Summer of 2020---The Civil Unrest Thread--Read OP Before Posting (in memory of George Floyd)

[Springfield]

So if these three guys kill Rittenhouse instead then it’s ALSO self defense.

 

Correct?

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

The amount of people in this thread defending this misguided and irresponsible kid resulting in the death of two people is disappointing.
I understand we want to play lawyer and sift through the facts and parse the details. 
 

 I get the legal system and how complicated a case like this can be. Sometimes though, we need to step back as say, did this kids decisions & actions contribute to the unnecessary death of two people? The answer is clearly yes in my opinion.
 

He deserves to be in jail for at least a few years.   
His mother should also face charges for taking him and dropping him off there. 
 

Our legal system contains a whole lot of grey, I get that. But man this kid compounded a terrible 1st decision with at least two more terrible decisions. He deserves to go to jail. 
 

What if he was black or brown? Would we be having this same discussion? I highly highly doubt it. It’s a shame. Hoping the jurors get this right and put him behind bars where he belongs. I won’t be holding my breath though. 

[86 Snyder]

I have only loosely followed the trial but have a few general takes:

 

1- The judge is a complete joke and there are hundreds if not thousands of judges like him littered throughout the legal system

 

2- Both sides of council are dimwitted and incompetent 

 

3- Kyle had absolutely zero business thrusting himself into this situation

 

4- He probably did act in self defense once he was in the moment

 

5- He's going to win the verdict

 

I dont know enough about the specific charges and laws involved to know what the verdict should be.  I *do* know there's absolutely zero reason for him to be on that scene and since 2 people were killed there should be some sort of charge that fits the events of that evening.  He may well be living in a crack in the system.  There are of course a whole hell of a lot of those.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So if these three guys kill Rittenhouse instead then it’s ALSO self defense.

 

Correct?

 

I'd think so, if Rittenhouse was the one who initiated it.  

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So if these three guys kill Rittenhouse instead then it’s ALSO self defense.

 

Correct?

What did he do to threaten them?

so far all we have is he put out a fire they were trying to use to burn down buildings. 

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I understand that's your perception, but where's the evidence that was his motive?  One of the people he shot had a gun, does that automatically mean he was there looking for an excuse to shoot someone?

 

 

2 weeks prior to the shooting he is allegedly heard on video fantasizing about shooting shoplifters.

 

That's the alleged premeditation.

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

2- Both sides of council are dimwitted and incompetent

I actually think the defense has done a good job… but I’m open to the idea I’m wrong. 
 

 

[Springfield]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'd think so, if Rittenhouse was the one who initiated it.  

 

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'd think so, if Rittenhouse was the one who initiated it.  

 

Just now, tshile said:

What did he do to threaten them?

so far all we have is he put out a fire they were trying to use to burn down buildings. 

Does it even matter?

 

If it’s a matter of these 3 rioters dying or this other child dying then it’s self defense, no? Do you give up your right to defend yourself from death because you are apart of a riot?

[tshile]

I have to go deal with my eye swelling out of my head now. Idk wtf is wrong but it hurts. 
 

But even though I think there’s a clear case for self defense, if he’s found not guilty I will not be “happy”. I do not think it’s a good thing. I find the entire situation upsetting. the worst part is I have no idea what justice is in this case.  The only firm opinion I have is that I truly believe this is at the feet of the government. Across the board they’ve screwed this up, starting with handling criticism of the police. 
 

just wanted to point that out. Because with all the back and forth it starts to look like people rooting for sides. I’m not rooting for sides here. Everything’s all ****ed up. 

[Springfield]

As I understand it, if you find yourself in a Mexican standoff and you shoot first then you can claim self defense. At least that’s the Rittenhouse defense.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Springfield

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Springfield said:

Does it even matter?

um. Yes. I think that’s the whole pretense of the case. And self defense law in general

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Springfield said:

 

 

Does it even matter?

 

If it’s a matter of these 3 rioters dying or this other child dying then it’s self defense, no? Do you give up your right to defend yourself from death because you are apart of a riot?

 

What's your definition of self-defense, then?  I think if we're going to debate this, we should at least have a base-line understanding of what we're arguing about.  Let's set some goal-posts so we can't move them.

 

[Springfield]

Just now, tshile said:

um. Yes. I think that’s the whole pretense of the case. And self defense law in general

Yes, but if these guys kill Rittenhouse first then they wouldn’t have died. Self defense. Seems like logic.

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

2 weeks prior to the shooting he is allegedly heard on video fantasizing about shooting shoplifters.

 

That's the alleged premeditation.

 

I'd not heard that.  

[steve09ru]

4 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Yes, but if these guys kill Rittenhouse first then they wouldn’t have died. Self defense. Seems like logic.

but there was no aggression from Rittenhouse.  Now, if Rittenhouse had chased the guy and didn't fire his weapon and the guy turned around and shot first, then yes, that would be self-defense.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'd not heard that.  

There’s a number of things that didn’t make it into trial. 
 

regardless of how I feel about self defense claim - he certainly seems like a bad dude who went looking for trouble. 
 

🤷‍♂️ 

[86 Snyder]

15 minutes ago, tshile said:

I actually think the defense has done a good job… but I’m open to the idea I’m wrong. 
 

 

 

I cant recall specific instances off the top of my head but I know Ive seen several reports that have left me scratching my head at various times.  It is possible I'm remembering it wrong.

 

 

I think the real question here is why the **** is it not illegal to roam the streets with an AR-15.  This should be an open and shut case but instead its all a bunch of chicken and egg bull****.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[Yohan]

25 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

  

His mother should also face charges for taking him and dropping him off there. 
 

She didn't though. ADA Binger in his opening statement, Dominick Black, first witness and Rittenhouse all have stated Rittenhouse drove (unlicensed) to Kenosha the day before. The day of, Rittenhouse, Black and other then went to downtown Kenosaha.

 

13 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I think the real question here is why the **** is it not illegal to roam the streets with an AR-15. 

Honestly, until the Rittenhouse incident happened. I had no idea WI was an open carry state (I have lived here my entire, nearly 50 year life). I can not recall a time where I had seen anyone, at anytime walking around with any weapon, other then during hunting season in the north woods. I did find it odd that people were allowed to walk around with guns, considering the situation that was occurring at that time.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Yohan If she did not take him, then I stand corrected.  My error. 

[Springfield]

 

Kid can’t even join the military and you all think he’s gonna protect a business from a riot?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Springfield

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, tshile said:

Say what you want about his self defense claim. 
 

but he handled himself quite well. I would have put money in him being dead in that situation. 
 

if I were in that situation I would have only hoped I handled it that well. 

id love you see how you’d do with a mob chasing you, getting kicked/stomped in the head, hit with a skateboard, handgun involved, etc. he even stopped short of killing potential victim number 4 when he put his hands up after closing in to harm him. 
 

im not aware of a person that has actual experience with guns, that thinks differently about it (without some sort of specialized training e.g. military or swat or something)

 

he certainly didn’t panic. If he did we’d have a lot more dead people, people that didn’t physically attack him. And a much bigger and nastier mess 

 

As someone with probably more experience than most here, I’d like to say that I agree here.  Hell, he responded more appropriately than many police do who are supposed to be trained.

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

This may be the most asinine thing I’ve read.

 

What exactly is you experience level that you bring?  Just want to appropriately quantify your opinion.

 

19 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Kid can’t even join the military and you all think he’s gonna protect a business from a riot?

Why couldn’t he?

 

[Springfield]

I stand corrected.

 

Kid can’t even legally drive a car and he’s going around shooting people up.

[Dan T.]

 

[PartyPosse]

10 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I understand that's your perception, but where's the evidence that was his motive?  One of the people he shot had a gun, does that automatically mean he was there looking for an excuse to shoot someone?

 

Or do we just want to talk ourselves into thinking he was there to shoot someone because he looks like a little prick and we don't like him?

 

In regards to his post bail mannerisms, we're in agreement there.  

That's the thing about opinions and perceptions. I don't need proof or evidence. The things I base my opinion on are not admissible in court. Things like his past mannerisms, his "affiliations", the weapon itself, his age... none of these are things that can be used in a court of law, but they do affect my perception of who he is and coupled with what happened that night sway me into believing he went looking for an opportunity to be the law without understanding what it means to be the law. I think everyone involved in the situation with the exception of Gaige are all guilty of crimes, except the other two already received the worst punishments imaginable outside of being a WFT fan. 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by PartyPosse

[TradeTheBeal!]

Hot take incoming…

 

From it’s onset, BLM has been used as a cover by both fringe righty and fringe lefty to exact chaos and destruction upon our economic and political stability.  It always starts with bonafide peaceful marches in the daylight and then out come the ghouls…”which is the way he wants it, well he gets it!”…17YO ammosexual doofuses, 20something felon losers, fat ass lazy cops, the full diorama of pale suburban Twitter sophomore patriot super-genius.  Broke as a joke, armed to the teeth and so very, very stupid.

 

Whatever the jury decides to do with this bag of feral cats they’ve been handed, I hope they have enough emotional and financial stability to disappear from public view for a few months afterwards…with middle fingers held high throughout.