Kenny Mayne: Dear Fellow White People: Or should I have said ‘Caucasian’?

[Bozo the kKklown]

Adam Sewer with another obvious but correct article.

 

An excerpt:

Quote

The framing of the piece illustrates how the American discourse concerning racism remains largely about hurt feelings, rather than discriminatory policy: Some people said Obama acknowledging racism was racist, and also some people don’t like that Trump is called racist. This ostensibly neutral framing is centered around a white audience more concerned with being called racist than facing racial discrimination, and one that experiences racism as naughty words rather than as policies that affect whether and how people live their lives. This is why the cancellation of a sitcom about a Trump supporting white working-class family draws more press coverage than the fact that the aftermath of Hurricane Maria may have caused almost twice as many American casualties as the 9/11 terrorist attacks, a national trauma so harrowing it continues to shape American politics almost two decades later.

 

There is no mention in the piece of the Trump administration’s handling of Maria at all, nor the the hundreds of thousands of Americans displaced by it. There’s no discussion of the hundreds of thousands of immigrants in the United States, largely from nonwhite countries, whose legal statuses have been revoked even though they have no criminal records and pose no public-safety threat. The recent controversy over a newly instituted policy of separating parents and children at the border makes no appearance. The president’s travel ban, instituted after a campaign in which he expressed the desire to ban Muslims from the country, goes unmentioned. The decision of Trump’s attorney general, Jeff Sessions, to forgo all oversight of discriminatory policing by local law enforcement is undiscussed. Instead Trump’s successful attempt to force the NFL to suppress criticism of racist policing by black athletes is described as Trump having “ignored or rejected the racial tensions at the core of some high-profile, combustible public issues.” Describing a situation in which the president deliberately seized (according to the Times’ own reporting) on a controversy over unequal treatment of black Americans for political advantage as having “ignored” or “rejected” racial tensions is bizarre—but it’s also false.

 

 

 

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[Destino]

I get so frustrated reading about immigrants in the news, where it seems to come up everyday now, because I can't help but ask where the hell this sudden interest was before Trump?  Why are the dreamers still living one temporary reprieve after another?  200,000 El Salvadorians lost their TPS, but why were they still living under a temporary protected status after 17 damn years?  I can't help but see that these vulnerable populations are being used as pawns.  Welcomed, but only so far as second class status.  Always temporary, always at risk and as such always politically useful.  One party offers insults, the other betrayals.  Lives to be bargained with.  

 

I don't think Donald Trump and his supporters are the only ones that see Puerto Rican's as something other (lesser) than Americans either.  The lack of press coverage is tied to the public interest.  Tied to clicks.  To ratings.  To ad revenue.  The fact that it's barely getting coverage speaks to a national attitude for the island of American citizens, not just the one coming from the White House.  

 

I agree with the idea that racism needs to be looked at as a problem in need of solutions, and not as a dirty word or insult.  It's a real problem.  As bad as it might feel to be called a racist, being harmed by racism is infinitely worse.  We know it's happening, we can see how it's impacting huge segments of the population, and its damned foolish to be more focused on hurt feelings.  None of this post is meant to deny this problem, I just get so angry about the previously mentioned stuff.  It's exhausting.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I don’t think keeping people from entering the country illegally or removing temporary exceptions to existing immigration laws is racist.

 

 

Immigrants have traditionally been treated poorly in America, regardless of their race.

 

 

If anyone actually cared about the daca kids or any illegal immigrants, they had a chance to make all these temporary exceptions permanent, but they didn’t.

 

Peurto Rico isn’t a state. It was poorly managed, bankrupt.. the power company stopped working because it wasn’t getting paid. That’s not the federal governments fault....  

[NoCalMike]

I agree that the immigration issue overall is messy.  As a liberal, I am in no way against controlling our borders/border security going forward.  However I also want a real solution for the folks who are already here. The ones who have been a productive part of society.  

 

It seems like the gov't can never get together and agree on a solution to both at once, so they bicker back and forth about one aspect of the issue for political points.

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

12 minutes ago, Destino said:

I get so frustrated reading about immigrants in the news, where it seems to come up everyday now, because I can't help but ask where the hell this sudden interest was before Trump?  Why are the dreamers still living one temporary reprieve after another?  200,000 El Salvadorians lost their TPS, but why were they still living under a temporary protected status after 17 damn years?  I can't help but see that these vulnerable populations are being used as pawns.  Welcomed, but only so far as second class status.  Always temporary, always at risk and as such always politically useful.  One party offers insults, the other betrayals.  Lives to be bargained with.  

agree with you, a million percent., and I know you acknowledged it later in your post but its one sentence in the article.

 

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think keeping people from entering the country illegally or removing temporary exceptions to existing immigration laws is racist.

 

 

Immigrants have traditionally been treated poorly in America, regardless of their race.

 

 

If anyone actually cared about the daca kids or any illegal immigrants, they had a chance to make all these temporary exceptions permanent, but they didn’t.

 

Peurto Rico isn’t a state. It was poorly managed, bankrupt.. the power company stopped working because it wasn’t getting paid. That’s not the federal governments fault....  

the right wing playbook right here. nitpick and make that the issue 

[LD0506]

36 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Peurto (sic) Rico isn’t a state. It was poorly managed, bankrupt.. the power company stopped working because it wasn’t getting paid. That’s not the federal governments fault....  

 

Puerto Rico is a ****ing colony, they have no control over themselves, and so the power that seized control and holds it also bears responsibility for what happens there.

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I’m not sure what you mean, @BenningRoadSkin

 

 

what am I nitpicking?

 

and holds it also bears responsibility for what happens there.

 

yea, some, but not most.

[Gamebreaker]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think keeping people from entering the country illegally or removing temporary exceptions to existing immigration laws is racist.

 

 

Immigrants have traditionally been treated poorly in America, regardless of their race.

 

 

If anyone actually cared about the daca kids or any illegal immigrants, they had a chance to make all these temporary exceptions permanent, but they didn’t.

 

Peurto Rico isn’t a state. It was poorly managed, bankrupt.. the power company stopped working because it wasn’t getting paid. That’s not the federal governments fault....  

 

This doesn't hold water when ICE isn't kicking down doors of people who came here from Europe. 

 

Also, if you own a territory, you take responsibility for it. The state of Puerto Rico and the MSM's lack of care is pathetic and disgusting. Everyone knew the numbers of dead reported initially was BS and yet no one was willing to admit it. 

[Destino]

Puerto Rico being a state is entirely irrelevant. What it comes down to is pretty obvious, Americans don't see Puerto Rican's as real Americans.  They see Puerto Rico asking for help, not a duty by the federal government to provide disaster relief for Americans caught in a nightmare situation. 

[LadySkinsFan]

I was a racist. During a goodbye conversation with my 92 year old neighbor yesterday, we were discussing race. We are both white. She taught elementary school in D.C.and half or more of her students were black. This was in the early 60s. I told her that when I lived in PA, the division wasn't race but economic, other side of the railroad tracks literally. My cousins block was a mixture. 

 

When we moved here in 1962 to a house that stood on land once owned by George Washington, the division was by race. And growing up from 6th grade on, racism sunk in me too, from my peers because it certainly wasn't by my parents.

 

I grew more aware of racism as I got more experience with a diverse workforce. Plus there were so many similarities between race and female sex, how we are treated as second class citizens even though we are born here. And I came to recognize that I was more privileged as a white woman. 

 

Racism is a learned behavior, when the privileged class (whites) need to keep their power over others that they consider less than. And until the privileged class understands that we are all human beings, they won't stop their racist behavior. And it's not up to the underprivileged to educate the racists. 

 

I had to do the work myself to change my behavior. It can be done.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

I get so frustrated reading about immigrants in the news, where it seems to come up everyday now, because I can't help but ask where the hell this sudden interest was before Trump?  Why are the dreamers still living one temporary reprieve after another?  200,000 El Salvadorians lost their TPS, but why were they still living under a temporary protected status after 17 damn years?  I can't help but see that these vulnerable populations are being used as pawns.  Welcomed, but only so far as second class status.  Always temporary, always at risk and as such always politically useful.  One party offers insults, the other betrayals.  Lives to be bargained with.

 

Because there is no legal way for them to move from TPS to a permanent status or from dreamers status to a legal permanent status.  Obama can't wave a magic wand and magically make these people permanent residents or citizens.

 

And the Bush administration certainly wasn't going to do so.

 

Given the current political environment, what do you think that Obama should have done?  (Or any other Democrat that you want to name?)

[PeterMP]

@Destino

 

At some level, you are right.  They are being bargained for, but they are being bargained for right besides the lives (and well being) of lots of other people, from people that can't afford health care, can't afford a higher education or can't get a quality primary education, and realistically, all of us that are going to be vulnerable to things climate change (which is everybody all over the world), etc so that companies (and people that own them) can get bigger and richer and people can continue to discriminate others based on the idea they are some how superior.

 

But when the people that value people's lives have to make choices between what lives they are bargaining with, I'm not sure how you can blame the people (equally) that are trying to hold the value of the lives at a high value vs. the people interested in profits and ensuring that future discrimination can continue.

 

(which is what you seem to be doing.)

 

I'm pretty sure Obama would have loved to be in a situation where the basics of people's lives (the ability for people to afford health care, the Dreamers, climate change, etc) weren't all positions he had to bargain over.  Obama made a decision that saving the economy, getting everybody insurance, and doing some things to try and lower healthcare costs made the most sense.  Maybe he should have emphasized immigration reform, but I can't blame him for making that value judgement.

[NoCalMike]

24 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

 

Racism is a learned behavior, when the privileged class (whites) need to keep their power over others that they consider less than. And until the privileged class understands that we are all human beings, they won't stop their racist behavior. And it's not up to the underprivileged to educate the racists. 

 

I had to do the work myself to change my behavior. It can be done.

 

True.  While equality ideally benefits everyone in the long term, in the short term it will disadvantage those with the power/privilege.  There is no way getting around the fact that equality, and increased opportunities opening up to more folks who have historically not had them is going to adversely effect those who have traditionally had them exclusively.  The proper response? "Too bad?"   

[LadySkinsFan]

Yeah, that's my response. Being on one end of the privilege spectrum, I say it's time everyone gets an equal opportunity based on humaness.

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

 

 

I don't think Donald Trump and his supporters are the only ones that see Puerto Rican's as something other (lesser) than Americans either.  The lack of press coverage is tied to the public interest.  Tied to clicks.  To ratings.  To ad revenue.  The fact that it's barely getting coverage speaks to a national attitude for the island of American citizens, not just the one coming from the White House.  

I don't know if it's just an organizational issue, but Obama's disaster relief by all reports was so much more efficient, comprehensive, and timely than either Bush's or Trump's. The neglect we saw during Hurricane Andrew as well as Trump's disastrous continuous mismanagement and neglect of Trump are deep stains. Why was disaster relief so much better under the Democrats?

 

I'm not sure this post is directly in response to your complaint, Destino, but it came to mind immediately when you said Puerto Rico with inference that both sides are similar. I do think that your largest point that we are long overdue for immigration reform is a fair one. Then again, I'd argue we didn't get it under Obama because of the Republican Congress and the Dems and especially Obama was very willing to take on the issue.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

This doesn't hold water when ICE isn't kicking down doors of people who came here from Europe. 

 

Also, if you own a territory, you take responsibility for it. The state of Puerto Rico and the MSM's lack of care is pathetic and disgusting. Everyone knew the numbers of dead reported initially was BS and yet no one was willing to admit it. 

 

Historically, European immigrants were treated very poorly by Americans.  

issue, but Obama's disaster relief by all reports was so much more efficient, comprehensive, and timely than either Bush's or Trump's.

 

i was trying to think of the disasters that happened under Obama, nothing really came to mind but I am sure I am missing something. It seems like it was sort of a quiet period for hurricanes afaik...

 

[Burgold]

14 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

i was trying to think of the disasters that happened under Obama, nothing really came to mind but I am sure I am missing something. It seems like it was sort of a quiet period for hurricanes afaik...

 

Sandy was probably the worst one. Really messed up the East Coast all the way to New Jersey, but the fact that nothing comes to mind shows what a great job he, the governors, and responders did... esp. in comparison to Andrew and Maria.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Cat 1/hybrid vs cat 5 not really comparable.... maybe god hates republicans too

[PeterMP]

10 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Cat 1/hybrid vs cat 5 not really comparable.... 

 

ehh, I'm not sure that's fair.  You could just as easy look at the number of people affected by the storms (where there NJ/NY coast is much more densely populated than Puerto Rico) and say it was worse for Obama.

 

(The fundamental issue boils down to a few things though, I think,:

 

1.  That Puerto Rico is an island I do think makes it harder for their to be a quality response.

2.  That fact that it is an island and not overly population reach does limit main stream media coverage of it, which also limits response realistically.

3.  The fact that they have limited representation also hurts, I think.  If Puerto Rico had 2 Senators, I think, you would have seen a different response.)

[Burgold]

12 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Cat 1/hybrid vs cat 5 not really comparable.... maybe god hates republicans too

How about Hurricane Harvey? Category Four.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

All true points, PeterMP, but when you consider that hurricane Harvey and Hurricane Irma also affected the United States as major hurricanes, the numbers affected are about the same, maybe even more affected, but this time they are more spread out.

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

How about Hurricane Harvey? Category Four.

 

Yes, but I think that was handled ok?

[Destino]

5 hours ago, PeterMP said:

@Destino

 

At some level, you are right.  They are being bargained for, but they are being bargained for right besides the lives (and well being) of lots of other people, from people that can't afford health care, can't afford a higher education or can't get a quality primary education, and realistically, all of us that are going to be vulnerable to things climate change (which is everybody all over the world), etc so that companies (and people that own them) can get bigger and richer and people can continue to discriminate others based on the idea they are some how superior.

Excuse the snark but this is how I interpret what you wrote above: 

Dreamer's just need to be reasonable.  Sure they face deportation to a country they've never known, where they don't even speak the right language, but what about college affordability?  Those 200,000 El Salvadorians left to exposed need to realize that they aren't the only people that can claim to be vulnerable.  Not with climate change gripping our world.  Now we're all just as vulnerable, none more urgent than the other.

 

"You're not the only problem" isn't an acceptable answer to a person facing deportation with each change in the political winds.  Allowing the dreamers to stay doesn't cost an extra penny.  Changing the temporary status of refugees that have been living here for 17 years doesn't accelerate climate change.  All it does is remove the threat that haunts these people every day.  There is an urgency here that doesn't get properly recognized.  We are seeing, right now, the very predictable outcome of pushing this issue off until later.

 

 

Quote

But when the people that value people's lives have to make choices between what lives they are bargaining with, I'm not sure how you can blame the people (equally) that are trying to hold the value of the lives at a high value vs. the people interested in profits and ensuring that future discrimination can continue.

 

(which is what you seem to be doing.)

Let me address this clearly, I do not think democrats and republicans are equal on this issue.  I see republicans aggressively seeking to do real harm to these immigrants by revoking their status and deporting them.  I view as democrats working diligently to get as good price for these lives, the ones you made a point of saying they valued, from republicans as possible.  See, totally different.

 

What the democrats say is certainly no where near as bad as republicans on this issue.  The problem is that actions are everything and in that area democrats have only proven themselves committed to maintaining the status quo.  They frame this stance as a defense against republicans to drum up votes, but democrats haven't come through.  Not when they had full control and not during Bush's attempts at comprehensive immigration reform.  The status quo isn't good enough. 

 

 

[Burgold]

28 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

All true points, PeterMP, but when you consider that hurricane Harvey and Hurricane Irma also affected the United States as major hurricanes, the numbers affected are about the same, maybe even more affected, but this time they are more spread out.

 

Yes, but I think that was handled ok?

That was because it happened under Obama

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Ohhhhhhhh. Yes. I forget trump has only been in office for one summer, it feels like it’s been a lot longer... 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

That was because it happened under Obama

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Every day feels like a year with Trump.