kansas City. "He's always the voice of reason, the voice of calm. There are very few situations he hasn't been through. He'll have an informed opinion about why he's telling you what he's telling you."

Before his first season with Washington, Rivera picked Reid's brain.

 

"He's a very deep thinker. You pay attention when he says something," Rivera said.

Like others who coached under Reid, Rivera said he's borrowed multiple ideas or ways to run a team, starting with practices.

"The way he wants practice run and operated, the tempo at which he wants it played," Rivera said. "The reason is you don't condition players like you used to back in the day. So, you try to get the conditioning during the reps. It's always about tempo and practicing fast and going and doing everything quickly. It's close to ... game speed, which is really hard."

 

Washington cornerback Kendall Fuller played for Reid in Kansas City when it won the Super Bowl.

"Both are real competitive," Fuller said of Sunday's coaches. "Both like to get in there and talk to defensive players, offensive players. They want guys to be competitive out there. Both of them are a little strict. Both preach fundamental details. They want things done the right way, nobody walking on the field -- you run from period to period."

Reid said he liked that Rivera, working under defensive coordinator Jim Johnson in Philadelphia, was always positive with his players. But Reid also said Rivera was demanding.

 

"He had been there and knew what it would take to be successful," Reid said. "So, he made sure that he stayed on top of the players that way. You had a feeling he was going to be a good coordinator and you had a feeling if he got a chance to be a head coach, he'd be a good head coach."

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On 10/15/2021 at 8:51 PM, SoCalSkins said:


If Jason Wright had integrity he would quit rather than blatantly lie. That’s the unforgivable part. A nuanced vague explanation would have been uncomfortable but perhaps not career ending. When you outright lie and double down on the lie with your personal credibility it’s game over and no coming back from it. His whole brand he has tried to cultivate is based on transparency and honesty. It’s over for him. 

Part of his job is to be the mouthpiece for ownership. They blew it on this one but I give Wright a pass. He is a solid guy w/ character. 

 

 Also you have to remember that he is making  a lot of money. Easy for you to say he should quit. Would you give up his paychecks? I wouldn't. 

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Could the valuation of the team be 

7 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

Right, but again, only one team higher than that.

 

 

I don't know. We were, for instance,  third in 2015. Fourth in 2017.

 

 

I think one major thing that maybe helped is all the talk that Dan could be forced to sell. Not saying there was any merit to it. But if the team were up for sale it would probably be valued higher because of the potential value new ownership.  The NFL is a cash cow and everyone is guaranteed profit. That makes it worth a lot especially if it is up for sale.

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9 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

In closer at the numbers in that article for the top teams (but not especially closely), what strikes me is that how massively the valuation of every team but the Cowboys and Patriots is based on leaguewide shared revenue. For the WFT, that's about 80% of the $4.3B valuation. Amazingly, for the Giants it's over 90%. 

 

What Forbes doesn't seem to indicate is how much each Franchise is contributing to that pot of money. For a team with low local TV ratings and cruddy merch sales, from everything I've read, I can't imagine that WFT are pulling their weight in that regard.

 

Snyder is lucky in having a large market that, as the center of government, uniquely contains a large number of fans of all the other teams who'll attend games, plus a stadium he owns that's paid off (even if he doesn't own the ground under it). None of that is due to his efforts over the last 20 years. He's a free rider on the work other, better people.

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1 hour ago, Alexa said:

Part of his job is to be the mouthpiece for ownership. They blew it on this one but I give Wright a pass. He is a solid guy w/ character. 

 

 Also you have to remember that he is making  a lot of money. Easy for you to say he should quit. Would you give up his paychecks? I wouldn't. 

 

Agree.  Similar things were said by some about how Jay should quit and it speaks to his character they he didn't. I disagreed with that, too. 

 

For starters, quiting and being fired are night and day as far as your financial well being.  You can also argue that when you are fired ironically that's the win against the owner not quitting -- considering you forgo your salary when you quit but when fired the owner is obligated to pay you still.   

 

I work in a position that has public implications.  But when I am working my #1 obligation is to my family's financial being.  Everything else comes 2nd.  For me at least, I am not judging another person for not giving up their financial obligation to their family to stand up on some principle that strangers believe is in play that they should die on the sword for. 

 

Taking a hit for your boss is common in public positions like his.  I am with Danny Rouhier on this, he articulated the point well for me which is he doesn't believe a sharp dude who graduated from Northwestern sheparded this mistake.  Look we are all human anyone can blow it, so its possible.  But otherwise this step on the story clumsy effort is vintage Dan so i am going to believe its him until I hear otherwise.  

 

So many examples of this.  Hey the fans are upset that Scot is being let go so lets leak a story that the dude is a drunk.   Upset that Bruce is the defacto GM -- how about a spanking new head of personnel in Doug Wiliams?  Take that.   Hey fans aren't happy that we aren't hiring Gregg Williams to be the next head coach, lets leak that he took shots at Gibbs in the interview, that will turn them around!   The QB didn't take our low ball offer, lets tell the fans he's greedy and we did everything we could.   

 

Fans are upset about Trent, lets leak we didn't really get a good trade offer, and Trent is the problem not us.   You are upset at Dan, rest assured its not him, its Vinny.  Rinse and repeat, no its Bruce.   New story coming out about the women, ok lets announce Julie Donaldson.  Another one coming?  Tanya Snyder is the new Co-Ceo.   How about that!  You guys are upset about Haz coming back -- how about lets leak that Shanny shackled him, we got the new unshackled version of him.  Cool.  Shanny didn't fix RG3, don't worry we got the guy who turned a lesser talent like Andy Dalton into a good QB, wait till he gets his hands on RG3?  Fun times ahead.  

 

Using one new narrative whether its in a positive way or negative way to distract from a current story is how Dan lives.  People can blame other characters for enacting this strategy.  But its hard for me to believe that the dude who lives and dies by that particular sword and is the common denominator while the other players in the FO keep changing -- has nothing to do with this. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Alexa said:

but I give Wright a pass. He is a solid guy w/ character.


Why do people say stuff like this? We don’t know this guy, we know nothing about him other than what fluff pieces say. I’m sure he is a nice guy in his life. But what definition of character are we using? Just a weird thing to say about a total stranger in a very dirty business. The ONLY real data points we have on Wright (aside from his obvious work ethic and acumen) are that the NFL and McKinsey like him—two extremely shady and bad organizations overall. 
 

Note that I’m NOT saying he has no morals or poor character or any other type of pointed negativity—I’m simply saying it’s silly to project shining positive attributes onto the guy like he’s Joe Gibbs. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, all we really know about him is that he’s willing to work for ****bags. Stop trying to paint normal ambitious people as saviors, is what I’m saying. The guy is willing to get his hands dirty, so to speak, for money. We have no idea about his character or morals. 

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9 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


Why do people say stuff like this? We don’t know this guy, we know nothing about him other than what fluff pieces say. I’m sure he is a nice guy in his life. But what definition of character are we using? Just a weird thing to say about a total stranger in a very dirty business. The ONLY real data points we have on Wright (aside from his obvious work ethic and acumen) are that the NFL and McKinsey like him—two extremely shady and bad organizations overall. 
 

Note that I’m NOT saying he has no morals or poor character or any other type of pointed negativity—I’m simply saying it’s silly to project shining positive attributes onto the guy like he’s Joe Gibbs. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, all we really know about him is that he’s willing to work for ****bags. Stop trying to paint normal ambitious people as saviors, is what I’m saying. The guy is willing to get his hands dirty, so to speak, for money. We have no idea about his character or morals. 


We actually do have a data point. He blatantly lies without hesitation.

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