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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Vanguard

By Vanguard
in The Stadium

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Commander Wolffe

Commander Wolffe

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I like both players, but neither would keep me from drafting over them.  

The first three rounds of the draft. Sure. After that we true needs kick it...maybe not so much. A lot of season left though and competition and depth are always welcomed. Just curious to see which second and third year players make the jump next year. We have a stable of them...someone must really emerge right?

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

You like them, but we have no talent there? Ok........

When I say "talent" I mean talented to where I wouldn't be looking to upgrade that spot.  I do like both players, but I don't think either one is good enough that I would pass on a better option available in the draft or in FA.  Both statements can be true.

 

I feel like we need an upgrade at MLB and at speed/edge rusher to take the defense to the next level.    

 

 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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Doubling down on Dix is a wise move. OCs will eventually figure out that they are dumb as **** to keep trying to run at us, right? 

 

Sure.  No matter what, teams run. They run for the sake of running. The run into a brick wall, they are setting up play action, whatever. 3rd and 21. You have to run a draw. Have to.  Belly is the only coach that I saw mid game without being down big, pass 10+ times in a row. Sure it was decades ago, and it worked.  I wonder why teams with a feeble run game, or facing a strong front don't do that more, but hey what do we as fans know.  As a famed former injury prone hockey goon, hobey baker award winner and one time capitals GM once said, if we knew the game we'd be in it.

 

Let's start with Atlanta, with their lead back out. Are they really going to pound the rock up the gut with Tevin and Ito?  Yes, yes they probably will.  4th and 1 facing 2000 pounds of bamamanhood, they will likely run straight at them. They need to test the waters. It took OCs 80+ years to realize they were dumb to clipboard a QB for 3 years in the prime of his career, and started catering play calling to their QBs, and not square peg round hole pounding away a bad fit at QB for their static outdated playbook.  Because that is the way things have always been done.

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted
17 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Agreed.

 

And while I’m in here, to all our ES talent gurus who were mad we picked Payne....

 

LOLOLOLOLOlOL.?

 

I wasn't happy about the Payne pick as I thought it was way too high for him. I believed he would be a decent player but nothing special and so far he's proven me wrong, which I love.

 

My biggest beef was taking him over Derwin James. And as much as I think Payne is a great addition to our DL and is playing really well, James is looking to be a legit game changing perennial All-Pro already so I'm still not sure which I'd have...I think the trenches are super important but it's not every day you can find a guy like James who seems to basically be a Polamalu/ST clone and is terrorizing offenses all over the field. I think within a couple of years he'll be the best Safety in the NFL.

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jbird2

jbird2

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13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I wasn't happy about the Payne pick as I thought it was way too high for him. I believed he would be a decent player but nothing special and so far he's proven me wrong, which I love.

 

My biggest beef was taking him over Derwin James. And as much as I think Payne is a great addition to our DL and is playing really well, James is looking to be a legit game changing perennial All-Pro already so I'm still not sure which I'd have...I think the trenches are super important but it's not every day you can find a guy like James who seems to basically be a Polamalu/ST clone and is terrorizing offenses all over the field. I think within a couple of years he'll be the best Safety in the NFL.

Yeah but right now we have the Top 2 safetys in the NFL, and the opportunity to lock them both up long term if we want. HHCD seems to love it here and has a bond with DJ and patterns himself after ST. 

 

hindsight is 20-20 but you draft James and our run D is horrible which causes our CB and S to have to support the run and loose effectiveness against the Pass. Also we dont need to go and get HHCD when the opportunity arises, and who knows but maybe a div rival does not pick him up.

 

We are starting to see what a superior DL looks like, and just wait to see what happens when the OLB really start turning up the heat.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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6 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

We are starting to see what a superior DL looks like, and just wait to see what happens when the OLB really start turning up the heat.

 

With the monster D line, we were 24th in sacks until facing the crappy Giants D line.  I like Kerrigan and Preston. But I wouldn't mind loading up more.  It's not a bad draft coming up for edge rusher.  And with the slew of DTs coming out in this draft -- an insane crop, a good edge guy might fall to our pick. 

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jbird2

jbird2

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7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With the monster D line, we were 24th in sacks until facing the crappy Giants D line.  I like Kerrigan and Preston. But I wouldn't mind loading up more.  It's not a bad draft coming up for edge rusher.  And with the slew of DTs coming out in this draft -- an insane crop, a good edge guy might fall to our pick. 

Edge rusher yes, but no DT needed. We have settle for depth and with Allen and Ion, we don't need a starting DE.

 

A top flight replacement for PSmith would be my only concern there.

 

We need depth on the OL too badly and a top shelf TE and CB rank higher than adding depth to the DL,

 

 

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bird_1972

bird_1972

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Posted
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

With the monster D line, we were 24th in sacks until facing the crappy Giants D line.  I like Kerrigan and Preston. But I wouldn't mind loading up more.  It's not a bad draft coming up for edge rusher.  And with the slew of DTs coming out in this draft -- an insane crop, a good edge guy might fall to our pick. 

 

A thousand times, YES!!

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ILikeBilly

ILikeBilly

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With the monster D line, we were 24th in sacks until facing the crappy Giants D line.  I like Kerrigan and Preston. But I wouldn't mind loading up more.  It's not a bad draft coming up for edge rusher.  And with the slew of DTs coming out in this draft -- an insane crop, a good edge guy might fall to our pick. 

But, we had played one less game than many teams ahead of us on the list.  Go thru the list and for every team that had played 7 games, at that point, remove a sack or  2 or 3 from their total and see how we climb closer to the league leaders...

 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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1 hour ago, ILikeBilly said:

But, we had played one less game than many teams ahead of us on the list.  Go thru the list and for every team that had played 7 games, at that point, remove a sack or  2 or 3 from their total and see how we climb closer to the league leaders...

 

 

Yep - great point. It is yet another reason I hate the bye week. All stats have to be now relegated to "per game", Gurley's aside. ARG!!  We need an asterisk on any player leading that has more games than others.

 

* and again a team being up a half game in a division in a mere 16 game season sure seems stoopid. And Philly get a bye week the week of the deadline.... whadafaaaaa

 

 

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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11 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Sure it was decades ago, and it worked.  I wonder why teams with a feeble run game, or facing a strong front don't do that more, but hey what do we as fans know.  

 

See, this I don't really believe. 

1. Passing games don't really travel. You have to deal with things like turf conditions, wind and rain, or just really bad weather like snow

 

2. If you're up and you can't run it, you can't eat up the clock, so it's either keep scoring or keep being stopped and giving your opponent more clock 

3. Passes are much more likely of a negative play, and not only that but those types of plays are typically the bigger plays. How many times does a bad RB fumble in a year 5? 6? And normally those are piles of guys going after the ball so if they recover its a down by contact almost immediately. Qbs throw 10-15 INTs on the regular and that's the good guys. Guys like Eli or Favre thew 30ish. And those plays are normally just with 2 or so guys around the ball which means that one missed tackle and you've got a punt return type situation. 

4. Passes depend on a lot more understanding and trust. That ball is initially in the QB's hands and he's protecting it, until he starts his throwing motion and risks a fumble if the LT is beat and he's blindsided. Then it has to go through a throwing lane, which is cool until a DL puts his hand up and deflects it, then it gets to the WR who the QB is trusting to make the right read and the right break, and then it's on the WR to actually catch the ball. 

 

Some of the better QBs make this look easy but there's a reason that even in this "new" NFL, some qbs still can't make it. 

 

Running the ball may only get you 3.x on average but its got a much higher floor than a bad pass play. 

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carex

carex

Posted
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7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With the monster D line, we were 24th in sacks until facing the crappy Giants D line.  I like Kerrigan and Preston. But I wouldn't mind loading up more.  It's not a bad draft coming up for edge rusher.  And with the slew of DTs coming out in this draft -- an insane crop, a good edge guy might fall to our pick. 

 

we had a week four bye and we played two top rushing QBs who we played to contain

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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46 minutes ago, carex said:

 

we had a week four bye and we played two top rushing QBs who we played to contain

 

My point is Kerrigan and Preston are good pass rushers maybe even very good but not elite.  Imagine having an elite pass rusher with those guys in the middle like we got.   Not saying its easy to find pass rushers in the draft but I'd fish some -- Kerrigan isn't getting younger and we don't know for sure if Preston is coming back.   Anderson might be emerging.  But you can never have enough rushers IMO.   

 

The rest of this isn't directed to you and that point.  Here is an early screen shot where they stopped Barkley.   3-4 formation.  They doubled Payne with a guard and the center, the doubled Ionnaidis with a guard and tight end.   They can't double every one so Jonathan Allen left with one guy.  Ditto the DEs. Talk about having the MLBs free of incoming blockers to make a tackle.  Giants leave 7 guys to block but doesn't matter.

redskinsdline.thumb.png.43aa027fc41f61b362d0e7b8517a9ad8.png

 

 

 

Here is them playing 4-3.  Payne and Allen playing 3 technique.  This ends up with a Payne sack.  Giants don't leave an extra blocker.  Guard double teams Allen then shifts to Preston Smith.  Payne left one on one. The problem offenses have when you have multiple scary players on the D line is you have to pick your poison.  And if you leave 5 guys to block on obvious passing downs -- you might have trouble like here.

 

paynesack.thumb.png.0868dfeb115a9634b0777e9accfafdca.png

 

 

Payne getting the sack.

 

paynesack2.thumb.png.361b3821b3abca044750ecd2ead173c8.png

 

 

then the sequence of the Allen sack.  Again 4-3, both he and Payne playing 3 technique.  5 left to block.  They double team Allen.  Kerrigan and Preston both end up on the same side, and clog the lineman, not sure if that was intentional or not but it how it went down,  Allen breaks free and heads right to the QB.  

 

allensack.thumb.png.581e3f00a77024941a44cd68d058d3d5.png

 

allensack2.thumb.png.a29eeb1a433fc3429667b13d2c4523f4.png

 

allensack3.thumb.png.9a5fb1c1a4af76bb07f6dfd2007e31be.png

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cakmoney61

cakmoney61

Posted
Posted

Wow things have changed a lot (in my mind) regarding the Redskins defense!!!  The Redskins defense was so bad for so long that I would turn the channel whenever the defense came on the field.  Watching them was so emotionally painful that I literally couldn't watch them.

 

This year, however, I am in the midst of a great paradigm shift!!!  I have found myself looking forward to seeing what the defense is going to do!  The defense has captured my imagination in a way I never thought would be possible again!!!!!  Getting Clinton-Dix has actually taken my expectations to an even higher level.

 

This defense is no joke anymore!!!  There's something about having a rock solid defense that gives me (as a fan) a lot of pride whether the offense is good or not.  

 

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS DEFENSE!!!!!

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