kgor93 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 When severe injuries begin to become a pattern as they are with this team, it isn’t just bad luck. It often has to do with preparation and physical fitness. And that’s on the training staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Unfortunately the person that’s needs to be fired is untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 The answer is YES.. and they're not the only ones'. The Redskins as an organization fail consistently. That's the only thing they've been consistent at. There's no indication that players health are paramount. The training facility is on a college level. The staff is not the issue as they're directed by the organization. You buy a doctor and the doctor says whatever the organization tells them to say after each issue. Go talk to Robert Henson or listen to him rant about what his documented experience. They literally made the guy run after surgery before his sutures were healed or leave the stadium. He ran, came back and was bleeding from his unhealed incisions, and it just gets worse from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgor93 Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, HOF44 said: Unfortunately the person that’s needs to be fired is untouchable. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, kgor93 said: Who? Really???? Dan Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Maybe, but the recent injuries don't seem to have anything to do with the training staff. Tearing ACLs tends to be one of those random things and it's not like they're not diagnosing or fixing the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I feel like there's something to bad teams having a harder time with injuries. Perhaps conditioning is a factor I don't know how to evaluate that. But I also feel that players with better physical skills on teams who execute better, are marginally less likely to get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Surely, to a large degree, the responsibility of being properly conditioned, falls on the individual player, and not just the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 To your question. No. Tearing an ACL is not training staff related. And speaking of reprimand, to some of you that are calling for Dan, you're acting amazingly sheepish.....again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 This guy (read below) has a pretty good resume. Do other teams not have injuries in pre-season or during the season? Do other team have better training staff? Has anyone looked into the other 31 teams and see how many of their players get hurt? If the Redskins has the most then something should be done. I mean is this a knee-jerk thread? Have you actually complied a scientific data to see if the Skins training staff is really incompetent? "In 2018, Hess played a leading role in creating a state-of-the-art recovery center at Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park, visiting other facilities across various sports and continents before implementing his vision for the nearly 2,000-square-foot center in the facility’s southwest corner. The innovative center features a cryotherapy chamber, photobiomodulation therapy bed and sensory deprivation float orbs in addition to a dedicated space for sports vision training. In addition to his responsibilities with the Redskins, Hess also extends his knowledge and first-hand experience to colleagues and peers by delivering presentations and talks on injuries and conditions that he has encountered through his work with the team. Hess is a certified strength and conditioning specialist. From 2012-13, he served as the Director of Internal Education for the Professional Football Athletic Trainers Society (PFATS). He served as President of PFATS Research and Education Foundation from 2014-17. Hess originally entered the NFL with the Miami Dolphins in 1998 as a training camp intern. He spent three seasons working with the Dolphins during training camp, mini-camps and on game days. He also served as the head athletic trainer at Dunbar High School in Fort Myers, Fla. A native of Pittsburgh, Hess earned his bachelor’s degree in life science in 1998 and his master’s degree in physical therapy in 2001." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, joeken24 said: To your question. No. Tearing an ACL is not training staff related. And speaking of reprimand, to some of you that are calling for Dan, you're acting amazingly sheepish.....again. I believe we’ve been over this numerous times in the past. You like to believe you’re a free thinker and those with an opposing point of view are merely sheep. It’s never been a good look for you and that hasn’t changed. I realize this point continues to evade you but this is Dans day late and a dollar short organization so ultimately everything starts with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 For those that want the training staff fired, please tell me what the preventative measures are for not tearing your ACL or snapping your fibia? The medical community is waiting for your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Fire the training staff? Ok so our training staff regarding strength and conditioning is these guys: - Chad Englehart: Head S&C. He's been on the team since 2010, and Head since 2017 after firing Mike Smith. - Kavan Latham: Assistant. On the team since 2013, and assistant since 2017. - Jake Sankal: Assistant. 3 years on the team and assistant since 2017. Mainly working as nutrionist. Of those 3, two could had an influence on Robert Davis & Derrius Guice. As I don't how a nutrionist could prevent torn ACL. Still even if I use to think like you are preaching that S&C do have an impact on injuries, I doubt they are related to both case that are concerning us right now. Lower body injuries are most commonly due to sloppy field, bad movement, or bad fall, someone stepping on another leg... Which are common events in Football. Upper body are another matters though where S&C would have more impact. Remember Chris Thompson last year? What can a S&C do to prevent Kirk Cousins to fall on Chris Thompson's leg and break it? What can they do to make sure that CT's leg can handle the 200lbs of Kirk Cousins? Not much. In fact if you check the video again, you would notice that CT hesitated to go for the block. Wasn't sure what to do. Let KC go past him then tries to help. Which ends in an awkward situation and a broken leg. That's bad luck. Derrius Guice? Wow... That one happened at the end of a 34 yards run. Tackle was not even violent, just a casual one from behind, like that happend hundredths of time in the NFL. Bad luck again. Robert Davis? Guy had a bad reception while jumping for the ball during a casual training drill... What can S&C do to prevent that? Not much. Matt Ioannidis? Guy had his leg rotate in a sense that it isn't supposed to. I mean if you watch again the video, the injury to Iannidis is way more impressive and dreadful than the one to Guice. I would have expected Ioannidis to be out for the season and Guice out for a few weeks because Coaching staff doesn't want to take any risks with him. Still, Ioannidis is sidelined for a few weeks and Guice is out for the year... Go figures... I would believe here that it's mostly related to player's body than anything else. Some will endure stuff easier than other. Why is Jordan Reed always injured, and why someone like Kerrigan hasn't missed a game since entering the NFL? If S&C had anything to do in this, I believe they would have found the answer and train everyone so they are like Kerrigan. As I said, I used to think alike, but we swapped our S&C Head last year to move away from Mike Smith that used to have an history of injury riddlded team while in Kansas City and here. Then you switch to Englehart, and results are alike... So I would think that it's coming from elsewhere. Maybe that is just our scouting department that tends to discard easily medical warnings when scouting players? Who knows. We're looking at this view a lens and don't pay attention to what happen to other teams. But they're being hit just as we are. If Saquon Barkley tears his ACL in the next game, or Zeke... They would be hindered way more than what we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 What did the training staff do wrong?...I mean, specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters20 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Tearing acls when getting tackled is generally not staff related. Non contact ACL injuries are largely training related. There are plenty of researched ACL prevention programs that reduce no contact knee and ankle injuries significantly. Teams with high rates of preseason injuries are teams(or players) that do not properly prepare and progressively periodize their training. Footballs inherently high injury and some injuries are an accepted part of the game . Nothing can be done for someone twisting their knee in the bottom of a pile on or getting injured during a blind side hit and someone has to be the most injured team each year and it should fluctuate. But when you see a particular team that is consistently at the top of the league in injuries, that points to a staff/training preparation problem. And then there is the field condition topic, which also can contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Butters20 said: But when you see a particular team that is consistently at the top of the league in injuries, that points to a staff/training preparation problem. I could agree with this, except we've been at the top of this list for years despise changing HC and S&C coaches... So I would have to look elsewhere to find to reason for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 6 hours ago, zskins said: "In 2018, Hess played a leading role in creating a state-of-the-art recovery center at Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park...... Thanks z for actually bringing the facts to the table. Pretty cool stuff I didn't even know about, and nice to see us invest in these resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 8 hours ago, kgor93 said: . It often has to do with preparation and physical fitness. I dont wholly disagree with this. Apart from the freak accident, Injuries typically happen when there is fatigue. Fatigue could be the result of over work (likely) or under strength (unlikely). I think training camp is too grulling for players to also have to play preseason games at least without adequate rest. If I were management, I’d look into this. Personally, I don’t think it’s field conditions but I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 While I'd love to jump on Snyder or any other scapegoat to help soothe my anger, as said above, it's hard to blame anything else but bad luck on these latest two injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browntim16 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Honestly, as much as I would love to fire someone in the hopes it would “fix” the injury woes we have, I don’t necessarily think I can blame a contact-related ACL tear on a certain staff. If you want to tell me we have these injuries because our guys aren’t taught to stretch and take care of themselves on non-gamedays, cool, fire away. I hope it works. And please let me be clear, I currently am not a fan of any part of our organization, including medical and training staff, dating all the way back to our guys telling Laron Landry he needed surgery and him just being like “no, you’re dumb” and going on to ball for the Colts. That and “I need eye surgery” Rogers. Carlos really pissed me off because I remember thinking “no one on our staff figured out he couldn’t see, but San Fran figured it out within a week of him showing up?”. In any case, I advise you to not put it on the staff, just deal with reality———Jesus hates the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, JaxJoe said: I dont wholly disagree with this. Apart from the freak accident, Injuries typically happen when there is fatigue. Fatigue could be the result of over work (likely) or under strength (unlikely). I think training camp is too grulling for players to also have to play preseason games at least without adequate rest. If I were management, I’d look into this. Personally, I don’t think it’s field conditions but I may be wrong. Players trains 1h45 / 2h a day during training camp... Hard to get overly tired with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Can we fire the people that start these threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 You know to me the whole "the chain is as strong as the weakest link" comes to mind when I think of Guice and other football players who get hyperextended knee injuries. I just found it very difficult to believe that his past injury issues in college with his left knee did not contribute to the ACL tear now. Particularly since he missed significant playing time in college with it. And if you read this article there is a direct correlation with contact sports, particularly football and hyperextended knees, which can lead to tears of the ACL or MCL. Athletes have a way of putting pressure on different parts of their body. This article makes sense to me. https://www.sports-health.com/sports-injuries/knee-injuries/understanding-knee-hyperextension You can't blame it on the conditioning staff IMO when it comes to Guice. But the state of the facility prior to this offseason, prior to some of the adjustments made, was behind the times. Very poor conditions at Redskins park in comparison to others. So they went out this past offseason, looked at other facilities, and made adjustments. I would like to see how it pans out this year. But Danny Snyder the owner, has pretty much, it seems to me, has had to be pushed to open the wallet and come up to speed. Someone posted a pic of the Girls training facility and practice field and compared it to ours and I laughed my ass off. It is pitiful. So Dan is to blame a bit and it is a bad look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 As someone who has been vocal about taking a deeper look into why the Redskins have had so many injuries in recent years, I agree the timing of this thread is poor. The injury to guide was a freak thing, and from what I've read about Davis injury is it is another one of those freak things that couldn't be prevented. Freak injuries will always be a part of the game. However, there are factors that can be controlled, and which would reduce the amount of injuries overall, and it is fair to wonder whether the Redskins are doing everything they can to help in this regard. There has been some good info gathered regarding the strength and conditioning crew, but there are still questions. I know if I was the owner: After hearing, and in his case seeing, all the reports of how poor the practice field is, I would make the investment into a field with better conditions. While injuries like the one to Davis are bound to happen on a perfect field, I have a hard time believing the poor practice field hasn't contributed to some of the high number of injuries we have had lately. Injuries from a poor practice field can't be chalked up to bad luck, some of them can be prevented. After hearing a guy like dj swearinger, who has been with three other nfl teams, state that he feels redskins players don't take care of themselves properly, I would look into how I could get the s&c leadership to help in that regard, either through proper training, teaching, modeling, or even downright enforcing players to take measures such as sitting in an ice tub, coming in for extra treatment, etc Injuries from players not taking these measures can't be chalked up to bad luck, some of them can be prevented. As far as people like Henson getting bad rehab advice, I know that was years ago, but have the training staff really impoved? Maybe, but a great sounding bio crafted by a PR Dept isn't going to lead me to stop wondering if that could be an issue too. So while the timing of saying the training staff should be fired is poor because it is immediately following injuries that couldn't have been prevented, doesn't mean we should all assume all the injuries we've had in recent years are all freak injuries in which none could be prevented, and then belittle the people who wonder if the Redskins could do something to improve in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I don't blame the staff for these ACL tears, that stuff happens all over the league, but I do believe other teams do a better job at being proactive and innovative in regards to injuries and overall player treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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