Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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22 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

OK..I'll bite...NAME a serious offer...what was IT???

 

FO has said time & time again they aren't dealing Trent in season. 

 

We know that the Texans, and Browns have inquired into his availability.  According to the reports, the Patriots offered their first rounder in August. 

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43 minutes ago, megared said:

 

FO has said time & time again they aren't dealing Trent in season. 

 

We know that the Texans, and Browns have inquired into his availability.  According to the reports, the Patriots offered their first rounder in August. 

Patriots 1st = 2nd Round Equiv. Too early in August to accept that. We DON'T know what Texans and Browns offered (except the Browns thought the ASKING pick# was too High, so we are negotiating. A 3 is too low because we *should* at least get a 3 in the off season.)

 

You guys are slamming the FO on conjecture. If we can't get better than a 3..wait till spring. Makes sense to me at least

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18 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Patriots 1st = 2nd Round Equiv. Too early in August to accept that. We DON'T know what Texans and Browns offered (except the Browns thought the ASKING pick# was too High, so we are negotiating. A 3 is too low because we *should* at least get a 3 in the off season.)

 

You guys are slamming the FO on conjecture. If we can't get better than a 3..wait till spring. Makes sense to me at least

 

You asked what offers had been made. 

 

We know that AT LEAST a low first rounder has been offered.  And imagining what the Texans gave to Miami, I'd be very inclined to believe they offered more.  

 

All of that desperation is going to be gone in the offseason.  And no, I wouldn't be happy to settle for a 3rd instead of a 1st because of 'precedence' and ego. 

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24 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

You guys are slamming the FO on conjecture. If we can't get better than a 3..wait till spring. Makes sense to me at least

You do realize that you are defending them on conjecture as well, right?

 

There is literally no way to ever prove what was or wasn’t offered on a trade that doesn’t come to fruition.

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You do realize that you are defending them on conjecture as well, right?

 

There is literally no way to ever prove what was or wasn’t offered on a trade that doesn’t come to fruition.

Just about to post this. 

 

There have been SO many reports that they won't even listen to offers, it seems like sticking your head in the sand if you don't believe that at this point. There is no defense to not finding out what teams are willing to trade. None. 

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4 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

OK..I'll bite...NAME a serious offer...what was IT???

 

There's a poster here with family in the league who has posted about a real offer from the Texans. Or an intended offer.

 

It sounds like Bruce is answering the phone and saying "we don't want any". Every single reporter local and national is reporting that. I don't know why you feel the need to argue about the value of the trades we're being offered when the real problem is that Bruce isn't open for business.

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8 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I appreciate that answer and my response is more likely to be aligned with what you believe so not killing the messenger here: 

 

The problem with that is punishing a player like that is cutting off your nose despite your face. As I said before it's a petty approach. Yes they will likely lie and say they got the same thing - but why? To what end? What not get it now when teams are desperate? 

 

And beyond that, you fired Jay. OK, this should be a sign of a new direction. Why not capitalize on that and trade TW. It's a like they have no understanding that trading him now would be a win for them in the fans eyes. 

 

 

Agree.  But as ex-agent Joel Corry mentioned from his own exchanges with Bruce -- Bruce hates to give into trade demands.  Making moves to prove a point versus making moves to win seems like a hallmark of Bruce/Dan.

 

My one hope is it appears that there might be some activity during the trading deadline and those teams will get some buzz.  This team has really little going for it at this stage of the season -- maybe Dan will get antsy to get some of his own buzz and he in turn pushes Bruce to make a deal.  Also we got the backdrop of the Nationals in the WS.  I genuinely think all that noise might get them off their posture.

 

I get a few people think this is just Bruce playing hard to get.  But most (granted not all ala that one report from Cleveland versus the others) of the noise indicates they aren't open for business.  If you are playing hard to get then you say you'd need to be blown away but if so you'd consider it.  That's sort of the reports from Jax about Ramsey.  It started with no, then it switched to we want two first round picks otherwise we won't trade him.   The reports on this one is mostly we aren't open for business.   But like I said I still see it as doable.  I was at the game today and it was pathetic between the no shows and the stadium overrun with SF fans.  You'd figure Dan has to have some breaking point?

  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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22 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

There's a poster here with family in the league who has posted about a real offer from the Texans. Or an intended offer.

 

It sounds like Bruce is answering the phone and saying "we don't want any". Every single reporter local and national is reporting that. I don't know why you feel the need to argue about the value of the trades we're being offered when the real problem is that Bruce isn't open for business.

Again, the Browns said the cost was too high...so Bruce gave them a price. I would think all inquires that were a #3 or worse would be rebuffed. I wish somebody from the Texans would come out and say it..if they hate Bruce that much in the league I would think that would leak out...

 

I'm not defending Bruce, Just saying if I can't get better than a 3rd before Oct 29, then wait till March. I'm no fan of Bruce but Trent put the team in a bad situation with his gambit. We are not going anywhere for a while (years) by the looks of this *whole* offense. Payback at least gives Bruce a little satisfaction. I can understand that response...especially if he thinks he's gone next year (Just like Vinny, Bruce has allot of pressure being put on him)

 

Even Dan has to see we are NOT CLOSE to a winning team after today. Defense...yea..Offense no way. The Oline is a mess, Richardson is a joke, AD is OLD and even if Smith comes back 100% the QB situation sucks. Trent's "value" won't solve all those holes but his "example" may dissuade future contract breakers....there is a value to that.

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4 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Again, the Browns said the cost was too high...so Bruce gave them a price.

 

Why do you keep hanging your hat on this. ONE reporter tweeted about this, and it wasn't even from a source, it was his "understanding" of the situation. Every other reporter says differently, but that guys fits your agenda so you keep quoting it. 

 

4 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Payback at least gives Bruce a little satisfaction. I can understand that response...especially if he thinks he's gone next year (Just like Vinny, Bruce has allot of pressure being put on him)

 

This is everything wrong with Bruce and you think it's "understandable". I think that says enough about whether you're defending him or not, regardless of what you say. 

 

4 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Trent's "value" won't solve all those holes but his "example" may dissuade future contract breakers....there is a value to that.

 

No, there isn't. You're being had for a sucker here, buying into this mindset imo. 

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26 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Why do you keep hanging your hat on this. ONE reporter tweeted about this, and it wasn't even from a source, it was his "understanding" of the situation. Every other reporter says differently, but that guys fits your agenda so you keep quoting it. 

 

 

This is everything wrong with Bruce and you think it's "understandable". I think that says enough about whether you're defending him or not, regardless of what you say. 

 

 

No, there isn't. You're being had for a sucker here, buying into this mindset imo. 

I'm waiting to see what happens at or before 10/29 4pm.  And you don't "understand" his reaction? Someone pisses in your corn flakes and you are OK with that? Examples/Precedents have value and influence people who may think about taking a similar path. If positive reinforcement fails, negative reinforcement is the other option.

Problem is...you guys blame Bruce more...*I* blame Trent more in THIS holdout. I blame Bruce/Scouts/Jay for the offensive trash they've put on the field. Too many High picks gone south.

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20 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I'm waiting to see what happens at or before 10/29 4pm.  And you don't "understand" his reaction? Someone pisses in your corn flakes and you are OK with that? Examples/Precedents have value and influence people who may think about taking a similar path. If positive reinforcement fails, negative reinforcement is the other option.

Problem is...you guys blame Bruce more...*I* blame Trent more in THIS holdout.

 

Not at the expense of making this team better.  Once payback crosses over into hurting the team to prove a point, you're no longer worthy to be entrusted as a steward of the franchise.

 

How is Trent to blame?  The FO knew exactly how this would play out by taking this route, and did it anyways.  Every point along the way, they had an opportunity to end it, and they haven't.  And Trent still hasn't said anything, not a peep to media.  He hasn't come out and overtly thrashed the FO.  How could he have better handled this, if he does feel like he can no longer trust the team?

 

What message does it send to the rest of the team, that a guy can give you 9 years of damn near HOF work, and you can't work with him to respect his wishes?  It's just petty.

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43 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Problem is...you guys blame Bruce more...*I* blame Trent more in THIS holdout. 

It's Trent's job to look after Trent. It's Bruce Allen's job to look after the Redskins. 

 

I literally couldn't care less whether Williams is making the right decision for himself or not. I do care that the guy in charge of our team would clearly rather "prove a point" than do what's right for said football franchise.

 

If you ignore that and spend your time "blaming" Trent for the situation, then you're just enabling Bruce to do the worst possible job, and frankly, you're a sucker.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly
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Exactly - Bruce and Dan are just plain dirt.  Instead of taking the high road, getting the most value for Trent, and help the franchise with additional picks - they stay true to form.

 

Have to see what happens next off season.

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There are living, breathing humans who believe Houston offered 2 first rounders & a 2nd for Tunsil, but nothing for Trent. Imagine thinking anyone in the nfl would rather have Tunsil than Trent & a first.

 

 

 


 

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1 hour ago, megared said:

 

Not at the expense of making this team better.  Once payback crosses over into hurting the team to prove a point, you're no longer worthy to be entrusted as a steward of the franchise.

 

How is Trent to blame?  The FO knew exactly how this would play out by taking this route, and did it anyways.  Every point along the way, they had an opportunity to end it, and they haven't.  And Trent still hasn't said anything, not a peep to media.  He hasn't come out and overtly thrashed the FO.  How could he have better handled this, if he does feel like he can no longer trust the team?

 

What message does it send to the rest of the team, that a guy can give you 9 years of damn near HOF work, and you can't work with him to respect his wishes?  It's just petty.

Honor his contract. A VERY Lucrative contract when he signed it. He's been paid VERY WELL for his services. The TEAM planned on having him and thus drafted accordingly. By most of the comments on here..he's been injured/not playing up to his pay check the last 2 years...ES words not mine

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's Trent's job to look after Trent. It's Bruce Allen's job to look after the Redskins. 

 

I literally couldn't care less whether Williams is making the right decision for himself or not. I do care that the guy in charge of our team would clearly rather "prove a point" than do what's right for said football franchise.

 

If you ignore that and spend your time "blaming" Trent for the situation, then you're just enabling Bruce to do the worst possible job, and frankly, you're a sucker.

break agreements he signed and was paid UP FRONT? Where do you draw the line? which players are OK to break contracts. How can a team plan? If you think it's OK for all 53 players to abdicate on their contracts at their discretion, then you are the sucker not me.

 

It's not Oct 29 4PM yet either

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He gave the FO plenty of time to address it.  He made his stance known early on.  He hasn't attended a single team activity this calendar year.  

 

If he feels the team mishandled his tumor, and he no longer trusts the medical staff...what compromise is there to be made?   

 

This isn't about a new contract for him.  He could've probably folded at any point in time and gotten paid handsomely to make the FO look good.  

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Dorsey and other teams interested in Williams have to wonder how long it will take him to be game-ready. If a trade is made before the Browns play the Patriots Oct. 27 and Williams could be ready after just two weeks, would it be worth a first-round pick to have him for just half the season? It would be if he solidified the offensive line and he keeps Baker Mayfield from being injured.

“If he’s been working out, it might take a game or two to get the rust off,” Browns left guard Joel Bitonio said. “A lot of the stuff translates over. I’m sure he’d be ready to go if something happened.”

Bitonio was not campaigning for a trade. He was just answering a question about how long it would take Williams to be ready to play.

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/browns/browns-gm-john-dorsey-has-a-dilemma-making-trade-offer/article_9901b460-f27c-11e9-92fb-a3de7e4087c1.html?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tw-newsheraldinoh&utm_campaign=socialflow

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14 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Honor his contract. A VERY Lucrative contract when he signed it. He's been paid VERY WELL for his services. The TEAM planned on having him and thus drafted accordingly. By most of the comments on here..he's been injured/not playing up to his pay check the last 2 years...ES words not mine

break agreements he signed and was paid UP FRONT? Where do you draw the line? which players are OK to break contracts. How can a team plan? If you think it's OK for all 53 players to abdicate on their contracts at their discretion, then you are the sucker not me.

 

It's not Oct 29 4PM yet either

 

This continues to baffle me that people hold this - He should honor his contract nonsense. Contracts in all walks of life are renegotiated all the time. And nothing he has done is outside the framework of the CBA. Its part of the contract the teams signed that - wait for it - they can renegotiate if they don't like it - although they fleeced the players last time so I doubt they want to change much - this is why there is likely to be a lockout in the next few years. Players will want to get back even and owners are not interested in that.

 

And he received only part of his money upfront - the signing bonus. That has nothing to do with years. The only reason it's prorated is to allow the team to spread the CAP hit. So it's not like he got paid all 5 yrs up front. Have you never received a signing bonus? Its a signing bonus for signing he is owed the money immediately.

 

As for the timing, he applied the most leverage. But the team has still had plenty of time to address this issue. They could have traded him many times already. Other teams have done so and oddly enough they survived. Not trading Trent is just petty and stupid - but perfectly legal under the agreement. If they want to continue to cut their nose despite their face then there is nothing to stop them from being incredibly stupid,

 

53 players do not have leverage to renegotiate. The team will simply let them sit out and not get paid and replace them with guys waiting for their turn. But if they all want to, they can. Nothing is stopping them. Teams release players all the time with years left - yes they are not guaranteed which is what most of these contract holdouts are about.

 

In this case - it is clear this is not just about money. He no longer trusts the training or medical staff or the entire team. So he has quit, Have you never quit your job before because you were unhappy? He is not an indentured servant. He can quit his job at any time. The consequence is he doesn't get paid and he can accumulate fines.

 

 

Edited by goskins10
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2 hours ago, FrFan said:

This draft has a lot of talented OTs

 

It sure would be nice to have two 1st Rd picks to take LT and another position of need. 

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1 hour ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

It sure would be nice to have two 1st Rd picks to take LT and another position of need. 

 

This team needs Playmakers. A Dynamic WR to pair with McLaurin would be huge. We will also need a LT and CB assuming that Josh Norman is released after this season (which he should be).  Don't know if there will be any CB's available in Free Agency that are good or not. 

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4 minutes ago, VaK9Trainer said:

 

This team needs Playmakers. A Dynamic WR to pair with McLaurin would be huge. We will also need a LT and CB assuming that Josh Norman is released after this season (which he should be).  Don't know if there will be any CB's available in Free Agency that are good or not. 

If we can get a 1st round pick for Williams then get a LT with your highest pick, then playmaker or DB with your other, also don't forget we could have upwards of 80m in cap space available as well to fill other areas of need in Free Agency. 

 

HTTR 

 

 

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It'd be awfully uncharacteristic of this team to go crazy in free agency.  And it'd totally negate the whole 'building a team through comp picks' strategy the team has been using. 

 

The level of planning, execution, foresight that would take, is not something our FO has demonstrated a competency for.  In the end, all it does is lower the ceiling on what a rebuild could accomplish.

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18 minutes ago, megared said:

It's be awfully uncharacteristic of this team to go crazy in free agency.  And it'd totally negate the whole 'building a team through comp picks' strategy the team has been using. 

 

The level of planning, execution, foresight that would take, is not something our FO has demonstrated a competency for.  In the end, all it does is lower the ceiling on what a rebuild could accomplish.

 

Well then don't go crazy in free agency & use a chunk of that money to buy out Smith's contract.  If they are truly serious about Haskins they need to get rid off all of the current vet QBs & simply bring in a true backup for Haskins.  Otherwise you will have the same mess as this season - a lack of direction & the temptation to play older, mediocre QBs who do nothing to build for the future.  Heck - play Haskins for the remainder of this season. If he is horrible & shows no real potential then consider going the Cards route & get another QB in the next draft.  These are all just things a real team would do or at least consider (which likely means it won't happen in DC).

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