2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I’d be willing to give up a 1, 3, and next year's 1 to move up into the top 10. That's the limit for me. That would still leave us with this year's 2 and 3(since we have the 49ers 3, which I'm fine giving up since its the higher pick anyway)to play with.

I could see us trying to keep our day 2 picks this year, going say #19 plus a first and third from 2022.

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Wow......how does a school bury this? ****bag!

 

That blurb pinned it on Les Miles, who sounds like a dirtbag himself.  But Orgeron was also definitely involved in burying the allegations against Guice at LSU too.  A sign of things changing for that school would be for people to actually recognize his role in what happened with Guice and for him to for him to start catching heat, but I haven't seen any of that so far.  Looks like they're going to do a lot of window dressing firings of no consequence to protect Orgeron.

[mhd24]

I'm thinking my Baltimore take idea (19+51 for 27+31) would be good for both sides (especially if Baltimore is able to nab Phillips/Paye at 19 (they won't be there at 27).

 

We could take Eitienne at 27 and take the best tackle/LB available at 31 (or just trade down and recoup some lost value).

SteveMcqueen:  Here is Mcginn on Eitienne (You were 100% on the money about his background as a quiet non-nonsense type of player)

 

"

2. Travis Etienne, Clemson (5-foot-10, 215 pounds, 4.44 in the 40, Round 1-2): Was seventh in the Heisman Trophy voting as a sophomore in 2018 and ninth in 2019.

“These days, people don’t want to take running backs in the first round,” one scout said. “But, man, I would consider him there because he is just so explosive. People will be enamored with his home-run ability and the change of pace. He can press the defense, stick his foot in the ground and haul ass.”

Was Clemson’s last commitment in the 2017 class out of Jennings, La. “Kind-hearted, quiet, low-key guy,” a second scout said. “Has some ‘aw shucks,’ naïve innocence to him. Doesn’t want the limelight or to step on anyone’s toes. Can be too passive. Coachable. Loves football.”

Didn’t start a game as a freshman but still led the Tigers in rushing before starting the past three seasons. Finished with 686 carries for 4,952 yards (7.2) and 70 TDs plus 102 receptions. “He’s more like an in-line, hard-charging type guy,” a third scout said. “I don’t think he’s a natural. This guy is, ‘Here’s the hole. Let me hit it as hard as possible.’ He’s not that nifty. He does have burst. His hands are OK. He’d be a nice rotational starter.”

Led the top 12 backs in the 40 and the broad jump (10 feet, 8 inches). “I’m not a fan,” said a fourth scout. “Product of the system. Everything is opened up for him.”

Neither Etienne nor any of the other top running backs have been marked by teams as a significant medical risk. “He benefits from big-ass holes,” said a fifth scout. “They use him well in the passing game. His feet and body control, he’s kind of all over the place. He doesn’t play big.”

"

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

I'm thinking my Baltimore take idea (19+51 for 27+31) would be good for both sides (especially if Baltimore is able to nab Phillips/Paye at 19 (they won't be there at 27).

 

We could take Eitienne at 27 and take the best tackle/LB available at 31 (or just trade down and recoup some lost value).

I'd be okay with that deal. I think we could take Jamin Davis at 27 and the best remaining tier 1 OT at 31(Eichenberg maybe? or Leatherwood).

[mhd24]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I'd be okay with that deal. I think we could take Jamin Davis at 27 and the best remaining tier 1 OT at 31(Eichenberg maybe? or Leatherwood).

 

 

Honestly, I could see Vegas doing that same deal (to jump Miami who is looking at edge at 18).  Vegas could take Eichenberg at 27 (to solve their glaring RT hole) and BPA at 31.

[Anselmheifer]

McQueen, Cosmi an interesting prospect to me for us. I wouldn’t hate him at 19 but would love him in a move back.

[RWJ]

59 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I expect at least one or two surprise droppers. They will need to weigh their options.

I do not believe any of the second tier of LT's will be available at 51 and evidently, either does Standig by saying they would need to move up from 51

Possible about what Standig and you think but I believe a second tier LT will drop and we go JOK in 1st and second tier LT in 2nd.

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd be willing to give up a 1, 3, and next year's 1 to move up into the top 10. That's the limit for me. That would still leave us with this year's 2 and 3(since we have the 49ers 3, which I'm fine giving up since its the higher pick anyway)to play with.

 

Imagine trading 1, 3, and next year's 1 to move to say 8 to get Fields or Lance. Then trading our remaining 2 and 3 to get a late 1 to get one of the last remaining tier 1 OTs. Could potentially knock out franchise QB and LT in one draft and still have all our day 3 picks to throw some darts.

IF that would be the price for moving to #8 but to move 11 spots is gonna cost more than that, WH.  

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, RWJ said:

 

IF that would be the price for moving to #8 but to move 11 spots is gonna cost more than that, WH.  

I'm not sure it will. In 2017 the Chiefs moved up from 27 to 10(17 spots)for the same compensation(1st and 3rd in current year, and future 1st).

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not sure it will. In 2017 the Chiefs moved up from 27 to 10(17 spots)for the same compensation(1st and 3rd in current year, and future 1st).

Do you think it's possible with the demand and supply for QBs the year increases the price?  That's what I am taking into account.

[CurseReversed]

It might be likely that the WFT likes Fields, Lance and Jones.  They figure no matter how it shakes out they are likely to land one if they get in the top ten.  Looking at it this way they don't have to wait for draft night to see how it shakes out ahead of them, they can negotiate a deal and pick a spot ahead of time.  If they can get away with something reasonable, I think its a good strategy.   All three of those guys seem like pretty good investments.

 

[Going Commando]

Also been going over the Alabama offense to understand why Mac Jones is about to go #3 and I still don't really see it with him.  I don't see special accuracy, which is what his fans are hanging their hat on with him.  He throws high and late a lot, including on throws to the flats.  He doesn't put the ball on the money for you with the consistency, but I do acknowledge that could be a product of a lack of starts.  He could end up being a much better thrower with more reps at the next level, and he did get better from the start of the year to the end.

 

I also see why people love Waddle.  God damn is he an explosive leaper with rare body control.  He showed out big against Missouri and I understand why so many people think he's better than Smitty.  Not saying I agree with that take, but I at least see where they are coming from.

 

What I don't see at all is the love for Leatherwood.  His film is lousy and I think he's going to bust.  He can't run block because he's so soft despite how big and explosive he is so I wouldn't play him at guard.  He can't bend his knees or sit down in his stance at all because he's so stiff and top heavy so I wouldn't play him at tackle either.  He's the highest set of pads at the LoS every time he's in a 2 pt stance.  He gets planted on his ass by little guys because of how striaght up and down he plays.  He gives up multiple edge pressures a game after some soft hand fighting because he doesn't have good hands, he stops working his feet after contact too often, and he's not a tenacious competitor.

 

And I'm not throwing out his terrible senior bowl week either.  Getting his ass whipped every which way by future NFL talent is a preview of things to come with Leatherwood IMO.  I honestly don't think the kid can play.  I wouldn't draft him and I don't really see what the path to make him better in the NFL is with him.  I'm a Mac Jones bear but I'm a much bigger fan of him and his NFL potential than Leatherwood's.  I can see the building blocks of an NFL game with Jones.  I don't with Leatherwood.  I can't believe they gave this kid an Outland trophy.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

22 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Do you think it's possible with the demand and supply for QBs the year increases the price?  That's what I am taking into account.

The Chiefs example plus a few mocks ive seen have suggested this is a rough trade value to that spot. 
 

Chad Reuters most recent mock draft had Chicago trading 20, 83 and 2022 1st for 8. 
 

I agree that 1/2/1 is steep. If both Lance and Fields are there at 7 or 8 then we hve a big more bargaining power. 1/3/1 should get it done. Or we could go 1/4/1/3 next year. But I think 1/3/1 gets it done. 

[CurseReversed]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Also been going over the Alabama offense to understand why Mac Jones is about to go #3 and I still don't really see it with him.  I don't see special accuracy, which is what his fans are hanging their hat on with him.  He throws high and late a lot, including on throws to the flats.  He doesn't put the ball on the money for you with the consistency, but I do acknowledge that could be a product of a lack of starts.  He could end up being a much better thrower with more reps at the next level, and he did get better from the start of the year to the end.

 

I also see why people love Waddle.  God damn is he an explosive leaper with rare body control.  He showed out big against Missouri and I understand why so many people think he's better than Smitty.  Not saying I agree with that take, but I at least see where they are coming from.

 

What I don't see at all is the love for Leatherwood.  His film is lousy and I think he's going to bust.  He can't run block because he's so soft despite how big and explosive he is so I wouldn't play him at guard.  He can't bend his knees or sit down in his stance at all because he's so stiff and top heavy so I wouldn't play him at tackle either.  He's the highest set of pads at the LoS every time he's in a 2 pt stance.  He gets planted on his ass by little guys because of how striaght up and down he plays.  He gives up multiple edge pressures a game after some soft hand fighting because he doesn't have good hands, he stops working his feet after contact too often, and he's not a tenacious competitor.

 

And I'm not throwing out his terrible senior bowl week either.  Getting his ass whipped every which way by future NFL talent is a preview of things to come with Leatherwood IMO.  I honestly don't think the kid can play.  I wouldn't draft him and I don't really see what the path to make him better in the NFL is with him.  I'm a Mac Jones bear but I'm a much bigger fan of him and his NFL potential than Leatherwood's.  I can see the building blocks of an NFL game with Jones.  I don't with Leatherwood.  I can't believe they gave this kid an Outland trophy.

The key to watching Jones is to watch the safeties and LB's respond to his eyes and body right after the ball is snapped.  He is so smooth with some of his mechanics you can barely notice it without watching how the defenders react.  The Alabama scheme was good because it utilized him being able to control the football field with fakes and movement. His reads were on more then most because the scheme and the players were both superior, but thats why he threw for 80% and not 70%.  Its hard to judge him with so much talent but he never lost a game and destroyed lots of good teams.  I don't know if its possible to have a better year. 

[Going Commando]

33 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

McQueen, Cosmi an interesting prospect to me for us. I wouldn’t hate him at 19 but would love him in a move back.

 

He's as big a project at 19 as Jamin Davis would be truth be told.  But OTs go earlier than expected and LBers go later.

 

I still really like him and I think a trade back where we still get him would be perfect.  I love that Baltimore scenario where we get 27 and 31 because I think it could put a Cosmi + Eichenberg first round in play, which could be a punishing OL tandem.  But absent that, I like a class where we hedge our bets with Cosmi at OT by drafting another LT with him.  Carman or Radunz or even Spencer Brown are my three favorites.  I think there is a real chance that Cosmi kicks inside in the NFL, especially if he ends up on a team where he has to play as a rookie.  Following the Scherff path.  But I also don't see that as a bad outcome for him because I think he could be a dominant guard, and it would also give him a path to early playing time here.

 

I could see Charles taking over the LT spot and Cosmi starting at LG next season.

 

Let's say we get him on a trade down where we basically pick up a second.  Then you put a dream scenario in play for me where we get both Asante Samuel Jr and Rondale Moore instead of having to make that brutal choice between them.  Then we still have our thirds and can pick Carman and Trask or whoever, Tremble/Jordan, etc. instead of having to package them together to go up and get the other one of Samuel/Rondale.

[bakedtater1]

So what's everyone's take on what we're going to do this year in the draft?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

18 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So what's everyone's take on what we're going to do this year in the draft?

Trade 19/82 and 2022 1st to Carolina to draft Lance.

[Anselmheifer]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/23/26-years-ago-raiders-picked-a-player-who-chose-religion-over-football/
 

Bruce Allen...😂

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, CurseReversed said:

Re: Mac Jones.    Agree with this take and I think there are a lot of teams who are looking at him like this, which is why moving up that high might be more necessary then people think.

 

Along with next level footwork and uncanny pocket awareness the third most valuable thing I saw from him was his ability to read and manipulate defenses with his body and eyes.  Even when i look at a guy like fitzpatrick play the last few seasons, I find myself comparing him to Jones and wishing Fitz had that smooth progression/fake look skill set that Jones already has.  They both actually have similar pocket agility.  Fitz can really move back there, and so can Mac.

 

 

 

 

Manipulating defenses with his body and his eyes has been my mantra about Mac Jones on this thread for about 6 months so naturally I agree.   He's really good for that reason with play action.  Ditto I've harped on his footwork under pressure which I think is nifty. 

 

I went to battle for Mac a lot during the college season when there was a phase where national media types compared Trask and Jones as apples to apples.  I said Mac >>>> Trask.  I still feel that way and even more strongly.  i was cool taking him at 19 even though he wasn't my top pick.

 

My concerns about Mac was arm zip coupled with he's not really an off script guy.  One thing he had in common with Trask is he had many wide open receivers and relied some on contested catches so it was hard to evaluate him on tight window throws or judging how he'd perform with ordinary talent.  And PFF didn't rank Mac highly on the tight window throws he threw for whatever that's worth. 

 

Having said that, I've said the one thing many coaches say seperate QBs are intangibles -- smarts, work ethic.  Just about every QB gets a fluff article or two on that front so I look for various sources saying the same tune.  And as for Mac, I keep reading he's the best interview and comes off the most advanced among the QBs.  Between that and the stories about how he's a maniac of a worker -- to me it makes him a top 10 pick.  Before I took him as a backhalf of the first round/early 2nd type. 

 

Albert Breer says some teams have him graded as a 2nd rounder. But it seems like some teams have him ranked high, too.  The weird thing about Jones, Fields and Lance is there is high variance of opnions about all three if you judge it purely on draft rumors.  I am fascinated to see what happens with all three on draft night because its so hard to get a beat on it. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Moehrig.  I was thinking about it.  He reminds me some of Xavier McKinney in coverage who i liked. He's better than McKinney in coverage.  But they both struck me as really assignment strong and had a good feel for what the opponent's Qbs tendencies and game plan. 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

54 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The Chiefs example plus a few mocks ive seen have suggested this is a rough trade value to that spot. 
 

Chad Reuters most recent mock draft had Chicago trading 20, 83 and 2022 1st for 8. 
 

I agree that 1/2/1 is steep. If both Lance and Fields are there at 7 or 8 then we hve a big more bargaining power. 1/3/1 should get it done. Or we could go 1/4/1/3 next year. But I think 1/3/1 gets it done. 

If it would 1/3/1 ; go for it.  If not; move on.  That's where I would be.

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Manipulating defenses with his body and his eyes has been my mantra about Mac Jones on this thread for about 6 months so naturally I agree.   He's really good for that reason with play action.  Ditto I've harped on his footwork under pressure which I think is nifty. 

 

I went to battle for Mac a lot during the college season when there was a phase where national media types compared Trask and Jones as apples to apples.  I said Mac >>>> Trask.  I still feel that way and even more strongly.  i was cool taking him at 19 even though he wasn't my top pick.

 

My concerns about Mac was arm zip coupled with he's not really an off script guy.  One thing he had in common with Trask is he had many wide open receivers and relied some on contested catches so it was hard to evaluate him on tight window throws or judging how he'd perform with ordinary talent.  And PFF didn't rank Mac highly on the tight window throws he threw for whatever that's worth. 

 

Having said that, I've said the one thing many coaches say seperate QBs are intangibles -- smarts, work ethic.  Just about every QB gets a fluff article or two on that front so I look for various sources saying the same tune.  And as for Mac, I keep reading he's the best interview and comes off the most advanced among the QBs.  Between that and the stories about how he's a maniac of a worker -- to me it makes him a top 10 pick.  Before I took him as a backhalf of the first round/early 2nd type. 

 

Albert Breer says some teams have him graded as a 2nd rounder. But it seems like some teams have him ranked high, too.  The weird thing about Jones, Fields and Lance is there is high variance of opnions about all three if you judge it purely on draft rumors.  I am fascinated to see what happens with all three on draft night because its so hard to get a beat on it. 

 

 

I was in on Mac at #19.  Odds are he'll be gone.  If not and we draft him, cool.  You know where I'm at now.    

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Also been going over the Alabama offense to understand why Mac Jones is about to go #3 and I still don't really see it with him.  I don't see special accuracy, which is what his fans are hanging their hat on with him.  He throws high and late a lot, including on throws to the flats.  He doesn't put the ball on the money for you with the consistency, but I do acknowledge that could be a product of a lack of starts.  He could end up being a much better thrower with more reps at the next level, and he did get better from the start of the year to the end.

 

I also see why people love Waddle.  God damn is he an explosive leaper with rare body control.  He showed out big against Missouri and I understand why so many people think he's better than Smitty.  Not saying I agree with that take, but I at least see where they are coming from.

 

What I don't see at all is the love for Leatherwood.  His film is lousy and I think he's going to bust.  He can't run block because he's so soft despite how big and explosive he is so I wouldn't play him at guard.  He can't bend his knees or sit down in his stance at all because he's so stiff and top heavy so I wouldn't play him at tackle either.  He's the highest set of pads at the LoS every time he's in a 2 pt stance.  He gets planted on his ass by little guys because of how striaght up and down he plays.  He gives up multiple edge pressures a game after some soft hand fighting because he doesn't have good hands, he stops working his feet after contact too often, and he's not a tenacious competitor.

 

And I'm not throwing out his terrible senior bowl week either.  Getting his ass whipped every which way by future NFL talent is a preview of things to come with Leatherwood IMO.  I honestly don't think the kid can play.  I wouldn't draft him and I don't really see what the path to make him better in the NFL is with him.  I'm a Mac Jones bear but I'm a much bigger fan of him and his NFL potential than Leatherwood's.  I can see the building blocks of an NFL game with Jones.  I don't with Leatherwood.  I can't believe they gave this kid an Outland trophy.

 

Good stuff Steve. I see it the same way you do.  I would be shocked if Jones is the pick at 3 but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke about that. 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moehrig.  I was thinking about it.  He reminds me some of Xavier McKinney in coverage who i liked. He's better than McKinney in coverage.  But they both struck me as really assignment strong and had a good feel for what the opponent's Qbs tendencies and game plan. 

 

 

 

Greater needs ahead of S, IMO.  That's me though, SIP.  We can still fill the void as there are good options at FS with our DL and LB that we draft ahead of FS at least I hope.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moehrig.  I was thinking about it.  He reminds me some of Xavier McKinney in coverage who i liked. He's better than McKinney in coverage.  But they both struck me as really assignment strong and had a good feel for what the opponent's Qbs tendencies and game plan. 

 

 

 

I think I'd be the only really happy one around here on Friday:ols:

[RWJ]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Good stuff Steve. I see it the same way you do.  I would be shocked if Jones is the pick at 3 but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke about that. 

Be shocked.  I think he will be and most of the media think he will too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley finished film reviews on Davis Mills, Mond, Trask, Newman. 

 

Cliff notes:  he doesn't think any of them deserve to be in the 2nd round.  He seems them as third rounders.  He'd rate Trask a hair over Mills and have Mond last.  He doesn't care much for Newman and would be surprised if he even goes in the mid rounds.

 

He sees Mills and Trask very similar to me.  Thus he must be right. 

 

I remember the Trask stuff more because I just listened to it.  To paraphrase what I recall.

 

A.  Overall he sees him as a backup in the league

B.  Good accuracy -- not great

C.  Big dude who stands tough in the pocket and is hard to bring down

D.  Not the best decision maker, unravels with dumb throws under pressure where he throws it up for grabs and which he hopes his playmakers (he's really impressed with Pitts and Toney) will bail him out on.

E. Arm strength is meh.  He looked better on that front on pro day.  But with live bullets in the games, he doesn't think highly of it

F.  Good touch on his throws

G.  He doesn't create well -- can make an occasional off platform throws but most of the time it looks awkward

H.  Questions his field vision

I.  Can move well in the pocket -- footwork decent at dodging pressure

J.   When things go poorly, things breakdown in the pocket, etc he has the habit of making it worse by poor decision making 

K.  Slow-lumbering at times

 

As for Mills

 

A.  Looks the part, nice size, reminds him of Peyton as for stature

B.  Throws well with anticipation.  

C.  Looks fundamentally sound -- footwork, delivery

D.  Makes bad decisions

E.  His accuracy is all over the place, it can look good but then all of a sudden he can make wildly inaccurate throws

F.  Has some athleticism, can escape pressure and move when he needs to. 

F.  He's not ready to start, he needs time to learn