Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

[JSSkinz]

 

[dyst]

Nice game by Nick Bosa. Has seven total sacks for the year. Meanwhile Montez Sweat has a whopping 1.5 sacks. We need a new defensive coordinator badly.

[skinny21]

^Holcomb #5? Now that’s nice to see

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

^Holcomb #5? Now that’s nice to see

 

 

He's misused.

He should be #1

[Vanguard]

Id like to apologize to Ryan Anderson.  I really didn’t understand what people saw in him, and I didn’t believe he had much to contribute.  But after really watching him more.  There are people here that were right.  He hustles and plays the run very well.  I’m not sure if we’re still going to use him as a fullback anymore, because teams have scouted this.  But he was good at that also.

 

I put this in the wrong thread, so I wanted to post it here.

[Tedskins 21]

Anderson >>>>> Sweat (bum) 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

We haven’t had a real D coordinator here for YEARS. Yes we are wholly mismanaged on D.

[RandyHolt]

With no proof whatsoever, I think the only reason we run a 3-4 is to best use Ryan Kerrigan

 

I don't think it will take many protein shakes to bump him back up the LDE playing weight he was at when he won the Dick Buttkiss award. The same weight at which we became enamored with him, in the first place.

 

Sweat Payne Allen and Matt need to be unleashed. Instead, they spend a lot of their time trying to get our ILBs into position to make tackles. Reading FML.  Our ILBs may be the weakest part of our defense, and we are funneling the ball at them the 10% of the time we are charading being a 3-4.

[Silvernon]

15 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

With no proof whatsoever, I think the only reason we run a 3-4 is to best use Ryan Kerrigan

 

I don't think it will take many protein shakes to bump him back up the LDE playing weight he was at when he won the Dick Buttkiss award. The same weight at which we became enamored with him, in the first place.

 

Sweat Payne Allen and Matt need to be unleashed. Instead, they spend a lot of their time trying to get our ILBs into position to make tackles. Reading FML.  Our ILBs may be the weakest part of our defense, and we are funneling the ball at them the 10% of the time we are charading being a 3-4.

 

While potentially true....Sweat looks like a prototypical SLB in the 3-4. To really make the 34 defense work, an elite WLB with an exceptional first step, and the ability to bend around the corner, is essential. We haven't had one of those since the 34 was implemented. 

 

Also, very confident in Payne, Allen, Ioannidis, Settle. Would like to see these guys on the field as much as possible. Been a long time working towards having that calibre of talent on the DL  Finally here, let's keep going with the plan. 

 

If we had R.Foster with Holcomb, I think the defense would be world's better. 

 

Even Apke has been a significant upgrade over Nicholson. Imagine an Early Thomas calibre back there. 

[carex]

I hope the new coaching staff next year shifts to a 4-3 base

[kfrankie]

The answer to question is a simple "Yes."  The defensive front (Kerrigan, Allen, Payne Ionnitis (sp), and Sweat) have the most talent of any unit on the team, and are the only unit that is upper tier as far as talent when compared to other teams.  That should tell you something about Greg Manusky.  First rounders across the line, but can't seem to make it work.  Manusky needs to go, and the team needs to stop wasting the prime years of the few talented players we have with sub-standard coaching.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, carex said:

I hope the new coaching staff next year shifts to a 4-3 base

Itll definitely fit with what Callahan wants on offense. 

[carex]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Itll definitely fit with what Callahan wants on offense. 

 

they aren't gonna keep Callahan around.  And if you're saying a 4-3 is old fashioned or something a line with 4 down linemen all the time whatever we do with secondary and linebackers at least means we will not be dropping a passrusher into coverage regularly

[megared]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:22 PM, dyst said:

Nice game by Nick Bosa. Has seven total sacks for the year. Meanwhile Montez Sweat has a whopping 1.5 sacks. We need a new defensive coordinator badly.

 

Agree on the D coordinator bit, but Sweat isn't winning in pass rush scenarios.  As in, prior to the Vikings game, he was ranked last in pass rush situations by PFF among all eligible pass rushers.  I think he would've greatly benefited from a vet pushing him for a starting spot. 

 

I don't think we drafted him where we did, to get a disciplined run stopper on the edge.  

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, carex said:

 

they aren't gonna keep Callahan around.  And if you're saying a 4-3 is old fashioned or something a line with 4 down linemen all the time whatever we do with secondary and linebackers at least means we will not be dropping a passrusher into coverage regularly

That's happening because Manusky is an imbicile. We've actually got a great 34 front 7. If we can draft young, and get a semi competent DC, we will have one of the NFLs most talented front 7s. Young and 2 "good" corners and our defense is as talented as any one. And for a few years too.

[Skinsinparadise]

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate

1. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 33%
2. Robert Quinn, Cowboys, 30%
3. Myles Garrett, Browns, 28%
4. Preston Smith, Packers, 28%
5. Jadeveon Clowney, Seahawks, 27%
6. Dante Fowler Jr., Rams, 27%
7. Matthew Judon, Ravens, 26%
8. Khalil Mack, Bears, 26%
9. DeMarcus Lawrence, Cowboys, 26%
10. Shaquil Barrett, Buccaneers, 25%

 

ADVERTISEMENT

 

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Aaron Donald, Rams, 28%
2. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 23%
3. Ed Oliver, Bills, 19%
4. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 19%
5. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 18%
6. Vita Vea, Buccaneers, 18%
7. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 16%
8. Matt Ioannidis, Redskins, 15%
9. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 14%
10. D.J. Reader, Texans, 14%

 

I notice Vea is getting some hype of late.  He was banged up some last year but seems healthy now.   Cowboys did well with Quinn.  McClay is maybe the best personnel guy in the league drafts well, good trades, FA decent, too. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

 

Team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 56%
2. Dallas Cowboys, 54%
3. Los Angeles Rams, 53%
4. Pittsburgh Steelers, 53%
5. Jacksonville Jaguars, 52%
6. Atlanta Falcons, 52%
7. Philadelphia Eagles, 51%
8. Baltimore Ravens, 51%
9. Cleveland Browns, 48%
10. Chicago Bears, 48%
11. New York Jets, 47%
12. Arizona Cardinals, 47%
13. Green Bay Packers, 46%
14. Seattle Seahawks, 46%
15. Buffalo Bills, 45%
16. San Francisco 49ers, 45%
17. Carolina Panthers, 44%
18. Los Angeles Chargers, 43%
19. Houston Texans, 42%
20. Washington Redskins, 42%
21. Indianapolis Colts, 41%
22. Tennessee Titans, 40%
23. New England Patriots, 39%
24. New Orleans Saints, 39%
25. Minnesota Vikings, 39%
26. New York Giants, 39%
27. Cincinnati Bengals, 37%
28. Denver Broncos, 36%
29. Kansas City Chiefs, 35%
30. Oakland Raiders, 35%
31. Miami Dolphins, 30%
32. Detroit Lions, 25%

[dyst]

10 hours ago, megared said:

 

Agree on the D coordinator bit, but Sweat isn't winning in pass rush scenarios.  As in, prior to the Vikings game, he was ranked last in pass rush situations by PFF among all eligible pass rushers.  I think he would've greatly benefited from a vet pushing him for a starting spot. 

 

I don't think we drafted him where we did, to get a disciplined run stopper on the edge.  

Can't disagree there. I called him a 'bust so far' during or after game one and someone jumped down my throat for it. Meanwhile that same person is now hush hush about it. 

[megared]

30 minutes ago, dyst said:

Can't disagree there. I called him a 'bust so far' during or after game one and someone jumped down my throat for it. Meanwhile that same person is now hush hush about it. 

 

I'm real reluctant to attach that label to him, because it appears he isn't being coached up:

 

Quote

Mark Bullock from The Athletic recently broke down some film of Sweat, and noted that at times, the 6’6″, 250-pounder has been lining up too far outside to let his speed go to work, and his inability to shed the hands of blockers negates a dangerous length that he has.

Quote

Those two plays show that Sweat is negating his best two traits as a rusher, his length and his speed. He’s taking too long to get into rushes, which negates the speed aspect of his athleticism, while at other times, he gets too close to blockers, preventing him from making use of his superior arm length. At times when he has used his speed, he hasn’t been able to show the bend around the edge consistently.

 

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/02/montez-sweat-has-largely-avoided-criticism-despite-slow-start-to-his-career/

 

Technique aside, I'm just not seeing dynamic plays, or things that indicate he's particularly good (at a pro level).  

 

Quote

So far, Sweat has had a relatively slow start to his career, but there have been flashes of brilliance playing alongside a stout defensive front for the Redskins. The intangibles are there to be great, and with almost 400 NFL snaps under his belt, he is getting the experience needed to grow quickly.

Quote

In terms of pressure count, Sweat had a career day in Week 9 by producing a sack and an additional two hurries across his 10 pass-rushing snaps. However, if you were to look closer, you could see that none of those pressures came by way of a beaten block or a won rep, as all three were the result of an unblocked path to the quarterback. Sweat ended the game with a 53.8 overall grade and a 48.2 run-defense grade, the latter of which is career-low for the first-round edge defender.

 

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/06/dwayne-haskins-montez-sweat-rookie-grades-pff/

 

It appears the overall ineptness of this defense is shielding him from criticism.  

[dyst]

1 hour ago, megared said:

 

I'm real reluctant to attach that label to him, because it appears he isn't being coached up:

Coaching has a ton to do with it BUT coaching won't make you faster, coaching shouldn't be needed to make you hustle. This guy just looks slow out there.

[megared]

2 minutes ago, dyst said:

Coaching has a ton to do with it BUT coaching won't make you faster, coaching shouldn't be needed to make you hustle. This guy just looks slow out there.

 

Knowing where to line up is all coaching.  Hand placement, shedding blocks, pass rush moves are all things he should've been tasked with learning before he was thrown out there.  At this point he's a situational player.   Unless you can anticipate him being unblocked, he's useless on passing downs, at the moment.  

[NeverSurrender]

21 hours ago, Silvernon said:

 

While potentially true....Sweat looks like a prototypical SLB in the 3-4. To really make the 34 defense work, an elite WLB with an exceptional first step, and the ability to bend around the corner, is essential. We haven't had one of those since the 34 was implemented. 

 

Also, very confident in Payne, Allen, Ioannidis, Settle. Would like to see these guys on the field as much as possible. Been a long time working towards having that calibre of talent on the DL  Finally here, let's keep going with the plan. 

 

If we had R.Foster with Holcomb, I think the defense would be world's better. 

 

Even Apke has been a significant upgrade over Nicholson. Imagine an Early Thomas calibre back there. 

Good points man,  I think Apke has surprised a lot of people.  I also thing that Bostic is really the problem with the ILBS.  He gets beat like a drum.  Im wondering why SDH is not playing more.  

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Coaching has a ton to do with it BUT coaching won't make you faster, coaching shouldn't be needed to make you hustle. This guy just looks slow out there.

When you're thinking too much you tend to play slower.

[carex]

39 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

When you're thinking too much you tend to play slower.

 

didn't that one article flat out say that the way he is playing he's taking his own speed out of the game himself?

[FuriousD]

There's an article on Spinzone about Tim Settle and how the Skins need to figure out how to get him more involved.  Perhaps someone can find it and post it but in a nutshell it's saying he's developing quickly into a force and deserves more snaps.  The problem of course, is who he's playing behind...

[Vanguard]

Charlie Casserly just said Moreland might be our best corner.  Didn’t curtail the comment at all.

 

wtf. 🤨

 

I disagree with him two to three times whenever he comes on.  He was a GM like 300 years ago, and people around here really value his input.  He also said McLaurin is our best weapon but not a red zone threat.  Off the top of my head he has two red zone receiving touchdowns. But this is a defensive thread, i digress.