Starting QB 2019???

[Cooleyfan1993]

@skins2victory i wouldnt like giving them our 2020 1st round pick at all. If we do end up getting Rosen and he doesn’t do well and the team has a losing record and Gruden gets fired, i want a first round pick for next year’s draft so a new regime can draft a QB in Vegas when the QB class is better. 

[Peregrine]

58 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

Yes, definitely.  He started last year, and if they're serious about winning, they would announce Rosen as he starter prior to camp.  Not to slight Keenum, but everyone knows that he's here as insurance once we get Rosen.  The odd man out might be McCoy.  Jay hates carrying 3 QB's, so Colt might find himself cut.  You don't get Rosen to then have him sit behind Keenum.  Rosen will easily win the QB battle at camp.

You literally get Rosen so he can sit behind Keenum.  The whole issue he had was he wasnt ready to be thrown into that, and in a bad situation.  Instead, you can sit him for a year, let him learn and recover from the shell-shock in Arizona.  Otherwise you basically set him up for more of the same failure behind an OLine that got its top 2 starting QBs legs taken off.  Draft 2 offensive linemen, improve the line, then let him come out next year.

[MisterPinstripe]

If we could trade for Rosen and then draft a WR in the first round I would be pretty excited. We need another LB but have to go WR early I think.

[bakedtater1]

2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

@skins2victory i wouldnt like giving them our 2020 1st round pick at all. If we do end up getting Rosen and he doesn’t do well and the team has a losing record and Gruden gets fired, i want a first round pick for next year’s draft so a new regime can draft a QB in Vegas when the QB class is better. 

This to is an excellent point..I didn't stop to think about this..

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Why would the Skins want to adopt a guy the Cards just drafted and want to get rid of in favor of drafting another can't miss guy in the first round?  I don't get it.  I know the Cards had a tough year and Rosen was thrown to the wolves so I'm not really dogging on Rosen but I just got to question what they are not seeing in Rosen.

 

I have concerns about Rosen but its not related to why the Cards look like they are getting rid of him.  Yet, I'd like the deal if they don't give up a first.  Could Rosen be another Ramsey, Campbell, RG3, etc -- IMO absolutely.  I wouldn't be shocked at all.   Could Rosen be another Kirk or better -- IMO absolutely, too.  IMO he's a 50-50 boom-bust prospect.  But if you aren't giving up a first, its a small price to pay IMO to find out.  He certainly has tools.  Great footwork, quick release, timing and rhythm type of thrower. Deadly accurate in the intermediate part of the field. 

 

To me what's making the Cards tick -- its simple

 

A. Murray > Rosen.  And its not even close IMO 

B.  Murray > Rosen for the spread system

 

So its an easy as heck decision for the Cardinals to move on from Rosen aside from the ego aspect of dumping their first rounder one year later.  It's not as if they have given up on Rosen.  Instead, its they have a better prospect staring in their face.  Ditto reading and listening to the Arizona reporters about this, there is concern about the team losing fans and interest right now and Rosen doesn't get fans in the seats.  They expect Murray would. 

 

I actually do think there is a reason why Rosen likely can be had for less than a first rounder right now and that reason isn't totally because Arizona wants to unload him.   He was far from a flawless player in UCLA.  Like in Arizona, people gave him excuses for it.  Bad supporting cast, changing O coordinators, etc.  But still he didn't live up to his hype in college.  I recall his trajectory pretty well.  I watched him on and off his whole career.  I recall the hype was similar ironically to Luck early on but he never lived up to it.  He ended up good to very good but IMO he wasn't a great college QB. 

 

JP Finlay covered this some on his podcast the other day which is there is some rewriting of history about Rosen in the 2018 draft.  Rosen was liked by some draft geeks, loved by some, and disliked by some.  And the dislike wasn't purely about his personality, some of it was about his play.   It wasn't some over the top love fest on the aggregate.  His stats were not special.  There were some red flags by some.   I was just reading a couple of 2018 draft magazines I had left over.  One had Rosen as the best QB in the draft.  The other thought he would be a bust. 

 

As for the narrative by some that he'd be one of the highest ranked QBs in this draft -- I actually do believe that.  But that has a lot to do with the caliber of QBs in this draft.   Again, I think he's worth the risk.  Just throwing a little cold water though on the idea that we got now a franchise QB for the next 15 years if they acquire him.  Not saying anyone is saying that here but making the point that we got some unknown variables with Rosen that need to play out.   I think its certainly possible Rosen works out.  But I don't feel the confidence about him the way I did last year for example about Darnold. 

 

But getting back to landing Rosen.  If what's being said on the Internet is right, we should be able to get him.   People talk the Pats but I read somewhere that they weren't high on Rosen before the 2018 draft so who knows.  And as for the Giants, Tony Pauline who is pretty plugged in said yesterday that he gathered Rosen isn't their type of QB especially because he isn't their type of guy.  So the competition might truly just be us versus the Chargers?  Be cool if so.  So while I am cautious about Rosen the player, I'd love to get him if it isn't a first rounder.   And I think if Arizona ultimately trades him -- I'd guess we'd be the front runners to land him.   And that's good IMO (as long as its not a first rounder  😀)

 

 

 

 

[bakedtater1]

^^^ all signs point to Eli definitely returning..yeeesssss!!!

[redskinss]

9 hours ago, skins2victory said:

Cards get: The Skins 2020 first round pick and a 2019 3rd round pick, (pick #97).

Wouldn't that just be so poetically Redskins like.

We give up our 2020 first round pick,  win two games next year and watch the cardinals (who already have a franchise quarterback in place) get 3 first rounders in exchange for the first overall pick in a draft loaded with quarterback talent.

[Skinsinparadise]

this guy has been often wrong but did get the Landon Collins signing right

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Wouldn't that just be so poetically Redskins like.

We give up our 2020 first round pick,  win two games next year and watch the cardinals (who already have a franchise quarterback in place) get 3 first rounders in exchange for the first overall pick in a draft loaded with quarterback talent.

 

Yeah with the RG3 trade -- we actually in that mix gave the Rams the 2nd pick in the draft with one of those 1's.  Yeah if its all about win now in 2019 otherwise people lose jobs -- why not give up 2020 picks?   They'd have nothing to lose.  I hope they don't trade 2020 picks.  But it would fit the narrative of its now or never -- all in for 2019. 

 

Personally, while I'd like acquiring Rosen if it doesn't involve a first -- I don't think he fixes anything for 2019 aside from maybe fan enthusiasm as to hope for the future.  For 2 reasons:

 

A.  I am not in the camp that Rosen is a polished product.  I think you get some growing pains with him this season. Among other things, Jay IMO will have to help fix his decision making and fumbling issues.   I think 2019 would partly be about fixing his flaws.

 

B.  People goof on the Arizona Cards supporting cast but is our supporting cast really that much better?  I think I'd actually take Arizona's receivers over ours -- who do we have better than C. Kirk or Fitzgerald?   Our O line is better than theirs but its also a ticking time bomb injury wise.  And the depth on the O line if anything is worse than last year.

 

If you get Rosen IMO you got to really go to town fixing the supporting cast on offense in the draft.  Otherwise, I don't see how he's coming into that much of a better situation than he did in Arizona unless we got lucky on the injury front this year on the O line. 

[redskinss]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

-- I don't think he fixes anything for 2019 aside from maybe fan enthusiasm as to hope for the future.

Agree completely. 

I wouldn't even mind giving up this years first as long as we got another pick in return with Rosen, maybe a 3rd rounder.

But to give up an unknown future first rounder on a team that has all the makings of a dumpster fire could be totally disastrous.

Especially considering the talent at the quarterback position coming out next year.

 

 

[theTruthTeller]

The last time the Skins traded for a quarterback who had some sort of sustained success in DC.....

 

.... Billy Kilmer!  (we gave up two draft choices and linebacker Tom Roussel - it was George Allen's first trade for Washington)

 

While I was researching how quarterbacks got here, I came across this funny story as told by Billy Kilmer (who, it oddly turns out, was good friends with Cowboys owner Clint Murchison):

Quote

 

In the last game of the regular season in `76, Kilmer found himself in a terrible predicament. The Redskins had to beat the Cowboys in Texas Stadium to make the playoffs, and on Friday night he was arrested and charged with driving while intoxicated near his home in Virginia.

''I spent most of the night in jail, then I had to make a 10 a.m. practice and fly to Dallas with the team. Edward Bennett Williams (then the Redskins` owner) was very upset. He wanted me out of there after the season, but then we beat the Cowboys (27-14) and I guess that helped me.

''Sandy (Kilmer`s wife) was sitting in Clint`s box, and I had a real good first half and we were ahead 17-7. But when the third quarter started, I threw an interception. Then Roger threw an interception. Then I threw another one.

''Clint stood up and yelled: `Sandy! It looks like Billy is sobering up!` ''

 

(link)

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Agree completely. 

I wouldn't even mind giving up this years first as long as we got another pick in return with Rosen, maybe a 3rd rounder.

But to give up an unknown future first rounder on a team that has all the makings of a dumpster fire could be totally disastrous.

Especially considering the talent at the quarterback position coming out next year.

 

 

 

If I had to pick my poison I'd rather give up a first this year than next year for reasons you explained and I've explained before myself.  But I wouldn't like ANY deal if it involved a first rounder.  

 

I saw someone post on twitter, either you buy in on Rosen where you'd be more than glad to give up a first or even more because a franchise QB is worth that or you don't believe in Rosen and in that case you shouldn't want to give up anything for him.   I got that dude's point but I disagree with it.  IMO there is easily another thought that fits in between those two view points (which is how I see it) which is a QB can potentially be a franchise QB but you are far from sure about it.  

 

The idea IMO that teams are either dead sure that a dude is a franchise Qb or its the opposite and that's how they draft -- I really doubt that.  There is so much unknown and unpredictability with young QBs.  So many hyped college QBs end up busts or mediocre and conversely you have some unexpected surprises.  There is a major crap shoot aspect to drafting QBs.   I am willing to take the risk on Josh but I don't see him above the crap shoot category. 

 

For me my doubts is Rosen's field vision and decision making and turnover issues that are a product of that.  There is actually a tweet running about this right now which is getting come circulation (which I won't post here) showing some examples of it.   I can see the issues watching his UCLA games.  And its not that I am any QB expert (I am no scout and an amateur about this stuff) but I think it would be obvious to anyone if they sat through 5-6 of his games like I did.   It's hard to miss.   Cooley hit the point hard in his film review among other things. 

 

For me if I had to boil it down.  If Rosen's decision making issues is a product of poor field vision and or lack of preparation -- I got little doubt he will be a bust.  But on the other hand if Rosen's issues can be somewhat fixed (aka Kirk from 2014 to 2015) because its a product more of his gun slinger mindset and is taught to protect the ball better -- then we got ourselves a QB.  To me that's a big part of why I see Rosen as a 50-50- boom bust prospect. 

 

I am not as put off as some about his personality.  I've watched a bunch of his interviews and read about him a bunch.  He seems OK.  He comes off smart but a bit immature.  The part though that concerns me is his arrogance if that trait filters into preparation.  When I hear his UCLA coach claim he is so smart that he gets bored in QB meetings (I forgot the exact words but it was something like that) coupled with a couple of people saying they heard from some that he didn't work that hard in Arizona.  it makes me pause.

 

From what I can tell, his teammates in Arizona liked him.  But I am not sure the arrogance disappeared.  At least according to Tony Pauline the other day, some people in the Arizona FO didn't love his attitude-arrogance.  Could this stuff be wrong?  Sure.  And I don't mind arrogance but if its not coupled with results you could be living in delusion and in turn you don't improve your game.   Some humility sometimes helps if you are trying to move from X to Y. 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I’ve seen this argument made so I’ll share it, can’t remember the dudes name, he was touting the easy decision it would be to trade a 1st for Rosen if need be, see’s enormous potential in him.

 

Jared Goff’s 1st year:

Games Started: 7 

record: 0-7

Completion %: 54.6

TD’s: 5

Int: 7 

Rating: 63.6

Game winning drives: 0

4th quarter comebacks: 0

 

Josh Rosen’s 1st year:

Games Started: 13

Record: 3-10

Completion %: 55.2

TD’s: 11

Int: 14

Rating: 66.7

Game Winning Drives: 2

4th quarter comebacks: 1

 

Goff went from what was being called a total bust to these stats in 2017 w/ McVay at the helm. 

 

Games Started: 15

Record: 11-4

Completion %: 62.1

TD’s: 28

Ints: 7

Rating: 100.5

Game winning drives: 1

4th quarter comebacks: 1

 

It also implies that trading for Rosen and then letting him sit behind Keenum may not be the best strategy. I’d have a hard time trading real draft capital and then sitting him yr 1, it would be ballsy. 

 

If we made the move:

Wonder if Gruden would be the one pushing for him or if Bruce is doing what he wants like w/ what’s been reported on Alex Smith. Cuz if it’s Gruden it would be the 1st QB that is his choice since he’s been here, per speculation/reports. Seems like we are the front runners at this point. We’ll see what happens..

 

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know what to think about this Rosen thing. 

 

On one hand, it's the type of move the Redskins should make.  It's the right kind of gamble.  Young qb on a rookie contract, a lot of upside.  I'd make that deal anytime, depending on what needs to be given up, of course.  

 

On the other hand, like many of you, I just don't know if he's that good.  That remains to be seen.  

 

I'm more concerned about who he'd throw to this year if we do get him.  Crowder is gone, Reed is Mr. Glass, Doctson is whatever...I mean, if we are going to take on a project like this (let's be clear, he's a project) I think a possibly surefire way to ruin him is to run him out there with this current roster.  Of course there's still some FAs out there, we can still draft a WR but as it stands...yikes.  I don't think any of us trust the Redskins to draft a WR, either.  We've been down that road many times.  Yes, different regimes, different eras but still.

 

My point is that I don't totally see how Rosen makes strides in his development if he's going to a team that's not heads and shoulders better than where he's coming from.  

[hogdirty]

I believe all these rumors are from Arizona to get the NYG to give up their #17 pick. 

 

As far as Rosen going to the Redskins, I don't see the Skins trading for Rosen at all.  In fact if the Redskins trade for Rosen I want The ES Moderators to ban me for 30 days because I'm willing to bet it won't happen 😁

 

Look at this vid 😂.  Everyone coming up with crazy excuses for this guy but you got to work hard to be this bad.  With Fitzgerald, David Johnson, and Kirk AZ had weapons 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

10 hours ago, Peregrine said:

You literally get Rosen so he can sit behind Keenum.  The whole issue he had was he wasnt ready to be thrown into that, and in a bad situation.  Instead, you can sit him for a year, let him learn and recover from the shell-shock in Arizona.  Otherwise you basically set him up for more of the same failure behind an OLine that got its top 2 starting QBs legs taken off.  Draft 2 offensive linemen, improve the line, then let him come out next year.

 

Sunofa...you did it again lol...your posts are giving me whiplash.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

this guy has been often wrong but did get the Landon Collins signing right

 

 

 

 

This isn't aimed at you or your post, but I always ignore anything incarceratedbob has to say lol...I feel like 90% of his tweets involve restating stuff that others have already broken or just wild guesses that he hopes become true to grow his reputation as being connected.

 

Plus I just dislike when non-media members use "Breaking" or 'Report" at the beginning of their tweets lol...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Schefter saying the Cards have not engaged in active trade discussions "to date" with anyone and expect Rosen to show up to off-season workouts.

 

I guess that means the Giants and Pats did not bite on the rumor like the Cards hoped they would? lol...so now they're leaking this to say "Whoa, come back to the table, guys, we're not actually talking trade with Redskins!"

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, Peregrine said:

You literally get Rosen so he can sit behind Keenum.  The whole issue he had was he wasnt ready to be thrown into that, and in a bad situation.  Instead, you can sit him for a year, let him learn and recover from the shell-shock in Arizona.  Otherwise you basically set him up for more of the same failure behind an OLine that got its top 2 starting QBs legs taken off.  Draft 2 offensive linemen, improve the line, then let him come out next year.

 

I see no way this happens. If the Skins are looking for a guy who can play immediately and they pick up Rosen from the Cards that means they think he can play now and will play him. I see no reason to sit him anyway. He has outstanding footwork and mechanics, came from a pro style system in college, and has played a year in the NFL. If you think he's "shell shocked" after a tough year then you absolutely don't trade for him as that means he's way too mentally fragile. And our OL is way better than Arizona's was. Their OL was dead last in the league per PFF's rankings and IIRC their numbers said they were a good amount worse than the 31st ranked OL. They really were just that bad.

 

54 minutes ago, hogdirty said:

I believe all these rumors are from Arizona to get the NYG to give up their #17 pick. 

 

As far as Rosen going to the Redskins, I don't see the Skins trading for Rosen at all.  In fact if the Redskins trade for Rosen I want The ES Moderators to ban me for 30 days because I'm willing to bet it won't happen 😁

 

Look at this vid 😂.  Everyone coming up with crazy excuses for this guy but you got to work hard to be this bad.  With Fitzgerald, David Johnson, and Kirk AZ had weapons 

 

 

Some of the "excuses" are actually realistic. As I mentioned above, he had easily the worst OL in the NFL last year. They also had absolutely inept play calling (their OC got fired in the during the season). As far as receiving, Fitzgerald is still a somewhat shifty slot guy but he's 35 years old and a shell of the WR he once was. Johnson was completely misused all season...that's one of the reasons their first OC got fired. Kirk had an ok year for a rookie but he was still a 2nd round rookie so I don't think anyone was expecting him to come in immediately and be OBJ or something. There was stat line posted in here not long ago that showed Arizona's receivers being 29th ranked in the league in getting separation.

 

Rosen absolutely has some flags and some issues with his game. But IMO the whole thing about him being on an awful team with a ton of glaring deficiencies is completely legit as well.

[JoggingGod]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

This isn't aimed at you or your post, but I always ignore anything incarceratedbob has to say lol...

 

Yeah.  Well I did say he was wrong on most things sans the Landon Collins rumor.  As I said on another thread, Stevedraft is this random fan who has been posting on twitter for years.  All of a sudden months ago, Stevedraft billed himself as an insider with sources.  And the funny thing is almost everything he said "he heard" comes from a tweet from incarceratededbob.   Everything thus far being wrong.  Eventually he will get lucky and guess right on something.  

 

I posted that tweet for entertainment value. 😀

 

As you mentioned, Schefter says nothing happening yet.  And I posted last night a tweet from Nate Blogg that suggested the same.  Nateblogg broke the Keenum trade story. 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

...Stevedraft is this random fan who has been posting on twitter for years.  All of a sudden months ago, Stevedraft billed himself as an insider with sources.  And the funny thing is almost everything he said "he heard" comes from a tweet from incarceratededbob.   Everything thus far being wrong.  Eventually he will get lucky and guess right on something.  

 

I posted that tweet for entertainment value. 😀

 

4

 

Ah, lawd lol....that's the wrong guy to do that with.

 

Have you followed any Cardinals beat writers concerning Rosen? I usually do when there's a possible FA/player acquisition for the Skins--seek out that team's beat writers in hopes they have more inside info--but I haven't done so on this.

[HigSkin]

FWIW =

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Have you followed any Cardinals beat writers concerning Rosen? I usually do when there's a possible FA/player acquisition for the Skins--seek out that team's beat writers in hopes they have more inside info--but I haven't done so on this.

 

Yep AZCentral sports and Josh Weinfuss. 

 

 

[dswerdlw]

I'm buying into the idea that Giants want to draft Daniel Jones with the 17th pick. Jones and Manning go way back, and that mentoring situation should appeal to the Giants. With that in mind, I think we're in the driver's seat to trade for Rosen -- unless the Pats or Chargers really want him. I don't buy into the Pats theory, as they trade quarterbacks rather than for quarterbacks.  Chargers are legitimate contenders now, so I think that they won't be putting resources into anything but immediate help.  If Rosen is to be traded, this is why I see us as the most legitimate partner. I favor the idea that we get him for this year's second rounder and next year's third or fourth.