Is a college degree really necessary?

[Springfield]

I never finished college.

 

I started at Mason after high school on FAFSA loans and made it two years before I was removed due to poor grades.  Honestly though, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do at the time and by the time I had completed two years of college I was getting paid decently in the automotive field.  So I took that and ran with it.

 

Now as a 36 year old, I’m doing quite well for myself, own a house in an upper class neighborhood, have a wife and two beautiful young boys.  Also, I paid off the college loan debt that I incurred long ago.  So, I’m doing ok.

 

That said, I feel pigeonholed into the industry that I’m in.  I have years and years of management experience but I’m not sure that it translates beyond the automotive field.  If I wanted to switch fields (say IT) I think I’d be taking a massive pay cut or would need to go back to school.

 

I have a 529 started for both of my children.  I want them to have the option to go to college if that’s what they want.  Joining the military is another option.  Learning a trade is certainly an option as well.  I’ll just try to give as much guidance as possible.

 

I think my scenario is the exception, not the rule.

[PleaseBlitz]

25 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

 

I think my scenario is the exception, not the rule.

 

I think it’s the rule. You found something you were good at and worked at it and now it’s paying off. 

 

I think on balance, doing that in a field that requires a degree probably pays off more in general, but i know a ****ton of people with degrees and graduate degrees and law degrees that just don’t have a work ethic and their degrees don’t really mean **** because you cant be really good at any profession without putting in the work. 

[Springfield]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I think it’s the rule. You found something you were good at and worked at it and now it’s paying off. 

 

I think on balance, doing that in a field that requires a degree probably pays off more in general, but i know a ****ton of people with degrees and graduate degrees and law degrees that just don’t have a work ethic and their degrees don’t really mean **** because you cant be really good at any profession without putting in the work. 

 

Hey, you know what.  That makes me feel good.  Thank you.

 

I feel a slight amount of shame when I tell people that I didn’t finish college.

[PleaseBlitz]

 

[Bacon]

13 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I feel a slight amount of shame when I tell people that I didn’t finish college.

 

That's an indictment of the unhealthy mindset people have about college in this country. You don't owe the education system anything; it's meant to improve you, not the other way around. People often feel that $30-50k in student loan debt is a rite of passage, but it's meant to take you somewhere. If you feel you have somewhere better to be, do that.

 

More people need to take vocational schools seriously and build their careers based on a skill they want to pursue.

[Elessar78]

22 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I think it’s the rule. You found something you were good at and worked at it and now it’s paying off. 

 

I think on balance, doing that in a field that requires a degree probably pays off more in general, but i know a ****ton of people with degrees and graduate degrees and law degrees that just don’t have a work ethic and their degrees don’t really mean **** because you cant be really good at any profession without putting in the work. 

From what I’ve read law school and being a professional lawyer are two different things. Firms have to do a lot of training with new associates. True?

[PleaseBlitz]

13 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

From what I’ve read law school and being a professional lawyer are two different things. Firms have to do a lot of training with new associates. True?

 

New associates don’t know ****.   Except me, I was awesome. 

 

Law school, if you do it right, teaches you to think like a lawyer and the basic skills of research and writing. Like any other thing in life, you suck at it until you do it for real for awhile. 

 

The other thing is most first years went from HS to undergrad to law school and are 25 without ever having a real job of any kind, then get thrown into an extremely demanding job with 10+ hour days, which is a lot to deal with on top of being useless. 

 

[bearrock]

Law school and associate years teach you very different things, all of which are very important to being a good lawyer.  

[DCSaints_fan]

6 hours ago, No Excuses said:

The short answer is yes. Data overwhelmingly says that you will be a big time loser in the modern economy without a college degree. 

 

Anyone offering you advice that college is not necessary wants you to be a sob story in a future NYT article about people left behind in society. 

 

Disagree here ... there are legit options.  The military for instance.  Just know what you're getting into.  And yes, even there its better to go to college and go officer in almost all circumstances, but thats not for everyone.   If you join at 18 and can put in 20, being able to draw a retirement income before 40 and free medical care for life (but maybe not the best quality) isn't a bad deal. 

 

College is a waste of time and money, if you're just there to party.  

 

The only caveat is, I wouldn't advised get married / starting a family young.   Like not before 25.   Maybe this worked in the old days, but in the 21st century America, not the best idea. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

Disagree here ... there are legit options.  The military for instance.  Just know what you're getting into.  And yes, even there its better to go to college and go officer in almost all circumstances, but thats not for everyone.   If you join at 18 and can put in 20, being able to draw a retirement income before 40 and free medical care for life (but maybe not the best quality) isn't a bad deal. 

 

 

Pretty much what I did.  Highest grade I ever completed was 8th grade.  Got my GED then joined at 20.  Been in for almost 17 years and I make more than a lot of friends that went to college and got a civilian job.  

 

Only thing I want to correct/clarify is you don't get free medical for life.  After retirement, you have to pay for healthcare.  The only part that is "free" is for service related disabilities.  

[tshile]

11 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

The other thing is most first years went from HS to undergrad to law school and are 25 without ever having a real job of any kind, then get thrown into an extremely demanding job with 10+ hour days, which is a lot to deal with on top of being useless. 

Describes the IT world.

 

People coming out of college for the most part are pretty useless but they've been told if they pick this track they'll start at 80-125k a year, so that's what they want.

 

Some can get it because they're good. Some can get it because they go to work for someone who needs bodies, or specifically bodies that can get a clearance (DOD, DHS, etc.) But many don't and get upset.

[PF Chang]

17 hours ago, brandymac27 said:

I couldn't agree more. Colleges are businesses like you said. I think as parents, we have to be able to do the research on schools our kids are interested in going to, but also in explaining the financial consequences of going to school if they aren't that serious about going to to begin with. 

 

Some kids just aren't cut out for college, or just honestly don't want to go. I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging them to take a different path. IMO, that's better than pushing them to acquire massive debt for something they aren't happy doing.

 

Agreed. Looking back I think my post was harsh, it's just I have a lot of friends who are struggling with debt. That being said it's hard to deny what No Excuses said about being left behind.

 

I'm a CPA, a career that basically defines Boring But Comfortable and repayment still sucked for me. I could have chosen a much cheaper school but wanted to go with my friends and had the "it will all work out, whatever" mentality. You're probably ahead of the curve just by thinking about it, looking back I know my approach wasn't serious or smart.

[Popeman38]

I graduated from HS with pretty good grades, started college at NVCC and it didn't take.  Joined the Army and opted for the college fund over cash bonus at enlistment. Did 8 years in the Army (9/11 happened while I was in), got out and got a pretty damn good job for a 27 year old with no degree.  Used Post-9/11 GI Bill and college fund to graduate with a BBA and made money (that NOVA BAH is amazing!!!). Now, it about killed me to do school full time while working full time with a family. But I'm done now, and will soon be moving to a new job...

[Jumbo]

i should add that advanced degrees are absolutely necessary if one wishes to have a career in internet moderating

[mcsluggo]

22 hours ago, twa said:

Is 58 too late to go to college?

Can't really decide what field to go for.

 

22 hours ago, twa said:

I was thinking a law degree since I already know it all and it is the path to politics  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are in the right ballpark........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[twa]

Maybe a economics major would be better ?

[tshile]

15 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Now, it about killed me to do school full time while working full time with a family.

 

Yes... because I couldn’t grow up at 18 when you’re supposed to, I also wound up doing full time school while full time working. 

 

At at one point in time I was waiting tables, working part time/intern programming job, and taking 6 classes at two different nvcc campuses. My jobs were near each other but from job to campus was an hour (on a good day) and the two campuses were an hour apart (because I made the trip during rush hour.) getting off work at 2 driving an hour into Alexandria to sit in class then an hour home to wait tables while trying to impress my boss at the internship to get a full time job while getting straight A’s and not losing my job as a waiter was challenging (all of which I did.) Thank god it was under grad asssociate level coursework because my senior level undergrad work at mason would have killed me. 

 

That was was a very challenging and trying time in my life. I also had a serious relationship to work on and a house I purchased that had to be gutted and remodeled. 

 

While putting myself in that position is one of the more embarrassing things in my life (my failure at college I didn’t have to pay for...) getting through it is something in proud of. And it’s definitely defined me so far through the rest of my life. It led to my career, my wife, and making a ton of money selling that house and now building a dream house. 

 

You can do the whole college thing later in life. But doing it before you’re trying to get a serious job and have started a family is significantly easier. 

[mcsluggo]

18 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I think my post was less than clear.  When I say "If you don't know why you are there, then you shouldn't be there" I don't mean you have to know going in what your major will be and what career you want to pursue.  I think less than 25% do.  If you go with an open mind just to "do college" because you think college is the logical next step or to experience a bunch of different majors/options/fields and, whatever you want to be, you are pretty sure it will require a degree, then that is a fine reason to go to college.  

 

If you are there to 1) defer 4 years of your life because you are just lost or 2) only going because of social/parental pressure and don't really want to be there or 3) do drugs and skip class, then you shouldn't be there.  

 

HALF of my freshman dorm failed out.  1 out of every 2.  They drank and did drugs and didn't go to class.  WHICH IS FINE, but you can do that without paying tuition.  

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year#United_States_of_America

 

Gap years are gaining steam in the US, obvious mostly among rich people's kids.  One of my biggest regrets in life was not taking a gap year and going on some crazy adventure overseas.  

 

I have a pretty had time distinguishing between the Red and the green above, honestly.... 

 

 

and for yellow... how much student debt did they accumulate in 3 months???  and, if it is anything other than "relatively little" ... then we switch discussion a little bit to the predatory lenders discussion.

 

 

 

 

finally.... purple  I am starting to think that a mandatory draft  (with a wide range of what "military service" in that case means: civil works, social works, etc...) discussion warrants another discussion by society.   There is MANY advantages i see.  Forced "mixing" of dissimilar backgrounds, a mini "grow-up" period for young adults, who are frankly less adult like than 18 year-olds were expected to be 75 years ago, a good opportunity for real social-works (on infrastructure, and what not),  when we as a country ARE considering war... the entirety of the population is "invested" in the military (not just financially)   and more.... 

[Jumbo]

i figured it would my task easier if i abandoned my wife and kids at the time...also figured it would make my first opportunity for dating in a college environment to go more smoothly...right on both counts...the one kid was kinda cool though...

[PleaseBlitz]

35 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

I have a pretty had time distinguishing between the Red and the green above, honestly.... 

 

In a nutshell, if you go to college to figure out who you want to be, then that's okay.  If you go to college because you couldn't think of something better to do, then that's not very smart.  

 

35 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

and for yellow... how much student debt did they accumulate in 3 months???  and, if it is anything other than "relatively little" ... then we switch discussion a little bit to the predatory lenders discussion.

 

I have no idea.  I don't think it's predatory for a four-year state school to admit someone who did relatively well in HS, then that person makes the choice to not go to class.  

 

35 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 

finally.... purple  I am starting to think that a mandatory draft  (with a wide range of what "military service" in that case means: civil works, social works, etc...) discussion warrants another discussion by society.   There is MANY advantages i see.  Forced "mixing" of dissimilar backgrounds, a mini "grow-up" period for young adults, who are frankly less adult like than 18 year-olds were expected to be 75 years ago, a good opportunity for real social-works (on infrastructure, and what not),  when we as a country ARE considering war... the entirety of the population is "invested" in the military (not just financially)   and more.... 

 

Yikes.  

[mcsluggo]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 

 

 

I have no idea.  I don't think it's predatory for a four-year state school to admit someone who did relatively well in HS, then that person makes the choice to not go to class.  

 

 

 

i don't think it is predatory to admit a student.   But in 3 months (of a 4-5 year expected lending environment) you should NOT be able to rack of THAT much debt... under a NORMAL banking environment

 

 

 

 

   

[Riggo-toni]

Meet John. John has a bachelor's degree in engineering. He always asks "How does it work?"

 

Meet Doug. Doug has a master's degree in physics. He often asks "Why does it work?"

 

Meet Tim. Tim speaks 5 languages and has a PhD in philosophy. Tim usually asks "Would you like fries with that?"

[purbeast]

My son is only 3 right now but I've already told my wife that we are not "making" him go to college.  I am of the mindset that college simply is not for everyone.

 

I went to college because that is just what I was supposed to do.  I only applied to UMD.  I nearly dropped out after my freshman too, but in hindsight I'm EXTREMELY grateful that I buckled down and did not, because I'd be nowhere near where I am in my career had I not gone to school.

 

That said, pretty much everyone else I know other than my sister, who went to school, doesn't even use their degree.  My brother went to UMD and is now a firefighter, as are 2 other guys I know who went to Frostburg.  Everyone else I know who went to Frostburg aren't using their degrees.

 

My wife wants our son to go to college because she never did and she wants him to be educated.  My wife also makes more money than my sister does, and she has a 4 year degree from Salisbury and is working in her field.

 

But if my son wants to go to college to get a degree in Arts or some general thing, then he can go to community college to get that done.  If he has interest in science or follows my steps in computer science, then I would want him to go to a better school that focuses in it.  But if he wants to be a chef or a plumber, there is no need to waste money on college.  As someone else mentioned though, knowing what you want to do at the age of 18 is pretty tough.

[mcsluggo]

1 hour ago, twa said:

Maybe a economics major would be better ?

 

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 

 

 

 

finally.... purple  I am starting to think that a mandatory draft  (with a wide range of what "military service" in that case means: civil works, social works, etc...) discussion warrants another discussion by society.   There is MANY advantages i see.  Forced "mixing" of dissimilar backgrounds, a mini "grow-up" period for young adults, who are frankly less adult like than 18 year-olds were expected to be 75 years ago, a good opportunity for real social-works (on infrastructure, and what not),  when we as a country ARE considering war... the entirety of the population is "invested" in the military (not just financially)   and more.... 

 

While I like the thought, what about people that know or are already on a career path?