Welcome to the Redskins Kelvin Harmon WR North Carolina State

[volsmet]

33 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. Harmon may or may make the 53, but for as much as he is hyped, we're still talking about a guy picked in the supplemental picks of the 6th round (206th overall).  Its clear the league doesn't value Harmon as high as many draft "experts". Or else the entire league wouldn't pass on him en masse 6+ times. I hope Harmon does well and succeeds, but most 6th rounders do not.

 

The Vikings have two pro bowl WRs nobody wanted all that badly. WRs are a tough evaluation, imo. Miami’s best rookie, so far, is an udfa wr.... and the same has been true in NE...while a similar story plays out in AZ. 

[Jericho]

8 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

The Vikings have two pro bowl WRs nobody wanted all that badly. WRs are a tough evaluation, imo. Miami’s best rookie, so far, is an udfa wr.... and the same has been true in NE...while a similar story plays out in AZ. 

 

I think you missed my point. Yes, it's possible for low rated WRs to succeed. I agree with the statement. But people act like Harmon would be grabbed by another team if cut. I'm saying his perceived value, particularly around here, and his actual value (evidenced by the fact he didn't get draft til the very end of the 6th round) are significantly different. And unlike the pre-season hype stories in Miami and New England that you mentioned (many of which never pan out into actual production), Harmon is not getting those same stories. If you removed the name and said the team cut a late 6th round WR, it wouldn't seem that unusual. In fact, the team did this very same thing two years ago. Robert Davis (drafted 209th overall) was cut his rookie year. He was not claimed and went to the practice squad. Harmon was drafted 206th overall. It wouldn't be unusual to cut such a player.

 

I'm not advocating that the Redskins cut him. Nor can I guarantee that no team claims him. But Harmon is hardly untouchable, and many players selected that late get cut. It happens. Doesn't mean the player isn't good or can't develop. But you mentioned Adam Thielen, and he was cut his rookie year. Danny Amendola was cut a few times. They still developed. If Harmon isn't better than the players in front of him (which, again, I'm not saying as fact but merely speculating given his current situation), then its quite possible he doesn't make the 53. And it wouldn't be that weird.

[RandyHolt]

He'll NEVER make it to the practice squad!!!1!  

 

So he is slow heh. That is why contested catch rates are key. 

 

Even the fastest WRs have to deal with tight coverage.  Speed does not equal success of course but it's an easy measurable for scouts to focus on.

 

I don't see Bowe. I see Anquan Boldin dammit. 

 

It may come down to all the little things. Crisp routes trusted to be in his spot.  Blocking. Special Teams. That is what will get him onto our 53, not speed.

[Jericho]

9 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

He'll NEVER make it to the practice squad!!!1!  

 

 

People say that every year and 95% of the time they are wrong. No one really knows for sure, but admittedly it only takes one to claim. I hope Harmon does develop and doesn't make this an issue. I have no idea if the team is even considering waiving him. But I would like to see him get into games before Josh Woodrum or should I say the the new Josh Woodrum, Jalan McClendon, takes the field. Cause that's a tough ask of any WR to succeed with the bottom rung QB. Maybe Harmon will play well and just make the whole thing moot.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Going Commando]

This kid is our toughest and most aggressive WR and he's got the instincts of a stud.  He can't separate vertically for crap, but he'll lay out for the an underthrow with a DBs helmet in his nuts.  That was a DeAndre Hopkins-esque play.  SMH that those moron refs punished him for it.

 

There is no real future with jags like Brian Quick and Paul Richardson and Cam Sims.  Not overly impressed by Robert Davis either.  And Doctson just doesn't have the toughness or aggressiveness to be a stud.  I would rather see Harmon make the 53 man roster over any of them.  It could be nothing, but I want us to see what we've got with him.  And I know we like Quinn, but Harmon has the potential to be a better big slot than him IMO.  I really hope we give Harmon a chance.

[RandyHolt]

Getting sucked in....

 

That review OPI call may go down as the new standard in NFL officiating futility.  I like the ability for a coach to review 1 penalty a game but they are going to be exposing how inept the refs are even more. 

 

Poor Mike Quick  who I always talk about somehow making the roster since he is always on it, had a big fat drop in his first target.  Simple drops push the others up the depth chart.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This kid is our toughest and most aggressive WR and he's got the instincts of a stud.  

 

All camp, he's been making acrobatic catches.  I commented on it when I was there, too.    I like Doctson better than most but Harmon seems to play much tougher with contested balls and attitude in the open field.  He is a tough runner who does YAC, too if college is a guide.  Plays with a feistiness in that way that reminds me of Garcon.

 

 

 

 

 

[moondog]

This kid has the makings of a stud. Also, if they’re going to call that OPI this year it’s going to be a ****ty year for football. Neither of those were OPI they were both incredible plays. Hell, the first one the defender never turned around to see the ball which used to be grounds for DPI as he impeded Harmon’s ability to make a play on the ball. 

 

I hope the NFL gets this right and uses those two plays to educate refs but who am I kidding we’ll probably see more awful calls this year than any other. 

 

Regardless, I hope they start bumping Harmon on the depth chart because he deserves it. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Plays with a feistiness in that way that reminds me of Garcon.

 

One thing Garcon had over him early in his career was the ability to separate vertically.  But Harmon is bigger and more acrobatic.  Pierre got a little too bulky and stiff as he aged and was never the kind of guy to jump over anybody to make a catch.  Deebo Samuel is the guy who really reminded me of Garcon.  Although I think he is more talented and elusive than Garcon was.

 

Harmon is well built and carries his size very naturally and he has legit body control and catch radius.  And what he describes in that combine video is the DeAndre Hopkins mentality.  It can't be taught.  And it's why I think he has a chance to be very good.  He's not going to be burning people up and I don't love his potential as a starting X receiver, especially against a tall press corner.  Just not sure if he has the quickness to get his release on time.  But I think he could be an absolute animal in the slot, and I think he's someone that can win with physicality as a Z.  And I think his ability to fight for the ball and come down with it outside the numbers overlaps very well with Haskins's skillset. 

 

He's got an aggressive, active #1 receiver mentality where he will break off routes to get into seams and make sure he's a target and he'll work underneath and over the middle.  But I don't get the sense that he'll freelance and play too far outside the designs and run lazy routes.  He's just got the right toughness and instincts for the position.

 

Between Harmon, Bryce Love, and Derrius Guice, I think we have three young skill position prospects with workhorse stud potential.  And I think we've got a special young quarterback.  And In McLaurin, I see a very good role player whose team-first game makes the guys around him better.  If these guys pan out, we'll have the foundation for a good offense.  But we also need a lot of luck given the injury histories of Love and Guice, as well as a very large transfusion of offensive line talent.

[Llevron]

The second one (that he caught, somehow) was actually OPI all things being equal. He pulled the defender off his spot by pulling his jersey. Though it was minor. 

 

What Im worried about more than anything is the other refs getting it in their head that they have to "watch this guy". Cause they do that alot. They find a guy to pick on based off of games or film they watch and extra scrutinize those players. They did that to one of our DBs with hands to the face calls or something similar just a few years back. Dude had back to back games of the same call for the same **** everyone else does in the NFL but hes was the target. **** happens all the time. The NFL is funny like that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

One thing Garcon had over him early in his career was the ability to separate vertically.  But Harmon is bigger and more acrobatic.  Pierre got a little too bulky and stiff as he aged and was never the kind of guy to jump over anybody to make a catch.  Deebo Samuel is the guy who really reminded me of Garcon.  Although I think he is more talented and elusive than Garcon was.

 

 

The Garcon part on my end is his feistiness with the ball in his hands and just his general demeanor. Agree with the Deebo comparison to Garcon as to the whole picture.   I show one of the YAC plays below, he's a tough dude at times to tackle in the open field.  On that front, I do like N. Harry better in the open field but Harmon had his moments, too.

 

If I recall he was the 2nd to last player I looked at on the draft thread in detail.  My hesitation to watch him was his 4.6 speed.  I had the image in my head that he was purely a contested catch guy who was a bit stiff.  But I was surprised to see he had more in his arsenal including that he was a deep threat at times even though Finley's deep ball isn't that hot.   He had almost a 15 YPR so he was making some big plays.  His highlight plays were often the contested catches but he got open at times, too with some decent separation.

 

I watched him practice some in person including his post camp practices against Norman, and he was practicing double moves and just generally working on change of direction shiftiness to get open.  And at times he looked good doing so.  As Norman said he constantly picks his brain and has a strong desire to be great.    Agree his #1 attribute is his body control-hands.  I commented on it back in camp.  That is, he's not just a high point the ball guy but is really nimble with his body and can change direction on a dime including going back to grab a ball just like what we saw last night.  I mentioned then Haskins under throwing a fade ball, Harmon's body shifted from going back to going forward and had to scoop the ball before hitting the ground. It was different throw but that catch had a similar flavor to the one from last night.   

 

I had a good view of the red zone throws because I was watching practice from that perspective and that Harmon catch was the best one I saw in the 5 practices i watched.  He made others, too.  It was actually one of the things that I openly pondered about after watching camp -- why not much buzz about Harmon -- considering from what I saw he looked good.  And he was the one dude working on his craft after practice when the others went back to their locker rooms. 

 

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

What was up with the P.I call last night. The whole purpose of being able to challenge a P.I. Is for when refs (who are human and make mistakes) don't have a proper angle on the live play and make/miss a call. But for them to review that and be too stubborn to over turn it, disgusting.

 

  This better not be a recurring theme this season where Refs have to much foolish pride to overturn blown or missed calls, Its only going to piss off fans coaches and players even more if they can't be ethical  & have integrity with their reviews. Might as well go back to the old way.

 

  Goodell is too busy rubbing elbows with Jay Z to look into the ****ty officiating that seems to get worse every year.

 

NFL's off the field Image > On field officiating 🤔 

[bowhunter]

23 hours ago, moondog said:

 Also, if they’re going to call that OPI this year it’s going to be a ****ty year for football. Neither of those were OPI they were both incredible plays

 

Earlier during the TV broadcast, when a more obvious OPI went uncalled, Theismann jokingly commented that he didn't think OPI was still in the rulebook. Reckon they proved him wrong.

[drowland]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:38 AM, RandyHolt said:

Getting sucked in....

 

That review OPI call may go down as the new standard in NFL officiating futility.  I like the ability for a coach to review 1 penalty a game but they are going to be exposing how inept the refs are even more. 

 

Poor Mike Quick  who I always talk about somehow making the roster since he is always on it, had a big fat drop in his first target.  Simple drops push the others up the depth chart.

 

 

 

I heard Mike Florio address this on radio and the officials claimed the OPI happened earlier in the route where Harmon pushed off.  The camera's didn't capture that part, but still weird that the flag came out so late if the push-off happened earlier.  But it leads to another issue with challenging PI calls.   PI can happen away from the play or well before the ball gets there.  Regular season games should have more camera's on the field but makes you wonder if the NFL took that into consideration.  If anything the refs need to explain things better on these calls.  

[sportjunkie07]

On 8/17/2019 at 12:30 PM, drowland said:

 

I heard Mike Florio address this on radio and the officials claimed the OPI happened earlier in the route where Harmon pushed off.  The camera's didn't capture that part, but still weird that the flag came out so late if the push-off happened earlier.  But it leads to another issue with challenging PI calls.   PI can happen away from the play or well before the ball gets there.  Regular season games should have more camera's on the field but makes you wonder if the NFL took that into consideration.  If anything the refs need to explain things better on these calls.  

I was thinking that could be the only reason as to why it was an OPI. It is a reach 100% because that is not why they threw the flag but just a reason to validate their own misjudgment of a play call.

 

Refs get a chance now to go back and review the entire play for wrongdoings. It is a really stupid idea. The same thing happened with the other OPI. 

 

Can't wait till we challenge a crucial incompleted pass that would have put us in field goal range to win the game. And oh look, on review, it actually was a catch. But wait, see #75 in the corner of the screen? He might be holding that edge rusher. Hard to say... OK, well let's call offensive holding and a 10 sec runoff which ends the game. 

 

Fun. 

[Rex Tomb]

18 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

I was thinking that could be the only reason as to why it was an OPI. It is a reach 100% because that is not why they threw the flag but just a reason to validate their own misjudgment of a play call.

 

Refs get a chance now to go back and review the entire play for wrongdoings. It is a really stupid idea. The same thing happened with the other OPI. 

 

Can't wait till we challenge a crucial incompleted pass that would have put us in field goal range to win the game. And oh look, on review, it actually was a catch. But wait, see #75 in the corner of the screen? He might be holding that edge rusher. Hard to say... OK, well let's call offensive holding and a ten 10 runoff which ends the game. 

 

Fun. 

I have a feeling this is going to be a massive disaster and will be scrapped before the end of the season.  It just puts the referees in way too much control of the outcome of games.  Honestly, this could be a real issue in terms of refs having money on those outcomes. Or at least the appearance of it.

 

[RandyHolt]

All this because of that one non call.

 

In critical games in critical situations, I feel like refs should just on the fly have official time outs and get the ****ing call right. Instead of having to deal with that crap all season long.

 

@drowlandyep camera angles are key.  How many decades did it take before the league FINALLY figured out to put a camera along the goal line?  IIRC they started on the first down marker, too, but are always just slightly off angle enough to still make it a judgement call.

 

I love the spotting of the ball review. The league often just says FU we aren't moving it. Five minutes later.

[Malapropismic Depository]

50 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I heard Mike Florio address this on radio and the officials claimed the OPI happened earlier in the route where Harmon pushed off.  The camera's didn't capture that part, but still weird that the flag came out so late if the push-off happened earlier. 

 

 

This one shows the non-TV broadcast with the supposed "earlier pushoff" that they are referring to.

Judge for yourself.

 

 

[PartyPosse]

With so many teams needing WR there is no way Harmon makes it to the PS. I can personally guarantee that at least one team would nab him in a heartbeat - The Giants. 4th game into the season which means Golden Tate still isn't eligible to play. 

[Commander Wolffe]

Well.. we keep 7 Wrs? Not likely...

[drowland]

8 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

This one shows the non-TV broadcast with the supposed "earlier pushoff" that they are referring to.

Judge for yourself.

 

 

It happens really fast, but I see Harmon's arm extended at the point he gets separation.  Not sure how the ref that threw the flag was able to see that though from the angle they were at.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

Things to look for in Atlanta :

Harmon catching an underthrown ball, without the refs calling OPI.

[RandyHolt]

I will be looking for Doctson struggling vs tight man. I feel like he and Harmon are cut from the same mold and may even be competing against one another... some day.

[NeverSurrender]

On 8/17/2019 at 2:30 PM, drowland said:

 

It happens really fast, but I see Harmon's arm extended at the point he gets separation.  Not sure how the ref that threw the flag was able to see that though from the angle they were at.  

The defender appeared to initiate that contact though(Handfighting).  I think they made that BS up because they STILL should have flagged the defender for interference(Not turning his head). on the later OPI call on Harmon (which was legit) they did not call a penalty until AFTER the review.  Which means they looked at the play and determined a foul has been committed.  This shows that they did NOT apply that logic to the previous play.  Its preseason I understand that none of this matters but what is so troubling is that they cant even apply the same logic to keep calls consistent.  Thats why it seems they are one sided.