Kenny Mayne: Dear Fellow White People: Or should I have said ‘Caucasian’?

[Bozo the kKklown]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Stop assuming I'm lying because you don't agree with me, I did read it, I posted the very last two lines, which was him saying he was right. You've gone too far, this is too far, this will not work.  Whatever you want from this you will not get it.

ok

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

ok

 

You're not helping, if that's your goal.  If you still think I didn't read it, that's just you outsmarting yourself.

[Zguy28]

If our culture is defined by "whiteness" (or white ways?), what do you want? You want to be treated equally right? Is it a primarily economic-based solution? Whites generally see a black man and (depending on dress/style/look, whatever, I think) and assume bad things. That is rooted in economics because crime is higher in lower-income (especially urban) communities. And minorities have primarily been lower income (a lingering effect of slavery (black) and late immigration (Asian/Hispanic) & European colonization), so whites associate them all with crime... unless you dress/act white? (is that a thing?)

 

Then I hear about "not losing the black culture". What does that mean to black people? Because to most white people when they hear that it means bad things. Is black culture too linked to low-income culture?

 

It's like a chicken/egg thing with solving cultural incompatibility, then economic inequality, but economics perpetuates the negative stereotypes because of crime rates, ugh. I truly believe that blacks are treated unfairly and unjustly by our culture in many areas without whites realizing it. All we can see is with eyes of fear. And I have no idea on how to reconcile it. Somebody mentioned earlier interracial breeding (in more crude terms though). As weird as it sounds, maybe there is truth to this? Move toward one blended race?

 

Sincerely,

a white man who has no idea how to solve this issue other than loving my neighbor no matter the color.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

17 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Benefiting from a system you had zero role in creating doesn’t make you a coward or a racist, it makes you human.

 

 

 

 

Failing to acknowledge it makes you a moral coward.

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Zguy28 said:

If our culture is defined by "whiteness" (or white ways?), what do you want? You want to be treated equally right? Is it a primarily economic-based solution? Whites generally see a black man and (depending on dress/style/look, whatever, I think) and assume bad things. That is rooted in economics because crime is higher in lower-income (especially urban) communities. And minorities have primarily been lower income (a lingering effect of slavery (black) and late immigration (Asian/Hispanic) & European colonization), so whites associate them all with crime... unless you dress/act white? (is that a thing?)

 

 

 

Ah, the ever popular Marxist lens.

 

Racism in America is not created by economics. Economic conditions in America are created largely by race, not the reverse. Ghettos in America exist because that was literally the only place minorities could live in many places. You crowd poor people into small areas, and you create crime. Crime lowers property values. Low property values invite slum lords. Slum lords rent to those who literally have no other options. And the cycle perpetuates itself.

 

 

[Zguy28]

26 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Ah, the ever popular Marxist lens.

 

Racism in America is not created by economics. Economic conditions in America are created largely by race, not the reverse. Ghettos in America exist because that was literally the only place minorities could live in many places. You crowd poor people into small areas, and you create crime. Crime lowers property values. Low property values invite slum lords. Slum lords rent to those who literally have no other options. And the cycle perpetuates itself.

 

 

I wasn't trying to associate anything with Marxism, capitalism or otherwise. Just searching for an answer to it in the real world. Are economic conditions largely created by race still today or is that mostly a thing of the past that still has large effect? How do we break the cycle? How do we craft a solution that the white majority approves of?

[Renegade7]

@Zguy28 Can start with stopping the concentration of hud and section 8 housing and devote MORE resources to failing schools instead of equal to try to be fair.  Race has more to do with it when your talking about policies that affect concentrations of a particular race.  You take anyone from any race and put them in an environment where success is more likely success will be more likely.  HUD and section 8 housing should be put in school districts with better performing schools, we have to kill all leftover policies designed to keep like groups in like places because these like places are not equal, they were never meant to be.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

There are good legitimate reasons for concentrating low income housing near the city centers... im not really seeing how that will help. How would that help? Trailer parks seem to House a lot of white people in need of assistance... but they weren’t built to keep in the white folk. In fact, there are more white people receiving assistance than black; percentage wise. People self segregate. That’s not “the man” keeping  a race down...

  

 

“Better performing schools” is based on standardized tests that are given to students. If you put poor test performing students in a “better performing school” the schools performance will go down.

 

[grego]

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Zguy28 Can start with stopping the concentration of hud and section 8 housing and devote MORE resources to failing schools instead of equal to try to be fair.  Race has more to do with it when your talking about policies that affect concentrations of a particular race.  You take anyone from any race and put them in an environment where success is more likely success will be more likely.  HUD and section 8 housing should be put in school districts with better performing schools, we have to kill all leftover policies designed to keep like groups in like places because these like places are not equal, they were never meant to be.

 

renegade, are you familiar with roland fryers study on schools and what makes them successful, or geoffrey canadas harlem childrens zone?

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

There are good legitimate reasons for concentrating low income housing near the city centers... im not really seeing how that will help. How would that help? Trailer parks seem to House a lot of white people in need of assistance... but they weren’t built to keep in the white folk. In fact, there are more white people receiving assistance than black; percentage wise. People self segregate. That’s not “the man” keeping  a race down...

  

 

“Better performing schools” is based on standardized tests that are given to students. If you put poor test performing students in a “better performing school” the schools performance will go down.

 

 

When you have a school full of poor students with not enough resources to make up for it, the results correlate to lower scores.  This happens to all races, white people, too, jus look at Kansas. 

 

Studies have been done in regards to the inner city that it's not self-segregation, there's limited affordable housing and we're keeping all the poorer people in the same neighborhood's with high crime and wondering why we get the same results.  Putting poorer students in better schools is the root of this school choice initiative, it works, but it's a bandaid, not a solution. 

 

What do you think works better for someone, being in a room full of students who don't get it, or a room where only a few don't get it?  It's why I support on campus over online class, being in class allows for it being easier for students to help each other.  If someone poor starts in a good school from getgo, they will score better.  

 

The real problem is poor people inn poor schools, we have to do a better job of mixing the students body and allocate more resources to failing schools, not equal resources to those performing the best.  

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, grego said:

 

renegade, are you familiar with roland fryers study on schools and what makes them successful, or geoffrey canadas harlem childrens zone?

No, but I'll look more into them ehen I get out.  I saw one roland''s paper's on charter schools, believe we raked about it, his conclusion was we should take what's working in charter schools and add them to failing public schools instead of jus replacing them all with charter schools.  The charter school thing is jus another attempt for private sector to make money and not be told what to do with it, government had less control over charter schools, like teacher pay

[grego]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

No, but I'll look more into them ehen I get out.  I saw one roland''s paper's on charter schools, believe we raked about it, his conclusion was we should take what's working in charter schools and add them to failing public schools instead of jus replacing them all with charter schools.  The charter school thing is jus another attempt for private sector to make money and not be told what to do with it, government had less control over charter schools, like teacher pay

 

ya thats basically it.(although i'm not opposed to charter schools that work, or school choice if you live in an area where the schools arent very good.) here's a talk about it when you get an hour or so. really interesting stuff. 

 

 

 

btw- he talks about school funding around the 14 minute mark, and what he finds is a little surprising.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

When you have a school full of poor students with not enough resources to make up for it, the results correlate to lower scores.  This happens to all races, white people, too, jus look at Kansas. 

 

Studies have been done in regards to the inner city that it's not self-segregation, there's limited affordable housing and we're keeping all the poorer people in the same neighborhood's with high crime and wondering why we get the same results.  Putting poorer students in better schools is the root of this school choice initiative, it works, but it's a bandaid, not a solution. 

 

What do you think works better for someone, being in a room full of students who don't get it, or a room where only a few don't get it?  It's why I support on campus over online class, being in class allows for it being easier for students to help each other.  If someone poor starts in a good school from getgo, they will score better.  

 

The real problem is poor people inn poor schools, we have to do a better job of mixing the students body and allocate more resources to failing schools, not equal resources to those performing the best.  

 In Norfolk, va they used to have a program that bussed poor students to rich neighborhoods and vice versa in order to improve school integration

 

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.com/news/article_05745bcd-a24e-5d1d-9c5c-ce22313d963d.amp.html

 

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 In Norfolk, va they used to have a program that bussed poor students to rich neighborhoods and vice versa in order to improve school integration

 

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.com/news/article_05745bcd-a24e-5d1d-9c5c-ce22313d963d.amp.html

 

That was 60 years ago, ehy are uou posting that?  You won't get it if you look at this as racial integration instead of mixing income levels.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That was 60 years ago, ehy are uou posting that?  You won't get it if you look at this as racial integration instead of mixing income levels.

 

 

It was done up until 2001. The effect was that  while it improved the test scores of the integrated blacks initially, privelaged people ended up moving to different schools because they had options, where as the poor didn’t and therefore segregation increased again, resulting in lower test scores.. they abandoned it in 2001

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

It was done up until 2001. The affect was that  while it improved the test scores of the integrated blacks initially, privelaged people ended up moving two different schools because they had options, where as the poor didn’t and therefore segregation increased again, resulting in lower test scores.. they abandoned it in 2001

 

Whites had an exodus of leaving cities during this time frame for many reasons, like suburbs having more space.  We're seeing the reverse now because of many reasons, like rediculous commutes. 

 

I didn't say bus rich kids to bad schools and poor kids to good schools, I said poor people getting government housing should have their homes in better school districts.  Having them all in the same place was intentional and never meant to work in their best interests. 

 

Norfolk isn't dc, but watch what happens when clear out those projects next to McArthur mall.  Schools in DC are improving in some cases because more of student body is middle upper class instead of poverty.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

If you tear down all the places where poor people live, and put middle to upper income housing there instead, yeah, I guess test scores will improve... doesn’t help the poor people though.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

If you tear down all the places where poor people live, and put middle to upper income housing there instead, yeah, I guess test scores will improve... doesn’t help the poor people though.

 

It depends.  If section 8 housing is put in better neighborhoods, yes, it will help.  In DC, you'd think all the black people would be going to Pg, not no, a lot are ending up in Fairfax and Prince William county, those are much better school districts on average compared to dcps.  I never said they should tear down all the poor people housing, they should protect affordable housing so you get more of a mix throughout the city.  

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Im racist. I judge strangers the second I see them and put them into a certain box. I have maybe a 100 boxes. Skin color is a part of it. So is gender, time of day, part of town I am in, clothing, their height, weight, their walk ... everything is taken into account. I try to identify it when I can but I believe a good bit of it is unconscious thought process. Unfortunately, if I see a black male larger than me dressed with his pants hanging down, I put him a "thug" box. That same blakc male stops and asks me for directions in a french accent, now he gets put in a "better" box. That guy is now "off code" for me, exception to my rule. I see a skinny white guy in dirty clothes and scabs all over his body walking baltimore city, I put him in the "junky dont have your back to him" box. I see a skinny crack head female, I first think it must cost $5 for a bj then think how gross and diseased that would be. 

 

Im a guy. Im a human. Humans and guys are gross despicable people. We just do such a good job of keeping our inner thoughts inner and hiding what goes on upstairs.  

 

Imo, everyone is racist or prejudicial or judges others based on their demographic. Whites, asians, ethiopians and indians enjoy a positive presumption (in my brain/world). Street looking black males get put in the a negative presumption box. Honestly not sure where I put the professional looking black person. I think I put them in a very high box bc they achieved success despite the obstacles of black prejudice and racism in corporate america. I think i put them i a box higher than me. My perception is that i didnt have to work as hard as they did to get to relatively same place in our careers. This is all just my perception. I realize each person has their own story and can never accurately be categorized. But this is how my brain works .. I think. I dont pretend to fully understand my brain or himan nature in general.  

 

Rambling at this point. 

 

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

 

edit - I dont want any more Sec 8 in my neighborhood. The problem houses/families are all section 8 who steal my stuff and my daughters stuff and have their 2 year olds in **** weighed down diapers wondering in the street are sec 8. I moved out the city to get away from bad neighbors. 

 

  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@Why am I Mr. Pink? 

 

To be honest, I think most of what you described isn't racism. I think that's more of the inherent stereotypes that are instinctual and used all around the globe, even by animals. Our instinct is to notice and stereotype what we see and hear. 

 

If you got to know the big black dude or the crackhead guy, found out they was a good guys, but still wouldn't socialize with them...that's getting closer to something that's intentional and less forgivable. Simply having an initial thought or assumption about someone based on how they dress or look or act isn't necessarily bad or harmful. 

 

I'm a 5'9" 170 pound white guy. I'm a clean-cut father of 2. I absolutely expect people to draw certain conclusions about me when I'm sitting and having ice cream with my two kids. If I grew a long beard, got a bunch of tattoos/piercings, dressed in over-sized clothes, and just sat on a street corner I could be the exact same person but would again expect people to draw a completely different set of conclusions about me. 

[Fresh8686]

@Why am I Mr. Pink?

 

Yea, that's more racial prejudice than being a racist since you don't seem to be displaying the added twist of a blanket superiority/inferiority dynamic based on race.

Thanks for being honest with your thought process by the way. I don't know if people realize it, but what we call human nature changes based on how we train and develop ourselves. We can re-wire our associations so we for instance focus on body language and facial cues rather than skin color. I had to do it myself, because I used to have a prejudice towards preppy looking white guys for instance, until I trained myself to focus on the core determinants of character and attitude rather than the ornamentation of dress or skin color.

In my efforts to practice and improve how I jump to conclusions, I realized that there were actions I could take or not take in the gap between reaction and coming to a conclusion, which I'd then try to do as many times as I could during my day, while fitting in as many steps as possible. It's a cool little training regimen and it saved my life in a way when I had to deal with the pressures of trauma and debilitating physical pain for months on end.

No steps (purely reactionary)
1 step (reflection)
2 steps (drawing on previous experience/history)
3 steps (what else is out there?)
4 steps (self challenge: does my conclusion hold up when I try to poke holes into it?)
5 steps (stopping short of certainty, allowing for the possibility of greater nuance)

[NoCalMike]

Prejudice & Racism are two different things.

 

Everyone has prejudices. Those are completely natural.  You see a chick with pink hair and covered in tattoos you tend to think.......whatever.  Then you get to know her via conversation and you realized you were wrong.  That is an example of prejudice.

 

Racism is a much more complex thing and has much more to it then simply "I hate "insert race here" "  although it has largely been reduced to that on cable news outlets. 

[LD0506]

Filed under "So many white people are assholes"

 

 

[tshile]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Prejudice & Racism are two different things.

 

And not all judging is prejudice. And there's nothing wrong with judging. The highest authority in our country is a judge. Humans wouldn't make it if they couldn't make judgement of the world around them.

 

It's about the types of judgement you make, why you make them, and what you do with them.

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Prejudice & Racism are two different things.

 

Everyone has prejudices. Those are completely natural.  You see a chick with pink hair and covered in tattoos you tend to think.......whatever.  Then you get to know her via conversation and you realized you were wrong.  That is an example of prejudice.

 

Racism is a much more complex thing and has much more to it then simply "I hate "insert race here" "  although it has largely been reduced to that on cable news outlets. 

 

You hit on something that I completely whiffed on earlier...I simplified racism and you're 100% correct. Great post, btw.