2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

Never had a talk about him, but it wouldn’t be hard to find out what the pro’s & con’s are with him. We need a TE desperately, obviously.

 

 

Ballard said he will let him FA.   And his response here seems to have a tinge of anger perhaps in it. 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

For @Skinsinparadise

 

 

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, volsmet said:

This draft may have the best DE, QB, WR, OT, & Lb/S hybrid prospects in the last few years. I need to watch a lot more of Thomas, but the bit I’ve seen was special. Chase is the best defensive prospect in the last 10 years, imo. Jeudy is the best WR prospect I’ve seen in quite some time, but I evaluate WRs about as well as Screech Powers evaluates outfits. Tua is as special a QB prospect as we’ve seen in several years. Okudah is the best CB prospect I’ve seen ... going back further than I can bring to mind. Then there is Simmons, who may end up being the most impactful prospect in the class. Simmons is elite in coverage & great when asked to rush, he can play nearly anything other than DT ... I wouldn’t even be hesitant to match him up outside v a WR like Alshon if injuries necessitated it... and I’d expect him to produce if my roster needed an EDGE for a week. He’s about as unique a guy as I’ve seen, he’s unbelievably explosive & can play FS, SS, any LB, slot cb, and rush ... he punishes backs that step up to block him & he makes a lot of the defensive calls for the Tigers; he’s supposed to have an incredible understanding of what the most creative DC in the country throws at him each week. I know some of Clemsons opponents have called him the brightest defensive player they’ve had to go up against.
 

It’s tougher to scheme v Simmons than any DE in today’s nfl. I believe Mack went about 7 weeks without a sack? Something like that. The freaks off the edge aren’t as disruptive to the game as they once were, but Chase is still the guy I’m taking because you can’t simulate fear & he will put it in every QBs head all game long. Trevor Lawrence wouldn’t drop back at all v OSU, he was crawling *up his centers arse every time he needed to attempt a pass & Clemson looked like Navy because of it... well, he & the unbelievable job Okudah did all night on the big WRs from Clemson.

 

 

The worry I would have with Simmons is that we wouldn't use him correctly. A guy like that can be a hugely disruptive force if you use him in creative ways and move him around ala Derwin James, but if you just stick him at WILL or S and say "these are your gap/coverage responsibilities. play them strictly" then you're really limiting the impact he could potentially have. He'd still have an impact since he's such a gifted player, but it wouldn't be nearly as much IMO as if he were moved around plenty and allowed to freelance a bit. So for a hybrid dude like that you need a creative and open minded DC, whereas with Chase or Okudah you can mostly plug and play. "Go get the QB" or "Make sure their best WR doesn't get the ball" is pretty straightforward (obviously I'm oversimplifying for dramatic purposes there, but you get the gist). 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Going Commando]

What do we make of Morgan Moses?  He got a 65.2 from PFF this season, which is a little above average, better than he got last season, and almost as good as his 2017 grade.

 

But I also suspect that grade was majorly bolstered by some late season dominant performances in the run game, like when he got an 84.2 grade in Week 12 in the win against the Lions.

 

I think great OL coaching has papered over a lack of talent on the OL for a few years.  If Scherff walks and the cycle with Trent continues, we're out our only two truly excellent linemen and the bottom will probably fall out on the line.  If they both stay and play, then it could actually be a pretty good group even without reinforcements.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What do we make of Morgan Moses?  He got a 65.2 from PFF this season, which is a little above average, better than he got last season, and almost as good as his 2017 grade.

 

But I also suspect that grade was majorly bolstered by some late season dominant performances in the run game, like when he got an 84.2 grade in Week 12 in the win against the Lions.

 

I think great OL coaching has papered over a lack of talent on the OL for a few years.  If Scherff walks and the cycle with Trent continues, we're out our only two truly excellent linemen and the bottom will probably fall out on the line.  If they both stay and play, then it could actually be a pretty good group even without reinforcements.

 

I usually after the season watch back the games with coaches tape so some time that changes my opinion.  But when I zone in on him, he seems like mostly an average RT.  He looks strong but doesn't seem to have quick feet or come off of his stance fast hence he's had his issue with false starts in his career I gather in his attempt to offset it.  When I've paid attention, it seemed like over the years it was often Trent on the left side of Scherff on the right side that have been the ones leading runs on the 2nd level.  

 

In fact part of my paranoia about the Giants landing Chase Young is to me he represented a nightmare matchup for Moses.  Moses versus a dude with an amazing first step? That would lead to bad things.  I'd be OK with replacing him.    I noticed some draft geeks like J. Willis as a LT and I gather he can play there but I like him better where Alabama plays him at RT.  You put someone like him and Scherff side to side, then you got quite a duel to maul for a run game.   

 

I think we likely have to live with Moses because the team arguably has more pressing needs.  But if they traded down even if Trent comes back I wouldn't be opposed to getting someone to play on the right side and can one day transition to the left like the Eagles did years ago drafting L. Johnson.  But I doubt they do it. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Moses in the rankings of tackles as to PFF.  Bulaga if he hits Fa would be an upgrade.

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What do we make of Morgan Moses?  He got a 65.2 from PFF this season, which is a little above average, better than he got last season, and almost as good as his 2017 grade.

 

But I also suspect that grade was majorly bolstered by some late season dominant performances in the run game, like when he got an 84.2 grade in Week 12 in the win against the Lions.

 

I think great OL coaching has papered over a lack of talent on the OL for a few years.  If Scherff walks and the cycle with Trent continues, we're out our only two truly excellent linemen and the bottom will probably fall out on the line.  If they both stay and play, then it could actually be a pretty good group even without reinforcements.

 

Moses seems like a strictly average player and even though he doesn't miss a lot of time with injuries, it seems like he's always nursing injuries. I wish we had kept Ty Nsekhe. I'd be all about upgrading at RT. What is the consensus on Jack Conklin or Darryl Williams vs using the draft in 2020/2021? Williams has that Panthers connection and was good in 2017 before suffering an MCL injury in 2018 and having surgery for a dislocated patella in 2019. Neither of those injuries should have long term implications and Williams could be relatively cheap. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The worry I would have with Simmons is that we wouldn't use him correctly. A guy like that can be a hugely disruptive force if you use him in creative ways and move him around ala Derwin James, but if you just stick him at WILL or S and say "these are your gap/coverage responsibilities. play them strictly" then you're really limiting the impact he could potentially have. He'd still have an impact since he's such a gifted player, but it wouldn't be nearly as much IMO as if he were moved around plenty and allowed to freelance a bit. So for a hybrid dude like that you need a creative and open minded DC, whereas with Chase or Okudah you can mostly plug and play. "Go get the QB" or "Make sure their best WR doesn't get the ball" is pretty straightforward (obviously I'm oversimplifying for dramatic purposes there, but you get the gist). 

 

 I don't get as jazzed about Simmons as i do about Young but I do think he's great.  I agree with @volsmet that Simmons is better than Derwin and that's saying a lot.  I made a similar point weeks back about Simmons > James.  And like volsmet I loved Derwin James.  So I totally dig a player like this with this type of profile.

 

I think Simmons is a bigger-faster player than James and a better coverage guy than him.  Like James he can be a force as a pass rusher.  Play nickel-dime LB.  Safety.  Slot corner.  And heck even some OLB.  So he's the ultimate swiss army knife.  I'd love to have him.  

 

the more I digest the draft if its not Young, Simmons is who I'd want.  But to me there something even more special to have a pass rusher that creates almost constant pressure and changes offensive game plans.  You can't double team everyone on this D line.  Someone is going to eat.   Kerrigan doesn't bring double teams that often.  It's usually one of our DT's that seems to be doubled.   Bringing Young IMO would make this team the closest replica of the Giants D lines from their Superbowl days.   You'd have 3 bonafide pass rushers.  3 bonafide DTs.  Heck, arguably you'd have 4 good pass rushers (Anderson) and 4 DTs  (Settle).

 

I was watching the Alabama defense closely at the Citrus bowl, and one of the cool things about watching it live is you can see the substitutions easier.  And Saban subbed that D line a lot to keep them fresh.  I am a big believer in that.  So adding a killer pass rusher to what we already have, I think will make that d line special.  Right now it's a talented D line but not special IMO.  

[TheMalcolmConnection]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moses in the rankings of tackles as to PFF.  Bulaga if he hits Fa would be an upgrade.

 

 

 

 

Collins as a "free" first round pick for Dallas STILL chaps the hell out of my ass.

[KDawg]

I've made it painfully clear that Simmons is my guy. Moreso than Young. 

 

But I think I've also made it clear that I don't know how you pass on Chase Young at #2 if he's there. He has absolute game changing ability.

 

I am hoping Cincy does something stupid at #1

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I've made it painfully clear that Simmons is my guy. Moreso than Young. 

 

But I think I've also made it clear that I don't know how you pass on Chase Young at #2 if he's there. He has absolute game changing ability.

 

I am hoping Cincy does something stupid at #1

 

If that happened, with our luck we'd trade down to 5, Chase would go #1 overall, and then Simmons and Okudah would go 3 and 4. Obviously there would still be some nice talent there but my top 3 would be gone: #1 Chase, #2 Simmons, #3 Okudah. That would blow. That being said, I see almost no way that Cincy passes on Burrow. They're in dire need of a QB and he's having a legendary season. The only thing that would give me any pause about Burrow would be him pretty much being a 1 year wonder. But when I watch him play I see almost zero chance that it's any sort of fluke. He's just too good, too polished, and too in command for it to be that way. I think he's going to be a hell of an NFL QB.

[KDawg]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

If that happened, with our luck we'd trade down to 5, Chase would go #1 overall, and then Simmons and Okudah would go 3 and 4. Obviously there would still be some nice talent there but my top 3 would be gone: #1 Chase, #2 Simmons, #3 Okudah. That would blow. That being said, I see almost no way that Cincy passes on Burrow. They're in dire need of a QB and he's having a legendary season. The only thing that would give me any pause about Burrow would be him pretty much being a 1 year wonder. But when I watch him play I see almost zero chance that it's any sort of fluke. He's just too good, too polished, and too in command for it to be that way. I think he's going to be a hell of an NFL QB.

 

All of this.

 

Which is why I say "something stupid".

 

I don't see it happening. But where there is the Bengals, there is a way.

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, TheMalcolmConnection said:

 

Collins as a "free" first round pick for Dallas STILL chaps the hell out of my ass.

Watch rule 14

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I've made it painfully clear that Simmons is my guy. Moreso than Young. 

 

But I think I've also made it clear that I don't know how you pass on Chase Young at #2 if he's there. He has absolute game changing ability.

 

I am hoping Cincy does something stupid at #1

I'm with ya, but this is the only time I'll admit to it. 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

I'd be incredibly surprised if there's any team that doesn't love Chase as a prospect. It's kind of a no-brainer. That would be sort of like a team being asked about Calvin Johnson as a WR prospect in 2007 and going "meh". 

[HTTRDynasty]

Few topics brought up on this page are addressed in that Tony Pauline mailbag: 

 

Since Isaiah Simmons plays both safety and linebacker, could he fall in the draft given he doesn’t have a true position?

 

No. The league has put a high value on smallish but explosive run and chase linebackers in the draft, and Simmons’ versatility is part of his appeal. The concerns center around his instincts, which is why he could slip.

 

Tony, do you have any insight into if new head coach Ron Rivera is comfortable with Dwayne Haskins? What about the New York Giants now that they have hired Joe Judge? Any chance they pull a Kliff Kingsbury?

 

I’m told two things about Rivera and the Redskins front office the way it is presently assembled: 1) they like Haskins; and 2) they love the Predator, Chase Young.

 

I think there is no way and no reason for the Giants to consider moving away from Daniel Jones.

 

 

Would the Miami Dolphins be willing to get into a bidding war, and win the bidding war, for Tua Tagovailoa? Are the Dolphins (mostly Stephen Ross) really as crazy about Tua as Rich Eisen has previously stated, enough so to trade up to number three in an effort to guarantee Tagovailoa?

 

Miami likes Tagovailoa, but it’s still early in the process to be going out on any limb. They’ve never met with him to have a serious one-on-one interview, and they’ve not yet examined him.

 

 

Looking at how the draft order has shaken out, is Detroit the main sweet spot in a trade-up scenario?

 

There are several including the Lions at three, the Giants at four, the Chargers at six, and Jaguars at nine.

 

 

What would it take for Joe Burrow to not become the first overall pick?

 

The Brown family falling in love with Chase Young.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-pauline-mailbag-which-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-do-redskins-love/

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Moses seems like a strictly average player and even though he doesn't miss a lot of time with injuries, it seems like he's always nursing injuries. I wish we had kept Ty Nsekhe. I'd be all about upgrading at RT. What is the consensus on Jack Conklin or Darryl Williams vs using the draft in 2020/2021? Williams has that Panthers connection and was good in 2017 before suffering an MCL injury in 2018 and having surgery for a dislocated patella in 2019. Neither of those injuries should have long term implications and Williams could be relatively cheap.  

 

I defer to your take on Williams.  If he's healthy, I like the idea of him on a bargain contract a lot.  He was really good in 2017 and I like his versatility as a player.  I think he'd have the potential to be a huge upgrade over Flowers or Moses. 

 

I think Conklin is, without question, a better player than Moses as a RT.  I think the Titans made a mistake in declining his fifth year option and that they got burned by him returning to his pre-injury form in a contract year.  If we can spend some money on him, steal Daryl Williams, and retain Scherff, then we could see a huge turnaround in the OL next season.  A lot of injury risk guys in the mix, but a lot of upside.  We save about five million from cutting Moses, we could make that move to help pay for Scherff and/or Conklin.  Or we could keep him and try Conklin at LT, although this would not be my preferred option.

 

The other question would be about Trent.  I really want us to resolve his situation this offseason.  I also wouldn't mind finding a stop gap option to get to next year's draft class, where I really love the draft eligible underclassmen.  Some kind of mixture of a vet and Geron Christian might get us through the year.

[skinny21]

36 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

If that happened, with our luck we'd trade down to 5, Chase would go #1 overall, and then Simmons and Okudah would go 3 and 4. Obviously there would still be some nice talent there but my top 3 would be gone: #1 Chase, #2 Simmons, #3 Okudah. That would blow. That being said, I see almost no way that Cincy passes on Burrow. They're in dire need of a QB and he's having a legendary season. The only thing that would give me any pause about Burrow would be him pretty much being a 1 year wonder. But when I watch him play I see almost zero chance that it's any sort of fluke. He's just too good, too polished, and too in command for it to be that way. I think he's going to be a hell of an NFL QB.

Yeah, short of a big time trade of picks, the lowest I am willing to drop is to 3.  Detroit takes Young, we get Simmons and, I don’t know... Detroit’s 2nd?  2nd and mid rounder?  Future 1st?   Something fairly substantial.  
I’m not convinced Del Rio would utilize Simmons correctly, but if he did, that’s a such a great piece to add to this D, IMO.  

[50yrSKINSfan]

Do you guys really think Haskins is just as good as Tua or Barrow? If Tua was not a health risk he would be first guy drafted. Haskins was not supposed to be close to that. 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Moses in the rankings of tackles as to PFF.  Bulaga if he hits Fa would be an upgrade.

 

Who would have thought, given the really impressive OLine legacies of schools like Iowa, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, USC, and Ohio State, that little old Colorado is the one with the best pair of tackle alums active in the NFL.

 

Man that list really hammers home our substandard quality on the offensive line.  We're old and bad and fairly expensive, and perhaps about to get even more expensive if we keep Scherff.  We have spent a lot of capital on the group without getting good enough results.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Do you guys really think Haskins is just as good as Tua or Barrow? If Tua was not a health risk he would be first guy drafted. Haskins was not supposed to be close to that. 

 

Even without Tua's injury I think there would be a substantial chance of Cincy taking Burrow #1 anyway. He's been absolutely unstoppable this season, and has played very well against some top defenses. Plus even before this last injury Tua had some durability/injury concerns. I'd be very conflicted if I had to choose between Burrow and a healthy Tua.

 

[Chump Bailey]

Germain Ifedi is a free agent. I know he is a penalty machine in Seattle but I really liked him coming out. Perhaps a change of scenery would help, as was the case with Flowers. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Who are the good press-man CB’s in the draft?

 

I have a feeling teams are going to 3-step drop the hell out of us for the foreseeable future if we take Young. 

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Even without Tua's injury I think there would be a substantial chance of Cincy taking Burrow #1 anyway. He's been absolutely unstoppable this season, and has played very well against some top defenses. Plus even before this last injury Tua had some durability/injury concerns. I'd be very conflicted if I had to choose between Burrow and a healthy Tua.

 

Plus Burrow is the local Ohio kid. That goes a long way to some of these owners. 

[Anselmheifer]

17 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The other question would be about Trent.  I really want us to resolve his situation this offseason.  I also wouldn't mind finding a stop gap option to get to next year's draft class, where I really love the draft eligible underclassmen.  Some kind of mixture of a vet and Geron Christian might get us through the year.

 

I think that the tea leaves are there to be read with Trent. All signs are pointing to him coming back. If we didn't have Haskins, I'd say we would be better off trading Trent for draft assets next year. I'd much rather have a 2021 1st than a 2020 2nd in this case. We could then consolidate those picks and move up for a high caliber LT, or we could just draft two 1sts. That being said, we do have Haskins. I think if he winds up being good, so will we, and if not, we won't be good until we can find that guy. I don't want to waste 5 years of Chase Young and this DL because we have no QB. I'd probably resign Trent and upgrade WR and TE and RT and maybe franchise Scherff and draft more interior OL. Plan for all of those signings to come off the books within a 3 year period when we will need to start re-upping the DL, McLaurin and Haskins and they can be replaced by draft picks.