Kenny Mayne: Dear Fellow White People: Or should I have said ‘Caucasian’?

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Gettin'a lil harsh guys............

In the Colin Kaepernick thread on Around the NFL, he said this:

Quote

As for the NFL I want to watch the game to enjoy the game and feel a part of the Skins fan base made of every stripe of person know to the planet.  I don't want performers using these games as there political forum.  If they want to express an opinion about the state of the world they can do it on their own time and preferably not during the season.  If the owners can't keep this racial crap out of the game day experience then it is time for me to leave the league behind and focus on other things.

 

I am tired, so damn tired of all this racial stuff.  Fifty years ago when I was a child and a young teen the civil rights movement was in full swing and I watched it on tv and it looked like the problems were being dealt with and we would learn to all get along.  As a young adult things continued to improve so it seemed  the whole racial divide was fading into the past.  Now I'm 65 and things are worse then ever and I see the country tearing itself apart.  We seem to be cursed with tribal hatreds and if I was a young man I'd be thinking about moving to another country to start a life and raise a family.   

 

I can't envision a healing now because the animosity towards Europeans is so virulent and is so easily inflamed and manipulated by politicians.  I can't foresee a day when America gets beyond it anymore, I'd rather my family moved.  If my sons were interested in immigrating to Argentina, Australia or New Zealand now I would do it and be more confident that future generations of my European American family would be safe.  All three countries have high percentages of Europeans and Christians so a hospitable society for my family if my sons ever decide to move.

 

I feel very comfortable calling him the racist he is.

 

That is what we should be doing to people are espousing those viewpoints.

[NoCalMike]

The dirty little secret (I suppose it isn't much of a secret anymore?) of cheap immigrant labor is one big reason there never seems to be a solution to immigration overall.  The corporations want the cheap labor, the consumers want the cheap products, but people turn around and act like it's something other than undocumented workers that make both those things possible. 

 

Claiming you'd be willing to pay a lot more for goods & services if they came from better paid Americans is a nice sentiment to type on a message board, but the reality is a lot of people couldn't afford a sharp in prices and/or they would basically turn to more processed garbage instead of actual food. 

 

The benefit of cheap immigrant labor is one aspect of the immigration issue that isn't often discussed in depth by the government because all sides come off looking pretty bad.

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The dirty little secret (I suppose it isn't much of a secret anymore?) of cheap immigrant labor is one big reason there never seems to be a solution to immigration overall.  The corporations want the cheap labor, the consumers want the cheap products, but people turn around and act like it's something other than undocumented workers that make both those things possible. 

 

Claiming you'd be willing to pay a lot more for goods & services if they came from better paid Americans is a nice sentiment to type on a message board, but the reality is a lot of people couldn't afford a sharp in prices and/or they would basically turn to more processed garbage instead of actual food. 

 

The benefit of cheap immigrant labor is one aspect of the immigration issue that isn't often discussed in depth by the government because all sides come off looking pretty bad.

If we ever got rid of NAFTA, Americans would be vexed at the cost of a banana. I don't think many here understand.

 

(FTR, I think NAFTA is exploitative of our North American neighbors and has done damage across the region. It probably should be repealed but not for the reasons Trump and Bernie state)

[Llevron]

 

Just say its racist indeed 

[Fresh8686]

It's such a mind **** to read the thoughts of people who are sheltered from the costs and pain of racism, but benefit from the fruits of racially predicated exploitation.

It doesn't matter how smart they may or may not be, the simple fact is they are blind to what's really going on, because they've never experienced it viscerally. Some may have an intellectual understanding of the costs, but they still remain unmoved, because they haven't seen or felt the pain.

A poster in another thread likened them to that meme of the dog sitting in a house on fire, saying "this is fine". But, really they are the people sitting in their own homes saying "this is fine", while their neighbors house is on fire. They're not the ones feeling the burn. The only burn they feel is the castigation of others for their second-hand exploitation, which they then make the narrative all about.

How ****ing blindly privileged does a person have to be, to take a narrative about people dying because of their skin color, and make it all about them being called names for supporting and perpetuating a system that is responsible for it?

I mean, do we need to review maslow's hierarchy of needs to bring priority back to the proper narrative? Shelter and safety is at the base. You're esteem or how people view you, is a couple levels above that.

[Veryoldschool]

3 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

The era you point to where "broad-based prosperity and free speech" existed was rampant with racism, segregation and outcasting of non-whites in America.

 

The fact you think today which is the most open and free America has been since its inception isn't broad-based and the home of free thought and expression tells me everything about you. Racist.

 

Maybe you are the racist, I don't know.  I want the broad base prosperity that blue-collar America enjoyed in the 50-60's, not the social problems you describe.  I'm glad we have made progress on the racial problems and I think we would be even more aware of that progress if there was more blue-collar prosperity.  A lot of minority poverty is blue-collar poverty and I believe racial tensions would improve with an abundance of blue collar opportunity which is what I want.

 

I'm a retired white-collar guy whose kids are white-collar guys, we don't have any blue-collar workers in the family.  I want blue-collar prosperity because I want a fairer more just country.  I support Trump because I want broader-based prosperity even if it comes at the expense of my purchasing power.

[zoony]

14 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

dirty little secret (I suppose it isn't much of a secret anymore?) of cheap immigrant labor is one big reason there never seems to be a solution to immigration overall.  The corporations want the cheap labor, the consumers want the cheap products, but people turn around and act like it's something other than undocumented workers that make both those things possible. 

 

America by and large has always been opposed to immigration, even in the ellis island days.  Its always been a way to score easy political points for politicians, and its also always been a wink and a smile with companies in need of labor.  Everyone is covered in the stink here, its not a right or left problem.

 

Overall, i tend to reject the notion that anti immigration policies are racist.  Stupid yes, xenophobic definitely, but racist, probably not.  The Italians and Irish and eastern europeans were scorned as much as anyone when they were coming over by the boatload, they appear white to me.  

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-immigration-history-repeats-1030-20171025-story.html

Beginning in the 1900s, new kinds of immigrants began arriving in the U.S. These were immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe — particularly from Italy, Russia and the areas controlled by the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. The number of people added to the U.S. population was comparable, in relative terms, to the recent immigration boom.

That inflow of newcomers prompted a strong backlash from much of the existing American populace, which was primarily of northern European stock.

 

The hysteria over Italian immigrants 100 years ago eerily parallels much of the hostility Mexican immigrants have faced from the political right in recent decades. Italians were often vilified and stereotyped. Many Italians were lynched in American cities. After one particularly gruesome attack in 1891, a New York Times op-ed declared: “These sneaking and cowardly Sicilians … are to us a pest without mitigation. Our own rattlesnakes are as good citizens as they. ... Lynch law was the only course open to the people of New Orleans to stay the issue of a new license to the Mafia to continue its bloody practices.”

[NoCalMike]

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

  I support Trump because I want broader-based prosperity even if it comes at the expense of my purchasing power.

 

I don't think Trump is very concerned with broader-based prosperity for those outside of his family and tax-bracket.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The benefit of cheap immigrant labor is one aspect of the immigration issue that isn't often discussed in depth by the government because all sides come off looking pretty bad.

 

It's true, the status of undocumented Hispanic immigrants in our society makes all of us look bad.  It's going to be a lasting stain on our legacy.  And there is another major benefit to our society that is provided by the exploitation of their labor: stability.  Technology and the runaway growth of a super exploitative low wage labor market are have propped up our standard of living enough to keep the American middle and working classes stable even as a massive upward redistribution of wealth has taken place over the last generation.  People don't revolt when they're well fed.

[Veryoldschool]

16 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The dirty little secret (I suppose it isn't much of a secret anymore?) of cheap immigrant labor is one big reason there never seems to be a solution to immigration overall.  The corporations want the cheap labor, the consumers want the cheap products, but people turn around and act like it's something other than undocumented workers that make both those things possible. 

 

Claiming you'd be willing to pay a lot more for goods & services if they came from better paid Americans is a nice sentiment to type on a message board, but the reality is a lot of people couldn't afford a sharp in prices and/or they would basically turn to more processed garbage instead of actual food. 

 

The benefit of cheap immigrant labor is one aspect of the immigration issue that isn't often discussed in depth by the government because all sides come off looking pretty bad.

 

Cheap immigrant labor and cheap imported goods eliminate inflation and make it easier for politicians of both stripes to govern and for several decades the benefits outweighed the harm some American workers felt but that turned in 2016 with Bernie and Trump voters feeling that the American dream was slipping away.

 

A transition to American produced goods and American labor would definitely affect the cost of living and it would be painful for some without question but millions are so desperate they voted for Trump despite all the ugly and foolish things he said because for the first time in decades a politician talked about blue-collar economic concerns.  I support his efforts and I hope he succeeds.

[tshile]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

they have liberal politics and they would certainly dilute the political power of conservative White America.

is this true?

i thought they had conservative views on many things and were high % catholic and such?

 

which is why I always thought it was curious the right wouldn't embrace them (and get past the language/skin color thing)

[DogofWar1]

Jiminy Crapmas, Batman.

 

If you close the borders and fight to save blue collar jobs via protectionist policies (and presumably shun automation since that too would take jobs), standard of living would drop like a rock.

 

All the crap jobs would suddenly be Americans' to do, and either they'd have to do them for garbage wages or the price of goods would inflate MASSIVELY.

 

We'd be right back to an era where people died from exhaustion in the fields, or lost fingers in factories and got a 15 minute break to show for it or they'd be fired.

 

And you couldn't even re-implement stronger worker protections through unions and the like.  On the one hand, the legal framework has been eroded for such worker protection groups, and on the other hand, even if you managed to get such groups in place, the massively increased costs that would come from that would raise the price of goods astronomically.

 

This is woefully and hopelessly ignorant of how economics works.  It would crash the economy pretty much instantly.

[tshile]

9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Unemployment rates are at record lows.

 

Yet underemployment and wage stagnation have been a huge problem.

 

[No Excuses]

17 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Maybe you are the racist, I don't know.  I want the broad base prosperity that blue-collar America enjoyed in the 50-60's, not the social problems you describe.  I'm glad we have made progress on the racial problems and I think we would be even more aware of that progress if there was more blue-collar prosperity.  A lot of minority poverty is blue-collar poverty and I believe racial tensions would improve with an abundance of blue collar opportunity which is what I want.

 

I'm a retired white-collar guy whose kids are white-collar guys, we don't have any blue-collar workers in the family.  I want blue-collar prosperity because I want a fairer more just country.  I support Trump because I want broader-based prosperity even if it comes at the expense of my purchasing power.

 

Fair enough. I’ll take your word on this. 

 

I still think you are wrong on blue collar jobs. Protectionism isn’t bringing them back or raising wages. Wage stagnation didn’t happen due to globalism which massively increased US corporate profits. 

 

This country simply has a culture that devalues the work of low-income workers, whether it’s in manufacturing or the service industry. There is plenty of money to go around and corporate bosses like Trump are directly responsible for the shafting of workers. It’s a farce that this man has convinced many of you to think he’s a champion of the blue collar worker when he has benefited from globalism, foreign goods and cheap labor to build his fortunes.

[Veryoldschool]

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I don't think Trump is very concerned with broader-based prosperity for those outside of his family and tax-bracket.

 

When I voted for Trump I voted for him because he was talking about nationalism and populism but I had real doubts about his commitment to either.  I thought if he won he would force others to rethink their positions even if he didn't follow through himself, I am surprised and pleased but his commitment to his campaign promises.  Now that he is in office, I am more hopeful that he is committed to what he said and may actually make some progress.  Both parties are globalist free trade and open border parties so he really doesn't have allies for his trade or immigration policies but he does have a lot of legal authority to manage trade and may not need a party to influence things, we'll see.

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

A transition to American produced goods and American labor would definitely affect the cost of living and it would be painful for some without question but millions are so desperate they voted for Trump despite all the ugly and foolish things he said because for the first time in decades a politician talked about blue-collar economic concerns.  I support his efforts and I hope he succeeds.

 

No, actually that's the problem.  Trump has tapped into the false idea that America can go back to the roaring 20's or Prosperous 1950's via a tax cut and a handful of tariffs.  It is backwards thinking and just paying lip service to people with economic & financial anxiety.  Some jobs are simply gone & not coming back.  Global market place competition coupled with constant new automation has transformed industry and will continue to do so at a more rapid pace with every passing year.  The answer is to get people trained in the new industries that open up and have a better pulse on what future industry looks like instead of looking backwards and trying to prop up dying industry in order to score political points with a nervous work force.   Trump is attempting to perform an organ transplant with chopsticks & some superglue.  All the while his policies are doing little to nothing to prevent the inevitable, but hey I suppose it is aesthetically pleasing for some folks to hear "I love coal country!!!" 

[TradeTheBeal!]

What we’re seeing in here today is the direct result of a multi-decade, right-wing disinformation campaign against rural whites...Fox News being the primary offender.  I guarantee Very was a pretty laid-back, open minded guy back in the 70s before Rush Limbaugh got a hold of him.

 

Ive seen it in my family as well.  It’s very sad.

[Veryoldschool]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Yet underemployment and wage stagnation have been a huge problem.

 

Yes, a few quarters of growth are not going to reverse the decline in blue-collar earnings that has been going on for 40 years but it is a beginning.

[DogofWar1]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Yet underemployment and wage stagnation have been a huge problem.

 

Trickle down economics is a hell of a thing.

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

 

Just saying, Switzerland is a paradise.  

It is, though it's all about neutrality, not isolationism nor protectionism. Switzerland trades with the world, and the world parks its money there.

[tshile]

11 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

All the crap jobs would suddenly be Americans' to do, and either they'd have to do them for garbage wages or the price of goods would inflate MASSIVELY

 

Economists admit that they cannot and do not factor in what it means when people have jobs that make them happy (in terms of contributing, and having $) and how that weighs against inflation of good prices. They know they can't measure that, so it's a general caveat to everything.

 

Unfortunately the people who regurgitate economic theories don't seem to know that.

 

Measuring things only in overall utility is silly. It's a good starting point. Using utility to refuse arguments about how many areas of our society is crumbling is silly. 

2 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Trickle down economics is a hell of a thing.

If someone's going to claim low unemployment rates when posed with the fact that we have an issue of jobs in the lower end of our economy, then they need to be smacked with a rolled up newspaper on the nose.

 

Because they're only 1/4 paying attention, and don't realize it.

[Fresh8686]

I try to put nuance to my words, so I label people properly...

There is a racist, who believes in his/her racial superiority and the racial inferiority of others.

There is a person who is racially prejudiced, who may not ascribe to superiority/inferiority but pre-judges people based on their color rather than the content of their character.

But what do we call people, who choose to benefit from institutional racism and support administrations that perpetuate it, while not necessarily committing a prejudicial act themselves (in that given moment)? Are they racist supporters?  Do we just call them assholes? Weak-hearted, **** ass mother****ers?

At what point does your enjoying of the benefits of racism, while not actually committing a direct racist act or holding a racist belief, make you a racist? Do we need a different word/label for these people?

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

is this true?

i thought they had conservative views on many things and were high % catholic and such?

 

which is why I always thought it was curious the right wouldn't embrace them (and get past the language/skin color thing)

 

It's about a 2/3rds liberal demographic and Hispanic opinion of the Republican party is actually more unfavorable than that liberal/conservative split indicates, and foreign born Latinos are also more liberal than US born ones.  There is an estimated 9 million undocumented Hispanic immigrants in America right now, and presumably over 8 million of those are of voting age.  If you were to give them full status in our society and they turned out to vote at 60% like the rest of the population, you're probably looking at something like a net gain of almost three million votes for Democrats.  There is a reason why Democrats are pushing for immigration reform and a pathway to citizenship for this population and Republicans are blocking it and scheming up ways to suppress the Hispanic vote.

[DogofWar1]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Economists admit that they cannot and do not factor in what it means when people have jobs that make them happy (in terms of contributing, and having $) and how that weighs against inflation of good prices. They know they can't measure that, so it's a general caveat to everything.

 

Unfortunately the people who regurgitate economic theories don't seem to know that.

 

Measuring things only in overall utility is silly. It's a good starting point. Using utility to refuse arguments about how many areas of our society is crumbling is silly. 

I'm confused.  Are you suggesting that out of work blue collar people would be happy working fields for 1.50 an hour, and therefore we wouldn't see demands for wafe increases and worker protections that would raise costs?

 

I'm legitimately not sure what you're saying here with regards to blue collar work suddenly falling on Americans.  Price of goods relates closely to cost of production.

[NoCalMike]

Hey now when unemployment rates  were falling during Obama's 2nd term, I saw plenty of people bringing up "yeah but part-time jobs, no wage growth, people stopped looking for work"

 

Why are those suddenly aspects not to be explored any longer?  Hell I even remember Ted Cruz of all people....TED CRUZ.....mention income inequality during his campaign in 2016.