2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The interviews would be interesting.  I've heard a few people say Herbert is a bit eccentric personality wise and not the most outgoing with teammates.  Burrow on the other hand is described with mega intangibles-leadership qualities.  Herbert is so up and down as a QB, too.  I read he's having a good senior bowl though.  

 

But to your point even if they like Burrow over Herbert, if they like Herbert enough maybe a crazy haul of picks would sway them to take their chances.  

 

People are discounting a team trading to 1 for Young... 

 

I wouldn't discount that possibility.

 

If Cincy is shopping the pick because they like Herbert, they could likely trade as far back as 6 or so. That gives them a bunch of dance partners. Maybe even further than that. I would not, under any circumstances, want to see anyone trade for the 1 pick.

 

People can sit here and say "not a chance" all they want, but if Young is as good as we think, and pass rushers are that important, I'd rule NOTHING out.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

People are discounting a team trading to 1 for Young... 

 

I wouldn't discount that possibility

I agree.

 

If the narrative is that he is generational and too good to pass at #2, then why would he not be a target for somebody at #1.

[KDawg]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I agree.

 

If the narrative is that he is generational and too good to pass at #2, then why would he not be a target for somebody at #1.

 

Because people have convinced themselves that there is NO WAY Cincy trades away the first pick. Yet, there are people here who like a trade back scenario. Really smart people. I'd bet there's at least convos in our front office...

 

Why wouldn't Cincy's FO be doing the same?

 

I mean, I don't think it happens at all, but Carolina could be in play to trade up for Burrow... Newton + 1 this year + 1 next year for #1 overall this year. Brady reunited with Burrow.

 

That would likely be a trade for a QB. But there are other scenarios where a team could try to move up for "the best pass rusher in the last decade plus". I mean, why wouldn't you?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Kiper's first mock:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/insider/story/_/id/28545312/2020-nfl-mock-draft-10-mel-kiper-early-first-round-nfl-draft-predictions-joe-burrow-qbs-more

 

Just looked at it.  Okudah is getting as entrenched at 3 in mocks as Young is at 2.  He has Simmons up higher than most.  But I am with Kiper on this.  I am not in the Simmons is the moon and stars and beyond group.  I am a hair below that.  But I do think he's going to be a star.    But IMO Chase Young > Simmons and its not just by a hair.

 

He has Lamb over Jeudy.  He has Thomas as the first LT.   My dude Kmet in the first round (I don't like that but there are other TEs I like too that I think can fall to the third 😀)  My dude Queen also in the first (so another pipe dream of mine perhaps of him falling to the third)

 

 

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

That would likely be a trade for a QB. But there are other scenarios where a team could try to move up for "the best pass rusher in the last decade plus". I mean, why wouldn't you?

I suggested a while back before Burrow went off on one that the Bengals could take Young at #1 then jump back into the first round for a QB. Or take one at #33.

 

Free agency is also unusually stacked with a fairly decent crop of QB as well.

 

Plenty of open scenarios.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

People are discounting a team trading to 1 for Young... 

 

I wouldn't discount that possibility.

 

If Cincy is shopping the pick because they like Herbert, they could likely trade as far back as 6 or so. That gives them a bunch of dance partners. Maybe even further than that. I would not, under any circumstances, want to see anyone trade for the 1 pick.

 

People can sit here and say "not a chance" all they want, but if Young is as good as we think, and pass rushers are that important, I'd rule NOTHING out.

 

I would discount it if its the Dolphins specifically trading to #1 for reasons I explained previously. 

 

As crazy as it may sound to Redskins fans, Dolphins fans would go ape in a bad way if they accumulate all that draft capital and used much of it for a pass rusher.  The narrative for years has been the Dolphins have built other great units over the years, including ironically a pass rush, but they've blown it at QB again and again and again.  So enough is enough, and let's fix that and get the best QB in the draft. 

 

Multiple sports writers here have said that 's what their owner, Ross, is thinking which is you can't win without a franchise QB and they have to do whatever they can to fix that.  They've tried to work around their QB issues but have come to the conclusion that it simply doesn't work.  They've had their monster defenders over the years see Jason Taylor, Cameron Wake, Zach Thomas, etc. but no QB.  So if the Dolphins mortgaged their picks all the way up to #1 and still didn't take Burrow and took a pass rusher -- that would be a stunner considering the context.

 

As for rumors, heck as we all know, we will hear everything from now and then.  Cincy loves Young.  Cincy open to trading.  Cincy isn't open to trading.  Cincy considering Tua.  Then the Redskins will be linked to just about everything, ditto the other teams in the top 5.  As we all know, it comes with the turf.  It happens every year.  Part of it is click bait, teams leaking rumors for their own purposes, etc. 

 

Naturally these teams want others to think they are capable of doing anything.  it serves the game.   Even if your intention is to hold onto the pick, it doesn't hurt to listen.  And you want to give other teams the impression that you love multiple players in the hope that one team might get antsy and you can take advantage of it. 

[Est.1974]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I mean, I don't think it happens at all, but Carolina could be in play to trade up for Burrow... Newton + 1 this year + 1 next year for #1 overall this year. Brady reunited with Burrow.

or maybe they trade up with us and Rivera reunites with Cam 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

https://phinphanatic.com/2019/12/13/stephen-ross-wants-new-miami-dolphins-quarterback/

 

Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross believes that he has found the right head coach but now he wants a franchise quarterback.

It is no secret that the Miami Dolphins want a new quarterback. Josh Rosen doesn’t appear to be it and Ryan Fitzpatrick is not it. It is now on the shoulders of Chris Grier to find one because his boss wants one.

In an article posted by Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald, Stephen Ross told Salguero that quarterback is a want of his. The question is will or can Chris Grier deliver the product that will lead Ross’ franchise into the future?

 

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-backs-teams-rebuilding-direction/

Detractors will point to the fact that there have been other teams who identified franchise quarterbacks without resorting to gutting the roster. But that isn’t the point. Stephen Ross’ organization has slapped bandaids on holes on their roster for a decade. It’s time to try something different. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/dolphins-owner-attended-lsu-alabama-to-scout-his-future-qb/ar-BBWyxjg

Dolphins owner attended LSU-Alabama to scout his future QB

 

 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This draft is so stacked with receivers that my thing is being part of the party even if just a little.  Grab a receiver in the 4th or 5th, etc or if there is a surprise faller in the 3rd.   There are some O lineman that intrigue me depth wise but they don't tend to fall.   Receivers often do.

 

66 should have some really intriguing options available.  I think, given that nine underclassman tackles declared, there is a really good chance that an unusually good OT will be available at that pick.  I also think that there is a pretty solid chance a good corner like Jaylon Johnson is available at that spot too.  Biadasz has been dropped on big boards recently too, which has opened up hope for me that he'll be available there too.  He's like a top 40 player in this class.  He'd be almost a full round of positive value if we snagged him at 66, there is unlikely to be another player who'd be a bigger BPA candidate than him.  Still having a hard time accepting he'd fall that far.

 

But 66 could also be the spot for a DK Metcalf type value pick where we're talking about getting a future Pro-bowler at WR given the depth of the position this year.  Tyler Johnson or Justin Jefferson or Isaiah Hodgins could easily be available.  I've seen Hodgins ranked in the 170s on several big boards, people are really sleeping on him.  And it seems crazy, but Tee Higgins could be available too.  These are good day one and early day two players who are way, way better than any of the tight ends in this year's class.

 

Barring a major value selection like Higgins or Biadasz at 66, I'd also be open to trading back at that spot in order to create some more opportunities for mid-round value.  Picks 80-150 should offer a lot of value for WRs, RBs, and interior OLs.  Maybe some value at DB too.

 

I've kind of stayed out of the TE conversation thus far, but wanted to opine that Breeland has been my favorite TE in the class so far.  I think he's going to be a fifth or sixth round pick given the injury.  That's where I'd hunt value at the position this year.  Ditto for linebackers and running backs, where I think we can dig up decent players in that range.  And I think linebacker and defensive back are going to have good players to scoop up in the seventh as we're picking early in that round.  I've been consistently able to get guys like TJ Brunson and Julian Blackmon in that range on fanspeak mocks.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

However, they could draft Young, figuring he's the sort of pass-rusher who's hard to find and who can instantly upgrade a defense. He's athletic and, at 6-foot-5, has good length. He parlayed that into 16.5 sacks and 21 tackles for a loss last season. The adage about never having enough pass-rushers would apply. So, too, would this thought: You don't pass on elite pass-rushers.

Washington could try to trade Kerrigan or release him, saving $11.687 million against the salary cap. He has one year remaining on his contract. If the Redskins want to start Sweat and Young, then Kerrigan would become an expensive backup -- albeit one who would be part of the rotation. The old regime had initial talks about extending Kerrigan's deal, but coach Ron Rivera and Del Rio are not tied to any player.

 

They could also trade back in the draft with a team that might want Young or, more likely, quarterback Tua Tagovailoa (assuming LSU quarterback Joe Burrow goes No. 1 to Cincinnati). There could be competition between Miami (fifth), the Los Angeles Chargers (sixth) and Carolina Panthers (seventh), depending on their evaluation of Cam Newton, to move up for a quarterback.

Those options will be discussed -- over and over again -- before the draft. But whatever the Redskins do, Young will be drafted high.

"He's an explosive guy that can bend and do things you need to do to be an elite pass-rusher, a little like Von," ESPN NFL analyst John Fox said.

Which, again, brings it back to Del Rio. It's no coincidence that, during his three seasons as Denver's defensive coordinator under Fox, the Broncos ranked third in third-down defense. Over the past two seasons combined, the Redskins ranked last in third-down defense.

 

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Denver had a stronger secondary than Washington does now, which contributes to the disparity in those statistics. The Redskins did rank seventh in percentage of sacks per pass attempt this season, according to ESPN Stats & Information. They were also 10th in sacks (46) without an elite pass-rusher.

"It starts up front," Fox said. "The best pass defense in the world is a pass rush. ... Most teams that are good every year [on third down] have a good four-man rush. You can be a lot more intricate in the coverages you run. The minute you bring that five-man rush you're limited to single-high coverages. That's what makes San Francisco so good is their four-man front is probably better than everyone else."

 

Sure enough, the 49ers rank third on third downs. Last offseason, the 49ers traded for pass-rusher Dee Ford after they had invested first-round picks along the defensive line in three of the previous four years. Still, they made the no-brainer choice by selecting another Ohio State pass-rusher at No. 2 overall last season -- Nick Bosa. He has nine of their 48 sacks, which were tied for fifth this season. The 49ers ranked second in holding opposing quarterbacks to a Total QBR of 42.6. It starts with the pass rush. Which, eventually, leads back to Young and Washington.

 

"You can't have too many of them because you only have five pass protectors and you've got four rushers and you can't double everybody," Fox said. "The more guys you have the better."

[Going Commando]

He's right.  If you have a four man rush then you can use whatever back seven personnel group you want.  Complete freedom to design your seven man coverages to hide the weaknesses of your defensive backs.

 

Pair a good four man rush with a stable of good defensive backs and you've got the ingredients of a top five defense.  This our ticket out of the cellar and into contention.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I've kind of stayed out of the TE conversation thus far, but wanted to opine that Breeland has been my favorite TE in the class so far.  I think he's going to be a fifth or sixth round pick given the injury.  That's where I'd hunt value at the position this year.  Ditto for linebackers and running backs, where I think we can dig up decent players in that range.  And I think linebacker and defensive back are going to have good players to scoop up in the seventh as we're picking early in that round.  I've been consistently able to get guys like TJ Brunson and Julian Blackmon in that range on fanspeak mocks.

 

My gut is one of the 4th rounders will go to a TE.  I haven't watched Breeland.    But from what I've watched thus far, I'd be happy with Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Trautman, Kmet maybe even Pickney if they can nail one in that range.  Most of them are likely gone by then but one might still be there.   I am with you as to the third round pick liking having a surprise drop so the way I am looking at that spot right now is to be open to just about anything. 

[skinny21]

Obviously, I assume Cincy takes Burrow, but if they are serious about liking Herbert better, have them close or are a little torn between the two, I’d worry that Detroit trades up for Young.  
Cincy, worst case, gets to choose between Burrow/Herbert (or Tua), and Detroit gets an elite pass rusher that will make life a lot harder on Trubisky/Cousins/Rodgers.  After seeing the way San Fran handled the Packers, I could see Detroit thinking Young gives them the best avenue to compete in the division, especially short term.  

 

@stevemcqueen1 I have a feeling that Pittman runs a sub-4.5 and might go in the 2nd because of it.  OTOH, between the guys you mentioned that are clearly above him, guys that surge in the draft process (Mims is a good example), and the depth of this class... he might be pushed down a bit.  
In my eyes, he’s pretty much a complete player though - speed, size, hands, route running, blocking ability,  production, pedigree and leadership.  

[Going Commando]

Just thinking about that Cleveland pick at #41, would you all take that in return for Trent Williams?  I think I would.  I'm looking at the big boards:

 

CBS has Tega-Wanahogo at 42, Isaiah Wilson at 44, Josh Jones at 47, Niang at 56, and Trey Adams at 58.

Drafttek has Adams and Tega-Wanahogo off the board by 36, but they've got Wilson at 46, Jones at 47, Becton at 49, and Niang at 66

TDN has Tega-Wanahogo at 48, Austin Jackson at 49, Niang at 52, Jones at 67, and Adams all of the way down at 121.  They've got Wilson at 328, but that feels like they just haven't really evaluated him yet.

 

So if we trade Trent for 41, there is probably a good chance that at least three or more of these names are still available.  We could have a nice choice between the third tier of tackles and presumably draft Trent's long term replacement.  Obviously none of them are close to as good as Trent, but they're potential long term answers whereas we are in a state of uncertainty about Trent's future here.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

He's right.  If you have a four man rush then you can use whatever back seven personnel group you want.  Complete freedom to design your seven man coverages to hide the weaknesses of your defensive backs.

 

Pair a good four man rush with a stable of good defensive backs and you've got the ingredients of a top five defense.  This our ticket out of the cellar and into contention.

This is huge/key for me. How many 3rd and 6+ conversions did we give up. it's crippling, but was even more crippling this year. A TON of that is on the Defensive Coordinator. We had/have a talented front already. But add Chase Young to Allen/Ionidis/Payne and Sweat and you can drop 7 on passing downs. It's a huge advantage. And occasionally sending a 5th rusher in either Kerrigan on the outside or Payne/Io on the inside could get them there so fast the QB can't even check his first read.

[skinny21]

BTW - @volsmet, PFF’s favorites in the NFL draft 

 

EDGE CURTIS WEAVER, BOISE STATE

If Chase Young didn’t exist, we’d talk a lot more about how dominant Weaver has been. Even with his effectiveness being limited by playing through an ankle injury down the stretch this season, Weaver still finished his second consecutive season with a pass-rushing grade over 92.0. In all three of his seasons at Boise State, he’s had double-digit sacks and 20-plus combined sacks and hits. That’s elite production and consistency. While the level of competition is certainly a concern, we haven’t seen other group-of-five rushers put up numbers close to this.

 

@stevemcqueen1 - 

OT JOSH JONES, HOUSTON

There are two boxes we love to see ticked from an offensive line prospect. The first, quite obviously, is pass protection proficiency. If you can’t block up college defensive linemen, it ain’t going to get easier in the NFL. The second is continued improvement over the course of a career. Offensive line is such a technical position that if someone isn’t putting in the work to refine their craft, they won’t last long in the league. No one comes to the NFL a finished product, and so to see a guy make improvements over the years is necessary. Jones ticks both those boxes with flying colors. He allowed all of four pressures on 325 pass-blocking snaps this past season and saw his pass-blocking grade improve every single year of his career. His most notable leap came from junior to senior year, where his overall grade jumped from 71.9 to 93.2.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-under-the-radar-sleepers-prospects-2020

Jones is getting a lot of love...

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Matt Miller is gushing on Becton on twitter. Said he's gotten afirmation from a trusted strenght/OL trainer that's been working with Becton and is confident that he'll be a 1st round OT.

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Rumor has it that Cincy is falling in love with Justin Herbert... I can't imagine being the one to make this decision, but could they try to move out of 1 and dance with Miami, moving back to 5, getting a haul of picks, and still getting Herbert?  

 

Sounds like run of the mill draft season clickbait. Every year there are those sorts of rumors and 95% of the time it ends up being nonsense. Weren't there "rumors" about the Colts actually liking RG3 over Luck for a while? Cincy is taking Burrow, but sports writers need to get people to read their stuff so they throw **** at the wall. Or maybe sometimes people in organizations leak something nonsensical...and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if sometimes it's purely for the sake of entertainment to watch the entire sports writing industry go bananas. 

[mhd24]

WOW:

 

 

 

Andrew Thomas late 1?

[OVCChairman]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That feels like a lying season rumor, but never underestimate the base stupidity of bad front offices and coaching staffs when it comes to the QB position.  Mitch Trubisky got picked ahead of DeShaun Watson.  There is no acceptable explanation for that in any universe.  It's an enduring lesson for how god damn stupid so many guys who get paid (quite well) to do this are when it comes to quarterbacks.

 

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sounds like run of the mill draft season clickbait. Every year there are those sorts of rumors and 95% of the time it ends up being nonsense. Weren't there "rumors" about the Colts actually liking RG3 over Luck for a while? Cincy is taking Burrow, but sports writers need to get people to read their stuff so they throw **** at the wall. Or maybe sometimes people in organizations leak something nonsensical...and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if sometimes it's purely for the sake of entertainment to watch the entire sports writing industry go bananas. 

 

 

Yeah i get that... and with the top of this draft APPEARING to be pretty 'set' then a lot of these types of things, and conversations, are going to pop up.  I'm not naive enough to know that people get paid to sell stories, so if you can speculate a theory that people can justify in their own mind, then consumers tend to take notice, especially if it adds an element of drama to what a lot of people believe is a foregone conclusion.  There are going to be A TON of stories coming out prior to the draft, and the safe bet is that 1-5 ends up the way it's been predicted over the last 2 - 3 weeks.... 1 - Burrow, 2 - Young, 3 - Okudah, 4 - OT, 5 - Tua. 

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

Yeah i get that... and with the top of this draft APPEARING to be pretty 'set' then a lot of these types of things, and conversations, are going to pop up.  I'm not naive enough to know that people get paid to sell stories, so if you can speculate a theory that people can justify in their own mind, then consumers tend to take notice, especially if it adds an element of drama to what a lot of people believe is a foregone conclusion.  There are going to be A TON of stories coming out prior to the draft, and the safe bet is that 1-5 ends up the way it's been predicted over the last 2 - 3 weeks.... 1 - Burrow, 2 - Young, 3 - Okudah, 4 - OT, 5 - Tua. 

 

Yeah every year the overall predictions tend to be on the money with regards to the first 5 picks. Every once in a while there's a big surprise or a huge splash trade but not all that often. It's after 5 that things start to get more murky generally.

[Poindexter]

57 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

BTW - @volsmet, PFF’s favorites in the NFL draft 

 

EDGE CURTIS WEAVER, BOISE STATE

If Chase Young didn’t exist, we’d talk a lot more about how dominant Weaver has been. Even with his effectiveness being limited by playing through an ankle injury down the stretch this season, Weaver still finished his second consecutive season with a pass-rushing grade over 92.0. In all three of his seasons at Boise State, he’s had double-digit sacks and 20-plus combined sacks and hits. That’s elite production and consistency. While the level of competition is certainly a concern, we haven’t seen other group-of-five rushers put up numbers close to this.

 

@stevemcqueen1 - 

OT JOSH JONES, HOUSTON

There are two boxes we love to see ticked from an offensive line prospect. The first, quite obviously, is pass protection proficiency. If you can’t block up college defensive linemen, it ain’t going to get easier in the NFL. The second is continued improvement over the course of a career. Offensive line is such a technical position that if someone isn’t putting in the work to refine their craft, they won’t last long in the league. No one comes to the NFL a finished product, and so to see a guy make improvements over the years is necessary. Jones ticks both those boxes with flying colors. He allowed all of four pressures on 325 pass-blocking snaps this past season and saw his pass-blocking grade improve every single year of his career. His most notable leap came from junior to senior year, where his overall grade jumped from 71.9 to 93.2.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-under-the-radar-sleepers-prospects-2020

Jones is getting a lot of love...

 

I'm not very impressed with Curtis Weaver.  I think if he lost some bad weight he could be a pretty productive player but right now he carries some bad weight, has good hands and is a real football player, but his athleticism is lacking and it really showed when they played FSU.

 

My guy is Javon Kinlaw.  That kid right there reminds me of Bruce Smith.  I think he's going to be a stud and if he drops some weight he's going to be a force.

[kingdaddy]

Sorry folks, I've been thinking again, this time after reading an article saying how the Skins would need to listen to Miami if they offered a King's ransom for the #2 pick. What if the Skins, Dolphins and Lions worked a 2 way deal where both the Skins and Lions ended up splitting what Miami gives Washington in a move to go up to #2. Something that looks like this:

Miami gets: Redskins #2 overall pick (Takes Tua)

Redskins get: Detroit's #3 overall pick plus pick #36 (2nd round) from Miami (take Young)

Giants pick whoever at #4

Detroit gets: #5 pick, #18 and #56 from Miami

 

Miami ends up trading two 1sts and two 2nds in this years draft to move up to #2.

Skins get Chase Young and an early 2nd from Miami

Lions draft Simmons or Okudah plus acquire Miami's other 1st round pick  (#18) and a  late 2nd (#56).

 

 

The way I see this, if Miami is willing to pony up the 4 picks to go up to #2, everyone wins....plus, Miami keeps their third 1st round plck. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

• Since the start of the 2020 NFL Draft process, many projected Alabama wide receiver Jerry Jeudy to be a top-five pick, including myself. However after speaking to a few team sources, they feel Jeudy could go lower than than that, perhaps in the No. 6-16 range. The main reason is size, as Jeudy is listed at 6-foot-1, 192 pounds, which is not very big for a No. 1 receiver. The other issue hurting Jeudy is how strong and deep the 2020 NFL Draft is at receiver. Teams picking high in the first round know a first-round caliber receiver will probably be available to them in Round 2, so they can get a top-five talent at a different position that does not have as good of options in the second round that wide receiver does. Thus, Jeudy could end up going lower than the typical projection during the 2019 season.
  
• After a survey of team sources, here are the players who stood out for interviewing well at the Senior Bowl:
   

• • Florida wide receiver Van Jefferson
  • Dayton tight end Adam Trautman
  • Southern Illinois safety Jeremy Chinn
  • Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert
  • Temple offensive lineman Matt Hennessy
  • Utah cornerback Terrell Burgess
• http://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Senior-Bowl-Rumors-Friday