Kenny Mayne: Dear Fellow White People: Or should I have said ‘Caucasian’?

[Xameil]

5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Let’s say someone was a burned-out, kinda angry teacher that couldn’t reach their students...

 

Would they whine about it and blame the kids or would they work their ass of and take full advantage of the opportunities?

Let's see... 50% of them would realize they have tenure, know their safe from ever losing their job and just show up for work...do the minimum and cash their check...25% may actually try and reach their kids..the other 25% leave...?

 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Let’s say someone was a burned-out, kinda angry teacher that couldn’t reach their students...

 

Would they whine about it and blame the kids or would they work their ass of and take full advantage of the opportunities?

They'd whine about it and it would be nearly impossible to fire them. 

 

That said "couldn't reach students" seems like a silly way of measuring teachers.  Teachers shouldn't be expected to convince students to want to pass the class.  That's a parents job. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

21 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Its a terrible stereotype that keeps being perpetuated by people who have it in their best interest to demonize black people. It's really that.the current president does that, but that also comes from media perceptions and with a lot of these conglomerates having investments in private prisons, it wont end

 

 

Yea, it’s mostly black people doing it though. Black talking heads on tv talking about how unfair the system is...  Donald Trump hasn’t demonized black people... he had his one African American and said the Nazis were fine folk, but he didn’t call black people rapists and murderers. Mostly he talks about how low black unemployment is....

 

On the other hand, a fruit like Al Sharpton has perpetually spread the stereotype of a poor black man in prison... 

 

 

[PeterMP]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/nyregion/it-turns-out-spending-more-probably-does-improve-education.html

 

"It Turns Out Spending More Probably Does Improve Education"

 

In general, people and especially children, aren't rational entities.  Treating them like they are is doomed to fail.  Children need people to tell them and show them that they are important, they can succeed, and their success is important (to us as a society, to people individually, and to them).

 

(Mr. Rogers was right.)  Yes, with public educational opportunities (today online and at the local library), if kids were completely rational entities they could probably teach themselves everything they need to be successful without even having schools.  That would be an unbelievably stupid plan.

 

As a society, me measure worth and importance with money.

 

(Of course, some will ignore the facts and continue on with the strongly held beliefs and the next time this topic comes up spout the same wrong and stupid opinions.)

20 hours ago, Destino said:

They'd whine about it and it would be nearly impossible to fire them. 

 

That said "couldn't reach students" seems like a silly way of measuring teachers.  Teachers shouldn't be expected to convince students to want to pass the class.  That's a parents job. 

 

Right because it makes total sense as a society and a country where a kid that is born of parents that for whatever reason can't do a good job just to give up on that kid and likely doom them to living a life far less than their potential (and the corresponding drag that creates on our society).

 

vs identifying and paying a little more for teachers that are able to feel and communicate empathy and a sense of importance to kids so that they feel like they are valuable and their future success is not just possible, but important.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Right because it makes total sense as a society and a country where a kid that is born of parents that for whatever reason can't do a good job just to give up on that kid and likely doom them to living a life far less than their potential (and the corresponding drag that creates on our society).

 

vs identifying and paying a little more for teachers that are able to feel and communicate empathy and a sense of importance to kids so that they feel like they are valuable and their future success is not just possible, but important.

Where did I say anything about giving up on kids?  Expecting teachers to succeed in capturing the imagination of problem students consistently isn’t a plan.  That’s a prayer.  The standard design of a public K-12 school isn’t intended to replace or repair the damage of bad parenting.  It’s designed to teach kids that show up and are mostly willing to follow instruction.  Add enough disruptive kids and the system starts to break down.  If we want to really help kids that, for a variety of reasons, are not ready to be in standard classes then we need more specialized programs.  

 

We also need parents to know, in no uncertain terms, that they’re expected to raise children that understand what respectful behavior is, what behavior is expected from them while in school, and are motivated enough to do their schoolwork.  They need to know schools do not exist to provide those things.  It sounds obvious, but I’d bet good money that there’s no shortage of people that react to their child’s misbehavior with accusations the teacher is not able to control their classrooms.  

[Gibbit]

My buddies wife is a teacher and shes been punched in the face....Shes been told if she doesn't give a passing grade she would be shot. This is in a predominately white school system with new schools every 10 miles it seems. These kids assaulting her are black.....almost her entire class is African American....she teaches in a technical center where they send kids that aren't doing well, for half the day, to learn a trade.

 

 

[Fresh8686]

18 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

My buddies wife is a teacher and shes been punched in the face....Shes been told if she doesn't give a passing grade she would be shot. This is in a predominately white school system with new schools every 10 miles it seems. These kids assaulting her are black.....almost her entire class is African American....she teaches in a technical center where they send kids that aren't doing well, for half the day, to learn a trade.

 

 

I'm sorry for the pain and stress of your friend's wife, but what exactly are you trying to say with this anecdote?

[Gibbit]

20 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I'm sorry for the pain and stress of your friend's wife, but what exactly are you trying to say with this anecdote?

that its not the classroom....its not the teachers...its not the money. These kids have the same opportunities as their white classmates, yet they don't take advantage.....

 

its the parents. 

 

There was a video of a mom recently catching her boy trying to do some masked rioting...she smacked the **** out of him and embarrassed him in front of the world 

 

You know the only reason Id try to do good in school and not be a ****head growing up? cause I was scared as **** of the beating id get from my dad if I ****ed up 

 

its not the only way to parent though.....beatings  encouragement and being extremely involved in your kids life is probably a lot better nowadays

 

but if they do dumb ****....smack the **** out of em

[Llevron]

You dont know what you are talking about. Again, crazy ignorant. Crazy wild ignorance, not even attempting to qualify this bull**** with any facts past "I saw this on the internet" yet you wonder why people cant do what you did as a kid. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

41 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

that its not the classroom....its not the teachers...its not the money. These kids have the same opportunities as their white classmates, yet they don't take advantage.....

 

its the parents.

Agree with the parents being a determining factor. It’s indisputable. The part about having the same opportunities as their white counterparts sure reads like some nonsense though. It’s not like black kids are the only ones who have ****ty parents.

[Gibbit]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Agree with the parents being a determining factor. It’s indisputable. The part about having the same opportunities as their white counterparts sure reads like some nonsense though. It’s not like black kids are the only ones who have ****ty parents.

if they are in the same school system, sitting in the desk right beside their white counterpart..... Why do you think there is nonsense?  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just now, Gibbit said:

if they are in the same school system, sitting in the desk right beside their white counterpart..... Why do you think there is nonsense?  

Because the insinuation is that race is a factor. It was cool when you just said it was the parents.

[Gibbit]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Because the insinuation is that race is a factor. It was cool when you just said it was the parents.

Well race is the thread.

 

Im saying what ive experienced...its all I can do.

 

but it all starts with parents teaching their kids to be good people....all parents 

[redskins59]

1 hour ago, Gibbit said:

My buddies wife is a teacher and shes been punched in the face....Shes been told if she doesn't give a passing grade she would be shot. This is in a predominately white school system with new schools every 10 miles it seems. These kids assaulting her are black.....almost her entire class is African American....she teaches in a technical center where they send kids that aren't doing well, for half the day, to learn a trade.

 

 

 

How do you know that she is telling the truth?  Could she be a liar?  Also, why is she discussing her students' race with somebody else?  

Tell me this teacher should not be teaching.

[Gibbit]

I work with her husband....shes called him crying a couple times and he told me after he was off the phone

 

I mean she is a tech teacher...she teaches a trade (not going into detail about her) And Im 99.99% sure she isn't lying about it

 

 

Anyways....she gets punched and threatened = fire her?  come on man 

troubled kids.....she pushes on

[TheGreatBuzz]

Its probably because all the black asian Hispanic  white students are cowards.  That's not racist, right?

[PeterMP]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

Where did I say anything about giving up on kids?  Expecting teachers to succeed in capturing the imagination of problem students consistently isn’t a plan.  That’s a prayer.  The standard design of a public K-12 school isn’t intended to replace or repair the damage of bad parenting.  It’s designed to teach kids that show up and are mostly willing to follow instruction.  Add enough disruptive kids and the system starts to break down.  If we want to really help kids that, for a variety of reasons, are not ready to be in standard classes then we need more specialized programs.  

 

We also need parents to know, in no uncertain terms, that they’re expected to raise children that understand what respectful behavior is, what behavior is expected from them while in school, and are motivated enough to do their schoolwork.  They need to know schools do not exist to provide those things.  It sounds obvious, but I’d bet good money that there’s no shortage of people that react to their child’s misbehavior with accusations the teacher is not able to control their classrooms.  

 

Well, if teachers are taking the attitude that they can't and shouldn't do anything for kids that have problems in their home lives, then you've essentially given up on those kids.

 

The fundamental problem is that some parents aren't going to do a good job (some times), and there isn't much I can do about that, and I'm not sure how to go about doing something about it.

 

As a society, the best and easiest way to fill that gap is schools.  Now, if you want to say, we need to re-think parts of our education system that's fine, but those people in those roles are still going to be teachers.  Do we need to give teachers more support and better tools in many cases?  Yes, but no matter what the system is our best hope in many cases is going to be teachers.

 

To simply say it is on the parents, isn't realistic.  Will teachers succeed every time with every kid that has parents that for some reason aren't/can't do the job?  No.

 

But we need a system and people that consistently try.  Not that look for excuses.

 

I'll tell a story here.  I've written before about my parents experience in adopting and fostering.  One of the kids they ended up fostering a 5th grader.  Mother's a drug addict.  Father is completely absent (lived on the otherside of the country).  Mother would send the kid to school with dirty clothes.  The teachers started a rotation to collect the kids dirty clothes and wash them.

 

I know all of the parents in my school district aren't can't/won't do the job they should.  I want teachers in my school district to be like that.  Not, well kid isn't getting what they want at home.  It isn't my problem.

 

And I'm happy to pay them more for that attitude.

[Gibbit]

teachers to be parents?

 

Why don't you just go ask the teacher which kid needs a parent and you do it? then you don't have to pay extra

[PeterMP]

17 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

teachers to be parents?

 

Why don't you just go ask the teacher which kid needs a parent and you do it? then you don't have to pay extra

 

Because I can't legally be a parent to a kid that has a parent, and I don't know the kids to have a relationship with them to begin with.

 

(I can and do things in my community to try and help parents and kids that are struggling, but even so, there's only so much I can do, especially with kids that I don't know.)

[Gibbit]

yeah I just think a teacher that took on that role...year in and year out...for however many kids...for what they are paid would have to be mother Theresa.

Mentor? sure, but you cant expect them to take place of a parent

 

 

[PeterMP]

5 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

yeah I just think a teacher that took on that role...year in and year out...for however many kids...for what they are paid would have to be mother Theresa.

 

 

 

Some people for at least some periods of time are going to be bad parents.  We need people to fill in the gaps.  Since teachers are with the kids every day, have relationships with them, and many times have some idea of the home situation anyway and a way to connect with the kid (e.g. have had their siblings in the past etc.), it makes sense for them to play an important role in the process.

 

Now, we do some things and have to do more to help kids in these situations (e.g. social workers, guidance counselors, charities, mentoring programs, foster parents, etc.).  But to act like it doesn't make sense for teachers to play an important role doesn't make sense.

[PeterMP]

I live in a pretty much middle class school district.  Some people have money, but some people are also leaving beyond their means and struggling, and there are some areas that are geared for more lower income families (apartments).  There are involved parents, and there are non-involved parents.  I'm sure there are parents that are struggling with issues whether it is economics, drugs, or illnesses (my daughter's one friend's father is in prison).  There are a lot of high achieving kids, but there are a lot of not so high achieving kids.

 

If you give me a choice between a teacher that is outstanding in their field and even does an excellent job of explaining concepts, but at the end of the day doesn't care about the students as people and says, 'Hey, I did my job.  If they didn't learn, it isn't on me.'

 

Or a teacher that isn't as good as those things, but has a high emotional IQ and can feel and communicate empathy for the students and make them understand they are important and people care about them, I'm taking that teacher 10 times out of 10.  In totality, that teachers students are going to do better.

[NoCalMike]

Awful parents should equal the teachers/school getting more resources, not less.

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

If you give me a choice between a teacher that is outstanding in their field and even does an excellent job of explaining concepts, but at the end of the day doesn't care about the students as people and says, 'Hey, I did my job.  If they didn't learn, it isn't on me.'

 

Or a teacher that isn't as good as those things, but has a high emotional IQ and can feel and communicate empathy for the students and make them understand they are important and people care about them, I'm taking that teacher 10 times out of 10.  In totality, that teachers students are going to do better.

 

There's also the issue of so many kids being stimulated and learning in different ways.  When you have a class of 30+ kids it becomes nearly impossible to give the ones who need the extra guidance, the extra guidance.

[Gibbit]

yeah I guess it depends on the kids attitude also. Once they get into those teen years.....

 

elementary school, I can see it happening 

[Destino]

 

Quote

But we need a system and people that consistently try.  Not that look for excuses.

 

I'll tell a story here.  I've written before about my parents experience in adopting and fostering.  One of the kids they ended up fostering a 5th grader.  Mother's a drug addict.  Father is completely absent (lived on the otherside of the country).  Mother would send the kid to school with dirty clothes.  The teachers started a rotation to collect the kids dirty clothes and wash them.

 

I know all of the parents in my school district aren't can't/won't do the job they should.  I want teachers in my school district to be like that.  Not, well kid isn't getting what they want at home.  It isn't my problem.

 

And I'm happy to pay them more for that attitude.

I agree entirely with this sentiment Peter though I will point out that's not the type of student problem I was discussing.  Any adult that personally knows a child that needs a little help, should help them.  That's just common decency as far as I'm concerned.

 

The kids I'm talking about are disruptive and get into trouble.  Those are the kids that our system isn't equipped to handle and too often sends right into the criminal justice system.  They need to be helped by people qualified to do so using methods that have a chance of actually working.  Sending them to the bad kid school where they're treated worse just speeds their journey to a prison cell.  Teachers in standard classroom setting do not have the time to do that and teach the other 20+ kids a lesson before the bell rings. 

 

US schools could also help kids by clearly defining what acceptable behavior in the classroom means and consistently applying it K-12.  Right now it seems to vary wildly between schools and teachers.  Consistently and clarity helps kids and reduces subjectivity that allows personal bias to harm come kids more than others.