2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[HigSkin]

Good listen of Rivera in the booth last night at the combine.  He talks philosophically about building the Dline front to back and then up the middle, how smart these combine QB's are including his conversations with Haskins, at little about bigger DB's, etc.  

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000001103885/Rivera-discusses-what-Redskins-are-looking-for-at-2020-combine

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

The draft starts with us at #2. The Redskins drafted Haskins at #15 last year NOT knowing they would be in position to draft Tua. Honestly I think this gets closer to 50/50 between Chase and Tua the closer it gets to draft day. 

 

Everything the Redskins are doing right now is correct. They're hyping Dwayne up and saying he's doing all the right things, but instead of just thinking this means it's foregone conclusion that he's our guy, this could also be us driving up his trade price. 

 

I'm also 50/50 on Chase or Tua. People think Dwayne showed enough to stick around for another year, but for me that's not necessarily enough to pass on a guy like Tua. He needed to prove he was the guy and he didn't. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Funny stuff

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-draft-dolphins-combine-friday-20200228-glhruktwpba2zdszgso3wc34hu-story.html

Tua Tagovailoa’s meeting with the Miami Dolphins during the NFL combine this week left the young quarterback wondering whether the team is the right fit for him.

After all the Tank for Tua talk surrounding him and the Dolphins the past 13 months, Tagovailoa believed the Dolphins would have the same amount of excitement as him for their first official meeting together Wednesday.

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Instead, Tagovailoa was surprised he received a bit of a cold shoulder. He left feeling uncertain about the Dolphins and their desire for him to be their next franchise quarterback, a source told the South Florida Sun Sentinel on Friday.

Despite the less-than-ideal first impression, Tagovailoa still wants to play for the Dolphins and hopes Miami can execute a draft-day trade to move from the No. 5 pick to land him.

 

Among Tagovailoa’s thoughts after the meeting:

“What just happened?

 

Quarterback Tua Tagovailoa flattered by the Miami Dolphins fan base’s obsession with him.

“How am I supposed to feel like it’s the right place for me if they act like that?”

“Maybe, they are after Justin Herbert.”

“No one was excited,” the source added. “They didn’t give any indication of ‘he’s their guy.’ He felt weird, like is this a joke?

“He’s not turned off, but it was just weird,” the source continued.

While news of Tagovailoa’s impression may be unique, his meeting was on par with many others the Dolphins have had with draft prospects and agents at the combine this week.

Dolphins coach Brian Flores is spearheading a stealthy operation with regards to the franchise’s thoughts and movements throughout the upcoming draft and free agency, and does not want the result of Miami’s meetings to divulge any of the team’s intentions.

Also, Flores has also been known to create adversity in a variety of ways to see how players respond in an effort to gauge their character and mental toughness, which could have been a tactic he used to test Tagovailoa during their first meeting together.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Maybe we will get our 2nd round pick back after all but him asked for the moon might depress his trade market, too

 

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I see Trent is trying to recoup some of that money that he missed out on last year. I say we just go after Conklin and hopefully he nets us a 2nd round pick in which we can use for an OT. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Something to ponder. 
 

Cincy takes Herbert at 1. Skins trade 2 to Dolphins for many many picks and they take Burrow. Lions take Tua at 3. Giants shock world and take Becton at 4. We sit at 5 .... 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Mekhi Becton.  He weighs 364 pounds and just ran a 5.11.  That's bananas.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I see Trent is trying to recoup some of that money that he missed out on last year. I say we just go after Conklin and hopefully he nets us a 2nd round pick in which we can use for an OT. 

 

If we get a 2nd rounder in this draft, honestly...I'd rather use it on a WR like Mims.

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Mekhi Becton.  He weighs 364 pounds and just ran a 5.11.  That's bananas.

 

 

 

If we get a 2nd rounder in this draft, honestly...I'd rather use it on a WR like Mims.

 

I want to see Mekhi Becton's short shuttle 😂. 

 

I totally agree about not wanting to reach for an OT in the 2nd. I'd try to package Trent and Dunbar and change for a first and grab a guy like Wirfs or Andrew Thomas if either drops. Use Trent's money to sign 2 CB's instead of one. Younger. Less injured. No more expensive. 

[Fresh8686]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Anyone here watch either guy?  I haven't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/albert-okwuegbunam?id=32194f4b-5748-5869-ee3e-85d5399ce937

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/rob-gronkowski?id=497240

 

 

I don't think we've considered Albert O enough. He's huge. Like, almost Grongowski sized. One inch shorter, 6 pounds lighter, but with the same arm length. It's interesting to me that he ran a 4.49, but participated in no other drills. He's missed some time with shoulder injuries. His ball skills look great. High points it, and he appears to be a hands-catcher. Looked at as a potential 1st rounder going into this year. 

 

I wouldn't mind him at all in the 4th. 

 

 

[KDawg]

An offensive lineman seriously only got 11 reps? That’s amazing. But the wrong kind of amazing.

 

Becton is intriguing. But his film shows a blocker who relies a lot on bulldozing people and not so much on technical prowess. I should probably Dvr the combine because I can’t watch now. 

[nonniey]

55 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Something to ponder daydream about. 
 

Cincy takes Herbert at 1. Skins trade 2 to Dolphins for many many picks and they take Burrow. Lions take Tua at 3. Giants shock world and take Becton at 4. We sit at 5 .... 

FTFY.

[KDawg]

Realistically, if Cincy values Herbert, they try to trade back. Even for minimal return. And that is a problem.

 

That allows the Lions to jump us for Young. 
 

Or the Giants.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Anyone know if 3sigmaathlete is going to update?  Tristan Wirfs is looking like a he's going to join that 3 sigma club.

[The Consigliere]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some of the TE's IMO had disappointing combines, some had decent ones, my opinion has definitely changed on some of them after yesterday but not my top 2 -- Trautman, Kmet. 

 

 

 

Confirmed the verdict going in that none of these guys would be ranked with the top guys of '17, '18 or '19, and that is emphatically true. Very frustrating to keep hearing that we're now sniffing around for TE's just in time for the worst TE class since in years and years. Just pure foolishness. The class sucks, it's a straight garbage. Hentges and Wilson are every bit as good a prospects as virtually all of these guys if not better (well, Hentges isn't, he just might be one of those Will Dissly, Dad Runners that is actually able to be productive), Wilson is the TE w/the actual profile that's intriguing). 

 

If we want a TE, we'll need to go out and sign one, or make do with Hentges, and Wilson, we don't have the draft capital to land the only TE's in this class that don't suck. I get that maybe the Hunter's are interesting, but I sure as hell wouldn't use our very high 3rd rounder on literally any of these scrubs, nor a pick gained on a potential day one trade down. Forget that. Make do until we have a class coming in with actual talent. 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Anselmheifer]

11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I think I'd find a way to move Trent and pieces to grab Wirfs, if he isn't in the top 10. 

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That was an awesome 40.  He's really good and probably one of the safest picks in the WR group because of that rare combination of speed, power, motor, and production.  I could see him getting drafted in the second.  He's like Ruggs in that he can produce on really easy stuff to incorporate into your offense and he is such a tough man cover.  What he does well should translate to the NFL.

 

13 feels a bit low for him.  I could see him being like the sixth WR taken, I think he's better than Shenault, Aiyuk, Raegor, and Hamler, and a little better than Pittman.  My WR board would be like:

 

1 - Lamb

2 - Jeudy

3 - Ruggs

4 - Higgins

5 - Jefferson

6 - Tyler Johnson

7 - Mims

8 - Hodgins

9 - Duvernay

10 - Pittman

11 - Shenault

 

But I think Duvernay has a chance to get drafted well ahead of Johnson and Hodgins, and maybe even Higgins.

 

Yikes, Reagor not in your top 10, damn, you really do loathe him as a prospect. I've now managed to unearth multiple articles with references to timed forties at 4.29 and 4.32, when you combine that info with word that he bulked up like crazy for the weigh in, the 4.47 makes a bit more sense. Couldn't come across anyone who expected him to do a low forty, so I imagine that makes sense. Have no idea if those forties were stop watch based, but I would imagine they were, and if so, on average you need to drop that time a full .05 seconds in comparison to the combine time which would slot them at 4.34 and 4.37 respectively. Regardless, it wasn't the combine. Am curious how he'll run at a pro day, I imagine he'll get back to normal, but probably not those earlier times w/the bulking up.

 

Regardless, the ranking strikes me as more than a little nutty, but then again you're a tape guy, and I'm an analytics guy. 

 

I have Reagor as my WR3. 

 

Tyler Johnson is going to be a day 3 pick if the rumors circulating are correct, there are even some who think he may fall through the rafters a la Ishmael Zamora a few years ago and be an undrafted free agent. 

 

If I were to rank them pre draft capital, there are some areas I'm confident with (in bold):

Tier 1:

1.Lamb

2. Jeudy

3. Reagor

 

Tier 2:

4. Higgins-I dont know how to rank him w/o the athletic profile and draft capital plugged in. Post pro-day it will be easier.

5. Jefferson

6. Mims-Haven't done the research yet. 

7. Shenault

8. Edwards-The lack of athletic testing will drop him farther than this

9. T. Johnson-He sounds like a day 3/UDFA at this point which is totally inexplicable to me, but that's what the rumors sound like. Not a great athlete, I get it, but that bad?

 

Tier 3:

9. Bowden-Not sure how he'll be used, but he'll be a monster on the right team.

10. Pittman-For what was expected, like Jefferson, he blew up the combine, he's a late tier 2 guy or a top of tier 3 guy for me, though I need to do some crosschecking. 

11. Ruggs-Competition for targets ruined his breakout age (didnt happen), production just isn't there beyond TD's, ridiculous athlete. Zero hits on players with his profile drafted in 1st round this past decade. HIGH HIGH RISK selection. Screams Ted Ginn. I think he'll be a limited deep game weapon, we'll see if he's more than that, will definitely be drafted to be more than that. 

12. Aiyuk-Awful pro day versus expectations, I have him here for now, probably dropping him a lot.

 

I need to do research on everybody else that might be worth tossing into the top 12 pile, especially considering I might need to dump Edwards, Johnson, Ruggs, and Aiyuk out of it entirely. to reiterate, I love Edwards and Johnson as prospects, but I fear they will not get a fair shake in the pros, and may end up buried at the bottom of depth charts after going potentially on day 3, and if that happens, they will need to be selected by smart teams with openings on the depth chart for them to make an impact. Sometimes players fail simply because of landing spot. There are incompetent organizations, and terrible situations you can fall into. 

 

Some links re: Reagor:

https://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/2020/02/nfl-scouting-combine-2020-10-players-who-could-run-the-fastest-40-yard-dash.html

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2822235-10-fastest-players-in-college-football-in-2019#slide0

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Mekhi Becton.  He weighs 364 pounds and just ran a 5.11.  That's bananas.

17% body fat on a man that big is freakish.

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think I'd find a way to move Trent and pieces to grab Wirfs, if he isn't in the top 10. 

 

Would love to, but I think it'd take way too much.  Bruce Allen's decision to be spiteful and not trade away Trent last year for Cleveland's 1st will haunt this franchise for years.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Confirmed the verdict going in that none of these guys would be ranked with the top guys of '17, '18 or '19, and that is emphatically true. Very frustrating to keep hearing that we're now sniffing around for TE's just in time for the worst TE class since in years and years. Just pure foolishness. The class sucks, it's a straight garbage. Hentges and Wilson are every bit as good a prospects as virtually all of these guys if not better (well, Hentges isn't, he just might be one of those Will Dissly, Dad Runners that is actually able to be productive), Wilson is the TE w/the actual profile that's intriguing). 

 

If we want a TE, we'll need to go out and sign one, or make do with Hentges, and Wilson, we don't have the draft capital to land the only TE's in this class that don't suck. I get that maybe the Hunter's are interesting, but I sure as hell wouldn't use our very high 3rd rounder on literally any of these scrubs, nor a pick gained on a potential day one trade down. Forget that. Make do until we have a class coming in with actual talent. 

 

 

 

I don't recall a single person both here or draft geek type that argued that the top TE's in the class matched the top TE's in the previous class.   In fact it was practically a mantra about the TE's that its not top heavy.  The nuanced point about this is how do these TEs ranked in the 3rd to 5th round range compare to last year's group.  Is that point relative to the Redskins?  Of course.  We aren't taking a TE clearly in the first round or 2nd.  It would be in the 3rd-5th round range.  

 

Are you taking a step down by matching:  Trautman and Kmet in the third versus the group below?  I liked Sternberger and Knox in particular in that next group of TEs before that draft.  But IMO Kmet and Trautman are up there with those two potential wise.

 

3rd to 5th range last year:  Josh Oliver, Jace Sternberger, Kahle Warring, Dawson Knox, Trevon Wesco, Foster Moreau. Kaden Smith

 

Guys going in that range this time potentially:  Albert O, B. Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, maybe Deguara, Sullivan (considering his combine performance), maybe Hunter Smith

 

Considering the dearth of FA options at TE.  i am more than on board with taking one of these guys in the 3rd-5th range.  And yeah I do think these guys are plenty competitive with last year's 2nd tier group.  I like Cole Kmet and Trautman in particular.  And they aren't going in the first round.  There are no Hockenson type or Noah Fants or Irv Smith.  But the next group IMO is competitive with the 2019 2nd tier group.  There are no headliners this time.  But IMO taking Kmet in the third isn't some big come down from let's say taking Oliver in the third last year.  

[The Consigliere]

I'm not saying that people are comping these guys w/those classes, I'm arguing that these guys flat out aren't good, like, period. That they're not worth the draft capital. I'd rather go after day 2/3 guys like Jonnu Smith, George Kittle, Ian Thomas, Bucky Hodges, Tyler Conklin, Troy Fumagali, Chris Herndon, Kahale Warring, Josh Oliver etc. There were guys you could get later in the draft in those classes that were damn good prospects. Some of these guys haven't done anything, Hodges, Conklin, Fumagali, and last year's guys I love like Warring, Oliver etc. Regardless, what matters to me is that the TE's you could've selected last year in round 3/4, some of the guys like Ian Thomas, Jonnu etc, they were better TE prospects than essentially anybody in this class (maybe Troutman's an exception, some people like the Harris guys, the guy with the insanely long name who just ran an amazing 40 was the consensus #1 TE coming into this past fall before disappointing so maybe he's an interesting prospect). 

 

What I'm trying to say is that you could've gone TE on late day 2, or through round 5 on day 3 in 2017, 2018, and 2019 and found guys that had fantastic profiles athletically and in terms of production, breakout age, all of it. That flat out isn't true this year. This years class has just has one fast TE, two quality athletes, and then a bunch of blech. I'd rather pass entirely when a class looks like that. If you can't find Smith's, Warring's, Ian Thomas', Herndon's, Oliver's, Knox's, even Sternberger (who I was kind of wishy washy on, but still think could surprise), then you just need to address other positions and wait till the next class. Don't take a TE because you need them. If the class sucks, it sucks. The RB classes in '09-'14 were horrible. You might have gotten lucky and landed one of the tiny handful of RB's that didn't suck from those classes (Lev Bell was one), but the overwhelming majority of those prospects looked bad from the jump and proved to be as awful as projected, yet still, teams with RB needs pulled the trigger just like they did when another bad RB class hit in '16, and again last year (to be fair, in '16 it was so god awful, that few pulled the trigger until late day 2 early day 3). That's what this TE class is to me. There are two guys worth a top 100 pick, the Harris guys might be worth a day 3 dart throw, but I'd just eschew the position entirely, wait for a better class, trade or sign someone instead.