2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Be shocked.  I think he will be and most of the media think he will too. 

 

Sure seems that way.  I don't believe for a second they made this type of investment without having a specific player targeted. It's odd that we don't know who that is, it's not like they have to bluff a team so their guy will fall to them. 

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

People have waaaaaayyyy too much trust in PFF.

PFF is basically tape grinding+. Has all the strengths and weaknesses and biases of tape grinding, but at least with a key guiding how they evaluate things, and a standardized approach. There is no perfect way to do it, but PFF's approach still carries more bias than analytics, which is why I prefer pure data analytics, when like to like comparisons are reasonably possible (guys within conference for instance). Again, no perfect way to do it, and you should probably use all approaches to balance the strengths and weaknesses most effectively.

 

On another topic, I remain utterly flummoxed at Parsons still sitting this high in the draft. I expected him to get not Ray Riced, but at least La'El Collins, but no, and ftr, Collins just dated someone that died, if the stories are true about Parsons, he is a MONSTER, and a sociopath, at best, not sure why you'd draft him unless due diligence has been done and the stories are a fiction. 

 

 

 

[seantaylor=god]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley finished film reviews on Davis Mills, Mond, Trask, Newman. 

 

Cliff notes:  he doesn't think any of them deserve to be in the 2nd round.  He seems them as third rounders.  He'd rate Trask a hair over Mills and have Mond last.  He doesn't care much for Newman and would be surprised if he even goes in the mid rounds.

 

He sees Mills and Trask very similar to me.  Thus he must be right. 

 

I remember the Trask stuff more because I just listened to it.  To paraphrase what I recall.

 

A.  Overall he sees him as a backup in the league

B.  Good accuracy -- not great

C.  Big dude who stands tough in the pocket and is hard to bring down

D.  Not the best decision maker, unravels with dumb throws under pressure where he throws it up for grabs and which he hopes his playmakers (he's really impressed with Pitts and Toney) will bail him out on.

E. Arm strength is meh.  He looked better on that front on pro day.  But with live bullets in the games, he doesn't think highly of it

F.  Good touch on his throws

G.  He doesn't create well -- can make an occasional off platform throws but most of the time it looks awkward

H.  Questions his field vision

I.  Can move well in the pocket -- footwork decent at dodging pressure

J.   When things go poorly, things breakdown in the pocket, etc he has the habit of making it worse by poor decision making 

K.  Slow-lumbering at times

 

As for Mills

 

A.  Looks the part, nice size, reminds him of Peyton as for stature

B.  Throws well with anticipation.  

C.  Looks fundamentally sound -- footwork, delivery

D.  Makes bad decisions

E.  His accuracy is all over the place, it can look good but then all of a sudden he can make wildly inaccurate throws

F.  Has some athleticism, can escape pressure and move when he needs to. 

F.  He's not ready to start, he needs time to learn

 

 

Nice recap, thanks.

I don’t think any QB in the draft is a clear upgrade from what we have in Hienicke and Allen unless we trade up for Lance or Fields (which I would support). I think this is the year to do it because it allows our draft pick to sit, hopefully we will be competitive enough that Fitz gets to play the whole year and we will be fighting for the playoffs.

[RWJ]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Sure seems that way.  I don't believe for a second they made this type of investment without having a specific player targeted. It's odd that we don't know who that is, it's not like they have to bluff a team so their guy will fall to them. 

It does.  Leaves Field and Lance in play.  Does Atlanta take one of them or trade?  How far do they fall before they are drafted?  Who moves up and trades with another team for them?  Tune in next Thursday night as the NFL Draft World Turns.  LOL.  Have a good day, DGF. 

[The Consigliere]

10 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

 

 

I wonder what top 10 means. I assume it means trying to move to 7 or 8 unless they're not targeting a QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If it would 1/3/1 ; go for it.  If not; move on.  That's where I would be.

I was in on Mac at #19.  Odds are he'll be gone.  If not and we draft him, cool.  You know where I'm at now.    

 

There are a couple of people here including you if I recall wanting Mac in a big way.  But I feel some attachment to Mac even though I wasn't as high on him.  Considering I probably posted more about Mac during the college season than anyone and explained his attributes in more detail than I can recall anyone else.  I did it at the period where there was a lot of discussion about Trask/Jones and can they actually be NFL starters and who is better?   When I started doing it, Mac was somewhat of a marginal prospect with the mock draft types.  I think I took on that fight harder than anyone as for Mac versus Trask back when it was a real debate.  Now that debate seems mostly dead where its turned to Mac versus Fields/Lance.  But I've paid as much dues on Mac than anyone here.  

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There are a couple of people here including you if I recall wanting Mac in a big way.  But I feel some attachment to Mac even though I wasn't as high on him.  Considering I probably posted more about Mac during the college season than anyone and explained his attributes in more detail than I can recall anyone else.  I did it at the period where there was a lot of discussion about Trask/Jones and can they actually be NFL starters and who is better?   When I started doing it, Mac was somewhat of a marginal prospect with the mock draft types.  I think I took on that fight harder than anyone as for Mac versus Trask back when it was a real debate.  Now that debate seems mostly dead where its turned to Mac versus Fields/Lance.  But I've paid as much dues on Mac than anyone here.  

I hear ya, SIP.  I'm at peace with the Mac situation.  I am more focused in on Darrisaw now as my 1st choice and he's likely drafted before our pick and then the focus turns to JOK which is very likely he's there if we want to draft him at #19.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think I'd be the only really happy one around here on Friday:ols:

 

I'd be cool.  I am sure I will jinx myself by continually saying this but I'll have a hard time getting upset I think at 19.  So many players I like but just to different extents and not by much of a margin.  It's part of the reason why I'd love to trade down.  Moehrig IMO is one of the highest floor prospects in the range of our pick. 

 

For me right now (as for realistic possibilities)

1.  Christian Darrisaw

2.  Koramoah

3.  Tevin Jenkins

4. Najee Harris

5. Jamin Davis

6. Trevon Moehrig

7.  Zaven Collins

8.  Elijah Moore

9. Rashod Bateman

10.  Travis Etienne

11. Greg Newsome

 

I'd be happy with anyone of them.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

30 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If it would 1/3/1 ; go for it.  If not; move on.  That's where I would be.

Could also possibly throw in an IDL if it’s Detroit. Offer 19, Ionidis, and next year’s 1st. Basically value Ionn between a 2/3rd and you keep your full slate of picks this year. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

PFF is basically tape grinding+. Has all the strengths and weaknesses and biases of tape grinding, but at least with a key guiding how they evaluate things, and a standardized approach. There is no perfect way to do it, but PFF's approach still carries more bias than analytics, which is why I prefer pure data analytics, when like to like comparisons are reasonably possible (guys within conference for instance). Again, no perfect way to do it, and you should probably use all approaches to balance the strengths and weaknesses most effectively.

 

PFF's grades are mostly guided from TV Footage, they occasionally change them after All-22 comes out, but in general it's just TV.  I think the basic premise is flawed.

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The character red flags about Guice were really vague at the time but apparently there where whispers of this type of stuff among front offices according to Joe Banner.  Loved his college tape.  But Guice is a case in point to take character red flags seriously. 

 

I don't personally care about stuff like Toney's rap career or real minor incidents. But a pattern that suggests bad character. 

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31321271/lsu-tigers-banning-rb-derrius-guice-firing-long-law-firm

LSU Tigers banning RB Derrius Guice, firing longtime law firm

 

LSU, which is struggling to recover from an ongoing sexual harassment scandal that involved allegations against former coach Les Miles, is in the process of banning star running back Derrius Guice indefinitely from the athletics program, a school spokesman confirmed to ESPN on Friday.

The university is also cutting ties with its longtime law firm, Taylor Porter.

The decisions are part of sweeping changes LSU is making in response to a March report from Husch Blackwell, which detailed systemic failures by LSU to appropriately report incidents of athletic-related sexual misconduct and abuse.

Guice was charged in three separate domestic violence incidents in 2020 and two women accused him of sexual assault while he was a freshman in 2016. A third LSU student alleged in 2016 that Guice had taken a partially nude photo of her without her knowledge and showed the pictures to his teammates.

The university plans to remove his statistics from the school record books.

The Husch Blackwell report also revealed that former LSU athletic director Joe Alleva recommended in 2013 that Miles be fired as head coach of the football program after accusations of inappropriate behavior with female student workers.

 

Yep, now we know why he inexplicably fell so far in 2018. He was the running back 2A or 2B in that draft for people that trusted Chubb (he hadn't shown he was all the way back from his terrible knee injuries years earlier (his in game performance had never showed the same explosion again, but then at the combine, he was a revelation, why didn't it show on the field? Maybe it just took time? Odd coincidence that he was finally all the way back just in time for the combine). I just remember that in time for that draft, there was a great RB class in terms of top 50-60 type talents:

1.Barkley-Easy

2. This one was hard, I had Chubb ahead of Barkley after their freshman years, but then Chubb had the terrible injury and Guice was a monster.

2A Guice

2B Chubb

 

Then you had the rest: Ronald Jones-Like the analytics people, I was not buying, Rashaad Penny-I was buying, whoops, Sony Michel-I thought he looked as good as Chubb, maybe more explosive with Georgia, then came the knee issue concerns (arthritis), Kerryon Johnson-People weren't sure if he was athletic enough, Royce Freeman-Was he a little too slow? 

 

This was also a draft filled to the rim with interesting late day 2 and day 3 type options:

Chase Edmonds

Justin Jackson

Mark Walton

John Kelly

Kalen Ballage

Nyheim Hines

Jaylen Samuels

Akrum Wadley

Josh Adams

Roc Thomas

Ito Smith

Bo Scarbrough

Phillip Lindsay

 

It's kind of crazy to think about it: I still think most of those guys on the late list were legit RB prospects who might have made it in the right situation, but a lot of them didn't and so they all mostly faded. Edmonds, Jackson, Hines, Adams, Ito, and Lindsay have all had moments, the rest mostly faded.

 

In the end my rankings were basically:

1.Barkley

2.Guice

3.Chubb

4. Michel

5. Penny

6. Kerryon

7.R. Freeman

8. Ronald Jones

 

Then I had targeted: Chase Edmonds, Justin Jackson, Mark Walton, and Ito Smith. 

 

In retrospect, it's a disappointing draft, but also a reminder that for RB's, you really shouldn't invest top draft capital, you should wait for values. If you can get guys like Dalvin Cook, and Joe Mixon in round 2 in '17, and Guice, Chubb, and Kerryon in round 2 in '18, along with Edmonds, Jackson and Lindsay on day 3 in '18, Miles Sanders on day 2 in '19, guys like Swift, Taylor, and Akers in round 2 in '20, and Gibson in round 3, there's literally no reason EVER to take a RB in round 1. 

 

This is why I think the Harris and Etienne talk is just flat out insane. This is a bad RB draft, and Harris is 2 years older than what an ideal RB should be in his draft year (Swift, Taylor, and Akers are all younger than Harris by more than a year if memory serves for instance), RB career production has crashed over the last decade+ repeatedly at age 26/27. You basically get most of his rookie deal, and then that's a rap on the value of Harris if his career plays out the way most RB's do (and the latest elite examples from the '15 and '16 classes as well). This makes ZERO sense to me. 

 

I'm alarmed that he didn't work out, because now Javonte Williams takes a hit for a bad pro day (just like all of UNC, they did a disservice to their players by not cheating the way so many other schools did lol), while Harris will skate on at best, opaque understandings of his top end speed, acceleration, and 3 cone, as well as his explosion, but whatever, that's fine, he was going 1 or 2 no matter what based on scouting reports. I just see no purpose in doing so. He'll turn 24 six months before his 2nd season even kicks off. It just makes no sense to take him. Give me Etienne, whose at least nearly a year younger, or Javonte whose two years younger, or best of all, skip all of them and be happy that we have Gibson, McKissic and Samuel, and that's just fine. If they want to speculate on a RB, they can always dig in on day 3 and throw a dart at a guy who can also play some special teams. There are a few guys that are worth a dart throw: 

Chris Evans: Wasted stud at Michigan

Elijah Mitchell: Interesting

Kylin Hill: Top prospect who sat out the year and has dropped a bunch

Chubba Hubbard: Disastrous season reminded people why guys should always err on going out early, rather than late. Seems to be explosive speed, and pass catching, but not much juke to his game.

Jermar Jefferson: Disastrous pro day might ruin him, but I still am interested if you can steal him late day 3. He was a flat out stud since age 18. Always interesting.

 

No chance I use a top 100 pick on a RB in this class, it just doesn't make sense. We should target guys day 3, or just wait until the much better '23 class ('22 looks even worse beyond the top 2 guys). 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

PFF's grades are mostly guided from TV Footage, they occasionally change them after All-22 comes out, but in general it's just TV.  I think the basic premise is flawed.

 

PFF isn't gospel.  But even if Cooley who has been a critic of them finds them useful at times.   You have to factor context with them.  When I did my own grading of players for example and I'd see missed tackles when watching and look at PFF's ratings on that front it would match up well.   And it would be useful to look at some of the grades on certain fronts.  They'd tell me snaps in the box versus outside the box, slot versus outside snaps, YAC, among many variables so they help paint the picture IMO. 

 

The thing is PFF doesn't even take their metrics that literally when it comes to their own rankings of players.  I showcase that well in the player rankings I posted here.  You could see that many players PFF have higher draft grades than the actual metric grades because when they judge the player even PFF tries to factor sample size, context, level of competition, etc.  Some of the PFF metric grades when you match them to PFF draft grades are actually confounding.  But not so much when you factor that even they will try to factor other variables in making their final grade where they use their grades as one tool but not the only one.

 

From what I read, every NFL team subscribes to PFF's higher end analytics subscription so I gather they find something useful from them.  As do I.  But to me they are a variable -- not the only variable.  I've argued against their stats as to certain players.  And I've argued in favor of their stats on others.  But again it depends on context.  

[dyst]

Why are people knocking PFF, when pretty much every avenue is similarly uncertain. Front office personnel and coaches get it wrong at almost a similar rate, which is why guys like Doctson, Cravens, Sprinkle etc get drafted and bust. 

[Anselmheifer]

I could be down for Moerhig. Can anybody here give a comparative argument for Moerhig over Jevon Holland?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

In retrospect, it's a disappointing draft, but also a reminder that for RB's, you really shouldn't invest top draft capital, you should wait for values. If you can get guys like Dalvin Cook, and Joe Mixon in round 2

 

If I recall from other posts you are more numbers >>> eyes.    But you are paying your scouts to make decisions that factor numbers but aren't slaves to them.  For example, I am on board with the idea that RBs are better to take later in the draft.  Also to some degree ditto but to a lesser extent on Wrs. 

 

I do buy into the numbers that O line is one of the safer spots to take early.  Passing game >> running game.  On and on.  But if you think a RB is special and much better than the next player below them on your board (and much better than the next RB on your board) -- everything being equal take the RB.    If the next position spot is close to your RB as for the rankings of players then take the nonRB.

 

I get the point that if they think they know who the best RB is, they might end up wrong.  But IMO you don't operate your decisions on not trusting your scouts because of other team's mistakes or past regimes.

 

There is usually context behind things.  We can fit narratives neatly to make a point.  But its not always that neat.

 

For example, it takes some repackaging to make your narrative fit to your point above.  McCaffrey the season before was regarded as an MVP candidate.   Fournette was clearly over drafted but its not as if players at other positions don't bomb in the first round. We can pretend that Cook and Mixon weren't ballyhooed prospects and there was little context around either guy -- but that wouldn't be true.

 

Mixon dropped ironically because of character issues so he would defeat my point about Guice.  There were major red flags about him back then which proved to be nothing to worry about.  Ditto Dalvin Cook albeit the concerns weren't as intense.   Dalvin Cook early on in the process was sometimes in the top 15 in mocks.  But fell it seemed when different rumors came out about the type of people he hung out with.  He wasn't some lesser seen prospect at the time. 

 

Now we can talk about him as some random RB who who seen as a 2nd tier RB at the time.  But I know that isn't true because I had a massive man crush on him and wanted him in that draft and followed his narrative closely.  

 

 

https://fanbuzz.com/nfl/mel-kiper-says-neither-leonard-fournette-dalvin-cook-is-the-most-talented-back-in-the-nfl-draft/

Kiper told Jason Lisk of the Big Lead he thinks it’s former Oklahoma running back Joe Mixon.

“On talent, and on ability, the kid averaged over 6 yards a carry in 9 games this year, he averaged almost 15 yards a catch, he had a 97-yard kickoff return against Ohio State, he’s 228 pounds and he ran 4.43 He was a top kid coming out of high school, so he’s an elite–like [Leonard] Fournette– to me he’s a better back than Fournette, on talent,” Kiper said.

 

https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/acc/florida-state/mel-kiper-predicts-the-nations-best-running-back-getting-drafted-by-the-nfls-worst-team/

 

“After picking Myles Garrett No. 1, this would give the Browns two prospects in the top five of my Big Board,” Kiper writes. “Cook is a speedy home-run hitter who rushed for 4,464 yards and had 48 total touchdowns in three seasons for the Seminoles. Cleveland also could look at an offensive lineman, cornerback or linebacker.”

While it’s quite the compliment to go in the first round even the first 15, Cook might be hoping for the next update of Kiper’s mock draft. Cleveland is just not a place anyone wants to go if they’re trying to win games.

 

 

[skinny21]

Gotta figure Darrisaw goes before 19, and Jenkins, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Radunz, and maybe Little and even Carman go before 51.  There are still some interesting guys that will be available between our 2nd and 3rd round picks, but then you start questioning whether they’ll be BPA. 

If the FO has a tackle they really like (they won’t like all the above) in the early 2nd, I expect them to look at trading 51 and our latter 3rd for an earlier 2nd and a 4th - Denver and Carolina would be fair trades value-wise I believe.  Pick up a potential starter at tackle and don’t reduce our pick total, sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I could be down for Moerhig. Can anybody here give a comparative argument for Moerhig over Jevon Holland?

 

They are pretty close IMO.  Good comparison.  From the games I watched Holland gets fooled a little more by double moves, etc.  But they are close.  I think Moehrig, Holland, Grant, Cisco are really close though not with the exact same strengths/weaknesses.  That's my main beef for taking Moehrig early. 

 

The guy that really jumps at me athletically is Divine Deablo.  226 pounds, 4.44 speed, length.  He's a good tackler.  Not bad as far as movement in pass coverage.   Watching him though he doesn't seem to have the instincts that the top safeties do -- he seems often a beat behind the play.  Wonder though with his tools he could be coached up?

 

 

 

 

[CurseReversed]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Manipulating defenses with his body and his eyes has been my mantra about Mac Jones on this thread for about 6 months so naturally I agree.   He's really good for that reason with play action.  Ditto I've harped on his footwork under pressure which I think is nifty. 

 

I went to battle for Mac a lot during the college season when there was a phase where national media types compared Trask and Jones as apples to apples.  I said Mac >>>> Trask.  I still feel that way and even more strongly.  i was cool taking him at 19 even though he wasn't my top pick.

 

My concerns about Mac was arm zip coupled with he's not really an off script guy.  One thing he had in common with Trask is he had many wide open receivers and relied some on contested catches so it was hard to evaluate him on tight window throws or judging how he'd perform with ordinary talent.  And PFF didn't rank Mac highly on the tight window throws he threw for whatever that's worth. 

 

Having said that, I've said the one thing many coaches say seperate QBs are intangibles -- smarts, work ethic.  Just about every QB gets a fluff article or two on that front so I look for various sources saying the same tune.  And as for Mac, I keep reading he's the best interview and comes off the most advanced among the QBs.  Between that and the stories about how he's a maniac of a worker -- to me it makes him a top 10 pick.  Before I took him as a backhalf of the first round/early 2nd type. 

 

Albert Breer says some teams have him graded as a 2nd rounder. But it seems like some teams have him ranked high, too.  The weird thing about Jones, Fields and Lance is there is high variance of opnions about all three if you judge it purely on draft rumors.  I am fascinated to see what happens with all three on draft night because its so hard to get a beat on it. 

 

 

 I read much of what I knew about Mac on here from your posts before I ever went back and watched his cutups. Same for almost every other player I pretend to have insight on.  You always have great content to learn from and build on.   Thanks for that.  

 

As far as Jones goes. I think we see a lot of other QB' with his physical limitations fail and we think it is no longer possible to succeed with them, but really, it is just so hard to succeed, period.  Especially over a long period of time.  Brady won countless games with checkdowns and Brees won with hundreds of short passes.  How do you measure those intangibles that made them great?  I am sure there are smarter dudes then me getting paid to figure it out, but in the case of Jones, I would tend to agree if they saw something great in him.

You might end up being exactly right about his draft possibilities if the WFT slips into the top 10 and he is the only guy left at their spot.  I wouldn't mind it.  But I think Lance and Fields are pretty good bets too.

 

I definitely think there are at least 5 QB's this year that are way better then Haskins was when he came out.  It seems like a good opportunity to get one of them.   

[Warhead36]

If PItts falls to 7 I wonder if he'd be someone we're interested in trading up for. Like lets say 1-2-3 go QB and then 4 and 6 go QB(via trades). Bengals will probably take Jamar Chase at 5.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

PFF's grades are mostly guided from TV Footage, they occasionally change them after All-22 comes out, but in general it's just TV.  I think the basic premise is flawed.

 

I agree to a certain extent, but I do appreciate that they have a clear systematized approach for evaluating, and then do it, watching every play, and grading, rather than vague collections of video with comments. But it's still just looking at tape, and carrying all the biases you've got into the process. 

 

I think there's value, but I also think it's limited. 

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

If PItts falls to 7 I wonder if he'd be someone we're interested in trading up for. Like lets say 1-2-3 go QB and then 4 and 6 go QB(via trades). Bengals will probably take Jamar Chase at 5.

He won't, all teams not taking a QB, will be considering whether they should take Pitts. He seems like a 1000% lock to go 4-6, probably 4. 

 

Seems like for now:

4. Pitts

5. Chase

6. Sewell 

 

I think Pitts and Chase are nearly guaranteed to go in the 4-6 window. I suppose someone might take Smith over Chase, so there is a possibility there, and the Bengals are the team that might do that. I think it's a lock that the Bengals go WR or TE at 5 basically. I don't understand why they aren't taking an OL, they should just trade down if they don't like the value at slot for OL, they have to fix the OL or they're gonna "Luck/David Carr" Burrow. 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Yeah I agree. It would take some weird circumstances for Pitts to drop to 7 and even then I think the Lions would just straight take him. Personally I don't see anyone trading with the Falcons and they'll end up just taking Pitts at 4.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

 I read much of what I knew about Mac on here from your posts before I ever went back and watched his cutups. Same for almost every other player I pretend to have insight on.  You always have great content to learn from and build on.   Thanks for that.  

 

As far as Jones goes. I think we see a lot of other QB' with his physical limitations fail and we think it is no longer possible to succeed with them, but really, it is just so hard to succeed, period.  Especially over a long period of time.  Brady won countless games with checkdowns and Brees won with hundreds of short passes.  How do you measure those intangibles that made them great?  I am sure there are smarter dudes then me getting paid to figure it out, but in the case of Jones, I would tend to agree if they saw something great in him.

You might end up being exactly right about his draft possibilities if the WFT slips into the top 10 and he is the only guy left at their spot.  I wouldn't mind it.  But I think Lance and Fields are pretty good bets too.

 

I definitely think there are at least 5 QB's this year that are way better then Haskins was when he came out.  It seems like a good opportunity to get one of them.   

 

I don't associate all those things you mention with Brady and Brees as intangibles.  They both have very good field vision, have good pocket presence, know how to manipulate a defense.  Neither has a rocket but both can make all the throws including going deep.    The intangibles would be how hard they work at mastering their craft, how much they study, do their teammates like/trust them?

 

Mike Shanahan, Joe Gibbs among others said the main intangible is work ethic.  And to an extent football intelligence and leadership.  They've said they don't know a player's intangibles fully until they are in the building and see it in action.   At least judging by leaks from scouts, etc -- the two QBs who have jumped out as far as intangibles based on interviews and things they've heard from their coaches are Mac Jones and Trey Lance. 

 

I get the sense from beat guys their top target would be Fields, maybe Lance.  Haven't heard anything about Jones aside from Keim in a podcost suggesting he doesn't think Jones would be a target but I forgot how he said it. 

 

[CurseReversed]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There are a couple of people here including you if I recall wanting Mac in a big way.  But I feel some attachment to Mac even though I wasn't as high on him.  Considering I probably posted more about Mac during the college season than anyone and explained his attributes in more detail than I can recall anyone else.  I did it at the period where there was a lot of discussion about Trask/Jones and can they actually be NFL starters and who is better?   When I started doing it, Mac was somewhat of a marginal prospect with the mock draft types.  I think I took on that fight harder than anyone as for Mac versus Trask back when it was a real debate.  Now that debate seems mostly dead where its turned to Mac versus Fields/Lance.  But I've paid as much dues on Mac than anyone here.  

Who could have known all that hype would have pushed him up to being a potential 3rd overall?   I mean, where can you go from there except backwards?  Nobody blames you if you tug the reigns a little now. haha

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If PItts falls to 7 I wonder if he'd be someone we're interested in trading up for. Like lets say 1-2-3 go QB and then 4 and 6 go QB(via trades). Bengals will probably take Jamar Chase at 5.

 

Keim has said multiple times they love Pitts and would trade up for Pitts if possible.  He didn't say how intense that desire is though.  Based on draft rumors, Pitts though is likely going somewhere between 4-6.

 

I wonder if P. Sewell is a trade target?  Looks like there is a good shot he falls to 8-9 range.  

 

4 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

Who could have known all that hype would have pushed him up to being a potential 3rd overall?   I mean, where can you go from there except backwards?  Nobody blames you if you tug the reigns a little now. haha

 

The top 10 will be fascinating for me.  Rumors are over the place.  Depending on the mock, Lance, Jones, Fields could drop all the way to 15 or also go #3.   At this point I got no idea.  Breer has been the one I noticed playing down the hype on Mac Jones based on what he's heard but i haven't noticed if he changed his tune on that front in the last week or so. 

[Warhead36]

The draft starts at 3 with what the 9ers do. Its going to be the catalyst for the rest of the draft.

 

If they do indeed take Mac Jones, I think the chances of us moving up for a QB might be close to 50% if not over.