Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Sandy Monk]

13 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

He started the game 11/12 then finished 9/20. And you're fine with that?

I'm not.

 

Am I happy that we won? Yes.

 

But I'm expecting more. And as I said here or there on this site, it's not a matter of "IF" he will get it to me, but more of a "WHEN".

 

That tease! ? 

 

Sometimes, it feels like Alex is the ultimate.. slacker. Does just enough.. but gets off on the gamble of seeing it that amount is enough. lol

 

#thegrind

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

As long as Jay is the coach, I suspect those that are celebrating Alex as a key cog in them winning -- isn't going to be a Jay guy for long.

 

Jay may like to get conservative with leads.  But I've heard enough from him and others who cover him that he's not in love with conservative QBs.  Ironically, he thought Kirk was too conservative.   It was Andy Benoit among some others who said if you thought kirk was conservative wow you will see a whole new dimension of conservative with Alex and that doesn't work in synch with Jay's system and Jay eventually will pull his hair out about it.

 

JP Finlay said yesterday that coaches are very frustrated with Alex.  I doubt he was making it up or his sources were leading him astray.  This style isn't up Jay's alley.  Finlay said some in the FO bought into the 2017 narrative and now aren't sure if that's the 2017 guy.

 

I do agree if they keep winning they won't rock the boat.  But I am not buying that behind the scenes they are thinking they are winning because of Alex.  A lot of mention even from the players that Peterson has been the MVP.  Like i said Peterson has helped taken his teams to the playoffs multiple times with subpar QB play and yeah with QBs who threw picks, too. 

 

IMO both of these articles are revealing

“Until we get going offensively, we have to win games like this,” Gruden said. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-are-cruising-along-in-first-place-but-it-doesnt-always-look-like-it/2018/10/28/0afcf24c-dadb-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html?utm_term=.f32942abbccc

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/23/redskins-winning-spite-jay-gruden-not-having-fun-a/

 

“I think the critical side of me, the coaching side of me, there are some things we’ve got to clean up. Get his eyes in certain progressions a little bit quicker and maybe get off some a little bit quicker. Sometimes he hangs on too long giving guys too much of a chance where he needs get off of them, get to the next guy. But for the most part, I thought he improved from last week to this week and there is still some improvement to do for everybody across the board. I like where he’s at. I like that he’s buying in and he’s learning.”

 

Here’s what Gruden had to say about his prize $94 million quarterback the day after the big win Sunday at home against Dallas.

“He’s missed some throws uncharacteristically, for sure. Some of it is he’s felt a little pressure, hasn’t gotten his feet set from time to time. But, he has made some great throws under duress. Escape the pocket a few times getting out of trouble. Only took one sack yesterday which is good, [offensive] line did a pretty good job for the most part. So, there are things we can all improve on. Receivers, tight ends, backs, and we will.”

 

Looks, progression, get rid of the ball quicker, fixating on receivers, missing throws, getting feet set — other than all that, Smith has been fine.

This has been the sanitized version of Gruden’s assessment of his quarterback.

I’m guessing it may a little tougher behind the scenes.

I’m guessing it’s driving him crazy. And the craziest part of it? They’re winning.

And they may keep winning without Gruden’s favorite toy, the quarterback, being the reason for their success.

That’s got to be a little maddening.

 

After all, he didn’t seem particularly thrilled with Cousins, even when he was throwing the ball 48 times a game and completing 35 passes for 425 yards, when the quarterback was everything about the Washington Redskins.

 

Gruden was passively critical of Cousins a number of times, including this from a year ago: “I think there is going to be a point in time where he (Cousins) is going to have to give some receivers some chances that maybe look a little covered, but give them a chance to uncover or give them a chance to make a play. That’s probably the one area that we can force the issue on a little bit to give these receivers chances down the field.”

 

This following the little back-and-forth from a Sports Illustrated article, when Cousins told the magazine that if he played quarterback like Gruden wanted, he would throw 20 interceptions per year. To which Gruden responded, “He’d throw 60 touchdowns, too.”

That was Gruden uncensored, revealing his true feelings about turnovers and production. For all this talk about Smithand his gift for protecting the ball, for Gruden, the juice is always worth the squeezing.

 

So far this year, Smith isn’t squeezing drops — much less a glass of juice — out of the quarterback position for his coach. So how much fun can Gruden really be having?

[Sandy Monk]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

What does is that the QB and the scheme are not a good fit. And since we're paying a QB $71 million guaranteed, that's a problem

 

 

I thank you for at least explaining your outlook, and will leave it at that.  

[Taylor 36]

36 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

“Failures are expected by losers...” ~ Joe Gibbs

 

#deliciousirony

You're right.  There are several fans here that over look the failures of our QB because those failures were expected due to his playing history.  In the end, that's is why the team will be losers.  It is so sad that we are finally getting the pieces together: a stout defense, a solid running game, a reliable kicking game, but now we are lacking at the most important position.  Some people are dismissing this because they are awe struck by the mirage of a 5-2 start.  Others, like myself, are upset, because it is such a waste of the team to have such bad QB play.  And, it is inexcusable.  A 14 year vet should be playing better than this.  This team could be primed to do some damage this year, who would have thought?  Unfortunately, the QB play as it is is going to prevent that from happening, and anyone thinking that this team will be able to make a significant run against a stronger schedule, never mind the playoffs, is kidding themselves.  I am still not sure why some people seem to be happy about that.  I've heard people say that everyone should enjoy the ride.  For most people looking ahead, it's hard to enjoy the ride when you know the bridge ahead has collapsed and the brakes don't work.

 

6 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So missing a wide open receiver by at least 5 yards is style points? He's a 14 years seasoned vet. That should not even happen.

 

So Alex is winning because the Giants DB doesn't know how to catch a ball?

That is scary thinking here.

And I'm no Kirk truthers or Alex haters. Put me in the Kleese category, I only care about Redskins, and not really who their QB is. I just expect them to produce a better product on the field.

 

I would rather say that the D did it...

We were 4-2 in 2015 and 3-3 in 2016. So what's the point in comparing with Kirk last year? You could have chosen 2015. Oh wait...

So you went with the stat that suited your argument, so that is irrelevant here.

 

Well, I'm requoiting it, you said it:

 

You're the one calling it "perfect".

I'm expecting a bit more from something perfect. Because, so far, he definately is not.

 

You're mixing things here.

You can enjoy the ride, and still be critical of how your team played.

 

In fact, losers tends to contend themselves with what they did and sits here.

Winners go on with what went wrong and try to improve, even if they win.

 

You can lay yourself and drink your kool aid all you want, we're not winning because of Alex Smith. We're winning despise him being bad. Which is very telling of the rest of team. Now you can be fine with him and his play style so far. Good for you, I'm not. And I'm pretty sure Alex Smith isn't pleased with his play so far.

 

He started the game 11/12 then finished 9/20. And you're fine with that?

I'm not.

 

Am I happy that we won? Yes.

 

But I'm expecting more. And as I said here or there on this site, it's not a matter of "IF" he will get it to me, but more of a "WHEN".

Excellent points, but keep in mind who you are responding to.  That pretty much says it all, but they will go over his head or be completely ignored.  IT's his posting MO.

[Sandy Monk]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As long as Jay is the coach, I suspect those that are celebrating Alex as a key cog in them winning -- isn't going to be a Jay guy for long.

 

Jay may like to get conservative with leads.  But I've heard enough from him and others who cover him that he's not in love with conservative QBs. 

 

cross them fingers, bro.  

[Destino]

13 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get it, I really do.  I don’t think anyone should be mad at the record.  A lot of teams would love to win in spite of their QB.  But I think the primary reason for the lunacy in some of these posts is because they hate being told that Smith sucks, particularly by people that told them he sucked prior to playing a down here.  You can literally go back in time and find the posts by the same folks, sounding like dummies about how good he was going to be.  But he’s not good, and everyone else is.

 

Please avoid casual insults of this kind as they invariably lead to hurt feelings and more insults.  Thanks!

[Taylor 36]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

That tease! ? 

 

Sometimes, it feels like Alex is the ultimate.. slacker. Does just enough.. but gets off on the gamble of seeing it that amount is enough. lol

 

#thegrind

 

 

He really likes to gamble then.  His second half play especially has been putrid.

 

People keep bringing up the Cowboys win.  It is great to beat them, always, but let's be honest as a fan base.  That was pure luck.  If that FG goes through the uprights, we go to overtime, and I really don't like our chances.  The main reason why that FG attempt was even possible?  Because our 14 year veteran QB saved them a TO by running out of bounds.  Let's not forget that we wold have lost if it wasn't for a defensive TD. We need better QB play, and should expect it for the money we've guaranteed him and his experience.

[Est.1974]

Perhaps Gruden should learn to love a conservative QB. It could be just what he needs to keep himself in a HC position.

[Burgold]

I guess one other thing to consider, which I'm considering because of @KDawg's great threads, is the Louvao effect. Both the run game and the passing game suffered with Louvao out and Smith like most QBs with immediate pressure up the middle developed happy feet. We've seen the run game improve dramatically with Shawn back. Likewise, Alex may be regaining his trust in his line.

[Sandy Monk]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

He really likes to gamble then.  His second half play especially has been putrid.

 

People keep bringing up the Cowboys win.  It is great to beat them, always, but let's be honest as a fan base.  That was pure luck.  If that FG goes through the uprights, we go to overtime, and I really don't like our chances.  The main reason why that FG attempt was even possible?  Because our 14 year veteran QB saved them a TO by running out of bounds.  Let's not forget that we wold have lost if it wasn't for a defensive TD. We need better QB play, and should expect it for the money we've guaranteed him and his experience.

 

let's be further honest then.. there will always be a " but, and someone got lucky, and we wold have lost if it " from some fans... and hey man... do what you do... 

 

Perfectly natural.

[bobandweave]

 

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

to me the 2nd point is obvious, and IMO its not the one you mention.  Its not that Alex is not throwing INTs.  It's that dude below.

 

Your missing the point. Sure AP is helping tremendously but this team expected Darrius Guice to be the guy rushing the ball so they backed into AP. We all knew the stats going into the season. Last in the league in rushing the ball, last in the league at stopping the opposing RB. The areas of the team needed addressed and they were. Even with them being addressed I fundamentally disagree that's all they had to do to be where they are now. 

 

The club moved on from a turnover prone QB from last season to one who is not. This effect alone I was saying last December would win them more games. Kirk Cousins week after week does some bone headed wtf are you thinking plays. Those didn't stop when he left here, I already posted the video of his pick 6 last night but the weeks before

 

 

 

We aren't seeing these types of plays this year but we both know we seen plenty of them in the past. Not to mention his horrific clock management plays. In his own words

 

 

 

Yet every game he makes beautiful plays that make you look and say "WOW". The loss of the bad plays is helping this team more than you are letting on. That's my point. What you saw Kirk do here he is doing in Minnesota. We got better by losing that. 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

Please avoid casual insults of this kind as they invariably lead to hurt feelings and more insults.  Thanks!

 

Not to mention the occasional "Hi there"

[dckey]

15 minutes ago, megared said:

 

 

Actually Doctson had the 2nd most separation on his caught passes yesterday (3.66 yards), trailing only Mo Harris (5 yards).  Richardson finished at the bottom of tracked WRs/TEs with 1.83 yards of separation.  (For reference, the league average is 2.79 yards)

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/game-center

 

I think back to the catch where Richardson had to contort his body to come back to a ball...whether it was due to him stumbling, or a poor throw, or a combination of both...there was absolutely no way he was going to get YAC on that particular play.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't remember there being very many plays where Smith is getting the ball to receivers in a rhythmic, timed fashion.  And these guys aren't going to get much separation, but getting the ball before a DB can recognize the route you're running is more of a contributor at this level to YAC, than actual separation on the route.  

This troubles me even more, if Doctson and Harris had the widest separation from DB when they caught the ball but no or low yac then this shows even more what I'm saying.  ODB had 2.67 yards of separation, but had more yac then all of them, this isn't just rhythm passes, but also a product of a playmakers, someone that can take a 5 yard pass and turn it into a TD.  

[bobandweave]

35 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So missing a wide open receiver by at least 5 yards is style points? He's a 14 years seasoned vet. That should not even happen.

 

So Alex is winning because the Giants DB doesn't know how to catch a ball?

 

Show us one QB who doesn't miss a throw in his career. I will wait for you. Can't do it because no one is perfect but I will wait

 

Quote

That is scary thinking here.

And I'm no Kirk truthers or Alex haters. Put me in the Kleese category, I only care about Redskins, and not really who their QB is. I just expect them to produce a better product on the field.

 

Wow so the first day after being 5-2 for the first time in a decade all you can say is "I expect them to be better"....ever heard that Rome wasn't built in a day?

 

 

Quote

 

I would rather say that the D did it...

We were 4-2 in 2015 and 3-3 in 2016. So what's the point in comparing with Kirk last year? You could have chosen 2015. Oh wait...

So you went with the stat that suited your argument, so that is irrelevant here.

 

How your twisted mind thinks that 4-2 or 3-3 is the same as 5-2 has me worried about your mental capacity. Look bud those aren't the same things. Yet you called me using stats that suited my argument? What the hell is this? LOL, some people. Please if your going to push your agenda then don't steer it my way. Facts are facts and made up BS like your posting about me there is exactly that, BS. Good day

 

[Llevron]

42 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

To your second point, while I think that sure, the more he plays in the system, the better he will feel, I don't think he's ever going to be a drop back passer. It's just not him. After 13 years in the league, that's not going to change.

 

I'm surprised he hasn't figured it out and has lasted this long if I'm being honest. 

 

42 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

The only think I did expect was that he ball placement would be better. So far it's been bad, and he's been inaccurate for what his past has shown. I do think that will get better, and I certainly hope it does. If he can improve that, I think we score more TD's and we become much tougher to beat.

 

If he can manage to throw just one more TD a game we would be in much better situation than we are now and an actual contender if everything else stays the same. 

 

Though I dont think we are gonna get that from him. Grudens disappointment is kinda worrying. Hes usually a "we will get it working" guy. 

 

On the other hand, I never looked at him as more than a delayed handoff to the evental rookie successor to Cousins. Hopefully we draft someone THIS OFFSEASON and dont waste anymore of Trent, Ryan, and the rest of our Cores time here. We ain't getting another Trent William's and hes not getting any younger. 

[Taylor 36]

4 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

 

Your missing the point. Sure AP is helping tremendously but this team expected Darrius Guice to be the guy rushing the ball so they backed into AP. We all knew the stats going into the season. Last in the league in rushing the ball, last in the league at stopping the opposing RB. The areas of the team needed addressed and they were. Even with them being addressed I fundamentally disagree that's all they had to do to be where they are now. 

 

The club moved on from a turnover prone QB from last season to one who is not. This effect alone I was saying last December would win them more games. Kirk Cousins week after week does some bone headed wtf are you thinking plays. Those didn't stop when he left here, I already posted the video of his pick 6 last night but the weeks before

 

 

 

We aren't seeing these types of plays this year but we both know we seen plenty of them in the past. Not to mention his horrific clock management plays. In his own words

 

 

 

Yet every game he makes beautiful plays that make you look and say "WOW". The loss of the bad plays is helping this team more than you are letting on. That's my point. What you saw Kirk do here he is doing in Minnesota. We got better by losing that. 

 

 

 

You should watch the videos you post.  Diggs stopped on his route.  Kirk threw the ball where it was supposed to be.  That INT was on Diggs, not the Kirk.  This isn't even opinion.  Collinsworth was talking about, the Sirius XM crew was talking about.  The cameras showed Kirk talking with Diggs about it on the sideline and Diggs taking ownership. It was a mistake by the WR, and that happens.  All players make mistakes.  It was a big one here, unfortunately for the Vikings and their fans.  But, to post that video as evidence that Kirk is a turnover machine just shows your bias and hate towards Kirk and/or your lack of understanding of the game of football and the QB position.  I'm sure you'll post the video again for a third time in another page or two, because that is your MO.  But, hey, at least you can't say that you weren't corrected.  

[bobandweave]

Edit. Saw the message, sorry for my previous post. Taking time off to avoid a Hi there. 

5 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

You should watch the videos you post.  Diggs stopped on his route.  Kirk threw the ball where it was supposed to be.  That INT was on Diggs, not the Kirk. 

 

What was Diggs to do? The defender was in his face. If Diggs kept running he's getting a penalty. Kirk should have seen that and not thrown the ball. That's the difference between Alex and Kirk. Kirk throws it and loses his team the game, and people still defend him. Alex would see the coverage and either take a sack or run with it. I'm absolutely done speaking with you. 

 

[Taylor 36]

2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Nothing goes over my head, including the fact your posting on a Redskins forum garbage I bolded. Who the hell goes onto a team message forum spouting off nonsense like that and gets away with it? If you think the teams losers then go find another team to root for. Why waste your time here? I barely get on this forum these days and to come here and see some asshole making comments like that disgust me. 

Aw, so it's "the my stick has been called out, so I'll resort to insults and acting like I'm God of the internet and telling people to go be fans of another team" tactic.  How not surprising.  Like Smith playing to his history, your posting to yours.  Good luck with that, BOB!

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I'm surprised he hasn't figured it out and has lasted this long if I'm being honest. 

 

 

If he can manage to throw just one more TD a game we would be in much better situation than we are now and an actual contender if everything else stays the same. 

 

Though I dont think we are gonna get that from him. Grudens disappointment is kinda worrying. Hes usually a "we will get it working" guy. 

 

On the other hand, I never looked at him as more than a delayed handoff to the evental rookie successor to Cousins. Hopefully we draft someone THIS OFFSEASON and dont waste anymore of Trent, Ryan, and the rest of our Cores time here. We ain't getting another Trent William's and hes not getting any younger. 

 

Some guys never do. RGIII is a perfect example of that. If he was here now, with our D and AP, he'd be talked about as being "great". Even if he is not a drop back passer. And, if your system is a good match for that, it's one thing. But most NFL offenses are rhythm passing offenses.

 

I'm not even concerned as much about the amount of TD's He's on pace for 19 or 20, and that is actually good for Alex. I'm more worried about his ball placement (which kills YAC) and overall inaccuracy. Also, not going through his progressions. At this point in his career, that is completely unacceptable.

 

To your 3rd point, I agree, with one big issue. You don't give the kind of contract to a placeholder. If that is really the case, you go with Colt. 2 years @ 7 million and use the rest of the cap to build a team around the shiny new rookie you want. The FO though they could win now with Smith. You don't give 71 million guaranteed if you don't.

[Wildbunny]

22 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

How your twisted mind thinks that 4-2 or 3-3 is the same as 5-2 has me worried about your mental capacity. Look bud those aren't the same things. Yet you called me using stats that suited my argument? What the hell is this? LOL, some people. Please if your going to push your agenda then don't steer it my way. Facts are facts and made up BS like your posting about me there is exactly that, BS. Good day

Now you are being funny...

 

You camed here talking about Smith besting Kirk's score against the NFC East last year to prove he was a better QB. And I'm the one stirring the pot here?

Facts are Kirk had better end results than Smith at some point, with no D and no RB. A luxury Smith now have. As SIP said, that's a 2-14 team without D and RB right now.

 

Last, keep your insults at home and go back to reading the rules around here. Thank you.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

16 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

You should watch the videos you post.  Diggs stopped on his route.  Kirk threw the ball where it was supposed to be.  That INT was on Diggs, not the Kirk.  This isn't even opinion.  Collinsworth was talking about, the Sirius XM crew was talking about. 

 

Kirk should have thrown it at Diggs feet and moved on. Even if Diggs caught it, they get a 3 yard gain .. maybe if everything works out 100% right. Just forcing the ball on a dead play when the return on risk was peanuts.

 

Alex is a big fan of just killing a play. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Poor BMitch on the radio getting the same wrath from fans that we are, because he’s harping on the passing game.  Like he said, the real loser mentality is being content with it.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Alex is a big fan of just killing a play. 

Touché.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, megared said:

 

I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt Gruden redesigned his offense to cater to Smith's strength and weaknesses.  While I'll question Gruden's situational play calling all day, nothing I've seen leads me to question the effectiveness of the scheme itself.  IF Smith was executing it to a satisfactory level, and guys still weren't getting open, would be one thing, but we're still seeing him acclimate himself to the offense.  

 

 

 

 

He better design his offense to Smith's strength.  He doesn't need to scrap the whole thing, but playcalling needs to be absolutely to what Smith is the most comfortable executing.  

[Wildbunny]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

He better design his offense to Smith's strength.  He doesn't need to scrap the whole thing, but playcalling needs to be absolutely to what Smith is the most comfortable executing.  

Narrative during Training Camp and OTAs was that Smith enabled Jay Gruden to open up the whole playbook...

[Burgold]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Poor BMitch on the radio getting the same wrath from fans that we are, because he’s harping on the passing game.  Like he said, the real loser mentality is being content with it.

 

 

 

 

Touché.

No one should be content with it. Everyone should be wanting improvement. However, it's also important to build upon the good stuff, acknowledge the good stuff, and, as fans, cheer and revel in the good stuff.

 

After all, we have really limited power to change the bad stuff. More, if you do the Chicken Little thing and do nothing but endlessly complain and grouse and kvetch, people tune you out and tune out the reasonable points you may point out.

 

I mean it's fine to say that the we need more chicken wire around the coup, but it's a little wonky to shout WOLF when there's none in sight.