2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Random thought from someone that’s always been a trade down guy ...  but we have seen the impact a true blue chip talent has on this roster. If any of the blue chip players (QB included) start to slide we should be looking to trade up to grab them. This includes Smith, Waddle, Sewell, Darrisaw and Parsons. Would love to add one from this draft and leverage our extra 3 in the process. Easier said than done, but just a random thought. 
 

If the medical check out I would also include Farley in that discussion although he could be there for us at 19. 

Blue chip talent at any position and Slater, Harris, Horn, Surtain are left out of the discussion? Tsk.

[JoggingGod]

 

[RWJ]

37 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

 

JG, it might be wise to put value on a tweeter who has more than 1000 followers.  No where on twitter does Fowler say this.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I trust John above almost anyone else so I guess a FS upgrade is at least desired if available. 

 

People have waaaaaayyyy too much trust in PFF.

[JoggingGod]

35 minutes ago, RWJ said:

JG, it might be wise to put value on a tweeter who has more than 1000 followers.  No where on twitter does Fowler say this.  

He said it on ESPN (saw it on the TV at the gym). 

[DWinzit]

21 hours ago, IrepDC said:

I've been on Barnes from Purdue for a while now. He may be my favorite of the mid round LBs. In my opinion he's worth a 3rd with his flexibility to play Mike, Sam, and rush the passer. He's a high energy, downhill, tackling machine. 

 

If we miss out of the top crop of LBS, and maybe even if we get a Will backer early, Barnes would be a great mid round selection. Not a project or developmental player but one who actually has the opportunity to be a starter.

Could easily see Barnes as the first 3rd rounder if they miss on the top guys. He is impressive against the run compared to many of the other LB options and good movement skills along with his rush abilities.

 

He and Deablo have been like rays of sunshine to the LB group recently with Collins trying to grow out of MLB and medial questions with Moses.

 

Do we know if WFT ever met or even spoke with Parsons?

[DWinzit]

13 hours ago, mudhog said:

#19 Greg Newsome II CB
#51 Trey Smith OG

#74 Nick Bolton LB
#82 Tommy Tremble TE
#124 James Hudson OT
#163 Chuba Hubbard RB
#244 Shane Buchele QB
#246 Jalen Camp WR

I have seen Shane Buchele taken late on a lot of mocks here and blame @KDawg

 

If I had to grab a QB after the 5 1st rounders and 4 3rd rounders I think he would be my next up as well. My only question with his selection is what would be the expectations?

 

With all the others you must think in the back of your mind, they have starter qualities given time. With Bobby Boucher I don't see him as a starter, would the expectations be he could become a 2nd stringer in a year or two? I don't see him as a starter and there are two second stringers on the roster who can spot start.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

6 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

People have waaaaaayyyy too much trust in PFF.

I am not saying he IS the 4th best safety but clearly he played well last year. Maybe it was a product of better talent around him but it’s not something I would completely dismiss. Clearly the team isn’t bought into that because of the interest in FS in the draft. Just seems like between Reaves and Boston you’d have a decent solution while spending a high pick on a greater need. 
 

But if the FO thinks that Moehrig can be a pro bowl FS I’m sure they’d love this secondary with our DL. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

 

It seems likely one of these QBs if not both (if Jones is pick at 3) make it to 7/8/9. Depending on who we value there I definitely see us making a move. And how exciting that would be. I’m starting to think Lance or Fields will be here next year. If the Pats interest in Trask is real, we are really just competing with the Broncos for these guys. They could trade to 7 for Fields and we could trade to 8 for Lance. 
 

Detroit might prefer to deal with us. From Denver they likely get 1+2 but from us they’d get 1+3+1. Albeit you drop 10 more spots. But lions might value the 1sts next year since that would give them 3. 

[mhd24]

Some nuggets from Standig:

https://theathletic.com/2537692/2021/04/23/washington-pre-nfl-draft-notes-first-round-decisions-day-2-qbs-and-projections/?redirected=1

 

"Though he’s considered more of a guard than a tackle, Washington likely gobbles up Vera-Tucker if he’s available"

 

"The robust offensive tackle market is one reason Washington could consider trading down from No. 19 or up from No. 51. Roughly nine offensive linemen have some first-round hype and eight offer experience at tackle. Among them is Texas’ Sam Cosmi, a player whom Washington has studied"

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

McGinn's ranking of RBs, talking to NFL scouts.  It doesn't seem like they are all in agreement with the yawn Najee Harris he isn't anything special narrative that some have here.  But one guy is. 

 

Last time McGinn did his top 100, total based on the scouts he interviewed rankings, it beat every mock draft as for accuracy on draft day. 

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

7 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The character red flags about Guice were really vague at the time but apparently there where whispers of this type of stuff among front offices according to Joe Banner.  Loved his college tape.  But Guice is a case in point to take character red flags seriously. 

 

I don't personally care about stuff like Toney's rap career or real minor incidents. But a pattern that suggests bad character. 

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31321271/lsu-tigers-banning-rb-derrius-guice-firing-long-law-firm

LSU Tigers banning RB Derrius Guice, firing longtime law firm

 

LSU, which is struggling to recover from an ongoing sexual harassment scandal that involved allegations against former coach Les Miles, is in the process of banning star running back Derrius Guice indefinitely from the athletics program, a school spokesman confirmed to ESPN on Friday.

The university is also cutting ties with its longtime law firm, Taylor Porter.

The decisions are part of sweeping changes LSU is making in response to a March report from Husch Blackwell, which detailed systemic failures by LSU to appropriately report incidents of athletic-related sexual misconduct and abuse.

Guice was charged in three separate domestic violence incidents in 2020 and two women accused him of sexual assault while he was a freshman in 2016. A third LSU student alleged in 2016 that Guice had taken a partially nude photo of her without her knowledge and showed the pictures to his teammates.

The university plans to remove his statistics from the school record books.

The Husch Blackwell report also revealed that former LSU athletic director Joe Alleva recommended in 2013 that Miles be fired as head coach of the football program after accusations of inappropriate behavior with female student workers.

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

"Though he’s considered more of a guard than a tackle, Washington likely gobbles up Vera-Tucker if he’s available"

 

"The robust offensive tackle market is one reason Washington could consider trading down from No. 19 or up from No. 51. Roughly nine offensive linemen have some first-round hype and eight offer experience at tackle. Among them is Texas’ Sam Cosmi, a player whom Washington has studied"

 

 

 

IMO if LT is as important as they are saying, it must be addressed by 51 at the latest. The best option would probably be the trade down scenario and take one with that later 1st round selection. i am still a big Cosmi and Eich fan. I do not see the taking Vera and a T. Too many other holes

[RWJ]

Just now, DWinzit said:

IMO if LT is as important as they are saying, it must be addressed by 51 at the latest. The best option would probably be the trade down scenario and take one with that later 1st round selection. i am still a big Cosmi and Eich fan. I do not see the taking Vera and a T. Too many other holes

If Darrisaw or JOK are not available in the 1st then trade down.  There will be an ample LT available in the 2nd.  

[Skinsinparadise]

As for the Lance/Fields rumors

 

Fields

Keim doesn't rule out Lance but believes its Fields they like

Standig same as Keim

Sheehan thinks they like Fields

 

All three in the end don't think they trade up, they think its possible but they doin't think the stars end up aligning for them

 

Lance

Lombardi thinks they like Lance

Finlay doesn't know for sure but he said on air he asked a source with the team specifically about Lance and got the vibe they like him but doesn't know if that means they like him so much they'd trade up for him.

 

Maybe they like both guys?

 

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If Darrisaw or JOK are not available in the 1st then trade down.  There will be an ample LT available in the 2nd.  

I expect at least one or two surprise droppers. They will need to weigh their options.

I do not believe any of the second tier of LT's will be available at 51 and evidently, either does Standig by saying they would need to move up from 51

[Skinsinparadise]

not sure about Vander Esch for Jamin

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

The Lions already have multiple first rounders in both 2022 and 2023, I could see them looking to stockpile even more.

[TheGoodBits]

I’m still convinced that Lance is going to SF. The only reason they’re putting on this whole “we don’t know who we’re picking” show is because they don’t want the Jets to take a hard look at Lance. 
 

Fields and Jones will probably go between 5-15, and we’ll have the opportunity to go and get one. I’d be willing to give up next year’s 1 for Jones (to get to 7-8) or lesser compensation to get above 15 to get Fields.

These assumptions are based on the idea that the draft rumors about how much teams like each of them are true, which obviously is dubious. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Lance's lack of experience scares me, if they do move up for a QB I'm much prefer Justin Fields. I'm not sure why he is falling if the Jones to SF rumors are true.  He had a fantastic pro day and he is not Dwayne Haskins. I'd love to get Fields if that can be done without gutting our draft.  That additional 3rd for Trent is looking pretty good right now, it can be used as part of the trade up package or used on a pick in a deep draft.  

[Warhead36]

I'd be willing to give up a 1, 3, and next year's 1 to move up into the top 10. That's the limit for me. That would still leave us with this year's 2 and 3(since we have the 49ers 3, which I'm fine giving up since its the higher pick anyway)to play with.

 

Imagine trading 1, 3, and next year's 1 to move to say 8 to get Fields or Lance. Then trading our remaining 2 and 3 to get a late 1 to get one of the last remaining tier 1 OTs. Could potentially knock out franchise QB and LT in one draft and still have all our day 3 picks to throw some darts.

[CurseReversed]

13 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

 

Re: Mac Jones.    Agree with this take and I think there are a lot of teams who are looking at him like this, which is why moving up that high might be more necessary then people think.

 

Along with next level footwork and uncanny pocket awareness the third most valuable thing I saw from him was his ability to read and manipulate defenses with his body and eyes.  Even when i look at a guy like fitzpatrick play the last few seasons, I find myself comparing him to Jones and wishing Fitz had that smooth progression/fake look skill set that Jones already has.  They both actually have similar pocket agility.  Fitz can really move back there, and so can Mac. 

 

I understand the evolution to the Mahommes, Watson, and Allen prototypes as far as a QB's tools and potential but I still think the proof for long terms success goes to the guys who have instincts and agility in the pocket and who can keep their eyes downfield and deliver accurate footballs.

If you can combine the physical tools with the operational ones then all the better, but guys with both are more the outliers as far as long term success then the guys with more technique then tools.  Mahommes looks great, and Allen had a good year, but nobody else has shown any consistent success except rogers.   Guys like Wentz who looked like a sure thing,  got hurt or fell off.  Even Burrow did not last a full year without getting hurt.  Its tough to judge all the variables but I like consistency over flash for the most part.  It is true that there have been plenty of "cerebral guys" with limited tools that have failed to make it, but there have been just as many pure athletes that have also failed.  Sometimes the tools can buy you some more wins early in a career but the success rate over the long term seems to still favor other factors.   

 

 

 

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The character red flags about Guice were really vague at the time but apparently there where whispers of this type of stuff among front offices according to Joe Banner.  Loved his college tape.  But Guice is a case in point to take character red flags seriously. 

 

I don't personally care about stuff like Toney's rap career or real minor incidents. But a pattern that suggests bad character. 

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31321271/lsu-tigers-banning-rb-derrius-guice-firing-long-law-firm

LSU Tigers banning RB Derrius Guice, firing longtime law firm

 

LSU, which is struggling to recover from an ongoing sexual harassment scandal that involved allegations against former coach Les Miles, is in the process of banning star running back Derrius Guice indefinitely from the athletics program, a school spokesman confirmed to ESPN on Friday.

The university is also cutting ties with its longtime law firm, Taylor Porter.

The decisions are part of sweeping changes LSU is making in response to a March report from Husch Blackwell, which detailed systemic failures by LSU to appropriately report incidents of athletic-related sexual misconduct and abuse.

Guice was charged in three separate domestic violence incidents in 2020 and two women accused him of sexual assault while he was a freshman in 2016. A third LSU student alleged in 2016 that Guice had taken a partially nude photo of her without her knowledge and showed the pictures to his teammates.

The university plans to remove his statistics from the school record books.

The Husch Blackwell report also revealed that former LSU athletic director Joe Alleva recommended in 2013 that Miles be fired as head coach of the football program after accusations of inappropriate behavior with female student workers.

Wow......how does a school bury this? ****bag!

[Going Commando]

Been going over Cosmi's cut ups after I saw Ledyards take on him, and he has a point.  The Texas blocking schemes don't use many traditional, NFL-style vertical sets, and in situations where you think they would, Cosmi just doesn't move.  He just stays square to the line, engages, and then back pedals instead of kick stepping and sliding.  But the weird thing is, he also doesn't get beat outside.

 

Their offense is extremely RPO heavy, even more so than VT's, and Ehlinger was a big scrambler on top of that. It makes for a lot of chaotic pockets and unconventional blocking reps.  Looked like to me that his most common set was jump setting and in some games he actually blocked the three tech more than the edge player.  Very unusual right handed offense.  That partially accounts for the lack of NFL style pass blocking reps in his film, which I now suspect is the reason his draft stock can't gain traction despite his workouts.  It creates the sense that he is uncomfortable going backwards and will find ways via his scheme or grip strength or whatever janky ad hoc technique he can come up with to avoid it every rep that he can.

 

Speaking of his grip strength, it is special.  I think it's as good as Darrisaw's.  He's a powerful kid and he's explosive, which is why he clearly prefers jumping three techs to sliding and mirroring with and edge.  Pretty good hands too.  And he's definitely an explosive finisher who likes to go to the ground.  He's also got a rare ability to combo block inside and recover to a blitzer/stunter on the edge.  That speed reminds me of Andrew Thomas, and that's why I'm not totally willing to say his film looks like guard film and he's clearly going to kick inside in the NFL.  He has the speed and anchor strength and bend to stay outside with a large amount of technical development.

 

But his film does look like guard film.  That special explosiveness and strength demonstrated in how he can jump and sit down on ends and tackles from his alignment makes me think guard, and not just a good guard, but potentially a dynamic one like AVT.  Situation reminds me quite a bit of Scherff actually, who was a similar raw pass protector but athletic freak who stuck numerous high difficulty run blocks in his college film.

 

I really liked watching his cut ups and I'm fascinated by him.  He's an unusual raw talent coming from a major college program who has rare athleticism for an OL.  A piece of special clay that his NFL coach will have to totally mold.  But he's capable of running rare blocks and could let you change your run game.  I can't help but think that if you double dipped at OL by picking Cosmi and then picking either Eichenberg or Carman, that they would stay at LT (even if picked after Cosmi sequentially) and Cosmi would kick inside and you would have the ingredients of a dynamic OL.  I'd also have trust in Matsko to get him ready to play somewhere on the line, and having Cosmi would make me feel better about letting Scherff walk.