Morneblade Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 15 hours ago, skinsfan35yrs. said: Umm yeah but he was paid for the numbers he had at K.C. Umm yeah but he was paid for the numbers he had at K.C. No, we paid for the one good year, not the 4 average years before it. FO was stupid, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Morneblade said: No, we paid for the one good year, not the 4 average years before it. FO was stupid, as usual. Overpaid, no doubt. The whole QB market outside of the elite are overpaid. I think the bubble popped with average guys getting elite money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said: I expect us to come back down to earth this Sunday. 2 hours ago, Chew said: Same I expect us to come back down to earth this Sunday too. I mean, after beating the Titans on Saturday, and being on a super high from that, the feeling can't last forever. So by Sunday, we'll get serious about beating Philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, wit33 said: Overpaid, no doubt. The whole QB market outside of the elite are overpaid. I think the bubble popped with average guys getting elite money. Holy ****. We actually agree on something? *Checks to see if the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are coming down the street. Nothing? Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said: I expect us to come back down to earth this Sunday. Nevertheless, it's hard not to like Johnson and I hope he proves me wrong. They can come back to earth on Sunday just as long they play way above themselves and defy all odds on Saturday Edit- damn..someone beat me to the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 The Titans don't give up points? Buuurfect That plays right into our game plan of a low scoring coin flip affair. Its December, scoring is down. Oh and **** their defense. I suspect they cough like us slow play on offense which kills scoring and makes defenses look better than they are. Josh and all QBs carry a lot of the load but our defense has to do its part. I may actually take the under. Josh just needs to bail from the pocket after the 1st and 2nd read are jammed, as per usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain James Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Chew said: Same Titans quietly have one of the best defenses in the NFL. #1 in points allowed, 7th overall. Yikes. Well that's ok, because we don't score that many points anyway. We just have to stop them from scoring and we win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, wit33 said: Overpaid, no doubt. The whole QB market outside of the elite are overpaid. I would like to know what the second-best bid for Alex Smith was. Both in terms of pick/player traded away, and amount of effectively guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 **** it. Now we've screwed draft position with that win last week, i want to see us ball out and josh johnson lead us into the playoffs. I was hoping we'd lose the last 3 and get a half decent draft pick but seeing as we've won one, i want to see us be the worst team to ever make the playoffs. I dont care if Colt is good to go week 17, or that we're likely to get royally embarrassed in the playoffs... if JJ can sneak us into the playoffs then he deserves to start in them... Josh is my dude for the season now - ride or die. The Josh Jamboree aint even started yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 hours ago, wit33 said: A poor mans Alex Smith might just be the equation to capture a playoff birth. Let’s get it Josh. So, we are joking around about that, but this team is now 7-4 when that type of QB starts and 0-3 when a gunslinger-type starts. It could just be that a few first downs and field position play to our overall team and defense better than a couple turnovers (even if those come with an extra score). I'm seeing reports that, if we win and Colt is healthy, McCoy might start the Eagles game. i understand the temptation (especially if we win a game like we did this past Sunday) because McCoy has shown an ability to move the ball more than anyone of the other 16 QBs that have played for us this year. But, I wouldn't be so quick to turn my nose up at the trend here... Our 2018 formula has been to control the ball, limit mistakes, and make the other team go 85 yards per drive. When we've done that, we win about 2 of every 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Chew said: Same Titans quietly have one of the best defenses in the NFL. #1 in points allowed, 7th overall. Yikes. Didnt we just beat the 6th best defense? Sure i heard the commentators say that several times on sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: So, we are joking around about that, but this team is now 7-4 when that type of QB starts and 0-3 when a gunslinger-type starts. It could just be that a few first downs and field position play to our overall team and defense better than a couple turnovers (even if those come with an extra score). I'm seeing reports that, if we win and Colt is healthy, McCoy might start the Eagles game. i understand the temptation (especially if we win a game like we did this past Sunday) because McCoy has shown an ability to move the ball more than anyone of the other 16 QBs that have played for us this year. But, I wouldn't be so quick to turn my nose up at the trend here... Our 2018 formula has been to control the ball, limit mistakes, and make the other team go 85 yards per drive. When we've done that, we win about 2 of every 3 games. Ya, I don’t think it was a great formula by any means, but value exists in having a known identity (though Gruden fought it every step of the way lol). The formula wasn’t going to provide a great opportunity to beat the better teams in the league, but separating from the middling teams was certainly likely to happen. Play to the odds. I think Smith lives by this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If Josh comes out and plays good against the Tight-ones, Gruden would be a fool to put Colt in if he's healthy. You ride the hot hand; that is, if Josh's hands/feet do get hot. Gruden needs to let him play; no hamstringing him with screen after screen after screen; let him chunk it downfield, just tell the WRs/TEs if the ball is coming their way they damn sure better make their best effort to catch it. That's part of the problem with this receiving bunch; they want to be 5 yds away from a defender and no safety coming up while they're standing flat-footed like playing catch; the good WRs in the league believe that ball in the air is theirs and they give it their best to get it, but not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpig Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Morneblade said: Holy ****. We actually agree on something? *Checks to see if the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are coming down the street. Nothing? Cool. You guys better start fighting again! Right now! Book a hell in a cell match quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, mudpig said: You guys better start fighting again! Right now! Book a hell in a cell match quick! That last option seems a bit harsh to me. I say they should go by your screen name, and settle their differences by mud wrestling, with a live stream on ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, skins island connection said: If Josh comes out and plays good against the Tight-ones, Gruden would be a fool to put Colt in if he's healthy. You ride the hot hand; that is, if Josh's hands/feet do get hot. 2 True, I agree...but Josh really wasn't that good against the Jags. It wouldn't surprise me if the film study showed him missing a helluva lot of opportunities. Plus he seemed pretty damn inaccurate on any throws more than 10 yards (outside of the pass to Davis). His mobility is what gives him an edge that helps the offense overall, plus he was definitely better than Sanchez, who seemed rattled easily and lost his composure a number of times against the Giants. But if Colt is healthy enough to start and Johnson plays no better than he did against the Jags, I could understand why Gruden could be thinking Colt would give the team a better chance than Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, skins island connection said: If Josh comes out and plays good against the Tight-ones, Gruden would be a fool to put Colt in if he's healthy. You ride the hot hand; that is, if Josh's hands/feet do get hot. 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: True, I agree...but Josh really wasn't that good against the Jags. I think if he continues to be more like Alex Smith, a good game manager and doesn't turn the ball over, then that's the key to deciding whether to stick with him. Because for one, this team cannot afford turnovers, such as the ones McCoy is known for. And based on our history, when our QB plays like Alex, we usually win. But when Colt is in there turning the ball over, this team has lost. The lack of offensive potency demands that we not turn the ball over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I think if he continues to be more like Alex Smith, a good game manager and doesn't turn the ball over, then that's the key to deciding whether to stick with him. Because for one, this team cannot afford turnovers, such as the ones McCoy is known for. And based on our history, when our QB plays like Alex, we usually win. But when Colt is in there turning the ball over, this team has lost. The lack of offensive potency demands that we not turn the ball over. yeah, gotta agree with the "no turnovers" part. I also have rethought the whole "Are they winning because of Alex or in spite of Alex" question lol...I definitely think he played a role in the wins. He showed true leadership--players truly believed in him--didn't make many mistakes, and managed the game decently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, UKskins said: Didnt we just beat the 6th best defense? Sure i heard the commentators say that several times on sunday? I was right! The Jags defensive stats are pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: The lack of offensive potency demands that we not turn the ball over. I think this is the operative point and I've made it before myself. If your passing offense is going to basically stink or at best be below average in the league -- adding turnovers to that mix too is a disaster. And that's part of the reason why even when Alex was struggling I was not among the ones advocating for Colt to take over the job. You take a middling QB and be turnover prone -- you got no shot with that. So when we play crap offenses like Jax or the defense causes a ton of turnovers like they did against Tampa -- all you need is a game manager who doesn't screw it up for the other unit leading the way -- like when the defense has a big game or the running game. But, if you are playing a prolific offense like the Saints or Atlanta you are screwed if your defense can't shut them down because you have no chance to be competitive in a shoot out. So IMO if our goal is to live in 8-8 purgatory NFL land -- where if we are lucky we go 9-7 or unlucky go 7-9 then a Josh Johnson perhaps or Alex Smith might keep us there -- assuming the defense keeps improving and Peterson has some killer games in the mix. But if ultimately we want to be a team that can seriously contend we need to find a QB who can actually move the ball because there are plenty of QBs in the league who can move the ball and also not throw picks -- and I am not talking just the elite guys -- its not a pipe dream, its doable. Is this FO capable enough to figure that out -- got my doubts but I'd at least try if not in this draft than the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 hours ago, wit33 said: Ya, I don’t think it was a great formula by any means, but value exists in having a known identity (though Gruden fought it every step of the way lol). The formula wasn’t going to provide a great opportunity to beat the better teams in the league, but separating from the middling teams was certainly likely to happen. Play to the odds. I think Smith lives by this lol I'm on the fence, but it is fascinating to me that we figured out ways to win with Smith (which is consistent across his entire career at 3 different stops) yet we struggled to win without him until the closest comp to him started playing. I made this case for Smith and the same can be said of Johnson... If we are shortening the game, protecting the ball, and putting our defense in good situations...we seem to have a shot. We did that more often than not with Smith and we did that last week with Johnson. On the other hand, we were boom-or-bust on Thanksgiving, scored more than we had been, and still managed to get blown out. I don't know what I'd want in week 17 if we somehow win this game 16-14 with 142 passing yards. I'd be tempted to say that I'd want an offense that COULD score 20+ in a win-and-get-in scenario. On the other hand...the results would be staring me in the face that the best option is to play our game and try to win it in ugly fashion like we have in all but two Ws we've gotten (Arizona & Green Bay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If we somehow either magically win on Saturday in ugly fashion (6-3) or we lose, but the Eagles, Vikings, and Seahawks all lose you absolutely consider starting Colt McCoy if he's healthy for the final game. Josh Johnson isn't exactly the "hot hand" at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: If we somehow either magically win on Saturday in ugly fashion (6-3) or we lose, but the Eagles, Vikings, and Seahawks all lose you absolutely consider starting Colt McCoy if he's healthy for the final game. Josh Johnson isn't exactly the "hot hand" at this point. I think that's too binary (if we win). I would agree that if we lose and are somehow still alive, there's no harm in starting Colt (because it would put a lot of doubt on the idea that playing ugly helps our chances to win). But if we win ugly, I think it would be tough to ignore the metrics here... Please understand that I'm not talking about playing the hot hand. I'm talking about sticking a formula that may help our defense play better. I don't think it's coincidence at all that the two conservative QBs are 7-4 and the two turnover-prone QBs are 0-3. But you're right...if we lose and aren't eliminated, why not go with Colt. I would say that if we lose and ARE eliminated, we should keep Colt out so nothing else happens to that leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I'm on the fence, but it is fascinating to me that we figured out ways to win with Smith (which is consistent across his entire career at 3 different stops) yet we struggled to win without him until the closest comp to him started playing. I made this case for Smith and the same can be said of Johnson... Complimentary football— it still has value in today’s game, especially this time of year. What I appreciated early on is how Smith contributes greatly to establishing an identity on offense. An identity that provides a great platform for his teammates to succeed and often reap the benefits of large amounts of praise outside the organization (fans and media). Easy to see why teammates eat this up. Smith developed a thick skin and can truly careless, which is unique and has tremendous value. Smith’s intangibles and game management are highly predictable variables in a setting (football game) of complete chaos. With this said, Smith’s ceiling isn’t of an elite QB, so to reach the pinnacle, he’ll likely need an elite defensive unit or special pieces surrounding him on offense. 21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: If we are shortening the game, protecting the ball, and putting our defense in good situations...we seem to have a shot. We did that more often than not with Smith and we did that last week with Johnson. On the other hand, we were boom-or-bust on Thanksgiving, scored more than we had been, and still managed to get blown out. I agree. No formula is 100 proof and on somedays the other team will get a fortuitous bounce, experience better health, be a step ahead schematically, or just better. But, complimentary football can assist an overall average team to being a playoff team. This appeared to be direction team was headed in before the Smith injury. 21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I don't know what I'd want in week 17 if we somehow win this game 16-14 with 142 passing yards. I'd be tempted to say that I'd want an offense that COULD score 20+ in a win-and-get-in scenario. On the other hand...the results would be staring me in the face that the best option is to play our game and try to win it in ugly fashion like we have in all but two Ws we've gotten (Arizona & Green Bay). We get one more game to see Johnson before making any decision on Colt, so that’ll be helpful lol. And obviously, they must win, which is a huge task. The next two two games have a great chance of being smash mouth type games, so value of a game manager increases, but Johnson is still unknown, even as a game manager. Managing game tomorrow effectively and leading team to a victory would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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