kfrankie Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The bottom line here is that Kirk Cousins is a far better QB than anyone on our roster right now, and is better than anyone that will be on our roster next year (even if we draft Tua or Herbert or whoever). It appeared that he was willing to do a long term deal (6-7 years), so he'd be around until 2023 or 2024. So let's say a deal was done for 7 years, $180 million. Last we may have made the playoffs, this year would probably be rough, next year will be rough, but the his contract would take us beyond any roster rebuild. But quarterback would not have been an issue. He's durable and dependable. For Haskins, we wouldn't be saddled with a 2 year project period just to see if he's a franchise QB.** Nothing is guaranteed with him, and no one can say that what we've seen is encouraging. With Kirk, we would not need to worry about the position, other than acquiring a competent backup. Knowing what we know now, there would have been no disastrous Alex Smith injury, or the monetary/salary cap anchor associated with that. Kendall Fuller would be here, even though he hasn't exactly been the all-pro with the Chiefs like people thought he would be when we traded him. Free agent WRs would want to come here (or at least wouldn't avoid it), if for no other reason than the guy throws the ball a lot. I think the one drawback would be that Jay Gruden would have survived this year, so that may have pushed back the "rebuild." Despite the fact that the team is dreadful right now, I do see a solid young core: (1) John Allen (2) Daron Payne (3) Matt Ioannidis (4) Quinton Dunbar (5) Brandon Scherff (6) Terry McLaurin (7) Chase Roullier (8) Jimmy Moreland (9) Landon Collins (10) Maybe Nicholson, Holcomb, and Sweat. So we may only be a couple years away from competing. Things turn quick in the NFL. With a new head coach coming next year, hope springs eternal. But without a solution at QB, or really even an idea of who that QB is, it's difficult to be optimistic. In fact, I think the the guys listed above may waste the prime of their careers waiting to have this situation resolved. ** Side note here. I am not willing to waste 2 years just to find out whether Haskins can play. If I'm going to wait that long, what i need to hear is that "he's the real deal, he can play, but we're going to bring him along slowly because he's young and we want to get this right." I don't want to hear that he's having difficulty with the playbook (from multiple unnamed sources), that he's struggling with the offense (that's obvious to anyone, then again who's not struggling), or that he's still trying to improve his footwork. We need to find out over the next 8 games whether he's the answer, and by that I mean whether he has the tools to be the man. If not, we need to cut bait this offseason a la the Arizona Cardinals and find the next candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 ^Settle & possibly Foster/Guice/Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, No Excuses said: Kirk is going to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons I love Kirk too, but he missed the playoffs last year thanks to a week 17 choke. He is going to make the playoffs this year, but you are crazy if you are guaranteeing anything about the NFL a year from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tsailand said: I love Kirk too, but he missed the playoffs last year thanks to a week 17 choke. He is going to make the playoffs this year, but you are crazy if you are guaranteeing anything about the NFL a year from now. You are right, for some reason I thought the Vikings had lost in the wildcard round last year. Kirk still had a pretty good season overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, kfrankie said: It appeared that he was willing to do a long term deal (6-7 years), so he'd be around until 2023 or 2024. Where did you hear this, not from Kirk or his agent, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, volsmet said: You claiming something is mental gymnastics, or irrational, doesn’t make it so. You’re more emotionally invested in this than I can imagine being over anything, it’s legitimately fascinating. 4 weeks ago the Cousins move was considered an abject failure, for the Vikings, by everyone. That is correct and he has made changes in my opinion. More play action, moving out of the pocket, so creating opportunities rather then holding onto the ball too long and taking the sack, or the hit and the fumble. Again these are my observations following all the criticism he took from teammates and since he does not listen to the media, perhaps his lovely coach and OC suggested he needed to make those adjustments. The story on Cousin's is not completely written yet. Clearly if he holds steady at the same rate of play over the next 5 games, goes into the playoffs and has a run, it would be acknowledged he turned a corner. Point is we don't know yet. There will be the Kirk haters that are waiting for what they perceive as the inevitable ****ting the bed late in the game, and people like myself that think he continues to improve on his game. We will see real soon. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 55 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I don't disagree at all, I just don't really recall the Redskins FO being a huge liability being part of the soup back then. When referring to anything the Skins do, it has and probably always will be an understood and common ground in every convo, for me at least. Cause honestly, we all know what the problem is exactly. We just all know we cant do anything about it so we talk about all the other **** around it. Im also good at distracting myself and others with the colorful bull**** in and around my posts lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: That is correct and he has made changes in my opinion. More play action, moving out of the pocket, so creating opportunities rather then holding onto the ball too long and taking the sack, or the hit and the fumble. Again these are my observations following all the criticism he took from teammates and since he does not listen to the media, perhaps his lovely coach and OC suggested he needed to make those adjustments. The story on Cousin's is not completely written yet. Clearly if he holds steady at the same rate of play over the next 5 games, goes into the playoffs and has a run, it would be acknowledged he turned a corner. Point is we don't know yet. There will be the Kirk haters that are waiting for what they perceive as the inevitable ****ting the bed late in the game, and people like myself that think he continues to improve on his game. We will see real soon. 😁 Agreed. I love the discussion, I don’t give a hoot about Kirk, Case or Alex, I do enjoy reading what others see in these guys... the good/bad are irrelevant, it’s all just an interpretation of data & the data continues to come in on every player. Guys succeed for a number of reasons & guys fail for a number of reasons ... Goff is evidence of that, as is Foles. There are circumstances no QB can overcome, and there are circumstances almost any QB can *find success in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, No Excuses said: Quarterbacks thrive on good teams, especially with a good supporting cast. What an incredibly novel concept. The most Redskins thing is demanding that a quarterback not only be good, but he must be good while being surrounded by a complete and utter poop of a supporting cast. In that case, how the hell did Alex Smiff ever go 6-3 as starter here? It's not as if his supporting cast was upgraded significantly from "utter poop" in one offseason from what Kurk had to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, Califan007 said: In that case, how the hell did Alex Smiff ever go 6-3 as starter here? It's not as if his supporting cast was upgraded significantly from "utter poop" in one offseason from what Kurk had to work with. Alex Smith was below mediocre and a steep downgrade from Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 No. He is overrated and overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 My position on Kirk has remained unchanged for many years now. I understand his limitations, I get the frustration at late game interceptions that ruined the season. Nobody said he was going to be great and carry the team to the championship. But he's a Hell of a lot better than the stiffs they trotted out there for the 20 seasons before he arrived and he is certainly better than what they have now. It's no accident that they went from a 4 win team to a team competing for the playoffs as soon as he replaced Griffin. Finding a QB this good, even with all of his obvious flaws, is damned hard to do. The Redskins are about to spend the next decade and a half learning this lesson. When you have one it's foolish to let him walk. I understand the contract is an overpayment but that's kind of what you have to do seeing as there's only about 12-15 of these guys on the planet. If they chose to go in another direction failing to turn him into picks was nothing short of more incompetence from this front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfrankie Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, JSSkinz said: Where did you hear this, not from Kirk or his agent, that's for sure. Just generally on the radio during the offseason 2 years ago. Cooley and Kevin kept talking about what he would be looking for. I guess that's not to say they heard it from him or his agent. But when he decided to do only a 3 year deal with the Vikings, it surprised a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Why is this thread even in the Stadium? There is already a Kirk thread in the ATN. The only regret is Bruce still has a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, kfrankie said: Just generally on the radio during the offseason 2 years ago. Cooley and Kevin kept talking about what he would be looking for. I guess that's not to say they heard it from him or his agent. But when he decided to do only a 3 year deal with the Vikings, it surprised a lot of people. Kirk did a podcast 3 or 4 weeks ago, its in the Kirk thread in the 'Around the NFL" section. He tells everyone for the first time exactly what he and his agents plan was following the 2015 season. Based on some of the responses I think there are many on here who haven't heard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfrankie Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, JSSkinz said: Kirk did a podcast 3 or 4 weeks ago, its in the Kirk thread in the 'Around the NFL" section. He tells everyone for the first time exactly what he and his agents plan was following the 2015 season. Based on some of the responses I think there are many on here who haven't heard it. Can you give me the highlight so I don't have to dig through another thread while I'm at work? I hope he didn't say his strategy was process oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: Kirk did a podcast 3 or 4 weeks ago, its in the Kirk thread in the 'Around the NFL" section. He tells everyone for the first time exactly what he and his agents plan was following the 2015 season. Based on some of the responses I think there are many on here who haven't heard it. Would you be able to summarize to save us from hunting down the thread, finding the post in that thread, then listening to info on the podcast we are not interested in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, kfrankie said: Can you give me the highlight so I don't have to dig through another thread while I'm at work? I hope he didn't say his strategy was process oriented. He said that after the 2015 season his agent told him they were not signing a contract unless it was fully guaranteed and Kirk agreed. He then went on to say that with the insurance policy he took out and the franchise cap money in 2016 it was worth the risk to play year to year until he hit the market. So when people post that Mike Jones tweet where he says "sources" said that in 2017 we still had a chance at signing Kirk they were right but the missing part of that is that Kirk and his agent weren't signing a deal unless it was fully guaranteed. That's kind of important to know. I put some quotes in the ATN thread and the podcast isn't very long, it was a laid back conversation on a Vikes network and it was the first time I heard Kirk speak with his guard down concerning the whole debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I regret the team not hitting him up on that initial contract offer. That's really about it. Didn't seem like a real possibility after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Kirk Cousins > Bruce Allen. If we can all agree on that, lets end this thread forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, No Excuses said: Alex Smith was below mediocre and a steep downgrade from Kirk. That doesn't answer my question, though lol...In fact, it just underscores why I asked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 4:08 PM, Darc Requiem said: No. Kirk wanted a lot of money and he always choked in big games. Well at least we don't have to worry about even getting to any big games any more. This is basically the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. What's interesting about this also is that cutting off the nose to spite the face is claimed to have originated as an actual act to protect women vs the attacks of Vikings. Which apparently didn't work in this case. The Vikings took him and paid him all the money he could possibly want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said: What's interesting about this also is that cutting off the nose to spite the face is claimed to have originated as an actual act to protect women vs the attacks of Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 NFC Offensive Player of the Month..... Sure glad we don't have to put up with his junk anymore. Highest QB rating in the League for the first half of a season, a nothing burger. Miss him? No way, we don't need this kind of meaningless falderol. Thankfully we've moved to focus on the issue at hand, should the Skins start their much-traveled and somewhat injured journeymen that led them to a 1-7 record or unleash the can't miss first-round franchise quarterback who is only a thick playbook away from greatness? https://www.vikings.com/news/vikings-kirk-cousins-wins-nfc-offensive-player-of-the-month http://www.startribune.com/you-like-that-vikings-kirk-cousins-named-nfc-offensive-player-of-the-month/564157692/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Let's flip this question and ask does Cousins miss the Redskins? My guess is no, no not at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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