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How do you see current society playing out? Headed towards Civil War Lite?


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EDIT:  Title updated to include the current pandemic and get thoughts on how it will affect society.

 

I’m not a fan of the title of the thread but couldn’t come up with anything better.

 

Anyways, I know I have mentioned it before as has @Bang and a few others.  I guess it is a broad topic so we will see how the thread goes.

 

So, with the current level of discourse between “the two sides” (for lack of a better term), how do you see it all playing out in the end?  Do you think we will see any large-scale violence before things get better?  Civil War?  A Constitutional Crisis that gets fixed without any blood shed and we all go on our merry way?  Does our country survive it?  If so, what comes after?  Do we lose a few states?  Does a foreign power take advantage during our time of weakness?  Does the country stay whole but we see a major overhaul of how government operates, like new constitution level?  What will the military be told to do and will they do it?  

 

And once that is answered, what (if anything) do you plan to do about it or what will you do if/when it comes?  I’m not talking full blown Doomsday Prepper, unless you are in to that which is fine by me.  I actually know a few people like that.  To each their own.

 

Me?  I think we will see large scale violence at some point.  I think it is highly unlikely we will get through all this without bloodshed on some large scale.  I suspect it will be around the time of the next election.  Either Dems pick up enough seats to impeach Trump before the election, Trump loses the election but claims fraud and refuses to leave the White house, or Trump wins the Electoral College but loses popular vote again at which point the Left gets pissed off enough that violence starts.  Whichever it is, I think will be the trigger.  I used to say the chances of this happening were around 10% which is far higher than I ever wanted it to be.  Five years ago, I would have said 0.0001% chance that something like that would ever happen.  Now I think I put it a lot closer to 50% which kinda scares the crap out of me.  Would it be organized enough to be a civil war?  I doubt it at the beginning but depending on how it played out, I could see it ending that way. 

 

Would our country survive it?  I don’t think we would intact.  I could see Texas and/or California saying kick rocks and trying to become their own nation.  Possibly a group of states in the Northeast also.  I don’t think any foreign powers would get too involved because we still have nukes and at that point might not have anything else to lose.  I think they would wait until it is about over and come in to see who they can make friends with while making it clear we are no longer the leaders of the free world.

 

So, what have I done to plan for it?  Not much.  My wife and I have talked (or more accurately drunkenly muttered) what we would do if the world went full on Walking Dead.  That is about the limits of my plans.  I do have some things to fall back on but they are pretty much my hurricane/accident/whatever kits.  I always have a change of clothes and boots in my vehicle.  That is mostly because I have seen enough cars broken down on the side of the road that I know I want to be prepared if I had to walk several miles.  I usually have enough food and water that I could go a good few weeks if I absolutely had to.  And of course, I have several guns and ammo.  That is more as a hobby though.  But it does scare me that it is people on the Right that have more guns and are more proficient with them in general.  I don’t expect them to be too useful in a time like that.  Firing a gun just lets everyone know you have one.  And they probably have bigger ones or more of them.  My wife still lives in Florida and I am up in Virginia.  We did actually have a talk when I moved.  Sadly, I felt it was necessary as Trump had just been elected.  She knows to hide out in the house and that I will do everything I can to get there. 

 

So what are your thoughts?  Think that I am crazy for even thinking about this?  Then say so respectfully and move on.  Are you building a bunker in your back yard because you think Trump, Jr, Eric, and Ivanka are really the 4 horsemen?  That would be interesting but I won’t laugh.  Do you think there won’t be any violence?  If so, how do you see it all playing out considering the divide in our country that seems to only be getting bigger?

 

Anyways, I thought it was an interesting topic.  We’ll see how it goes.

Edited by TheGreatBuzz
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With the impending death of the Boomer generation, I don't see what others see. I see generations (X, millennial, Z) having mostly known (and accepted) only socially liberal policies. 

 

I look around and see my gen (X) and the millennials all have friends (or are themselves) in interracial relationships. Boomers hardly did that in comparison.

 

I think it can only get better from here. To me, this is the low point and last dying breath of hate from the Boomer generation. 

 

 

Edited by The Evil Genius
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23 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I think it can only get better from here. To me, this is the low point and last dying breath of hate from the Boomer generation

I look at videos of Trump rallys and see the general age of people there.  I'd say you are wrong here.  Far too many young people there.

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4 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

My concern with the doomsday scenario is what side will the police/military be fighting for?

 

The answer to that is what will ultimately determine the outcome

It is an interesting question.  I will admit that depending on what I am ordered to do, those civilian clothes in my truck might come out quite quickly.

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I don’t think you’re crazy. I just don’t think we’re close to civil war like conditions. 

 

I see a return of power to the states and people being angry but not angry enough to throw away their livelihood and start killing people they disagree with politically. 

 

I could see someone trying to start something thinking they just need to be the spark to get it going, and i see it ending quickly. 

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30 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I look at videos of Trump rallys and see the general age of people there.  I'd say you are wrong here.  Far too many young people there.

 

I didn't mean to dismiss my generations part in this. We didnt do enough to stand up to our parents ways. Thankfully, the next 2 have been very outspoken.

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I'm afraid the end time is near, the cataclysmic apocalypse referred to in the scriptures of every holy book known to mankind.  It will be an Era fraught with boundless greed & corruption where global monetary systems disintegrate, leaving brother to kill brother for a grain of overcooked rice.  The nations of the civilized world will collapse under the impressive weight of parasitic political conspiracies which remove all hope & optimism from their once faithful citizens.  Around the globe, generations of polluters will be punished for their sins, un-shielded by the ozone layer they have successfully depleted, left to bake in the searing naked rays of light.  Wholesale assassinations served to destabilize every remaining government, leaving the starving & wicked to fend for themselves. 

 

Bloodthirsty renegade cyborgs created by tax-dodging corporations wreck havoc, pissed off androids tired of being slaves to a godless & gutless system, where the rich get richer & the poor get ****ed over and out unleash total worldwide destruction by means of nuclear holocaust annihilating the terrified masses leaving in its torturous wake nothing but vicious, cannibalistic, mutated, radiating, and horribly disfigured hordes of satanic killers begged on revenge, but against whom?  There are so few left alive.  Starvation reigns supreme, forcing unlucky survivors to eat anything & anyone in their path.  Massive earthquakes crack the planets crust like a hollow eggshell causing unending volcanic eruptions, the creatures of the seven seas, unable to escape the certain death upon land, boil in their liquid prison.

 

Disease then circles the earth, plagues & viruses with no known cause or cure, laying waste to whatever draws breath, and human-kind having proven itself to be nothing more than a race of ruthless scavengers fall victim to merciless attacks at the hands of interplanetary alien tribes who seek to conquer our charred remains.

Edited by Spaceman Spiff
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Pessimistic case:

 

Basically, too many college graduates try to enter the elite ranks, find their way is blocked, and decide it's better to start a civil war/wave of violence.

I need to pick up Ages of Discord, but my reading list is long...

 

 

Also, we're currently in an alt-right/white-supremacist wave of violence. The media doesn't cover this at all. We can also add the Cliven Bundys and sovereign citizens (looks like the Vegas shooter was one).

 

Let's not forget that the world is entering an era of water scarcity. The Arab Spring was basically caused by a drought which hit food supplies, and Europe is being swamped by climate-change migrants.

 

If we avoid a Civil War 2, we'll probably have a Mexico/Columbia-style situation where the wealthy parts of America are basically normal and the rest of the country is defacto ruled by local warlords and organized crime gangs.

 

 

 

"Optimistic" case:

 

a. America had it worse during the 60s and 70s. Reading Nixonland and The Invisible Bridge, I'm not sure how what's our equivalent of widespread urban riots, daily bombings by multiple insurgent groups, assassinations, a bungled divisive war, massive social values shifts and technological change, a national crime wave, etc...but we ain't in it today. This too shall pass.

 

b.

We are witnessing the end of the Reagan Republican Party. What was once united around a common political program is now broken into a Trumpite-populist wing and a Kasich-Reaganite wing. These wings do not like each other at all and will drag down the party in nasty factional fights as their national popular vote losses continue to grow. "Doing X to trigger the libs" is not a long-term political program. Trumpism is destructive and will be rejected by both sides of the political aisle.

 

 

Edited by FanboyOf91
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24 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm afraid the end time is near, the cataclysmic apocalypse referred to in the scriptures of every holy book known to mankind.  It will be an Era fraught with boundless greed & corruption where global monetary systems disintegrate, leaving brother to kill brother for a grain of overcooked rice.  The nations of the civilized world will collapse under the impressive weight of parasitic political conspiracies which remove all hope & optimism from their once faithful citizens.  Around the globe, generations of polluters will be punished for their sins, un-shielded by the ozone layer they have successfully depleted, left to bake in the searing naked rays of light.  Wholesale assassinations served to destabilize every remaining government, leaving the starving & wicked to fend for themselves. 

 

Bloodthirsty renegade cyborgs created by tax-dodging corporations wreck havoc, pissed off androids tired of being slaves to a godless & gutless system, where the rich get richer & the poor get ****ed over and out unleash total worldwide destruction by means of nuclear holocaust annihilating the terrified masses leaving in its torturous wake nothing but vicious, cannibalistic, mutated, radiating, and horribly disfigured hordes of satanic killers begged on revenge, but against whom?  There are so few left alive.  Starvation reigns supreme, forcing unlucky survivors to eat anything & anyone in their path.  Massive earthquakes crack the planets crust like a hollow eggshell causing unending volcanic eruptions, the creatures of the seven seas, unable to escape the certain death upon land, boil in their liquid prison.

 

Disease then circles the earth, plagues & viruses with no known cause or cure, laying waste to whatever draws breath, and human-kind having proven itself to be nothing more than a race of ruthless scavengers fall victim to merciless attacks at the hands of interplanetary alien tribes who seek to conquer our charred remains.

Wow.  Where did you get that?

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

People have been predicting the end of civilization since civilization began.  

True.  I'm not predicting the end of civilization though (though others are welcome to).  Possibly the end of the USA as we know it.  Of course hoping I am wrong.  At least most of the time.

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10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

People have been predicting the end of civilization since civilization began.  

 

They usually end up right eventually. :)

 

I see nothing significant in the near term

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I'm also going to put this here because it's a decent read that rises above "North vs. South" or "urban vs. rural".

 

515uMZICQ1L.jpg

11-nations.jpg

 

I would put money on The Far West and Greater Appalachia areas to suffer the worst.

 

Edited by FanboyOf91
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I'm not sure we are headed for an actual civil war yet, but I do think violence is coming. Like someone else said I dont think we are made of the stuff it takes to wage war on our own right now. Especially not citizens. But it does worry me that mental health problems seem to be a staple of our youth now. Add that to the lack of accountability taught from the very top, lack of respect for others in general and the dehumanization of many groups of people (immigrants, the poor, gays and everyone else, honestly. Even poor whites get this treatment these days) and I think that ads up to a very scary possibility. Easy way to get someone to kill us to make thier target less than human. Mentally from what I understand it's the fastest way, and we are working at that ****. 

 

I think we are at a major junction in our democracy right now. We can go one of two directions. What scares me is that the intellectually rich part of our country refuses to talk to each other in ernest. People take sides just cause at this point. Dont even listen to each other anymore. There is no accountability among them either. Everything is always someonelses fault. 

 

This **** doesn't look good. Our greatest gift as a nation is our vast difference in opinion, the ability to express that opinion and our uhh....dont know the word I want here....our want to make things better. Someone help me with that word here pls. What scares me most is that all of that, our differences, are being used against us by people that want to see is destroy ourselves. And its working. 

 

What am I going to do about it? Stay light. No kids. No huge commitments. Be ready to leave the moment they start putting us in camps. 

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Here is a manscript that was published recently:

https://github.com/svmiller/woi/blob/master/woi.pdf

 

The title of the manuscript is "White Outgroup Intolerance and Declining Support for American Democracy".

 

The American right has become more authoritarian.  Americans in general won't go around killing people, even the far-right types, but I bet a lot of them don't mind electing an authoritarian government that will go around killing people. The danger is the demise of democracy.

 

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1 minute ago, redskins59 said:

mericans in general won't go around killing people, even the far-right types, but I bet a lot of them don't mind electing an authoritarian government that will go around killing people.

Okay.  But what will the people do in reaction to this?  Will violent actions be the response?

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5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This thread should get bumped after the midterms.

I'll try to remember that.

4 minutes ago, Destino said:

I don't see violence on the horizon.  Pendulums will swing and time will march on. 

Okay, so how do you see it playing out?  Trump defeated and everyone just carries on?

 

The thread isn't meant to just be a yes/no to if you think violence is coming.  If you don't see violence, what do you see?

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14 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Okay.  But what will the people do in reaction to this?  Will violent actions be the response?

 

I think the response will be nothing. People will fear for their lives, so they will just stay home quietly.  

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When things get this crazy, it doesn't just defuse. 

Crazy people are riling up crazy people and otherwise sane people are swept along by hate filled media rhetoric pumping out a constant diet of fear and anger towards people in our own communities.

This has been built for a long time. whether they realized what the constant harangue would accomplish when applied incessantly for decades is no longer the point. It has.
I know folks think i'm loud and a firebrand-ish type person who hasn't had anything but alarm to say since this pig took office.

But my otherwise sane county had a billboard on the side of a fairly busy road threatening anyone who was to be identified as "liberals' that they had 'better;' get their guns if it turns out Trump is a traitor and gets himself impeached.

 

This is just up the street.

**** these people. Tell me the differenc e between that and the threats Jews received in the years running up to the Holocaust? Haha, Billy-Bob's just funnin' . **** Billy-Bob. Billy-Bob is too stupid to recognize where he is on the slide, and how happily he is playing the stooge that enables what the past has shown us over and over.
i know, i know,, but we keep taking steps down that road, and we keep pretending we aren't. 

 

Now, as to specifics,, i don't know that we'll see a populist revolutionary coup attempted in the traditional sense,, even the most moronic confederate flag headband wearing fatass NRA doughboy has to be smarter than that. No one is rushing the Capitol.
but in smaller scale sense.. church bombings, terrorist activity,, we're already seeing it.  Since it's pretty much been given an encouraging pat on the back by Donny  it'll keep becoming more and more.. and if and when he gets tossed, be it by election or otherwise,, then it will intensify, and where it goes from there.. we'll see. How long it takes before the military has to become involved, who knows.

AND, I do not discount the extreme likelihood of foreign agents here now attempting to radicalize and militarize the stupid, mixing in and blending.

 

I think there are a great many factions that are actively pushing us to violence.

I do not have faith in the average American to either 

A./ notice

B/ care

C/ do anything except react as expected.

 

I hope the military sides with us when it happens. 

 

~Bang

 

 

Edited by Bang
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3 minutes ago, Bang said:

Crazy people are riling up crazy people and otherwise sane people are swept along by hate filled media rhetoric pumping out a constant diet of fear and anger towards people in our own communities.

Exactly.  And the dangers of mob mentality soon follow.

 

4 minutes ago, Bang said:

I hope the military sides with us when it happens

This worries me.  Most polls show the military is pretty divided politically.  In general, the officers that give orders tend to be Left.  But the enlisted who have to carry them out tend to be Right.

 

Here is an interesting article I found.  ****I know nothing of the political leanings of this publication.  Anyways it looks like a couple of experts averaged there is roughly a >33% chance of something happening.  And they compare it to more of a Syria than a traditional North vs South.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-america-civil-war-liberal-conservative-1103-story.html

 

Another interesting article.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/is-america-headed-for-a-new-kind-of-civil-war

 

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5 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

I think the response will be nothing. People will fear for their lives, so they will just stay home quietly.  

 

Actually, to elaborate, an authoritarian government always needs someone to blame.  For Hitler, it was the Jewish people.  Here in America, we see people blaming blacks, Jews (Soros) and Muslims, as well as immigrants (illegal ones, but some oppose legal immigrants as well).  What happens though if all these groups either run away from the country or are completely slaughtered?  Guess what, the authoritarian government will find somebody else to blame.  I have read enough Stormfront to know that a lot of people don't considered Italians to be White--so they are probably the next one to go.  What happens next?  Probably the Irish because they are Catholics.  I can see the people of Polish origin after that.  Maybe move to East Europeans next.  All non- Northern Europeans are targets.

This will probably enforce the one-drop rule after that, which is that if you have even 1 % black blood, you are gone.  At this point, the American population is down to maybe 30%.  Homosexuals gone.  Feminists gone.  

Worst case scenario right here.  

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  • TheGreatBuzz changed the title to How do you see current society playing out? Free Corona For Everyone!!!
  • TheGreatBuzz changed the title to How do you see current society playing out? Headed towards Civil War Lite?

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