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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Vanguard

By Vanguard
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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a Manusky guy, I don't think he's horrible either but nothing special.  I am friendlier to Jay then most but I do agree with those who pan his defensive coordinator picks.  I panned the Barry over Phillips move in real time when it went down like many here.   I had the same issue with Shanny -- he wasn't big into big D coordinator names here or when he was in Denver.  It's not that I think a coach is a panacea.  But IMO when you have a chance to get a legend like Wade Phillips you do it.   

 

I think the last really accomplished D coordinator we've had was Gregg.  Blache wasn't bad.     The one thing I am not going to fall for anymore is the new guy saying how much more aggressive he plans to be than the predecessor. 

 

 

The big elephant in the room I think is Kerrigan.  Is he spent?  If so, it makes the idea that teams were chasing him pretrade deadline but the Redskins weren't budging look even dumber.  I like Kerrigan but at some point as a player ages they hit a wall.  Today is a good test for him, the Jets O line isn't good. 

Situation with Kerrigan is a bit surprising to me.  I could understand a dip in production, but it’s looked more like a cliff.  While I wish Sweat was showing us more, I put some blame on the coaching staff for the way he’s lining up, and most of the blame of the FO.  
How many times have they let a guy walk and then tried to find his replacement?  Or had a guy, like Quinn say, that hadn’t proven himself to replace an established starter?  Pryor for Jackson/Garçon, Martin/Flowers for Lauvao, Sweat for Smith, etc.  Maybe this is a touch unfair, because at least in this instance they had Anderson in the fold before Smith walked (though he hadn’t/hasn’t shown much).  On the other hand, where are the replacements for our oft-injured players (Reed and Thompson)?  As usual, I question the vision of the FO.  

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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On 11/17/2019 at 12:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep I did like Vea over Payne.  

 

As for James-Fitzpatrick I was pretty torn, depended on the week, closer to the draft I believe I was more of a Fitzpatrick guy but maybe I am misrecalling, I'd have to go back and look.  😀    I do recall close to the draft I wanted either guy over the DT's.  I do value DT over S typically.  Both I thought (like many others did) both James and Fitzpatrick were swiss arm knives and special -- not ordinary safeties. 

 

I loved both James and Fitzpatrick just about equally.

That decision was completely positional for me. FS>SS.

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skinny21

skinny21

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Ok, I’ll admit that I’m surprised Kerrigan has that many pressures (and perhaps I was wrong to state that Kerrigan’s play has “fallen off a cliff”).  Maybe more importantly though, I think this somewhat validates my thinking that with better coverage (in terms of both the individual players - corners and backers - and the coaching/scheme), this dline would probably be more disruptive/productive.  
I hope the FO is able to find a quality starting corner (or two) this offseason.  I’m also still salty about trading away Fuller 😠

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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The 9ers invested a lot up front but didn't really start showing results until this year when they got a stud in Bosa. We need our Bosa and Chase Young is just that. Nobody else up front is a real difference maker. Jonathan Allen is the most overhyped prospect we've had in years.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Judging by PFF, good news and bad news.  The good news is they seem to like Settle.  The bad news is they seem to think Jonathan Allen is playing like a jag.  He has a low season score and while I haven't seen their scores for yesterday's game yet, I noticed they picked on Allen's play and not in a good way in their summary of yesterday's game.

 

On another note, Vea's PFF score now around mid 80s, that's close to an elite category.    Granted we couldn't have taken him anyway but wonder if some of the beat guys were right that they had Payne rated higher than him anyway.

 

 

 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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Assuming our OLBs get coached up by Tomsula, or heck even Manusky, why couldn't they coach up Preston Smith into the stud he is today, or use him to his strengths?

 

I feel like Montez Sweat is well on his way to be Preston Smith part deux... our only hope may be wholesale changes in our coaching staff. 

 

Bullock as per usual with fantastic tweets

https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1202949810300563457?s=20

 

 

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

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10 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Assuming our OLBs get coached up by Tomsula, or heck even Manusky, why couldn't they coach up Preston Smith into the stud he is today, or use him to his strengths?

 

I feel like Montez Sweat is well on his way to be Preston Smith part deux... our only hope may be wholesale changes in our coaching staff. 

 

Bullock as per usual with fantastic tweets

https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1202949810300563457?s=20

 

 

 

 

I think this is a schematic flaw we've been following.  We ask our LBs, both inside and outside, to be far too responsible in pass coverage.  That might be because of our lack of confidence in our Safeties to cover man to man, but it's been something we've done that exposes our interior.  We ask guys like Preston Smith, Zach Brown, Cole Holcomb, heck even Ryan Kerrigan to cover, they get exposed and we get beat up.  If Preston is in zone or man coverage 30% of the time, that's how many less snaps rushing the QB?  How much more does he have to focus on plays and working on coverage, and not working on pass rush?  

 

I imagine it's all connected.  We're not schematically using our LBs to do what they do best.  

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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One thing this organization has always done that's always pissed me off is put players in the absolute wrong position. We get Lavar Arrington and turn him into a read and react player instead of just letting him make plays. We get Clinton Portis and turn him from a gamebreaking speed back into a brusing power back. We get RG3 and try to use him like Tom  Brady after revolutionizing the league for a year. And the list goes on and on and on.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

One thing this organization has always done that's always pissed me off is put players in the absolute wrong position. We get Lavar Arrington and turn him into a read and react player instead of just letting him make plays. We get Clinton Portis and turn him from a gamebreaking speed back into a brusing power back. We get RG3 and try to use him like Tom  Brady after revolutionizing the league for a year. And the list goes on and on and on.

 

Good stuff. I am still bewildered that we didn't even let Arrington try to block extra points in a era without the threat of the 2pt conversion.  You could even hurdle centers!   We wouldn't even let him try to block a FG to preserve a late lead. He stood lined up at OLB for 7 years, hands on his hips, prepared for a fake FG that of course never happened.  We iced the Lavar leap from day 1, while I always assumed that was one of the reasons we considered drafting him.  He was a potential game changer attacking at the LOS and then benched him because we somehow couldn't find a way to use him in the modern day era of ultra aggressive defenses.

 

Our soft ass read react and get run over playbook from the last 3 decades needs to be burned. How can it keep being handed down from one DC, to the next??  And the worst part is that even mid game when our OLBs are reading and our defense is getting abused, game or season on the line, we don't waver. We stick to the pathetic plan, and always retain the DCs long past the period needed to see they are running the same ineffective crap D as the last guy.

 

Maybe its best we just don't invest anything in OLB.  Why in the world did we spend 2 2's on Sweat to use him a JAG/scheme guy?  We should strongly consider trading him if we will forever use him this way.  Trade him for Warrick Holdman Jr. Or, Trent "Quicksand" Murphy.

 

 

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

Maybe its best we just don't invest anything in OLB.  Why in the world did we spend 2 2's on Sweat to use him a JAG/scheme guy?  We should strongly consider trading him if we will forever use him this way.  Trade him for Warrick Holdman Jr. Or, Trent "Quicksand" Murphy.

 

 

 

 

Because i don't think we do.  You hope that we address the coaching position and the new coach can truly judge what we have.  The last DC we had that got hired to HC was Marvin Lewis in 2002.  That's 17 seasons of DCs that NOBODY thought was good enough to promote.  That is a part of the picture that shows our DCs have not been where we would like them to be.

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Silvernon

Silvernon

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The three starters have been great, with the caveat that I think Allen will finish strong further removed from injury. 

 

I would have taken Derwin James, Edmunds or Vander Esch as they seemed better exceptions relative to their peers and close to the ideals looked for at their position today. Yes, you could argue Payne fits this description too, however that brings us into a long discussion. 

 

TL;DR Payne is living up to draft position. 

 

Settle has grown, and he's a difference maker. Good depth. 

 

 

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