Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Wyndorf25]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:54 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

It would not be even remotely shocking to me if they just keep him inactive the rest of the season or put him on IR.  

 

I think Rivera is reticent to put Chase out there because A) he truly does care about the young man's health and future B.) he is concerned about the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" dynamic with this defense's play lately and C) he probably would like to have him on the roster but inactive in the event of an injury to another guy during this playoff push--then the balance of risk/reward for getting him out there shifts and becomes more reasonable.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Wyndorf25

[Warhead36]

Remember at the end of his tenure in Carolina, Rivera threw Cam Newton out there when he was hurt and completely broke him and I think since then, he's trying to be really conservative when it comes to injuries to young stars(although Newton wasn't really "young" by that point but the point stands). 

 

I know our DL has been real good without him, but none of them are real game changers. Young has that kind of potential. He can be a Garrett/Bosa/Parsons type who can just win a game with one play(like his rookie year with his plays against the Bengals, 49ers etc.). If you have a chance at getting that kind of player, even if its only for four games, you have to hold on to that hope. 

[Est.1974]

I don’t see how you make Chase active with a view to playing limited time. Seems like an unnecessary/luxury move to me. He’s either full go or not IMO.

[Conn]

23 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I don’t see how you make Chase active with a view to playing limited time. Seems like an unnecessary/luxury move to me. He’s either full go or not IMO.

We have DL on the active roster right now who already play limited snaps by design. Having him start in a rotational role is normal and makes sense imo. 

[NickyJ]

My bigger worry for Chase is finding out how good a player he really is going to turn out. His 2nd and 3rd years are pretty much a wash. So we've got his rookie year, his 4th year, and his 5th year. I'd like to see a little more of the crown jewel before declaring he is a certified crown jewel.

 

If he can't play, he can't play. But it still worries me how little time there will be to evaluate him.

[Wyndorf25]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:04 AM, NickyJ said:

My bigger worry for Chase is finding out how good a player he really is going to turn out. His 2nd and 3rd years are pretty much a wash. So we've got his rookie year, his 4th year, and his 5th year. I'd like to see a little more of the crown jewel before declaring he is a certified crown jewel.

 

If he can't play, he can't play. But it still worries me how little time there will be to evaluate him.

 

At this point, I'm becoming more comfortable bringing Payne back at whatever ridiculous contract it will take to keep him here along with Allen and potentially risk the prospect of not being able to re-sign Chase...especially if Chase is now damaged goods.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Wyndorf25

[Voice_of_Reason]

1. I don't think you're going to see what Chase Young can be, or even really is, this year if he plays.  It's going to take him another entire off-season to really get in football shape, and get confidence in his legs.  If he plays, he might make a play or two, but he also might be massively exposed, because he hasn't played for over a year.  

 

2. It's not Payne or Young.  If they want both, they can have both.  Our team has not even remotely tapped into the different ways you can manipulate the cap. If they sign Payne, my bet is they will structure it in a way to be short-term cap friendly. And they can do whatever they want from there.  Also, Young isn't really up for a new contract for another year.  They will pick up his 5th year option, and then go from there.  Sweat is the next guy up for an extension. He's tricky.  I don't think they need to sign both Young and Sweat.  I'd pick one, and I'd prefer that was Young assuming he returns to his rookie form and improves from there.  

 

3. Unless they sign Carr or Jimmy G., the QB on this team is going to be less than $20m.  They are either going to release Wentz, or (in my opinion), extend him at a lower salary.  So, they'll probably tack on 2 more years, convert some of the money he's owed to guaranteed money, spread it, and lower his annual salary.  He'll have to take a pay cut, but he'll get the benefit of guaranteed money and a longer contract.  They will probably also re-sign TH, which I really hope they don't, but they will, because they're stupid.  Somebody is going to pay him $10m a year, I'd like to let that be somebody else.  But regardless, the whole QB room next year is going to cost a lot less than the QB room this year, absent signing Carr or Jimmy.  

 

4. They should extend Curl next year to a cap-friendly deal in the first 2 years. Get ahead of the curve on him.  

[woodpecker]

As fun as it would be to keep all four studs across the defensive line, I don’t think it’s realistic with the salary cap. The money needs to be spread around to other positions, so one of the four at some point has to go. Never thought I’d say this, but we should look at trading Chase in the off season. Right now, the line is playing great without him. With his pedigree, and reasonable contract for the next couple years, I think his value is still very high despite the injury. I’m thinking we could get a solid first round pick for him, and doing so would give us big time flexibility in the draft to possibly trade up for a QB. This is all assuming we were able to resign Payne. If we can’t, then yeah just give that money to Chase. 

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

As fun as it would be to keep all four studs across the defensive line, I don’t think it’s realistic with the salary cap. The money needs to be spread around to other positions, so one of the four at some point has to go. Never thought I’d say this, but we should look at trading Chase in the off season. Right now, the line is playing great without him. With his pedigree, and reasonable contract for the next couple years, I think his value is still very high despite the injury. I’m thinking we could get a solid first round pick for him, and doing so would give us big time flexibility in the draft to possibly trade up for a QB. This is all assuming we were able to resign Payne. If we can’t, then yeah just give that money to Chase. 

Young's value is at an all time low. It would be moronic to trade a kid who's only 23 and won a DROY and is still on a rookie contract.

 

And this notion that we "can't pay everyone" is silly and has been proven false. I don't know why so many of our fans are allergic to keeping good players. I've seen contenders with more cap restraints not only keep their talent but add on to it. 

[Koolblue13]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:23 AM, Warhead36 said:

Remember at the end of his tenure in Carolina, Rivera threw Cam Newton out there when he was hurt and completely broke him and I think since then, he's trying to be really conservative when it comes to injuries to young stars(although Newton wasn't really "young" by that point but the point stands). 

 

I know our DL has been real good without him, but none of them are real game changers. Young has that kind of potential. He can be a Garrett/Bosa/Parsons type who can just win a game with one play(like his rookie year with his plays against the Bengals, 49ers etc.). If you have a chance at getting that kind of player, even if its only for four games, you have to hold on to that hope. 

Payne just "changed the game" two weeks in a row at crucial times

[woodpecker]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Young's value is at an all time low. It would be moronic to trade a kid who's only 23 and won a DROY and is still on a rookie contract.

 

And this notion that we "can't pay everyone" is silly and has been proven false. I don't know why so many of our fans are allergic to keeping good players. I've seen contenders with more cap restraints not only keep their talent but add on to it. 

Well of course we’d all love to keep everybody. But I also think it’s OK to reallocate resources. I don’t see a problem with letting a good player go, if it gets us another just as good player that is a better fit. If “can’t keep everyone“ has been proven false, then why do you suppose KC was willing to let Tyreek Hill go?

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, woodpecker said:

Well of course we’d all love to keep everybody. But I also think it’s OK to reallocate resources. I don’t see a problem with letting a good player go, if it gets us another just as good player that is a better fit. If “can’t keep everyone“ has been proven false, then why do you suppose KC was willing to let Tyreek Hill go?

Personally, I’m just not a fan of trading away players at their lowest value (or trading for players at their highest value).  Now, if Young does play some at the end of the year and looks really good, I’d listen to offers.  Or wait until he shows something next year.  Of course, if we were to put him on the trade block and didn’t get reasonable offer, you risk alienating Chase, but that’s a separate issue.

 

I’m not in the camp that believes the cap is essentially fictional, but I do think we can reasonably fit all 4 guys if we so choose.  The contracts will already be staggered naturally (based on when they’re signed), and then you can massage cap hits when needed.  Prime example would be in Allen’s final year, you give Chase (in the first year of his new deal) a low cap hit.

 

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

I’m not in the camp that believes the cap is essentially fictional, but I do think we can reasonably fit all 4 guys if we so choose.  The contracts will already be staggered naturally (based on when they’re signed), and then you can massage cap hits when needed.  Prime example would be in Allen’s final year, you give Chase (in the first year of his new deal) a low cap hit.

 

Exactly this. You're not paying four guys all in the same year. By the time say Sweat's deal gets expensive, Allen will be a FA again. 

[TheShredder]

26 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

I’m not in the camp that believes the cap is essentially fictional, but I do think we can reasonably fit all 4 guys if we so choose.  The contracts will already be staggered naturally (based on when they’re signed), and then you can massage cap hits when needed.  Prime example would be in Allen’s final year, you give Chase (in the first year of his new deal) a low cap hit.

There's a list of teams that maxed out their credit cards and you can see the results. LA Rams are example #1. They won a Super Bowl, so mission accomplished. Now they have no depth. Zero. There's others who have used draft picks as credit and lost wildly, like WSH did with RG3. Cap is real and so is Creative Financing.

Eventually you have to pay the bill, so GM's who go for it are gambling in high risk investments. It's harder to create a perennial contender.

 

If you look at Top Defenses, do you find 4 DL'men taking 40% of the cap? Does anyone see how a team wins (+.500 annually) by allocating 60% (+130M) to Defense? Nope.

Doesn't mean it won't work. With the majority of teams doing the opposite and paying QB's 20%+ per year, you could argue that if you're paying QB peanuts then you can allocate a lot more to DL. The answer is clearly that you can but NFL, Not For Long.

[TheShredder]

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Exactly this. You're not paying four guys all in the same year. By the time say Sweat's deal gets expensive, Allen will be a FA again. 

I think you could do this for a couple of years, but you'll have an exit plan to trade a guy and replace him with a rookie. Clearly WSH took this approach and their guy got hurt and nobody would give up a 1st or 2nd for Payne.

Will they now (2023)? Transition Tag DPayne and trade him?

I think they have been doing it wrong and should extend value players like Payne and trade them for 1st rounders vs Franchise twice and roll them out for nothing. Key is tradable contract extensions and market timing. GM skill.

[LetThePointsSoar]

No way I'm trading Chase for a single first rounder. He's still a 2nd overall pick that has HOF potential. 

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, TheShredder said:

There's a list of teams that maxed out their credit cards and you can see the results. LA Rams are example #1. They won a Super Bowl, so mission accomplished. Now they have no depth. Zero.

The Rams got crushed by injuries this year. No amount of depth would have saved them. They just won a game with Baker freaking Mayfield having only been there for like an hour. 

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

No way I'm trading Chase for a single first rounder. He's still a 2nd overall pick that has HOF potential. 

I would trade him for a first rounder right this second. No doubt in my mind. To roll into next year's draft with this D line and 2 first round draft picks....done deal.

[KDawg]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:23 AM, Warhead36 said:

Remember at the end of his tenure in Carolina, Rivera threw Cam Newton out there when he was hurt and completely broke him and I think since then, he's trying to be really conservative when it comes to injuries to young stars(although Newton wasn't really "young" by that point but the point stands). 

 

I know our DL has been real good without him, but none of them are real game changers. Young has that kind of potential. He can be a Garrett/Bosa/Parsons type who can just win a game with one play(like his rookie year with his plays against the Bengals, 49ers etc.). If you have a chance at getting that kind of player, even if its only for four games, you have to hold on to that hope. 

None of them are gamebreakers? Payne and Allen are the biggest reason the defense is doing what it’s doing.

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

None of them are gamebreakers? Payne and Allen are the biggest reason the defense is doing what it’s doing.

They're both great players but when was the last time you saw one of them get a sack/fumble or something along those lines to win or turn a game around? 

 

I will admit the Payne deflection in the Falcon game was a game changer for sure. 

 

I'm not saying anything bad about either of them. They're both tremendous. Allen should be in consideration for All Pro. 

 

But Young has the potential to be even better. He can be our version of Garrett/Bosa/Parsons. We have to see it through.

[skinzplay]

I keep Payne. Sweat can walk, unless willing to take a deal that keeps him with that defensive unit.

[TheShredder]

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The Rams got crushed by injuries this year. No amount of depth would have saved them. They just won a game with Baker freaking Mayfield having only been there for like an hour. 

The injuries at key positions can derail any roster. Rams had OL issues from the start. Their All-in style sacrifices depth from cap issues to no draft picks.

Mayfield needed that. Good for him! McVay is still a Wizard 🧙‍♂️

4 hours ago, skinzplay said:

I keep Payne. Sweat can walk, unless willing to take a deal that keeps him with that defensive unit.

Maybe trade Sweat high...somethings gonna give!

Edited December 10, 2022 by TheShredder

[dunfer]

sweat is playing in the scheme and controlling the edge for the most part i think this year. Lines are a unit...not a superstar or two.

[goskins10]

16 hours ago, skinzplay said:

I keep Payne. Sweat can walk, unless willing to take a deal that keeps him with that defensive unit.

 

Not just directed at you but for all those on Sweats case. Also, those saying Allen and  Payne and not making game changing plays. 

 

As the players get more comfortable in thier roles and the Def they will make more wow plays. But still, the D is 2nd in QB hits with 91. Montez Sweat leads the team with 24. While sacks are the wow play, hitting a QB also disrupts the play. It forces bad throws. So with 24, Montez Sweat has 26.4% of the teams QB hits. That's not a small %. Allen and Payne have 17 and 16 respectively. That's 62.6% of the QB hits are from 3 players. Next up is James Smith WIlliams with 13 - nice since he has a lot less snaps. 

 

Also, in terms of sacks - in 2021 they averaged 2.2 sacks a game. This year it's 2.6 - not a lot better. However, the last 3 gms it's been 3.3 including 4 last game. My point is this D is finally gelling (yes I wanted JDR fired last year and up to game 6 or so this year - I was wrong). Getting Chase back - if he plays within the system like the others are, this front 4 will be like none we have seen here in a very long time. And it's worth keeping that front 4 together. It changes eveything in terms of defense. 

 

I realize I am higher on Sweat than others. I have just seen him grow so much the last 12 months. And he jsut seems to be getting better starting with setting the edge and playing with discipline but still be a major disruption  in the passing game. It is starting to show in the numbers. 

 

No way I let Sweat walk. I am one of the biggest Chase Young fans but he has to show me he has learned from his time off. I resign both Payne and Sweat. Deal with it when Chase's contract comes up. But I do all I can to keep them together for as long as possible. If the CAP just does not work out, I trade Sweat right now unless Chase is just plain ass. He will not be worth more unless you resign him and he gets better. Then you don't want to trade him. Would help with the QB search. 

 

Team has some interesting decisions to make. Going to be a crazy offseason. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by goskins10

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not just directed at you but for all those on Sweats case. ALso, those saying ALlen Payne and not making game changing plays. 

 

As the players get more comfortable in thier roles and the Def they will make more wow plays. But still, the D is 2nd in QB hits with 91. Mopntez Sweat leads the team with 24. While sacks are the wow play,m hitting a QB also disrupts the play. It forces bad throws. So with 24, Montez Sweat has 26.4% of the teams QB hits. That's not a small %. ALlen and Paynre have 17 and 16 respectively. That's 62.6% of the QB hits are from 3 players. Next up is James Smith WIlliams with 13 - nice since he has a lot less snaps. 

 

Also, in terms of sacks - in 2021 they averaged 2.2 sacks a game. This year it's 2.6 - not a lot better. However, the last 3 gms it's been 3.3 including 4 last game. My point is this D is finally gelling (yes I wanted JDR fired last year and up to game 6 or so this year - I was wrong). Getting Chase back - if he plays within the system like the others are, this front 4 will be like none we have seen here in a very long time. And it's worth keeping that front 4 together. It changes eveything in terms of defense. 

 

I realize I am higher on Sweat than others. I have just seen him grow so much the last 12 months. And he jsut seems to be getting better starting with setting the edge and playing with discipline but still be a major disruption i nthe passing game. It is starting to show in the numbers. 

 

No way I let Sweat walk. I am one of the bigggest Chase Young fans but he has to show me he has learned from his time off. I resign both Payne and Sweat. Deal with it when Chase's contract comes up. But I do all I can to keep them together for as long as possible. If the CAP just does not work out, I trade Sweat right now unless Chase is just plain ass. He will not be worth more unless you resign him and he gets better. Then you don't want to trade him. Would help with the QB search. 

 

Team has some interesting decisions to make. Going to be a crazy offseason. 

 

 

Sweat to me is the least bang for his buck and the worst “overall” player of the four. He’s pretty bad at rush defense, though he has moments. That’s not to say he’s a bad player, though. His cost:play ratio will be the most out of whack of the DL. Therefore, I do what smart teams do: trade an asset for additional assets.

 

If I told you, and this is hypothetical, we trade Sweat for a 2, trade back in the first this year for a one and change and we package the one we get for trading back and the 2 we get for Sweat for a swing at a franchise level QB would anyone complain?

 

Paying Sweat is an option. Just don’t think it maximizes our assets.