2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

46 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I’m in physical pain.  Sweat better be worth giving up that 2nd round pick. 
 

 

He & Haskins both, we don’t trade up if not for the owner pushing Haskins, our current GM was going to draft Sweat right there. They’re two of our most gifted players, easily, now we get to see what our new staff can do developing them.

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

24 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Raegor isn't as fast as people (Jeremiah) think he is.  Someone in this thread pointed out that they didn't think he had an elite top gear, and they were right.  He's explosive and an excellent leaper, but the long speed is just good rather than great.

 

I'll take credit for that one. His athletic numbers are a perfect confirmation of his tape. Very twitchy, but lacking elite deep speed. He's no Terry McLaurin, but, I still think he'd make a good complement. Across from a complete WR with speed, like WR, I thin Raegor could be really good. He could take underneath balls for long gains, gets open in the intermediate routes, and the defense still has to respect him deep. I do think his combine pushes him out of our range, and I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. It's going to push other players down. 

 

I think there is a good chance that a really solid CB falls to us at the top of the 3rd. There are going to be WR's pushed down to the 4th and 5th that are still really solid. 

[volsmet]

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

On 2/26/2020 at 4:50 PM, volsmet said:

We need to get a contest done for the ES, I wonder who here can get 20+. Useless, yet interesting.

 

Eighteen months ago, I got 16 reps of 225 at 162 pounds, 27 pull-ups and 3 consecutive muscle ups. No hope for 20 reps now. I've gained weight and I'm half as strong and I'm up at 1:30am drinking vodka and posting on a football forum after working a 15 hour shift! 

 

I think SIP's 4.4 is the most impressive feat listed so far. 

[volsmet]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Eighteen months ago, I got 16 reps of 225 at 162 pounds, 27 pull-ups and 3 consecutive muscle ups. No hope for 20 reps now. I've gained weight and I'm half as strong and I'm up at 1:30am drinking vodka and posting on a football forum after working a 15 hour shift! 

 

I think SIP's 4.4 is the most impressive feat listed so far. 

27 pull ups with 16 reps weighing 162 is far more impressive than what I see at the gym, I certainly haven’t done 27 pull ups in my life. 
 

The ES draft syndicate is ready for war.

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Dalton Keene had himself a combine.  We need to take a look at him.

 

Chase Claypool has grabbed peoples attention as a candidate to switch to TE.  What about Juwan Johnson for the same role?  He becomes more than a seventh rounder or puffs at that position instead of at wr.

Apparently he played running back in HS... and it shows

 

Only watched his highlights so far - he catches and runs with the ball quite well, good size, speed and testing... he’s one to watch (rocket up boards) for sure.  

[volsmet]

 

 

[KDawg]

The time of year we've all been waiting for...

 

the SPIRAL Tropical Bowl. 

[Skinsinparadise]

of my 2nd tier favorite WRs, obviously adios to Mims.  Going late first or 2nd.  But with Higgins not running and who knows what he runs.  Maybe @stevemcqueen1 is right, I recall him seeing weeks back that Higgs could be a surprise faller to the 3rd.   

 

 

 

 

This dude who I liked too too albeit not as much might be still within range, that's good time for a dude his size

 

 

 

 

Trautman did well enough IMO and i like his tape

 

 

 

 

 

Kmet did well enough, too IMO and I like his tape as well

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Some of the TE's IMO had disappointing combines, some had decent ones, my opinion has definitely changed on some of them after yesterday but not my top 2 -- Trautman, Kmet. 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think it’s important reading through some of these comments that the combine is not and should not be used to elevate players or drop them too much. I know there was some buzz on Mims but I’m not sure this combine jumps him ahead too much.

 

I also think we need to caution ourselves on putting too much stock in the mid tier talent. I’m guilty of this every year. But I think this team takes a major step back if we trade Trent for a 2nd. Yes a 2nd is nice to have but the person stepping in won’t get near Trents production out of the gate ... or ever. 
 

Im also not suddenly in the trade down camp because a couple WRs flashed good speed. Stick to our guns. 
 

1: Chase

trade 66 down for a mid 3 and 4

3: TE

4: WR

4: LB

4: OT

5: CB

If we trade Trent for a 2+4 and Dunbar for a 4 ...

1: Chase

2: OT

3: CB

4: WR

4: TE

4: LB

4: WR

5: OT

 

Or in some combo. I think it’s clear we are going WR+TE with two of our earlier mid round picks. We’ll see how FA shakes out, but I think we avoid WR on the market due to the depth 

[Skinsinparadise]

I think there is a decent shot Mim's leapfrogs Higgins.  I still love Higgins though. But it does feel like his agent had some apprehension from him doing the drills -- some thought the combine would hurt his stock because he might not be that fast.

 

 

 

 

As for Reagor, IMO he did well enough.  That 10 pounds or so he put on I gather slowed him down some.  4.47 is still good.  He's explosive IMO.  If the 4.47 drops him to the third round, I'd love it.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I think it’s important reading through some of these comments that the combine is not and should not be used to elevate players or drop them too much. I know there was some buzz on Mims but I’m not sure this combine jumps him ahead too much.

 

 

I'd agree if you previously didn't love Mims but Mims was my guy aside from Edwards in the next tier of receivers.  I think these combine numbers will elevate him assuming teams likewise liked his tape previously.  

 

 

 

• Chase Claypool, Notre Dame

Claypool ran a 4.42 and vertical jumped 40.5" at 6'4, 238. He has a future in the NFL as an Evan Engram-type, who really functions more as a huge slot receiver. A comparison of their measurables at their respective Combines:

Measurable	Chase Claypool	Evan Engram
Height	6'4	6'3
Weight	238	234
40 time	4.42	4.42
Bench press	19 reps	19 reps
Vertical jump	40.5"	36"
Broad jump	126"	125"

And then production:

 

1. Claypool: 4 years at Notre Dame, 150-2159-19
2. Engram: 4 years at Ole Miss, 162-2320-15

 

Engram was something of a surprise pick at 23rd overall in 2017. Maybe Claypool sneaks into the Round 1? At a minimum, he'll go Day 2.

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/stock-stock-down-eagles-wr-targets-after-nfl-combine-testing/

[Skinsinparadise]

• Since 2003, only two receivers have measured at least 6-foot-4 and weighed at least 235 pounds and run the 40-yard dash in under 4.45 seconds. The first was Calvin Johnson. The second? Notre Dame's Chase Claypool (4.42), who is No. 108 on my board.

•  

• USC's Michael Pittman Jr. continues to be overlooked. I see a nice parallel to Steelers WR JuJu Smith-Schuster here. Pittman will likely end up a second-round pick, land somewhere as a WR2 and just go off. He knows how to separate, and he's a meticulous worker. He posted a 4.52 in the 40, and wouldn't you know it, Smith-Schuster ran a 4.54.

 

• Texas receiver Devin Duvernay was flying in the 40, posting a 4.39. He has the speed, and he certainly produces: Duvernay had 106 catches for 1,386 yards and nine touchdowns in 2019. He ranks No. 69 overall and No. 13 among receivers.

 

• First off, back off Justin Jefferson, Mel. He has been in the top 32 on my board for quite a while now. The 4.43 in the 40 headlined a great workout, and I loved one of the over-the-shoulder catches he made on a vertical throw without breaking stride.

 

  I wrote in our combine preview that Notre Dame's Cole Kmet, my top-ranked tight end, needed to run a 4.70 40, and that anything slower than that could    cause him to drop. So what did he run? Exactly a 4.70 40. Kmet also posted the top vertical jump at his position (37 inches). He's going to stay atop my list of tight ends.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/insider/story/_/id/28794029/2020-nfl-combine-recap-kiper-mcshay-top-draft-prospects-risers-best-workouts-more

[KDawg]

Pittman, Jr. might be my favorite "non-heralded" receiver. I use that term loosely. Him and Justin Jefferson, who I, embarrassingly, didn't even realize was in this class because no one was talking about him (I probably missed chatter in this thread)... Last night when I saw him running drills was when the revelation hit. I can't believe more people aren't talking about him, though. 

 

Collin Johnson being hurt, again, is an issue. He may fall pretty far. If he's on the board in the fifth he really should be considered. I think he's going to be a bit slow, though. We'll see. Gonna keep my eye on him. 

 

Question for those of you more in tune with the full depth of the receiver class as far as draft positions go... Where are you guys seeing Claypool go as a receiver?

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Pittman, Jr. might be my favorite "non-heralded" receiver. I use that term loosely. Him and Justin Jefferson, who I, embarrassingly, didn't even realize was in this class because no one was talking about him (I probably missed chatter in this thread)... Last night when I saw him running drills was when the revelation hit. I can't believe more people aren't talking about him, though. 

 

Question for those of you more in tune with the full depth of the receiver class as far as draft positions go... Where are you guys seeing Claypool go as a receiver?

 

I like Pittman a lot.  He is tall, really good hands, decent blocker, high character guy and his speed is good enough.  Claypool is one of the few bigger name receivers that I haven't watched, I should be able to get to him today. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Those 3rd/4th round picks really need to go towards WRs.

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked Pittman a lot.  He is tall, really good hands, decent blocker, high character guy and his speed is good enough.  Claypool is one of the few bigger name receivers that I haven't watched, I should be able to get to him today. 

 

I just don't understand why Claypool would opt to be a receiver versus a tight end if he's not in the top 3-4 rounds as a receiver. Unless he has ZERO confidence in his ability to be a blocker. Or he wants to do the pretty work but not be in the thick of things. 

 

If he can get a blocking skill set he could be a dominant tight end. Which would net him a lot of money in his career. If he's a top 3 round pick receiver, I'd probably stay as a receiver, too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I just don't understand why Claypool would opt to be a receiver versus a tight end if he's not in the top 3-4 rounds as a receiver. Unless he has ZERO confidence in his ability to be a blocker. Or he wants to do the pretty work but not be in the thick of things. 

 

If he can get a blocking skill set he could be a dominant tight end. Which would net him a lot of money in his career. If he's a top 3 round pick receiver, I'd probably stay as a receiver, too. 

 

I try to keep an open mind until I watch them play a few games and I'll get to it today.  But I agree with your point, this draft isn't brimming with athletic TE's so in theory TE would be the better money maker for him as to his stock.  

 

His stats are certainly good

 

2019 SEASON STATS

• REC

  66
• YDS

  1,037
• TD

  13
• AVG

  15.7

[Skinsinparadise]

I was watching Okudah on GMF today.  If that is any indication of how he interviews, he's going to kill it.  He comes off smart, articulate, charismatic. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

We've had a small discussion about Netane Muti and reached a consensus that we like him, but his godawful injury history is a nonstarter.

 

We should take a look at John Simpson and have a discussion about him too.  Zierlein seems to really like him, and compared him to Kelechi Osemele.  That's gotten my attention.

 

We should also go ahead and discuss Jonah Jackson, Ben Bredeson, and Robert Hunt after that.  Really nail down how we feel about these potential day two and early day three targets at guard.  I'd like a ranking of those five players + Damien Lewis, Cushenberry, Biadasz, Ruiz, Kindley, Lemieux, and Stenberg.

 

We haven't really dived into the IOLs much this year, but guard is potentially a dire need.  This class actually sounds pretty good too.  Some of the NFL comparisons that Zierlein made are Osemele, Stefen Wisniewski, Cody Ford, Joe Dahl, Lakin Tomlinson, Corey Linsley, Gabe Jackson, and James Daniels.  That's pretty good for mid round value.

[KDawg]

One of the biggest winners of the receiver group last night, aside from the names already mentioned, is Navy quarterback (NFL WR candidate), Malcolm Perry. He looked smooth and natural as a receiver. He's going to get a look somewhere.

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise Yeah, Higgins and Mims have been pretty much neck and neck for me for some time.  Mims’ combine, Higgins not testing, and seeing Mims on that chart of catchable balls... he moved ahead for sure (for me).  Especially since they both had questions about their route tree and only Mims has answered it so far.  

His situation really parallels Darnell Savage last year.  My ‘grade’ was easily higher than everyone else’s for a few months (which, being a novice, made me question my opinion), but then 1) the buzz started matching my take, and 2) they killed it at the combine.  
Akeem Davis-Gaither is a similar example.  He looked like a 1st-2nd rounder to me on tape (though level of competition and size put him more as a solid 2nd rounder for me), but experts had him 3rd-4th.  Combine might help move him closer to my line of thinking.

 

@stevemcqueen1 I haven’t honed in on guards, but from what I’ve read (that reading partly spurred on by your suggestion that this is a a deep IOL class) I think you’re right.  I’ll start looking at those guys in short order.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise Yeah, Higgins and Mims have been pretty much neck and neck for me for some time.  Mims’ combine, Higgins not testing, and seeing Mims on that chart of catchable balls... he moved ahead for sure (for me).  Especially since they both had questions about their route tree and only Mims has answered it so far.  

His situation really parallels Darnell Savage last year.  My ‘grade’ was easily higher than everyone else’s for a few months (which, being a novice, made me question my opinion), but then 1) the buzz started matching my take, and 2) they killed it at the combine.  
Akeem Davis-Gaither is a similar example.  He looked like a 1st-2nd rounder to me on tape (though level of competition and size put him more as a solid 2nd rounder for me), but experts had him 3rd-4th.  Combine might help move him closer to my line of thinking.  
 

 

 

Akeem is a top 3 OLB/S guy. His instincts are off the charts. His block destruction is great. He takes proper angles. He's quick. He's game fast.

 

I hope his combine numbers aren't great and he falls to the third. I know, we keep saying we hope everyone falls to the third. But you can't pass on Simmons lite to add to Chase Young (if we go Young). 

[skinny21]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Akeem is a top 3 OLB/S guy. His instincts are off the charts. His block destruction is great. He takes proper angles. He's quick. He's game fast.

 

I hope his combine numbers aren't great and he falls to the third. I know, we keep saying we hope everyone falls to the third. But you can't pass on Simmons lite to add to Chase Young (if we go Young). 

Agreed.  He also, as I mentioned previously, fits that versatility Rivera talked about.  He’s a stud in my book and the “red flags” really don’t bother me that much... they’re more of a guess/explanation  (on my part) as to why he won’t be taken quite so early.

I do wonder if the team even considers him much with Foster, Holcomb and SDH in the mix though.  Not that I think that should stop them, but if they see him as ‘good’ value in the 3rd vs you and I seeing ‘great’ value, they may have other prospects at higher positions of need that they feel are equal or perhaps even better value.  
 

All of that is kinda obvious, but just saying...

 

Edit:  Oh, and I agree about Pittman.   Claypool I think just cemented himself in day 2, so I doubt the TE talk really comes to much, but that could change depending on the situation he lands in.  My guess is Collin Johnson is looking at anywhere from 6th-UDFA at this point IMO.  

[HTTRDynasty]