2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If Cowden is hired as the new GM wonder if there will interest in Mariotta?  Maybe nothing but just curious?  Anyone thought about that?  How much would the Raiders want for him.  

Good questions. That connection crossed my mind earlier. The potential 49ers/Mayhew/Jimmy G one did as well.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Good questions. That connection crossed my mind earlier. The potential 49ers/Mayhew/Jimmy G one did as well.

No disrespect but I'd rather have Cowden/Mariotta than Mayhew/Jimmy G.  

[Riggo#44]

I want Martin Mayhew no where near this team. Please tell me he is just a Rooney Rule interview.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

No disrespect but I'd rather have Cowden/Mariotta than Mayhew/Jimmy G.  

I agree. Was just noting the connection.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Our new GM is gonna be Snyder’s kid. This other stuff is all just for show.

[markshark84]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This is a good post, and I'm not sure if you're a new member, but I hope you stick around here regardless.  You are fair in your criticisms, although I have one quibble for the sake of the record: Haskins didn't go to a strip club.  He made a dumbass mistake and went to a party for his girlfriend's birthday, the strip club narrative feels like an attempt to pile on the kid.  It gets repeated so much it gains the veneer of truth.

 

I think you're buying into the scapegoating of the QB to be honest.  Issues with blitz pick up are not just failures of the QB, and I don't think even primarily failures of the QB.  It's also failures of the OL and TEs and RBs and failures of the coaching staff in the installation of their protections and the game-planning and the in-game adjustment and the playcalling.  Issues with spacing in the passing game are failures of the guys running the routes, but even bigger failures with concept design and game-planning and playcalling.  And I think it's a pretty big stretch to blame the QBs for the failures of the run game.  Things like the QB taking too long to go through reads in the passing game don't really have any bearing on the performance of the run game, and in 12 of the games we played this season, someone other than Haskins was playing QB.  Mainly Alex Smith, who was generally getting the ball out fast.  The failures in the run game again come down to the OL play, the RB play, and most of all, the coaching.  Issues with preparation and game-planning and situational play-calling were frequent and recurring anchors on the performance of the offense.

 

As far as the mistakes in the way Rivera and his staff handled Haskins, they're stuff you just can't do as a coach and be successful.  You can't make your QB turtle up and be terrified to throw picks, and that's what Rivera did after the Cleveland game.  You can't hinge their job on how they played in the previous half, and that's what Rivera did after the Seattle game.  He admitted this in his comments to the media.  And you absolutely don't scapegoat them for losses and tell the media that the rest of your team played well enough to win.  I know that all of this happened for sure instead of having to speculate on what might have happened behind the scenes, because Rivera did all of this out in the open in his media sessions.

 

The reason I'm focusing my criticism on Rivera and the coaches is because they are the ones with all of the power, and they are the ones who are still here.  And I definitely don't think this staff did Dwayne any favors.  I don't think they were ever seriously interested in committing to him and that is clear from one of their first moves being to trade for Kyle Allen.  I think they wrecked his confidence and did a poor job coaching him, and I think he was a useful scapegoat for team failures this season.  At the end of the day, it's another high cost player whose value tanked on their watch, and if we want to talk about accountability, why are we ignoring the coaching staff and FO in this equation?  That's not accountability.

 

Thanks.  I am DC born and raised, but live outside the area now.  I was young when they won SBs, but some of my earliest memories are watching those SBs with my family.  Since Snyder bought the team, my interest has slowly eroded over time as he is a horrendous owner and person.  By about 2013 (RGIII fallout) my fanship became completely dormant, stopped watching games altogether, but the recent play of Heinicke in the playoff game brought me back.  So in a way, I am both a new and old fan.....

 

And I am not "buying" into anything.  I only make my football opinions based on performance.  Haskins, overall, performed abysmally and such performance was clearly a result of many of the things his coaches, players, media, etc. were critiquing about him.  I am not one to coddle an already entitled football player.  The fact the coaches were saying this in the media wasn't a surprise to anyone as anyone with eyes could clearly see what they were talking about on the field.  Haskins is a guy that has exhibited, at every turn, a lack of maturity and horrible emotional intelligence.  Qbs like that don't survive for very long in this league ---- just ask Johnny Football about that.  So my opinion on Haskins is based on the performance of Haskins.  His performance (based on QBR) has been historically bad --- like all time bad for any QB in the league.

 

With respect to the blitz pickups --- I generally consider that the job of the QB and, at times, C.  It is their job to make the proper adjustments thereby telling their RB, HB, TE, WR, etc. to pick them up or redesign their route.  Similar to MIKE identification.  That's not a position players job.  I still hold to the fact that much of the running game was hindered by having an inept QB in Haskins, followed by Smith, who literally can't throw a pass beyond 15 yards in the air.  In the TB game, it was clear, the TB DEF was loading the box, which would make it difficult to run.  I also disagree with your sentiment that a QB's slow progressions hurt the run game.  They absolutely do, albeit indirectly.  If a QB has slow reads, you can load the box without much risk.  You will most likely get to the QB within the 4 second timeframe necessary.  At the very least, loading the box will pressure him --- and for an unprepared and undisciplined guy like Haskins, presser turns into TOs.  So as a DEF coach, if I have a QB who lacks the ability to make quick progressions, I will, maybe >80% of the time, send 1-2 more pass rushers, since I know that Haskins will most likely not get to the 3 or 4th option (and you don't need to cover those options on man, more a hovering zone) and with the added pressure comes (1) more TOs, and (2) more defenders to protect the run game.  On a side note, I didn't think Smith was that great at getting the ball out fast.  He goes thru his progressions quickly, but more than not, ended up with the dreaded dump off pass (which he did a ton in KC).  I am of the belief that as the game has evolved, now the pass will open up the run (since many DEFs initially attempt to stop the run up front).  If a DEF doesn't respect the pass (and that lack of respect is correct), you will never be able to run consistently.  I don't think that Haskins, Allen, or Smith are QBs you need to respect.  Heinicke, I actually do as he showed he could throw downfield (but the lack of run production was clearly a result of TB's DEF scheme).  

 

With respect to playcalling, when you have a QB as unprepared as Haskins, that could create a huge issue in what you can call.... Again, Haskins was commonly unprepared and when you have that issue, the playbook gets quite small...... You could be correct, however, but with a guy like Haskins and Smith under center, it is very difficult to tell.

 

With respect to Riveria's comments, first I will say that I am not a huge Riveria fan, but I don't think he's worthless.  He has actually been good for the organization given what a horrible owner we have.  And when you say the coaches have "all the power" --- I always laugh when anyone says that about anyone within this organization that is NOT Dan Snyder.  Snyder has ALL the power.  That has become painfully clear over the past 2 decades.  That said, I stand by the fact that Riveria's comments were a last ditch effort to put some fire under an otherwise entitled, immature, unfocused QB.  But unless one of us was there behind the scenes, it's all speculation.

 

2 last comments --- first on this statement: "The reason I'm focusing my criticism on Rivera and the coaches is because they are the ones with all of the power, and they are the ones who are still here."  As a fan, I don't think that is the correct view to take.   I think that it's probably better to support the current team over putting them down in favor of a horrendously performing player that made mistake after mistake after mistake, whose cutting was fully warranted and is no longer with the team.  The ultimate mistake was drafting him at 15 in the first place ---- which, of course, was a Snyder call.....

 

Secondly, you mention FO..... We don't have a FO.  We have Dan Snyder.  He's our FO.  And if you think he is at fault, well, then I 100% agree with you.  Snyder has been an absolute CURSE to this organization and turned one of the NFL's most respected franchises into the joke of the NFL.

[Going Commando]

Watched a little of Vera-Tucker at OT and was disappointed with what I saw TBH.  I went in expecting to like what I saw and was instead off-put.  I guess I was expecting Brandon Scherff type film based on that article by Standig and the USC beat reporter, but Scherff was waaaay better than him.  I'll try and watch some of him playing guard last year, but based on these 2020 cut ups, I don't think he can play tackle at an NFL level.  Not any time soon anyway.  That's disappointing because one of the arguments made in his favor was his versatility and it looks like he's probably a guard only prospect.  To be brutally honest, those pass sets look god awful.  He aligns so close to the LoS to try and get quick hands on his match ups because that is his lifeline, but he doesn't have anywhere near the fluidity and range on his vertical sets to match NFL speed on the outside to make that technique work.  He's watching wide ends waltz right by him on very tight rush paths.  Those hands are grabby and frenetic too.  Very heavy and they are how he does all of his winning.  And if he's got a chance of being a good pass protector, it'll be because of those meat hooks.  And the other thing that stands out as a major positive is he is twitchy as Hell and has a great first step, mainly shows up on his run blocking.  But right now there just isn't good syncing between eyes, hands, and feet so too often he's just kind of jabbing at DLs without good, balanced engagement and playing with his weight way too far backwards as he's laboring through his slide.  Good counter rushers and speed to power guys light him up.  I don't know about this kid...

 

My first impression is that Cosmi and Eichenberg are way better players than him, and are much more league-ready.  I'm not sure about that beat writer's take that he's better than Austin Jackson was.  I was a pretty big fan of Jackson last year, and to my eye he was better than what I saw of Tucker-Vera.

 

It was a pleasure to watch Tyler Vaughns again.  What's up with the lack of draftnik love for that kid?  TDN has him ranked 359 on their board.  I'm not sure what I'm missing with him, but I see fantastic hands, ballsy-playmaking ability, and fluid route-running.  He's got to at least be worth a day three pick.

[KillBill26]

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The guard only and center only prospects almost always fall.  That's quite a few good players this year.

I feel top centers always go higher than expected: ryan kelly, garrett bradbury, frank ragnow, billy price.  I don't remember any of them being pegged for versatility (maybe price), and i think most would agree they were picked before expected.

[KillBill26]

6 hours ago, UK Skins said:

I can't read Twitter at work. Is he advocating we take a guard in the 1st round again?! i don't care how good Scherff has been you just don't take interior linemen in the 1st round. i will smash my TV if that happens.

Scherff was a solid pick, and he was top 5.  19 is fair game for any position except special teams.   I prefer to stay away from RB in the 1st, but if he turns out to be christian mccaffrey, it'd be hard to argue with it.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I feel top centers always go higher than expected: ryan kelly, garrett bradbury, frank ragnow, billy price.  I don't remember any of them being pegged for versatility (maybe price), and i think most would agree they were picked before expected.

 

Of that group, Bradbury is the only one who probably can't play guard.  Ragnow split his time between guard and center at Arkansas and Kelly could have done so too if Bama needed him to, but Barrett Jones graduated and the center spot was open.

 

Bradbury was a draft day reach and has been fairly disappointing given where he was picked.  He's been significantly outplayed by Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy.  He's like the exception to the rule that argues for why the rule is justified.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Of that group, Bradbury is the only one who probably can't play guard.  Ragnow split his time between guard and center at Arkansas and Kelly could have done so too if Bama needed him to, but Barrett Jones graduated and the center spot was open.

 

Bradbury was a draft day reach and has been fairly disappointing given where he was picked.  He's been significantly outplayed by Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy.  He's like the exception to the rule that argues for why the rule is justified.

I think he was a scheme choice due to the Gary Kubiak style run game.  You’re right though, McCoy is a much better player.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Lance is tough for me.  In terms of the raw talent, he's my favorite of the bunch behind Lawrence.  He's like what Lamar Jackson would look like if he had Andrew Luck's size and strength.  A true physical unicorn at the position whose scrambling and designed run ability is totally unique.  He will run through you and he cuts with the explosiveness and instincts of an elite RB.  One of the rare types that could make a college-style QB running offense work at the NFL level.  I just don't like him as a fit for our organization in particular.  I don't have any faith in the team's ability to support and develop him, especially if he has to play next season.  He needs a team with an offensive coaching staff that's actually good--one that is patient and secure and talented enough to commit to running a very limited playbook for a couple of seasons until Lance can make the huge and necessary strides as a traditional passer.  Someone like San Francisco makes far more sense for him.  Lynch and Shanahan have the long term job security to spend three years running a training wheels offense, but the team is still good enough to win a bunch of games in the mean time and have everyone keep their jobs, even if they don't have an honest shot at competing for a SB with such a limited scheme.  The other fit that immediately comes to mind is Indy with Frank Reich, who had great success working with and developing Wentz plus that OL and defense are pretty awesome.  Going to this team is a death sentence for that kid's career.

 

At the range of our pick, he's the last of the top tier QBs who may fall close enough to our pick to trade up though I doubt it.

 

I spent some time on Lance.  As a raw talent, I agree he's the next best after Lawrence.  He has that flick of the wrist arm strength that reminds me some of RG3.  He's mostly a one read QB.  If that read isn't open he takes off and runs.  He stares down his targets.  He's the best running QB coming out of this draft.  Like L. Jackson, he is like a running back in open field.  As a runner, has good power, vision and elusiveness.  He oddly seems to like running right up the A gap with no fear.  He seems to invite some physicality from defenders which worries me some as to his durability.  Oddly, it looks his accuracy is better with the long ball versus the shorter stuff in the flat.  It looks like he needs to learn how to vary his speed on certain throws.   I've read a bunch on Lance and supposedly he's a hard worker with high intangibles. 

 

I know you are sour about the coaching staff in part because of Haskins but heck they actually got two undrafted free agents to move the ball with this offense.    One of whom went toe to toe with Brady in a high stakes playoff game.   Zampese is also highly regarded by some.  I think they'd be more than fine handling Lance.   They didn't believe in Haskins.  Nor did the front office.  That's fine.  They didn't draft Haskins, he wasn't their guy.    If they draft Lance clearly he would be their guy and they naturally would be patient with him. 

[skinzplay]

What's the latest word on Bryce Love and his rehab status, and how might that affect our draft activity in the mid-rounds?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, skinzplay said:

What's the latest word on Bryce Love and his rehab status, and how might that affect our draft activity in the mid-rounds?

 

I haven't heard much but at this point I wouldn't count on him.  I recall before that draft there was an article about how teams were scared off of him because his ACL injury appeared worse than the standard one.  I forgot all the details about it but I recall some of it was some team doctors thought the leg had more stiffness than normal as to the healing process at that juncture which they saw as a red flag and there was something else to it too.

 

Looks like the concerns were on the money.  I loved him in college and was excited about the pick.  But I recall hearing that he started off in camp looking good but faded fast.  Then we tried again during the season and obviously they didn't like what they saw.  You never know but I gather he's having a hard time regaining his form. 

[skinzplay]

Thanks for the insight, SIP!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RichmondRedskin88]

3 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Our new GM is gonna be Snyder’s kid. This other stuff is all just for show.

I want to post the Ted clip from Ted 2 where he says “F*** YOU” to the lawyer for calling him Bieber so bad 

[DC Lumber Co.]

Anyone like Brock Purdy?

 

I think he fits perfectly in a QB room with Heinicke and Allen. Let those two battle for the starting job while you groom Purdy as the long-term.

 

Watched the QB School's breakdown on him and he had high praise.

 

https://youtu.be/FZBuXBJeR1s

 

Hes mobile, and throws with NFL-level anticipation. I'd love to trade down in the first, pick up extra picks and take Purdy on Day 2.

 

Major Russel Wilson/Romo vibes

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At the range of our pick, he's the last of the top tier QBs who may fall close enough to our pick to trade up though I doubt it.

 

I'm not sure he'll be the fourth QB.  I think he has a chance to be the second one drafted.  Teams have been willing to gamble on physical traits in QB prospects, and he's got the best physical traits of the class.  He's going to blow everyone away with his combine testing and his workouts.

 

I could see San Francisco trading up for him.  I could see Carolina drafting him too.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm not sure he'll be the fourth QB.  I think he has a chance to be the second one drafted.  Teams have been willing to gamble on physical traits in QB prospects, and he's got the best physical traits of the class.  He's going to blow everyone away with his combine testing and his workouts.

 

I could see San Francisco trading up for him.  I could see Carolina drafting him too.

 

It's possible.  I see him all over the place in mocks from #2 to #19 at our pick.  I think he's going top 10 for sure. 

[KillBill26]

7 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Anyone like Brock Purdy?

 

I think he fits perfectly in a QB room with Heinicke and Allen. Let those two battle for the starting job while you groom Purdy as the long-term.

 

Watched the QB School's breakdown on him and he had high praise.

 

https://youtu.be/FZBuXBJeR1s

 

Hes mobile, and throws with NFL-level anticipation. I'd love to trade down in the first, pick up extra picks and take Purdy on Day 2.

 

Major Russel Wilson/Romo vibes

I believe purdy and kolar are going back to school.  Iowa st will be good next year, will be interesting to see how purdy progresses.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Elijah Moore is another of my favorites if he falls to the 2nd.  I'll keep pestering the point that he's right up there with Toney and R. Moore as a slot WR.   All three of them IMO will be special on that front.   Devonta Smith I presume will play some slot to in the NFL albeit he played all over the field for Alabama, especially at X the previous season but am guessing he's gone when we pick. 

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Elijah Moore is another of my favorites if he falls to the 2nd.  I'll keep pestering the point that he's right up there with Toney and R. Moore as a slot WR.   All three of them IMO will be special on that front.   Devonta Smith I presume will play some slot to in the NFL albeit he played all over the field for Alabama, especially at X the previous season but am guessing he's gone when we pick. 

Gotta do my final big watch on receivers still... I like entirely too many of them right now. Have to find things about these guys.

[Thinking Skins]

16 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Agreed Steve, unless one of the standout LBs falls to us, I say we definitely look to upgrade the offensive line in the first two rounds.  Enough of pinning our hopes on a 5th or 6th round player.  Those rarely work out for us, although I'm not sure why.  A guard a tackle could really help upgrade our line.

 

If we have a chance to draft Najee Harris, though, I say go with that in round 1.  We need that type of back since Antonio Gibson appears to be a little fragile and slows down late in the season when he's the featured back.

 

I don't think this is fair to Gibson. He was one of the leadign rookie running backs. Calling him fragile is putting him on a Darius Guice level where he is only playing a few snaps a year and going down for weeks after the first hard tackle. Gibson was a grinder and was getting yards week in and week out before the injury. I wouldn't say the 'slows down late in the season' either because he's only had one season. He missed 2 weeks, had good games in week 16 and 17. For a rookie to put up almost 800 yards rushing is a good year and its promising for the future. 

 

What I'd say we need is another Gibson/JDM. I was never a fan of Barber and I don't think he really fits into this offense. Gibson is a 220 pound back who is versatile but used more as a runner. JDM is a 195 pound back who is versatile but used more as a receiver. Barber is a 225 pound back who is used exclusively as a pound the ball man, kinda like a fullback but without the lead blocking.

 

What neither Gibson or JDM did well was blocking so I'd be looking for them (particularly Gibson) to improve in that area and get better at stopping blitzers. And if that's not something that's likely to happen this offseason, then I'd look at bringing somebody in either as a FA or in the draft who can block better. I honestly wouldn't even rule out getting an exclusive fullback like a Mike Sellers or Darrel Young. I'm not sure how often we'd use a 2 back system with a FB & RB though so I wonder about those guys who are "versatile" and can play both positions. One name that comes to mind is Thaddeus Moss who is known for his blocking ability (I'd also throw Hale Hentges in here but he's not on the team). But I think that a FB could help this team a lot. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Gotta do my final big watch on receivers still... I like entirely too many of them right now. Have to find things about these guys.

 

I've started some.  WR and TE are typically my favorite positions to watch. 

 

And Toney was one of my guys from early this season so I get the love for him on this thread.   I like Rondale Moore too, I think he drops to the 2nd round.  But Elijah Moore gets little love on this thread. I think i actually like Elijah over Rondale.  At a minimum, I think he's right in conversation with the other two.   He's probably the better deep threat than Rondale and Toney and has better hands than them, too.  He's not as elusive as the other two are in open field but he's not a mile away from them on that front, he's elusive enough.  And he looks fast.   He looks to me like Santana Moss Part 2.