How do you see current society playing out? Headed towards Civil War Lite?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

@Destino

 

the value of a a college degree is going down every year in part because of the rediculous loans like you point out, but also because the trades (electrical, plumbing, welding, etc) are paying more and more.... 

[PeterMP]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

 

Old people are more likely to be on fixed income and rarely have enough money to retire.  They don't need an overall economic benefit to favor tax cuts.  They want prices to rise more slowly and their own pennies to stretch a bit further.  Young people have different concerns and grew up watching supply side economics fail to deliver.  The situation you describe above is simple, and reasonable, self interest.

 

I'm not saying Boomers supporting republicans today isn't helping the wrong side.  They are.  I would very much like if they all simply sat out the next, of lets say four, elections.  I just can't blame old people for prioritizing their self interests when the rest of us are doing the same.

 

Young people are being manipulated for profit as well.  Look at student loans and college costs.  Who doesn't want more people going to college?  No one right?  Well that turned into a huge cash cow for lenders.  Who wants to tell me they saw it coming?  This isn't a small problem because those prices aren't coming back down.  We've succeeded in creating an incredible revenue stream that because so many are now getting degrees are now practically mandatory.  Our young people now have to start their professional lives with more debt than ever before.  Does that feel like progress? 

 

 

1.  It started before they were old.  You know the Reagan Presidency when the debt started to go through the roof.  (Really, Carter vs. Reagan gave the country a choice.  Look at what is happening in the rest of the world in terms of their economic recovery from WWII and adjust or ignore it and keep borrowing money.  The Boomers (and the Greatest Generation) choose the 2nd.)

 

2.  In NY, the prices have come back down (for many people).  For in state tuition, bringing prices back down is pretty simply.  Just increase funding per a student where it was 25 years ago.

 

Which ties nicely into @PleaseBlitz's point.  The Boomer got through college cheaply, but when it came to paying taxes for subsequent generations to have that same advantage, they said no thanks (which required increasing tuition costs).

Edited June 2, 2018 by PeterMP

[88Comrade2000]

10 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

There are still reasonable conservatives out there. They need to take back control of the GOP.

Wrong.  They need to leave the GOP and start over.  The GOP will die it's natural death.

[Renegade7]

19 hours ago, Destino said:

Everything else is a distraction.  Name the issue, and follow the money. 

 

What I'm saying that racism is useful to the major parties.  

 

Take 'em to Church, Des.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Wrong.  They need to leave the GOP and start over.  The GOP will die it's natural death.

Damn, ya'll really believe that's your only option?  Ya'll would have to cut yourselves in half and kill you chances for winning certain elections, I'm a liberal, and even I don't want to see that.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Renegade7

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Damn, ya'll really believe that's your only option?  Ya'll would have to cut yourselves in half and kill you chances for winning certain elections, I'm a liberal, and even I don't want to see that.

I'll be honest.  I don't see a way to fix the GOP, much less one that the GOP would adopt.  That is somewhat part of what drove me to make this thread.  The GOP is an evil powerhouse what won't change.  They will continue to get worse.  And so many are happy to drive right off the cliff with them.

[88Comrade2000]

15 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Take 'em to Church, Des.

 

 

 

Damn, ya'll really believe that's your only option?  Ya'll would have to cut yourselves in half and kill you chances for winning certain elections, I'm a liberal, and even I don't want to see that.

The GOP's decline started long before Trump what they did from Bill Clinton to now under Trump, is irredeemable.  You can't fix a party that is 90% if not higher; rotten to the core. 

 

The few good Conservatives/GOPers left, need to leave and start over.  Loss of power, we see what the GOP does to gain or keep power.  Yeah, it will take a while but they will rebuild.

 

 

As to the OP,  if Trump wins in 2020 and has a full GOP congress:

 

1.  The day after the election you will see rioting in some places, high numbers of suicides in other places.

2.  You will probably see some violence.

3.  I think you will see the bluest areas of blue states, leave the  union  and form new countries.   A good chunk of the pacific coast will become a new country. Some in other blue states.   The big cities stuck in Red States will become City-states like Hong Kong. A blue oasis within the Red state.

 

NYC would be one of those city states, they would ban Trump from reentering the city. He'd probably nuke them.

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Rdskns2000

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

As to the OP,  if Trump wins in 2020 and has a full GOP congress:

 

1.  The day after the election you will see rioting in some places, high numbers of suicides in other places.

2.  You will probably see some violence.

3.  I think you will see the bluest areas of blue states, leave the  union  and form new countries.   A good chunk of the pacific coast will become a new country. Some in other blue states.   The big cities stuck in Red States will become City-states like Hong Kong. A blue oasis within the Red state.

 

NYC would be one of those city states, they would ban Trump from reentering the city. He'd probably nuke them.

Think all that happens with only some violence?  And no way he nukes US soil.

 

What if the Left gets power?  That may actually have an even higher chance of violence. I could see Trump getting his base that riled up. I'm having trouble deciding which side winning has a higher chance of resulting in violence. That's why I'm starting to believe more and more violence is coming.

[Warhead36]

I don't think Trump's base has the means or werewithall to do anything. They're mostly trailer park trash stuck in hickvilles. The rich elite that support him wouldn't care because their pockets are still full and wouldn't risk that in any sort of violent overhaul.

[ShredSkins]

What's Yellowstone up to lately?

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think Trump's base has the means or werewithall to do anything. They're mostly trailer park trash stuck in hickvilles.

I think you are pretty far off.  I know quite a few that are solidly middle class nutjobs.  And pretty much everyone of them, has a ****load of guns.  

[No Excuses]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think you are pretty far off.  I know quite a few that are solidly middle class nutjobs.  And pretty much everyone of them, has a ****load of guns.  

 

Yup. Trump and Hillary pretty much split the white middle class and upper class vote down the middle.

 

Trump's coalition is very broad.

 

I mean I have Indian family members who voted for Trump and are extremely active in local GOP politics. They attend all the expensive GOP donor events that give them access to legislators. They are all willing to tolerate the racism and bigotry as long they:

 

1. Get their taxes cut

2. Get deregulation and policies that give them the upper hand as business owners, while reducing consumer protections that increase their liability for shady ****

[No Excuses]

13 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The big cities stuck in Red States will become City-states like Hong Kong. A blue oasis within the Red state.

 

I have been beating the drum in my local liberal activist circles for the past decade that they need to get over their fetish for federal policy. Every liberal think tank in DC has had an institutional boner for expansive federal legislation while completing ignoring the gains they can make if they focus on enacting liberal policies at the state/local level.

 

Most impact legislation in the US happens in statehouses. The federal government is an inefficient, overburdened mess.

[Nerm]

As to the main question in this thread, I tend to be optimistic about the direction of society.  There is obviously a heightened tone of anger and mistrust between, and within, the political parties.  But I have met a ton of people from across the political spectrum, and I find most people to be decent and reasonable.  There will always be some percentage of people who will be disruptive or violent, though I don't see that as being a likely path for large numbers of people. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

13 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 I tend to be optimistic about the direction of society............... But I have met a ton of people from across the political spectrum, and I find most people to be decent and reasonable.  

How is the weather in Oz this time of year?

 

[Nerm]

12 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

How is the weather in Oz this time of year?

 

 

To be honest, I work in the mental health field, so most people I meet are clients.  I actively approach interactions with clients with goals of understanding their thoughts and avoiding judgments or biases as best as I can.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I'm prepared...

Edited June 3, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[TheGreatBuzz]

Don't know if I should be happy or offended to be last.

[FanboyOf91]

8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think Trump's base has the means or werewithall to do anything. They're mostly trailer park trash stuck in hickvilles. The rich elite that support him wouldn't care because their pockets are still full and wouldn't risk that in any sort of violent overhaul.

 

And billionaire Robert Mercer backs him and his fellow scumbags at Breitbart.

[LD0506]

13 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Don't know if I should be happy or offended to be last.

 

He saved you for dessert, you should be honored.....

[pjfootballer]

[Zguy28]

I wonder how different our society would be without Twitter and Facebook?

[Renegade7]

14 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I'm prepared...

 

Ah, man, what'd I do this time that you'd rather stuff me in a crockpot then listen to my opinion anymore?  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

43 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ah, man, what'd I do this time that you'd rather stuff me in a crockpot then listen to my opinion anymore?  

Nothing personal, just the inevitable conclusion.

[mcsluggo]

On 6/1/2018 at 1:55 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

If they were worse then their parents, there would be more black men getting hung from trees for whistling a a white woman, not nearly non-existent right now. 

 

We're not even close, so if they just want to march around with tiki torches, more power to them, the Internet will put the face out for everyone to see.  And no, I don't believe as a percentage of the country more people support white nationalism then 50 or 100 years ago.  These conversations about racism sometimes I feel take a turn without context of when it was truly out of control, that's not what's happening right now. 

 

I agree it is easier to find and feed those views via the Internet, but we didn't tear the country apart over Jim Crow, we passed the Civil Rights Act.

 

you aren't comparing kids today to their parents.... you are comparing kids today to their great-great-grand-parents.      

 

from the 1880s (ish) to 2016, for the most part the country got gradually less racist  (and from the outside at least, it looked like it was fairly monotonic-one-sided and continuous).   Since 2016, we have stepped back.   Maybe not to 1950 (yet), but we have stepped back.   in 2008, Racists may have had racist thoughts...but they KNEW that at the very least it wasn't socially-acceptable to out yourself, unless you had already confirmed that you were safe and around "friendlies".   Now....?   who gives a ****?   throw out all the racist **** you want, and if it triggers a few snowflakes?  then all the better!   woohaw!!!  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I hope this Renegade is as yummy as the first 6. ? ?