Renegade7

Starting QB 2019???

Who should be the starting QB in 2019???  

402 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should be the starting QB in 2019???

    • Alex Smith
      29
    • Colt McCoy
      66
    • Trade for a Veteran
      8
    • Sign a Veteran
      29
    • First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      65
    • Non-First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      37
    • Too Early to Answer
      63
    • I don't know yet
      22
    • We're screwed (at least at QB for 2019)
      83


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19 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

All checks out. These things are true & we are stupid.

 

 

I notice you keep referencing his best game. The first one against Seattle. Have you watched any others?  Only reason why I ask is it seems to be your go to reference with Rosen. And I've seen you dissect other players before (and done a great job on that stuff) and you typically reference multiple games.

 

For me, I am going purely on UCLA games. For kicks I watched both Seattle games but I purposely gave him a pass for last season. 

 

Weeks ago I did an analysis on him and showed clips. And I did clips that promote his play versus challenge him. Maybe later I'll pull some clips that to me showed the dark side to his play. 😀

 

I am in a weird place about Rosen. To me there are some really cool aspects to his game and conversely some serious concerns. So I have no problem with people that are enamored by him or for that matter don't like him. Because both points make sense to me for different reasons.

 

If Hoffman is correct I agree with the Redskins FO about not giving up a first rounder. But I am cool with chasing him for something less.

 

But regardless, if some of the national and local beat reporters are correct then the Giants aren't enamored with Rosen. One Pat's reporter said that they didn't like Rosen that much before the 2018 draft. So who are we then competing with? SD I gather can't be that overeager about what would be a back up QB for them for now. As Hoffman said why would SD give up a first rounder when they are in win now mode and need an impact player to help Rivers?

 

So why would they have to give up a 1st when supposedly no one else is offering them a first?

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32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It's a fair point about our OL and injuries, but even injured our OL ranked much better than Arizona's. After week 17 of last season PFF had our OL ranked 19th and Arizona's 32nd.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

Isn't PFF's score though an aggregate score for the whole season or did they rate the patchwork O line that they ended up with as the 17th best?

 

My point was our O line is good when healthy. But the last 2 years it didn't end pretty. So if again we get hit by injuries and sign people off the street and run through scrubs at guard and lose Trent without having Ty to back him up this time - it might not be hot.

 

35 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It's a fair point about our OL and injuries, but even injured our OL ranked much better than Arizona's. After week 17 of last season PFF had our OL ranked 19th and Arizona's 32nd.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

They were abysmal. IIRC there was a stat posted here showing that something like 18 of Rosen's sacks came in less than 2.5 seconds. That's insane. 

 

As far as pass catchers I think it's difficult to compare. 

I saw somewhere the Cards and Redskins receivers ranked dead last in big plays lady season. And Finlay said the Redskins receivers were overall ranked last year. Not sure what metric he used though.

 

But my point is simple. Rosen would not be inheriting a good supporting cast on offense. Unless we strike it big in this draft.

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40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Isn't PFF's score though an aggregate score for the whole season or did they rate the patchwork O line that they ended up with as the 17th best?

 

My point was our O line is good when healthy. But the last 2 years it didn't end pretty. So if again we get hit by injuries and sign people off the street and run through scrubs at guard and lose Trent without having Ty to back him up this time - it might not be hot.

 

I saw somewhere the Cards and Redskins receivers ranked dead last in big plays lady season. And Finlay said the Redskins receivers were overall ranked last year. Not sure what metric he used though.

 

But my point is simple. Rosen would not be inheriting a good supporting cast on offense. Unless we strike it big in this draft.

 

After checking again I think PFF's grades are on a week by week basis. I went back and looked at a bunch of their after-week assessments and you could see the decline of our OL throughout the season. For example after week 4 they had us up at 8. But then injuries started taking their toll and we steadily slipped lower and lower until we were in the 19-20 range for the latter part of the season. Contrast that to Arizona which was rated bottom 2 every single week and dead last most weeks. 

 

As far a big plays and our lack of them, some of that I think had to do with having a QB who pretty much never took shots. Again, I'm not saying we have a great cast, but I think it could be ok if we had a QB willing to throw to them. Again, the loss of Crowder could hurt, but Quinn showed some flashes in his limited playing time last year so hopefully he can come back healthy and make an impact. I also hope we get a WR or TE high this draft. I'd love to nab Hockenson at 15, or if he's gone maybe trade back and pick up Harry a bit later.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So why would they have to give up a 1st when supposedly no one else is offering them a first?

Rosen is 1st rounder until the cards draft Murray.

Once they do Rosen's value will nosedive. 

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

As far a big plays and our lack of them, some of that I think had to do with having a QB who pretty much never took shots. Again, I'm not saying we have a great cast, but I think it could be ok if we had a QB willing to throw to them. Again, the loss of Crowder could hurt, but Quinn showed some flashes in his limited playing time last year so hopefully he can come back healthy and make an impact. I also hope we get a WR or TE high this draft. I'd love to nab Hockenson at 15, or if he's gone maybe trade back and pick up Harry a bit later.

 

Alex was definitely Mr. Checkdown but in his defense he didn't have IMO a hot supporting cast.  If I recall I saw somewhere among other things we were one of the worst teams in YAC in the league.   And I like Doctson more than most here.  And was touting Richardson in FA.  But this team IMO doesn't have a true #1 and or game breaker at receiver.   Based on what Keim and Hoffman have said, the team does realize this and hopes to fix this in the draft.  So will see.

 

here is football outsiders ranking of worst passing offenses last year -- QB combined with receivers

 

 

 

PASSINGOFFENSE.png

on another note:

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Rosen is 1st rounder until the cards draft Murray.

Once they do Rosen's value will nosedive

I agree but I’m starting to think Rosen’s value has already dropped just based on the situation Arizona has created. I bet by now Rosen has told his agent he wants out. If the Cards don't draft a QB this draft, they are going to have one unhappy camper. The longer the Cards wait, the lower the offers will get as likely trade partners are finalizing their draft boards and planning on life without Rosen. 

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I notice you keep referencing his best game. The first one against Seattle. Have you watched any others?  Only reason why I ask is it seems to be your go to reference with Rosen. And I've seen you dissect other players before (and done a great job on that stuff) and you typically reference multiple games.

 

For me, I am going purely on UCLA games. For kicks I watched both Seattle games but I purposely gave him a pass for last season. 

 

Weeks ago I did an analysis on him and showed clips. And I did clips that promote his play versus challenge him. Maybe later I'll pull some clips that to me showed the dark side to his play. 😀

 

I am in a weird place about Rosen. To me there are some really cool aspects to his game and conversely some serious concerns. So I have no problem with people that are enamored by him or for that matter don't like him. Because both points make sense to me for different reasons.

 

If Hoffman is correct I agree with the Redskins FO about not giving up a first rounder. But I am cool with chasing him for something less.

 

But regardless, if some of the national and local beat reporters are correct then the Giants aren't enamored with Rosen. One Pat's reporter said that they didn't like Rosen that much before the 2018 draft. So who are we then competing with? SD I gather can't be that overeager about what would be a back up QB for them for now. As Hoffman said why would SD give up a first rounder when they are in win now mode and need an impact player to help Rivers?

 

So why would they have to give up a 1st when supposedly no one else is offering them a first?

 

I just use that game because it was his first start in the nfl. He was more impressive in that game than Alex Smith was in any game for Washington. I watched every game, I have made references to others, I didn’t anticipate liking him at all, but my expectations have no bearing on what reality ends up being. You know I didn’t pay much attention to Murray when I thought he was headed to baseball, and you know I said he was unlikely to get to #2 in the draft after I watched 3 minutes of him.... before anyone else was saying he was going #1. That’s on this forum. You know I was up on Lock while this board was crushing him. You know I was the first one here who poked, 100 holes, into Haskins. You know i didn’t want to trade for Alex. You know I didn’t want to keep Kirk. This stuff is simple, I watch what needs to be seen, I had to watch more of Rosen because I couldn’t believe he was as good as he is.

 

I can tell you, with 100% certainty, Rosen is going to be a better QB than Alex Smith or Cousins. I’ll donate $1000 to the charity of the ES’s choice if there is any doubt in anyone’s mind by the time he’s 26. I’ll send you my information, heck, I’ll send you the money to hold, I don’t care, and it’s not possible that I’ll be wrong because it’s already there. 

 

In my time on this planet I’ve watched more QB play than most scouts will in 60 years, my mothers baby brother is one of the best QB coaches to ever do it, this is not a difficult position to project once you have NFL film on a guy. 

 

Heck, you know I bought TrevorLawrence.com in July 2016 because, before anyone here had a clue who he was, I knew he was the best QB prospect I had ever seen. My unpopular opinions all become popular in time. Murray, Lawrence, and Rosen will soon follow. 

 

I’ll break it down, but people on this board get defensive & dismissive... which results in me being.... defensive & dismissive. 🤔 I wish people here took the simple things I try to share seriously, but people make up their minds & refuse to interact with, or even acknowledge, irrefutable points. 

 

I can guarantee you Will Grier will never prove worthy of a 7th round pick. There isn’t a chance I’ll be wrong about him, it’s proven in his film, people just don’t know what they’re looking at.

 

This place is phenomenal, you and ... really, there are 4-7 guys in the draft thread who know their stuff, you guys are better than 50% of the people who get paid, but on this board, we don’t get into the nuances as much as you guys would if we sat down for a podcast or something. We are going to the combine next year, you better be in.

 

I would Love to have a discussion on Rosen, pro’s v con’s. I would Love (another capital “l” for SIP) to read/view/consume everything you see and break it down with you. I’m willing to take my 100% down to 98.7% certainty on him simply because of how much I respect your opinion & desire to challenge yourself on anyone. That may seem a meager concession, but it’s substantial for me. 

 

What I don’t get about your QB philosophy is, why would he be worth a 2nd but not a first to you? No one wins the SB because of the difference between their 1st & 2nd round pick; you’re a guy who seems to believe you either get your guy or move on, no middling Keenums. I can’t imagine believing in a QB ...but only enough for a 2nd. If we can get him for a 2nd, great, but if we believe he’s the guy, he’s going to be worth far more than the difference between Bradbury & Jenkins. 

 

You’re the man, SIP. I hope you are available to do this more regularly when you become an even older fart. I hope you have enjoyed your vacation... you’re about as classy, humble, bright, & considerate a guy as I can imagine running into on a forum. @skinny21 @goskins10 & @Anselmheifer ... just an incredible group here. 

 

leo-toast-4.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.gif

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Isn't PFF's score though an aggregate score for the whole season or did they rate the patchwork O line that they ended up with as the 17th best?

 

My point was our O line is good when healthy. But the last 2 years it didn't end pretty. So if again we get hit by injuries and sign people off the street and run through scrubs at guard and lose Trent without having Ty to back him up this time - it might not be hot

 

Our line protected our QBs about as well as sprite protects from UV rays. 

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

Rosen is 1st rounder until the cards draft Murray.

Once they do Rosen's value will nosedive. 

 

Until he’s, indisputably, a top 10 QB. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

on another note:

 

 

 

 

Who said that before anyone else. 

 

giphy.gif

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14 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

What I don’t get about your QB philosophy is, why would he be worth a 2nd but not a first to you? No one wins the SB because of the difference between their 1st & 2nd round pick; you’re a guy who seems to believe you either get your guy or move on, no middling Keenums. I can’t imagine believing in a QB ...but only enough for a 2nd. If we can get him for a 2nd, great, but if we believe he’s the guy, he’s going to be worth far more than the difference between Bradbury & Jenkins. 

 

 

Thanks for all the complements.  All of the same stuff applies to you.  You work hard at it.  And its fun to read what you put out and its interesting-great stuff.   I'll add more to this response later and respond to your full post.  I got people visiting me right now who already probably think I am rude because I keep jumping away from the living room to check out this thread.😀  So I'll just hit this point for now.

 

Like you, I've watched a lot of QB tape of college QBs this year.  And for me at least there are some QBs that to my eyes at least have some really blatant stuff good and bad that's just hard to miss.  And others are tougher reads.   And I try to stay emotionally detached when I watch it.  And then read what other people say about these players after I've made my own observations with some exceptions.

 

A great example for me is I was enamored with Stidham's arm at the senior bowl.  And the hype he got from it.  Then I watched some interviews of him and loved him even more.  Then I watched some games.   And it was easy to see how frazzled and poorly he played under pressure.  Then I wondered if I was watching the wrong games so I kept watching more.  And saw the same thing.  His positives were obvious to me -- strong arm-accuracy all around the field.   Seems like a great dude, too.  His weaknesses to me were equally obvious.  If for example I heard that the Redskins think they can fix Stidham -- I'd have some doubts but I can follow the logic because I get the tools.

 

That's why for me its not all or nothing when it comes to young QBs.  If Jay thinks he can fix someone and I like aspects of their game, I'll take the ride especially if they don't use a first round pick on said player.  The reason why I am so tough on Daniel Jones is I don't like his tools aside from his size and toughness.  For me at least there is nothing about him that is tantalizing where I am thinking OK we got some great attributes and maybe we can fix the bad ones.  I could be dead wrong about Jones or any of these guys but its how I feel for the moment. 

 

For Rosen, I love his footwork.  I love his quick release.  I love his accuracy in the middle of the field in between the numbers.   He throws well with anticipation.  There was an aspect to his game that I like more than most do and that is I believe he's really good at dodging pressure.  And I even argued with some on the draft thread about that point citing that I don't think Rosen is that stationary of a QB even though he isn't fast.  I think he's relatively mobile because of his quick feet. 

 

Conversely, though, it was tough for me to miss that he played at times like Rex Grossman.  He'd throw some balls that would make me shake my head.   And it was beyond him trying to make tight window throws.  He throws balls at times when no one even looks open or throws them straight into coverage.  I get that happens to all QBs sometimes because of miscommunication with receivers, etc.  But with Rosen it seemed like it happened multiple times every game I watched.  

 

In college, those throws weren't always picked off.  But it doesn't surprise me that in the NFL thus far he has had turnover issues.  He also had 10 fumbles without even starting the full season last year which is pretty bad if you mix that in with his errant throws.  So if I have a dude that I don't trust their decision making and where I have to worry that he will fumble almost every game -- I do have some pause about a dude like that.   And after making those observations, Cooley did his own film review and he saw similar things.  He was actually tougher on him than I was.  And I then delved into more opinion on Rosen and found i am not alone as for questioning his decision making.  Some don't see it as an issue.  But some do. 

 

Reading a little about coaches who are QB whisper types -- they talk some about decision making and field vision as being important traits to being a successful QB.   So my thing with Rosen is I got no idea if his problem (granted its my view not a fact that it is a problem) is driven by being a mega gun slinger and Jay just has to tame the beast.  If that's the case, then I think we got a really good QB.  But if Rosen's issue is his vision isn't that hot and or decision making is suspect -- then I think he will bust.  And that's before delving into personality issues including multiple people saying he didn't work hard in Arizona.  And I don't obviously know if that's true or not.  But my point is there is enough about Rosen IMO to pause as opposed to dive into the deep end of the pool with no concerns. 

 

There is enough to get excited about Rosen.  And conversely there is enough there to pause about him, too.  IMO any QB taken after the first round fits this type of category -- players who have tools but concerns.  Granted that description fits any QB but once you get past the top prospects the variance on the pros and cons rises.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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On 4/4/2019 at 9:19 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My fav QB right now by a mile is Murray but acquiring him isn't going to happen.  So if I had to pick who I'd want left it would be Lock and then Rosen.  Both to me are boom-bust prospects with Lock having the higher ceiling and Rosen having the higher floor.  If they can acquire either one without giving up the store for them, I am cool with it.  

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly............

 

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On 4/4/2019 at 11:35 PM, samy316 said:

 

Yes, definitely.  He started last year, and if they're serious about winning, they would announce Rosen as he starter prior to camp.  Not to slight Keenum, but everyone knows that he's here as insurance once we get Rosen.  The odd man out might be McCoy.  Jay hates carrying 3 QB's, so Colt might find himself cut.  You don't get Rosen to then have him sit behind Keenum.  Rosen will easily win the QB battle at camp.

 

Sure, let's anoint another guy because that has worked so well.

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If the Skins trade for Rosen it is definitely a Dan Snyder driven move and like all other Synder moves a stupid one.  I should hope for it because it would finally be the blow that knocks me off the Redskin bandwagon.   Why my heart has vetoed my head for 20 years I don't know but surely if this happens I will listen to my head because the misery has to finally stop.

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I need to learn a little more about Rosen the Fumbler before I get excited about him again. I may be back on the Lock and Grier train.

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2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

If the Skins trade for Rosen it is definitely a Dan Snyder driven move and like all other Synder moves a stupid one.  I should hope for it because it would finally be the blow that knocks me off the Redskin bandwagon.   Why my heart has vetoed my head for 20 years I don't know but surely if this happens I will listen to my head because the misery has to finally stop.

Oh yes I’d HATE to get a talented 22 year old QB for a 2nd and 3rd. Just an awful move. Real teams only use 7th rounders on QBs.

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

A great example for me is I was enamored with Stidham's arm at the senior bowl.  And the hype he got from it.  Then I watched some interviews of him and loved him even more.  Then I watched some games.   And it was easy to see how frazzled and poorly he played under pressure.  Then I wondered if I was watching the wrong games so I kept watching more.  And saw the same thing.  

 

 

 

 

 

0DABD8C2-8F86-4E53-A191-F241EACFC9CD.thumb.jpeg.46179ecf3142251660c9db92bc8ca81e.jpeg

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Sure, let's anoint another guy because that has worked so well.

 

What is the point of that post. 

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

I need to learn a little more about Rosen the Fumbler before I get excited about him again. I may be back on the Lock and Grier train.

 

If you give a 🤫 about a QBs fumbling issues, fix the offensive line.

 

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8 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

If the Skins trade for Rosen it is definitely a Dan Snyder driven move and like all other Synder moves a stupid one.  I should hope for it because it would finally be the blow that knocks me off the Redskin bandwagon.   Why my heart has vetoed my head for 20 years I don't know but surely if this happens I will listen to my head because the misery has to finally stop.

Than what should the Redskins do?..and you have been a skins fan for only 20 years?

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10 hours ago, volsmet said:

I can guarantee you Will Grier will never prove worthy of a 7th round pick. There isn’t a chance I’ll be wrong about him, it’s proven in his film, people just don’t know what they’re looking at.

 

This place is phenomenal, you and ... really, there are 4-7 guys in the draft thread who know their stuff, you guys are better than 50% of the people who get paid, but on this board, we don’t get into the nuances as much as you guys would if we sat down for a podcast or something. We are going to the combine next year, you better be in.

 

You’re the man, SIP. I hope you are available to do this more regularly when you become an even older fart. I hope you have enjoyed your vacation... you’re about as classy, humble, bright, & considerate a guy as I can imagine running into on a forum. @skinny21 @goskins10 & @Anselmheifer ... just an incredible group here. 

 

Please stop holding back on your feelings on Grier  ;)

 

The pre-draft period is my favorite time of the year. You and posters like the ones you recognize offer intelligent perspectives and breakdowns from burgundy and gold glasses. Makes it a pleasure to read the posts each day. Thanks to all of you!

 

I am hoping Murray, Haskins, Lock and Jones are gone at pick 15 to eliminate temptation. 

 

I agree with SIP that if one of the next level QB's falls on day three and they think they can fix their issues, it is worth the chance....Even if it is Grier lol.

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Just connecting some dots here but makes some sense about timing and OTA's.

 

 

Retweeted by Robert Henson...

 

 

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11 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

If the Skins trade for Rosen it is definitely a Dan Snyder driven move and like all other Synder moves a stupid one.  I should hope for it because it would finally be the blow that knocks me off the Redskin bandwagon.   Why my heart has vetoed my head for 20 years I don't know but surely if this happens I will listen to my head because the misery has to finally stop.

 

How would that be a Dan Snyder move? Or do you just assign that moniker to anything the Skins do that you don't personally like? That actually doesn't really seem like a "Synder driven move" to me. No way we give up a 1st, so a 2nd rounder for a young, talented QB who was a top 10 pick and is on his rookie contract. Sure he has some red flags but he also some some very positive things about his game as well. I'd much rather do that than spend a 1st on a less talented prospect or even give up multiple picks to move up and get a guy like Haskins or Lock who's totally boom or bust. 

 

Some on here think Rosen is boom or bust as well and I somewhat agree, though I think his floor is high enough that if he didn't become great he could at least be serviceable. I'd rather spend a 2nd rounder on a boom or bust guy than a 1st, especially when IMO the guy you're trading a 2nd for was a better prospect than either of the other two in the draft. I think if Rosen were in this draft he'd easily be the 2nd QB off the board and wouldn't get out of the top 5.

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There are some things a qb can fix, and some things he can’t. Throwing motion can be fixed. Pocket presence can be taught. Clock management can be coached. But if you have an issue throwing blindly, or fumbling under pressure repeatedly, you aren’t going to have a long career. 

 

There are so many good options on the table with the picks that we have. It would be absolutely foolish to trade multiple picks for a Delholme/Grossman quarterback that has no history of success. A team that is void of a quarterback pinning its hopes on a 1-and-done AND trading future picks in a draft that is widely regarded as one of the best quarterback drafts in the past decade would be astronomically dense. I’ve thoroughly supported the last 2 drafts. But this would be unforgivable. 

 

This is playing Brad Beal 40 minutes a night, drafting a 3rd small forward in a row, trading the other 2 for flotsam, benching that guy you drafted to take their place, and pushing hard for a playoff spot after John Wall’s career threatening injury when ZION WILLIAMSON is the top prize in the upcoming draft amounts of stupid.

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

It would be absolutely foolish to trade multiple picks for a Delholme/Grossman quarterback that has no history of success. 

 

Do you just draw player comps for the sake of it or do you actually watch football?

Edited by JoggingGod
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