I'm Not Mad...

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@skinfan2k @TryTheBeal!  Discussing the C-Word in here will get this thread closedso please do it elsewhere.  This is about this team this season and he is not here this year. It doesn't matter which of you is right here, its pinned to top of the stadium now

 

Wasnt me man.  I know the rules!

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Renegade7 I admire your passion. 

 

We are 6-5.  I am not rooting for us to lose out to get rid of Jay or Bruce.  Nor am I rooting for us to lose to get a better draft position.  Once they are eliminated, I will probably hope for both, but that time is still probably 2 weeks away, at the minimum.

 

I would like nothing more than for the team to re-group, go into Philly and get a win.  That would most likely put them back on top in the NFC East race.  Dallas has to play the Saints.  They're most likely going to lose to get to 6-6, and a win over Philly get the 'Skins to 7-5, with a 3-1 division record.  Take care of business at home the next week against the Giants, that's 8-5 with a 4-1 division record. Then we're off to the races.

 

So that's the good side.

 

The reason I feel like we're always the underdog is because the organization is bringing a knife to a gun fight from the preparation, game planning and in-game management perspective every single week.

 

The roster isn't close to perfect, but I don't believe we get anywhere near out of it what it's capable of on a weekly basis.

 

However, this feels to be more the "Jay Gruden is not responsible" thread, so I'll leave my comments there.  My feelings are well known.  There's no reason to have the same Jay arguments in 3 threads.  (Evaluating Jay Gruden, Who's the next HC, and then this one).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to point out I will not have to buy you that steak dinner this year, and I doubt I ever will have to buy you that Steak Dinner.

[skinfan2k]

24 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Ah yes, the “no supporting cast” narrative.  It never gets old.

 

what supporting cast is here?  It's bottom 5 in the NFL.  If you aren't a HOF QB you need talent around you to win.  

any of our WRs wouldn't even be a 3rd on any other team. 

[Renegade7]

@Voice_of_Reason think we out a multi-year 'lets see' on that one, but not don't want this to be a Jay apology thread, either, lol.  It's a 2018 Redskins appreciation thread (all things considered)  : )

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Philly away we probably loose and the giants have won two in a row... they are getting hot with a chance to play spoiler... there is a better chance we go 0-3 than 3-0 in those divisional games imo.

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Philly away we probably loose and the giants have won two in a row... they are getting hot with a chance to play spoiler... there is a better chance we go 0-3 than 3-0 in those divisional games imo.

 

Well until that happens it hasn't happened yet.

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Well until that happens it hasn't happened yet.

Or as Yoda would say...

 

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Or as Yoda would say...

 

Yep, Khalil Gibran would say stuff like there's nothing you can do to change the past and the future will always be out of reach.  The present is where everything is hoped for, done, and realized.  

 

The redskins are an on the fence team playing a lot of on the fence teams coming up.  I just don't get considering those all loses ahead of time, we've been winning games like that all year.

 

Cringing over the past, the present, or the future are all three separate things.  2019 is coming whether we like it or not, but it's not 2019 yet, all I'm saying.

[profusion]

The perpetual winning franchises all operate as long-term systems. Meaning, there's a larger plan in place at the top, and everything flows from that. Teams like the Patriots and Steelers evolve as the game does, but they never take a "try a little of this, try a little of that" approach. Draft and free-agency prospects are chosen based on how their particular skill sets mesh with the team's philosophy and needs, and the players aren't asked to do more than their assigned role. That's how they find all those diamonds in the rough--they know what they're looking for.

 

The Redskins, by contrast, have tried just about every possible approach since Dan Snyder fired Charlie Casserly. A few years of this, a few years of that, with the result that the organization is a mess. You can't blame any single person (not even Bruce Allen) other than Dan Snyder. Dan has evolved to the point where his organization has reached mediocrity, and that's it.

 

I bleed burgundy and gold, and always will. But I'm too old to get excited about year after year of this. I'll keep watching, but I'll admit it's starting to feel like muscle memory--almost like an obligation.

[Veretax]

Even with all the injuries, all the dysfunction, I still think the odds are good that 2 of 5 are wins down the stretch, that's 8-8.... is it enough for the playoffs in the end?  May depend on whom we beat, and hat dallas does in the same stretch.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@Skinsinparadise on the defense i get where are coming from.  I'll add that I didn't think they would be top 5 unit before season started so when all the sudden it happened think it caught a lot of people of guard.  That does not excuse them feelin themselves.

 

It's tough because before the Houston game I wanted to start a thread about our pass defense, because their ranking had dropped to the low 20s, bringing our overall ranking to like 17th in the league.  Given what we did to our corner depth, you can argue we went from overacheiving to overrated to probably what we shoulda been all along in the period of about two and half months.  That Houston game showed that it still had the potential, Watson was on fire up that point and we were all over him.

 

Watching the Redskins pre-game before the Dallas game I wanted to turn it off because they were hyping McCoy too much.  I knew it was going to be bad if we lost, people that got so high might go the opposite direction on him in only 4 days.  I'm trying to avoid those swings with the defense, they can do better I hope they better, but this is about what I thought they'd be now before the season started, really good run stopping team who I can't trust to consistently stop passing games.

 

The offense was never supposed to be this badand gotten better and the defense was never supposed to be that good then fell back to earth.  Turnover battle will determine where we go from here, because that sounds like a 500 team, but not if we keep killing our drives and putting our defense in a bad spot.  We've all seen how that goes in previous seasons.

 

Brewer really hit it home with me post Tampa game and posted the article back, then.  There seems to be a culture of celebrating prematurely of having arrived.  This isn't the first rodeo of it.  Stephen Smith (granted a buffoon) has been saying for years he defines this team as one that can't handle success, can't handle the big stage when all the eyes are on them. 

 

To me this goes back years, I recall Smoot gloating about them being the beasts of the NFC East, after their 6-2 start with Zorn.  Rex saying in one of the Shanny years they are winning the division.  RJF and Baker whining about how little respect they were getting in 2016 even though they were hot at the time and the 2015 East winners -- suggesting they got the division again.  If you go through the 2016 record, they were in similar situation to this season, similar record, we were talking playoffs at a similar juncture in the season.   The bragging about the defense after the Raiders game....

 

For me, the lack of humility by some players on their roster don't make the team that lovable in the context of having their back when they start slipping.  Not saying you are saying the reverse of this.   I said this before the season, we've had moments in 2016 and 2017 too where it felt like the team arrived and the playoffs are on the way.  Heck even the infamous Giants game at the end of the 2016 season was marked by surprise comments from coaches/players about wow the Giants really played hard and were surprised their starters played the whole game.   Felt like they thought the playoffs were in the bag and didn't show up to play with an edge. 

 

I like reading that Ryan Anderson wasn't celebrating squat post the Tampa game -- that's not the Alabama culture, etc.   We need more of that IMO.

 

I understand they have hardships with two years in a row on heavy injuries.  I was one of the few people who thought it was possible that a team with injury prone players coming off of injury might have another rodeo similar to last year on that front - so I don't think I am as shocked as some about it.  I recall actually discussing this with Voice of reason who agreed with me on it.   

 

He blames a lot of the team's issues on Jay.  I don't.  But I do agree with him that if they don't turn this around this season sea changes are likely coming.  And if I am sticking on the arrogance theme, JP Finlay said the impression last off season he got from the FO is lot of confidence about how they have this really good roster which they think will win the division -- Finlay likes to characterize the off season from the FO as one marked by arrogance.

 

Arrogance to me seems a theme with this organization and in my book they need to back it up this time regardless of what excuses they have.  IMO much of the issues with this team this year stems from the QB position, the WR position, lack of depth on the O line and secondary.  And on those fronts the FO made their bed.  People here aren't personnel experts but plenty of us pointed out what we saw as mistakes on all of those fronts as it went down.

 

Having said that, I am not pessimistic about the season.  They can still win this.  But if they don't I am not giving them a pass regardless of what excuses they have.  There always seems to be an excuse and some of them are warranted but eventually you have to produce.  Most of this vent is directed at Bruce/Dan and the need of more leadership type players on that roster.  I am mostly ok with the coaching staff.     

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-players-and-fans-can-agree-on-this-this-time-build-something-that-lasts/2018/11/16/360b6d7c-e9ce-11e8-bbdb-72fdbf9d4fed_story.html?utm_term=.ca4528834563

Norman had a legitimate point, but he made some on the team and in the organization cringe. It wasn’t just because, after factoring in all that these fans have been through the past two decades, their patience, loyalty and passion should be considered bulletproof. In expressing his frustration, Norman inadvertently touched another nerve: The franchise’s sad culture of wanting credit before it has done anything to warrant it.

[FedEx Field wasn’t built to be loud, and the Redskins have done little to change that]

Norman actually isn’t the type to settle; he seldom seems content. But over the years, Washington has had too many players — and even coaches and executives — who couldn’t handle success because they viewed it as an item on a checklist and not a mentality that requires constant investment. That is why they have gone 26 years without making repeat visits to the playoffs. That is why they struggle to put together winning streaks and keep the right core together for long periods of time.

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, Dancing Bear said:

Not worth getting mad at this team. It's not like I am forking out money to see these guys and it's getting to the point where I am not wasting my time to watch them on TV. Had a pleasant Thanksgiving.  

Yeah, I'm glad to have a couple sundays back. Didn't watch the Texans game and didn't miss it.

[RedskinsLegacy]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:03 PM, Renegade7 said:

I'm not numb, I'm not indifferent, I'm not done, I'm not pissed.  I've been mulling this for like a day now and it hit me after the hit in the helmet call that got missed on Reed, watching him throw his helmet.  The best analogy I can think of I brought up in RTT is that this whole season has felt like watching an underdog boxer hit the mat multiple times but keep getting back up.  Not only that, but winning a couple rounds as well.

I was thinking more of an old WWF wrestling match with the manager taking cheap shots and strangle holds lol.

[Fred Jones]

Keeping this simple and not reiterating what has been said, but the simple bottom line, we need a franchise QB. Keeping/firing Bruce or Jay does nothing without a franchise QB.

Our game manager QB's keep us in the 6-9 win range, but nothing more. Until the FO figures out how to get a franchise QB, and maybe even draft a pro bowl level WR, we are stuck. Somehow, the Chiefs figured it out.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I get living in the moment. On the surface, you can’t argue with being 6-5. The Skins are one of the worst franchises in the last 25 years of American sports. 6-5 in December feels like a million bucks on the surface. But then you dig deeper and see how flimsy everything is built on. There are teams that have random luck every year and end up with way more wins than they should. 2016 was the Giants. Last year it was Jacksonville and Buffalo. All the underlying metrics said they weren’t very good and benefited from luck or unsustainable performances from inconsistent players. That’s us. We will regress back to suck next year. I’m pretty sure of it. 

 

Having said all of that, i was still all in because like i said, being 6-5 is as rare as pigs flying around here. I was going to sit and enjoy this year 

 

 

and then Norman opened his mouth. Then Swearinger opened his mouth. Begging for fan validation despite them accomplishing little in the grand scheme of things. Still, I conceded. Bought great seats to the Houston game. Yelled my voice out. Only to see them fold. And then that unit alone lost the game On Thanksgiving and that reminded me why my fandom was basically dead in the summer. Its the same bull**** OFF THE FIELD that makes me hate admitting to being a fan 

 

and then to make matters worse, their prized leader of men QB has sucked the entire year and then gets hurt and creates an even worse QB situation than they could have even imagined 

 

i salute those that still believe but it is truly smoke and mirrors. 

 

The team is suck. The franchise is suck. They are the Knicks. They are the Browns. They are the Pirates. They are the Edmonton Oilers. No matter how it seems that things are different, the universe corrects itself soon enough 

 

without fail 

[50yrSKINSfan]

3 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I get living in the moment. On the surface, you can’t argue with being 6-5. The Skins are one of the worst franchises in the last 25 years of American sports. 6-5 in December feels like a million bucks on the surface. But then you dig deeper and see how flimsy everything is built on. There are teams that have random luck every year and end up with way more wins than they should. 2016 was the Giants. Last year it was Jacksonville and Buffalo. All the underlying metrics said they weren’t very good and benefited from luck or unsustainable performances from inconsistent players. That’s us. We will regress back to suck next year. I’m pretty sure of it. 

 

Having said all of that, i was still all in because like i said, being 6-5 is as rare as pigs flying around here. I was going to sit and enjoy this year 

 

 

and then Norman opened his mouth. Then Swearinger opened his mouth. Begging for fan validation despite them accomplishing little in the grand scheme of things. Still, I conceded. Bought great seats to the Houston game. Yelled my voice out. Only to see them fold. And then that unit alone lost the game On Thanksgiving and that reminded me why my fandom was basically dead in the summer. Its the same bull**** OFF THE FIELD that makes me hate admitting to being a fan 

 

and then to make matters worse, their prized leader of men QB has sucked the entire year and then gets hurt and creates an even worse QB situation than they could have even imagined 

 

i salute those that still believe but it is truly smoke and mirrors. 

 

The team is suck. The franchise is suck. They are the Knicks. They are the Browns. They are the Pirates. They are the Edmonton Oilers. No matter how it seems that things are different, the universe corrects itself soon enough 

 

without fail 

We feel your pain brave but we are still tied for first place and it wil be DECEMBER in a few days. If someone said to you your team will be in first place when you saw the schedule in the summer you would have said "I'll take it". Even if we do not win the division we can still get a WC. The Panthers still have the Saints 2 times? Sitting her watching the birds and nats I can see we are capable of beating both of them. Save the stress, you have a long way to go my friend. Some deep breaths. I would be happy beating the nats twice and the Seahawks in a WC game.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll say this it looks like this team and Jay will be tested like no other season because I can't recall a scenario like this before

 

A.  We had a 2 game lead over the Cowboys.  That's when Norman was bragging about the 6-3 record.  Just like that within 5 days Dallas seizes the day and takes out Atlanta on the road (same team that crushed us at home) and then beats us in front of the nation to take the division lead granted via tie breakers.  And Dallas now is all the rage on national shows and getting their customary mega buzz.  And we are getting our customary drill of being written off as pretenders.

 

B.  We might have a chance to go at this round 2.  If Dallas loses to NO.  Then we got the Eagles on the national stage on MNF.   That game would have similar high stakes like the Thanksgiving game.  If the Eagles beat us, they tie for the division lead and overtake us because of division records -- and then the narrative will be the Eagles are back and its a two horse race between them and Dallas.

 

Now if that happens back to back, wow.  But this team has a golden opportunity to right this situation.  If Dallas loses to NO and the Redskins beat the Eagles then the Redskins take hold of the division and take the momentum, too.  These high stake dances typically don't go well though for this team.  The major exception being the Saturday Night win in Philly in 2015. 

 

My point is if they lose to Philly and in turn fall to third in the division and fade out of the playoff race, I'd presume Jay is gone with FO changes at the end of the year-- I think for Dan it would be too much drama-emotion IMO to get taken out by division foes that spectacularly in high stakes national games let alone in back to back weeks.  Conversely, if they win that game and take the division -- the emotion will swing in a positive way.   And I admit I'd be so stunned by a big victory like that I'd have a bounce in my step for quite some time.  Sadly, I also don't expect a high stakes win on the national stage because its not how we seem to roll.    But for Jay's career that MNF game might be his biggest.

[88Comrade2000]

Since Seattle beat Carolina, we are currently in 6th place at the moment.  

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Since Seattle beat Carolina, we are currently in 6th place at the moment.  

yep. we would go on the road to face the bears in Chicago, and the Vikings would go on the road to face the cowboys. 

[GoDeep81]

This thread was supposed to make me feel better somehow? 😳 lol 

[kleese]

11 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

This thread was supposed to make me feel better somehow? 😳 lol 

 

ES is not the place for anyone looking to feel better about anything....

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

ES is not the place for anyone looking to feel better about anything....

I do get a ton of laughs though. we're all miserable most seasons, why not find a way to laugh about it  

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, GoDeep81 said:

This thread was supposed to make me feel better somehow? 😳 lol 

It's not meant to make you feel better, just me saying what's on my mind and seeing who feels same way.

 

@Skinsinparadise I'm not sure Norman was bragging about the 6-3 record, it was more about wanting someone to give a damn as much as they did, specifically the home crowd.

 

If every reaction to something good is still something bad, then y'all don't get why I started the thread.  Codependency in this fan base is very real.

3 hours ago, kleese said:

 

ES is not the place for anyone looking to feel better about anything....

 

That's completely our choice, too.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I

@Skinsinparadise I'm not sure Norman was bragging about the 6-3 record, it was more about wanting someone to give a damn as much as they did, specifically the home crowd.

 

In the mix of what he said he mentioned multiple times that they were 6-3 and implying that's really good so fans should get behind them.  I get the point and agree with the spirit of it from him but for me Brewer hit the nail on the head about how this team has a history of celebrating a bit prematurely and things not ending well.  The way I took Brewer's point is Norman inadvertently entered those waters whether intended or not.

 

But my point anyway wasn't exclusive to Norman but to a vibe of putting the cart before the horse, I gave other examples too.  And I do agree with you there is some cool narrative involving with the offense making due considering their injuries and some nice stories in that mix such as Peterson, the patch work O line, Doctson emerging some and heck maybe even Quinn.  I don't have that same good will feeling about the defense, I don't think the defense is an overachieving unit, its been very healthy, and that's also where the drama of the team seems to be coming from too.   Listening to Swearinger, he seems to present the case that the defense can use a wakeup call in how they go about their business.  So for those reasons among others, I don't have that same warm and fuzzy feeling about that unit as a whole but certainly feel good about some of the players on it.

[kleese]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

It's not meant to make you feel better, just me saying what's on my mind and seeing who feels same way.

 

@Skinsinparadise I'm not sure Norman was bragging about the 6-3 record, it was more about wanting someone to give a damn as much as they did, specifically the home crowd.

 

If every reaction to something good is still something bad, then y'all don't get why I started the thread.  Codependency in this fan base is very real.

 

That's completely our choice, too.

 

I’m just messing around. If the ES self-loathing ACTUALLY bothered me I’d have bailed years ago.