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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?


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8 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

He's been warming up, but 4.5 sacks in 7 games is not impressive for an OLB in 2018. That said, I think Kerrigan has been fine, just not great. Preston Smith has been very underwhelming. Zero sacks in 7 games? Come on. That just isn't getting it done. They need more pass rushing production out of that spot. I think if we let him walk and play Anderson, we lose very little. I would love a major investment in a pass rusher. That could make the whole defense nearly elite. 

 

I am warmer on Anderson then most, as I think he's been doing what's asked of him... but I think Preston has as well.  I've seen him all over the field, including in pass coverage.  I don't think they've been pushing him to rush the passer.  Hard to hold minimal sacks against him, if that's not what's being asked of him.  He's been getting pressures when he has been rushing, but he's also sharing a lot of that with 4 other very good / stud players along the line.  

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For years, I've been asking for a ****ing Nose tackle for this team. FOR YEARS. For years, I've had people tell me we didn't need one. Or we could just throw anything at the position (like Ziggy ****ing Hood) and that was good enough. Or we needed a FS, because passing. but no, we don't need a NT, we can run a 3-4 over/ under and it wont matter, blah blah blah...

 

So, we finally go and get one and this is what happens.

 

I'm not gonna say I told you s..... Oh, to hell with that. I am.

 

I told you so. I TOLD YOU SO YOU ****ING **** ****ERS!!!!!!!!! I GODDAMNED TOLD YOU!!!!!!

 

NT is the most important position in the 3-4. I don't care what you want to call the ****ing alignment. If you don't have one, don't even bother running it. Now we have one, and he looks to be damn good. And the defense is killing it, especially with run stops.

 

Tell me, what's it like to face Ingram, Kamara, Johnson, Barkley, McCaffery, Newton and Elliot.............and hold all of them for under 50 yards?

 

I'll tell you, it's ****ing GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok.................got that out of my system. That's been building up since we switched over to the 3-4.

 

I'm better now. Until someone says that we could trade Payne for like.....................a FS. Then I'll go ape**** again. :drooley:

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1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

He's been warming up, but 4.5 sacks in 7 games is not impressive for an OLB in 2018. That said, I think Kerrigan has been fine, just not great. Preston Smith has been very underwhelming. Zero sacks in 7 games? Come on. That just isn't getting it done. They need more pass rushing production out of that spot. I think if we let him walk and play Anderson, we lose very little. I would love a major investment in a pass rusher. That could make the whole defense nearly elite. 

4.5 sacks over 7 games equates to 10 sacks over 16. That's right along with his average more or less.

 

We just don't have that twitchy, explosive off the edge rusher. We collapse pockets but allow QBs with any sort of mobility to escape because we don't get there particularly quickly.

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23 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

For years, I've been asking for a ****ing Nose tackle for this team. FOR YEARS. For years, I've had people tell me we didn't need one. Or we could just throw anything at the position (like Ziggy ****ing Hood) and that was good enough. Or we needed a FS, because passing. but no, we don't need a NT, we can run a 3-4 over/ under and it wont matter, blah blah blah...

 

So, we finally go and get one and this is what happens.

 

I'm not gonna say I told you s..... Oh, to hell with that. I am.

 

I told you so. I TOLD YOU SO YOU ****ING **** ****ERS!!!!!!!!! I GODDAMNED TOLD YOU!!!!!!

 

NT is the most important position in the 3-4. I don't care what you want to call the ****ing alignment. If you don't have one, don't even bother running it. Now we have one, and he looks to be damn good. And the defense is killing it, especially with run stops.

 

Tell me, what's it like to face Ingram, Kamara, Johnson, Barkley, McCaffery, Newton and Elliot.............and hold all of them for under 50 yards?

 

I'll tell you, it's ****ing GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok.................got that out of my system. That's been building up since we switched over to the 3-4.

 

I'm better now. Until someone says that we could trade Payne for like.....................a FS. Then I'll go ape**** again. :drooley:

 

 

My name is OVC and I'm a scheme-oholic.  I'll freely admit that for a long time I've been of the idea that we rarely run a 3-4, so the need for a true NT was mitigated.  I understand how important the position is, not only in the 3-4 but in any defensive alignment, and I'm here to say... I was wrong.  

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I don't know if it is that we needed a DT so much as that we needed some defensive linemen with talent. 


BWT, I having just watched that Carolina game, I can say that I think Payne is extremely special. He isn't the massive immoveable Ngata type player, but he is incredibly agile for such a big, strong guy. Two plays stood out to me. In the first half, they had Payne move out to end and rush from a 2 point stance in an obvious passing situation. On another play in the second half, Payne ran down Greg Olsen, well downfield,  on a screen pass. 

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Even more important than getting a good NT... we got a good NT that’s also a good DT in our 43/42.  Feels damn good.  ?

This is a good point, his athleticism is what makes this hybrid possible. He is way too fast and quick for how big he is. He looks like a 8 to 12 sack a year player from the NT position when hes in his prime... which is insane. 

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Just now, Burgundy Yoda said:

This is a good point, his athleticism is what makes this hybrid possible. He is way too fast and quick for how big he is. He looks like a 8 to 12 sack a year player from the NT position when hes in his prime... which is insane. 

Pretty sure hes only 20 and going to keep getting stronger and better. Payne will be the best defensive lineman in the NFL inside of 3 years.

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16 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don't know if it is that we needed a DT so much as that we needed some defensive linemen with talent. 


BWT, I having just watched that Carolina game, I can say that I think Payne is extremely special. He isn't the massive immoveable Ngata type player, but he is incredibly agile for such a big, strong guy. Two plays stood out to me. In the first half, they had Payne move out to end and rush from a 2 point stance in an obvious passing situation. On another play in the second half, Payne ran down Greg Olsen, well downfield,  on a screen pass. 

 

 

I'll be blunt. We needed a ****ing NT in the worse ****ing way. :D

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10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I think it's actually an NFL rule instituted that anytime the Redskins have a good defense, they must have a crappy offense, and whenever they have a good offense, they must have a crappy defense. They can never have them both good at the same time. That rule has been in effect I believe for decades.

Hence the 25 years of suck to mediocre back to suck.

If we had a good offense and defense we probably wouldn't suck.

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

4.5 sacks over 7 games equates to 10 sacks over 16. That's right along with his average more or less.

 

We just don't have that twitchy, explosive off the edge rusher. We collapse pockets but allow QBs with any sort of mobility to escape because we don't get there particularly quickly.

 

Give me a ten sack guy who can play the run over a 15 sack guy who can't.  Especially when that ten sack guy NEVER misses a down.

 

You can't force runs worth a damn with an OLB who can't set an edge.

 

I've really come to appreciate Kerrigan the last few years.  He was always made for playing this scheme and this level of defense.  We just never had the personnel to run the defense right until now.  What good is forcing a run inside when your inside tacklers are trash?  Similarly, we're going to miss Kerrigan when he's gone.  Teams are going to be spilling runs outside on us for chunk yardage and running off tackle while our talented defensive tackles can do nothing but watch unless we replace Kerrigan with someone good.

 

Guys like Kerrigan don't grow on trees.  He's going to finish his career with 100+ sacks and 16 game seasons every year until that final one when his body breaks down.

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37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don't know if it is that we needed a DT so much as that we needed some defensive linemen with talent. 


BWT, I having just watched that Carolina game, I can say that I think Payne is extremely special. He isn't the massive immoveable Ngata type player, but he is incredibly agile for such a big, strong guy. Two plays stood out to me. In the first half, they had Payne move out to end and rush from a 2 point stance in an obvious passing situation. On another play in the second half, Payne ran down Greg Olsen, well downfield,  on a screen pass.  

 

Yeah he's extremely special.  It's been a while since a one tech as good as him has come into the league.  I can't think of any other dominant one techs who are every down guys that can also play every other technique out to the five at a very high level.  And who get better through the fourth quarter.  He's a once in a blue moon type of talent at the position.

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Give me a ten sack guy who can play the run over a 15 sack guy who can't.  Especially when that ten sack guy NEVER misses a down.

 

You can't force runs worth a damn with an OLB who can't set an edge.

 

I've really come to appreciate Kerrigan the last few years.  He was always made for playing this scheme and this level of defense.  

 

Kerrigan has been effective from the very first day he came into the league.  The same cannot be said for Preston Smith.  Zero sacks is not what you expect from a second round draft pick who may have maxed out his skill set.  The pass rush is noticeably lacking against QBs that release the ball more quickly than Eli (I realize that's a problem for all defenses but the Skins rush is slower to develop than the really elite ones).

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4 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Kerrigan has been effective from the very first day he came into the league.  The same cannot be said for Preston Smith.  Zero sacks is not what you expect from a second round draft pick who may have maxed out his skill set.  The pass rush is noticeably lacking against QBs that release the ball more quickly than Eli (I realize that's a problem for all defenses but the Skins rush is slower to develop than the really elite ones). 

 

We're not really having trouble getting to the QB.  And we've got the best run defense in the NFL.  We're doing it without the benefit of an offense that forces teams to start passing.  Preston Smith is a part of that.  The sacks will come for him.  He's been getting pressure.  He's a solid rotation player.

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50 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We're not really having trouble getting to the QB.  And we've got the best run defense in the NFL.  We're doing it without the benefit of an offense that forces teams to start passing.  Preston Smith is a part of that.  The sacks will come for him.  He's been getting pressure.  He's a solid rotation player.

NO has the top run defense, on paper, but I think in actuality, we are better, given the top back that we have stopped and that we are not playing from ahead all of the time. 

I agree that Preston has been a part of our run defense. How do you think Anderson would do in that department, in Preston's stead? I wouldn't say that we are, "having trouble" getting to the QB. I'd say that this defense is very good, but with some upgrades, could be the kind of elite unit that can drag an underwhelming offense to the Super Bowl. It's not that I think we aren't good, it's that I would love to see us be the kind of defense that people still talk about in 10 years, and I think we actually have the young building blocks to reach that level and stay there for a while. 

 

When the Patriots already had a very good offense or defense, they have continued to add pieces, right? Ditto the Rams team from last year. They were already very good and added pieces anyway, and look where they are now. I'm not saying all of our additions need to be expensive FA acquisitions. I just want to see us striving to reach the next level, especially on defense, where I think we are so close to being special. 

 

I think some of those pieces could already be on the team. I really like SDH as a player, if he can stay healthy, which is a very big if.   

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Getting HaHa and this DL yes I say we potentially have an elite Defense and that is with our shortcoming in CB position which I feel will get much better when Dunbar returns.  If our offense can be a little more productive in the passing game and we remain healthy I don't see us not making a serious run here.

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5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Give me a ten sack guy who can play the run over a 15 sack guy who can't.  Especially when that ten sack guy NEVER misses a down.

 

You can't force runs worth a damn with an OLB who can't set an edge.

 

I've really come to appreciate Kerrigan the last few years.  He was always made for playing this scheme and this level of defense.  We just never had the personnel to run the defense right until now.  What good is forcing a run inside when your inside tacklers are trash?  Similarly, we're going to miss Kerrigan when he's gone.  Teams are going to be spilling runs outside on us for chunk yardage and running off tackle while our talented defensive tackles can do nothing but watch unless we replace Kerrigan with someone good.

 

Guys like Kerrigan don't grow on trees.  He's going to finish his career with 100+ sacks and 16 game seasons every year until that final one when his body breaks down.

 

I agree about Kerrigan. Luckily he is durable and is a weight room junkie. He doesn't win with pure get off and is more a power player with some speed than a speed player with some power. I think he will age well. 

I still disagree about Smith. He is long, and fundamentally sound. He sets an edge. He generates a little spontaneous pressure. As much pressure as we get up the middle though, for Smith to have zero sacks is embarrassing. And, there have been stretches in games where we needed and did not get pressure. Everyone was hoping he would step up this year and he stepped back. The fact that Payne and Allen have improved the middle of the defense so much, to some degree makes everyone look good. I wouldn't especially attribute the play of the defense to Smith. It is the big 3 in the middle, Swearinger, and Kerrigan that have been doing the heavy lifting. 

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