2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

Wirfs put up a Trent Williams workout.  OT2 and clearly the best candidate to switch from  RT to LT in the NFL.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Strange comments re: Wirfs. Robbie Duncan is my Skins go to on OL and he says Wirfs is a solid tackle but good guard at the next level even with these results. Wonder if he’s a schefff type. 
 

Im not sure we can get a quality OT in this draft without trading off 2. Will be hard to come back up for one even with pick for Trent. But trading Trent does free up another $14 million in cap space which would go a long way. 
 

If Trent is truly seeking $19-20m+ per year I doubt we get more than a 3 for him

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I

What I'm trying to say is that you could've gone TE on late day 2, or through round 5 on day 3 in 2017, 2018, and 2019 and found guys that had fantastic profiles athletically and in terms of production, breakout age, all of it. That flat out isn't true this year. This years class has just has one fast TE, two quality athletes, and then a bunch of blech. I'd rather pass entirely when a class looks like that. If you can't find Smith's, Warring's, Ian Thomas', Herndon's, Oliver's, Knox's, even Sternberger (who I was kind of wishy washy on, but still think could surprise), then you just need to address other positions and wait till the next class. Don't take a TE because you need them. If the class sucks, it sucks. 

 

I agree you don't take a TE that sucks.  But I disagree with the point -- especially that Trautman and Kmet suck.    

 

Ian Thomas wasn't some polished stud. Ditto Josh Oliver.   You want production, you want some athleticism, you got them scattered among this group whether its Albert O, Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, etc.   Hopkins stats > Thomas-Oliver.    These guys have the potential to compete with most of the players you mention.

 

There are no front line stars.  But the top tier of this group IMO competes more than fine with the 2nd tier of some of the previous classes including last year.  

 

 

[Going Commando]

There is real incoherence in the way Wirfs is being evaluated.  For instance, Zierlein talks about him having basketball quality sets/slides and freaky explosiveness and athleticism, but then he says he oversets and has a mediocre first step and only really has potential at right tackle or guard.

 

Nah man.  A guy with that much power and athleticism, whose pass sets are that good, needs to be playing left tackle in the NFL.

 

He also questions Wirfs's length but Wirfs has 34 inch arms and an 80 inch wingspan.  Length is legitimately good.

 

He dings him for not having the explosive drive blocking power to match Brandon Scherff's, but that doesn't really matter because he's going to be playing LT in the NFL, not RG.

 

Feels an awful lot like people are trying to come up with reasons for why this kid isn't a top ten pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

Wirfs's 40:  https://www.nfl.com/videos?id=10103061-7033-0000-0110-42275447ed66

 

Look how good the first few steps are.  1.69 ten yard split.  This dude is ****ing explosive and he's on a different athletic level from all of the other OLs in the class.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

The “oh **** we need assets” mock ...

TRADE: TW a for 2.9 with Cle

TRADE: 1.2 for 1.5, 1.18, 2.56, ‘21 1st

1.5: Jeff Okudah, CB OSU

1.18: Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama

2.9: Denzel Mims, WR Baylor
2.24: Akeem Davis-Gaithersburg, LB App St

3.2: Isaiah Wilson, OT Georgia
4.2: Bryan Edwards, WR So Car

4.38: Darrell Taylor, Edge Tenn

5.2: Stephen Sullivan, TE LSU

 

org reset. Mainly on offense. Hope coaches can work magic with defense. Go spend $$ on CB, TE, LG, RG, DE with your now $76 million in cap space

[Going Commando]

That is a great 40 time from Jonathan Taylor.  He's the best back in the class IMO.  I'd put him in my top 15 and he is almost as good a RB as Jeudy and Lamb are at their position.

[KDawg]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

That is a great 40 time from Jonathan Taylor.  He's the best back in the class IMO.  I'd put him in my top 15 and he is almost as good a RB as Jeudy and Lamb are at their position.

 

I like Taylor. I think Clyde Edwards-Helaire is my RB1. Taylor would be 2. Swift is RB3. I like Booger, Jr., but not sure if it's RB4 levels of like. 

 

But those 3 are my top 3, and are essentially interchangeable. 

 

RE: OTs:

 

Wirfs, Thomas & Wills > Becton, in my opinion.

 

Film doesn't lie. Becton is big and powerful, but he relies on mediocre technique and absolutely steam rolling guys. He's a good semi project. He probably can start right off the bat, but I think he'll have some growing pains on pass downs and against the stronger DEs. I don't think he's a bad pick. I just wouldn't pick him ahead of the other three. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree you don't take a TE that sucks.  But I disagree with the point -- especially that Trautman and Kmet suck.    

 

Ian Thomas wasn't some polished stud. Ditto Josh Oliver.   You want production, you want some athleticism, you got them scattered among this group whether its Albert O, Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, etc.   Hopkins stats > Thomas-Oliver.    These guys have the potential to compete with most of the players you mention.

 

There are no front line stars.  But the top tier of this group IMO competes more than fine with the 2nd tier of some of the previous classes including last year.  

 

 

I didn't say Trautman sucked, I think I've made a point of using him as an exception that we can't reach because of the Sweat trade. Long name dude would be a speculative guy that I wouldn't take with our 3rd and might go before that after his forty, the Harris guys aren't worth day 1 picks or our very high 3rd to me, though if we ended up trading down I might be curious. 

 

As for Oliver and Thomas, they were/are very attractive targets, much more attractive in terms of draft capital cost than anything I can see in this class, w/early third or early 4th rounders (where they were selected). 

 

Thomas had a middling dominator, 58th percentile, and a 43rd percentile breakout age, but his athletic markers were very attractive, 71st percentile speed score, 84th percentile burst, 74th percentile agility drill. Getting him early in the 4th this year would be lovely, alas, not to be. Oliver gives you that 65th percentile production marker, a yucky late breakout like our very own Caleb Wilson, but those athletic markers: 87th percentile speed score, 57th percentile burst, and then a less impressive 37th percentile agility score (curious if that matters that much, but you certainly want a marker better than that regardless). You could get him basically at our pick this year. Warring was my guy last year and he came cheaper still with a better profile. 

 

I just don't agree at all with your view of these guys, suffice it to say, we don't agree at all on it. There's a reason this class has been called the worst positional class of the draft, while last year's TE class saw a ton of guys go day 1, day 2, and early day 3. I don't see that happening this year, though need will always end up pushing someone up. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think Dillon shocked a ton of people today. Have they done 3 cones yet? I've been driving around for three hours. People expected Dillon to do a 4.6 to 4.65ish time. 

[KDawg]

Sitting here thinking about trade scenarios...

 

And the worst thing that can happen to the Redskins is if the Bengals decide, "Well, ****. We kinda like Herbert. He's not Burrow. Or Tua. But he's good and has a future. We can draft him a little lower in the draft. Which means we can trade back, get some extra picks, and still get our guy. Let's call Detroit and the Giants and see if they want to do business."

 

As a guy who is open with who we take, this scenario is currently occupying my head space. If that happens, Chase Young is gone. Which means at pick 2 we have both quarterbacks on the board. At that point, I'm not entirely sure how to proceed. You almost have to trade back in that scenario. In that case, the second pick may be worth a small fortune. 

 

I wouldn't want to go much further back than 5 or 6, though. 

 

I just hope that scenario doesn't happen. I don't think it does. But it's nightmare fuel

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[volsmet]

My man Wirfs

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I didn't say Trautman sucked, I think I've made a point of using him as an exception that we can't reach because of the Sweat trade. Long name dude would be a speculative guy that I wouldn't take with our 3rd and might go before that after his forty, the Harris guys aren't worth day 1 picks or our very high 3rd to me, though if we ended up trading down I might be curious. 

 

As for Oliver and Thomas, they were/are very attractive targets, much more attractive in terms of draft capital cost than anything I can see in this class, w/early third or early 4th rounders (where they were selected). 

 

Thomas had a middling dominator, 58th percentile, and a 43rd percentile breakout age, but his athletic markers were very attractive, 71st percentile speed score, 84th percentile burst, 74th percentile agility drill. Getting him early in the 4th this year would be lovely, alas, not to be. Oliver gives you that 65th percentile production marker, a yucky late breakout like our very own Caleb Wilson, but those athletic markers: 87th percentile speed score, 57th percentile burst, and then a less impressive 37th percentile agility score (curious if that matters that much, but you certainly want a marker better than that regardless). You could get him basically at our pick this year. Warring was my guy last year and he came cheaper still with a better profile. 

 

I just don't agree at all with your view of these guys, suffice it to say, we don't agree at all on it. There's a reason this class has been called the worst positional class of the draft, while last year's TE class saw a ton of guys go day 1, day 2, and early day 3. I don't see that happening this year, though need will always end up pushing someone up.

 

 

 

You said you wouldn't take a TE in this class, not worth the draft capital.  So even if you don't think Trautman sucks, you wouldn't take him or any TE in this class unless I am misunderstanding you?  If so you can't think that much of the dude.  None are worth taking in the 3rd-5th round?  If so, will see soon enough if Kyle Smith agrees with your assessment.   

 

As for what its being called as a class, I presume you mean the draft geek types.  And yes that's true and mainly because there is no first tier TE type and I agree with that point.  But as a listener to a lot of draft geek type podcasts, most of them see it the way I do which is there is good value once you dive into the 3rd-5th rounds and they just about all tout certain players versus saying they wouldn't touch anyone there.  

 

You can take your Oliver and Thomas over Kmet and Trautman. Or Kaden Smith or whatever 4th-5th round 2019 TE over Albert O or Brycen Hopkins and we will agree to disagree. 😀  The idea that a class is good or bad in general IMO has nada to do about whether you take a player or not from a class.    I'd add considering you being mostly just about the numbers -- we actually got some of these dudes with good numbers, incidentally and stack quite fine against the Ian Thomas' out there.  And again unless i got you wrong, the argument is none of these guys are worth taking in the 3rd-5th draft capital wise.  

 

Brycen Hopkins ran a 4.66, and caught, 61 receptions, 831 yards, 7 TDs.  Not exactly yawn numbers. 

Albert O. with a 4.49 the 4th brt time for a TE since 2003

Trautman had a decent combine albeit not scintillating 

Kmet is a big dude, decent blocker, runs a 4.7.  Faster than Ian Thomas, better vertical jump, more productive on most measures, you name it

Harrison Bryant, 1004 yards, 15 YPA.  disappointing combine though.  Ditto Hunter Bryant -- good production but "meh" combine. 

 

This is far from a group of pure losers IMO where none have any value in the 3rd to 5th rounds.    As for the general thought of this isn't a good TE class.  Yep that's true but mostly from the perspective of it lacking headliners.  But the idea that some of these guys aren't good value in the 3rd to 5th round where they are worth a pick, you are close to being on an island on that one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

4.38: Darrell Taylor, Edge Tenn

 

 

[Slypted]

With our uncertainty at RB, Ive been looking at guys that might be available in the later rounds. 

 

2 guys that pass the eyeball test for me are Anthony McFarland from Maryland and Scottie Phillips from Ole Miss.

 

McFarland has good burst and can threaten a house call from anywhere. I think he needs work in pass pro, but I havent seen much on this. Mocks I'm seeing have him in rounds 4-6.

 

 

Phillips has good burst as well and seems to be decent in pass pro. Hes a bit shiftier than expected. 

 

Biggest surprise for me is how under the radar Phillips seems to be right now like round 6-undrafted. 

[volsmet]

5 minutes ago, Slypted said:

 

Phillips has good burst as well and seems to be decent in pass pro. Hes a bit shiftier than expected. 

 

Biggest surprise for me is how under the radar Phillips seems to be right now like round 6-undrafted. 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

That is a great 40 time from Jonathan Taylor.  He's the best back in the class IMO.  I'd put him in my top 15 and he is almost as good a RB as Jeudy and Lamb are at their position.

 

 

[Going Commando]

He's not just a great athlete.  He's the best at setting up his blocks in the class.  The best in the past couple of classes IMO.  He can be productive in any scheme and situation.

[volsmet]

When I watched Wiscy, Taylor seemed to put the ball on the ground with regularity, is that an issue for him or did I just see a bad night or two? It was ridiculous v Purdue.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

He's not just a great athlete.  He's the best at setting up his blocks in the class.  The best in the past couple of classes IMO.  He can be productive in any scheme and situation.

Yeah, their final output (the 97-99 scores) includes college production as well as size and athleticism.  Pretty great company for him to be in.  
 

The wear and tear is definitely a concern though for a team looking to sign him beyond his rookie contract. I’d personally run him into the ground for 5 years and let him move on. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

At that point, I'm not entirely sure how to proceed. You almost have to trade back in that scenario. In that case, the second pick may be worth a small fortune. 

I like Haskins enough and I think he can be a good NFL starter, and possibly with the right situation, a really good NFL QB. 
 

Assumption 1: Burrow has a higher grade and upside than Haskins.  
 

Assumption 2:  you can get a late first or early second for Haskins. 
 

Assumption 3: you don’t sign Rivers or Brady I’m FA. 
 

If those 3 assumptions are true, you say screw it and take Burrow and move Haskins. 

QB is the most important position on the team and if you think Butrow can be Aaron Rodgers, you don’t blink, you just take him. 

 

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I’d personally run him into the ground for 5 years and let him move on. 

 

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I like Haskins enough and I think he can be a good NFL starter, and possibly with the right situation, a really good NFL QB. 
 

Assumption 1: Burrow has a higher grade and upside than Haskins.  
 

Assumption 2:  you can get a late first or early second for Haskins. 
 

Assumption 3: you don’t sign Rivers or Brady I’m FA. 
 

If those 3 assumptions are true, you say screw it and take Burrow and move Haskins. 

QB is the most important position on the team and if you think Butrow can be Aaron Rodgers, you don’t blink, you just take him. 

 

I wonder what people think we could get for DH. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I wonder what people think we could get for DH. 

So the reason I think a late first or early second is I’m assuming the top 3 QBs are gone.  So then you’re comparing Haskins to QB4 or lower in this class.  I think he stacks up well, he’s still on his rookie deal and has some good NFL starting experience. 
 

So if you’re a QB needy team who didn’t get Butrow, Tua or Herbert, he’s a good option, with some positive upside.  It’s almost like he’s be in this draft and he’s probably the 3rd or 4th rated QB in this years draft.