Game of Thrones Season 8

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I don't see how Tyrion survives at this point. Or even if he would want to. I just don't see him doing everything he's done to the be the hand to a tyrant.

 

She finally ignored him, gave into her base nature, and....um...won.

 

She really spiked the football though.

 

Need to just catch her on the potty with a crossbow, if she doesn't kill him first do something with dying for.

[Yohan]

47 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Jon, Tyrion ... Sansa (though she's a bit out of reach) are on the Mad Queen checklist for death or punishment ...

30 minutes by Dragon tops.

[Bacon]

But guys, we knew Dany was crazy like the Mad King because, in the "previously on" segment, she was hearing voices a la "Dental plan! Lisa needs braces!" 

 

That said more than eight seasons of storytelling ever could. 

[visionary]

1 hour ago, StillUnknown said:

 

They gotta stop talking

The article is kind of interesting though.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/13/18617844/game-of-thrones-got-season-8-hbo-final-the-bells-daenerys-targaryen-kings-landing-massacre-recap

Quote

It’s manifestly unclear why “making this personal” didn’t just involve tearing down the Keep to get to her enemy Cersei Lannister, who just executed Dany’s friend and adviser Missandei, and instead involved massacring women and children. She’s obviously suffering because her lover Jon Snow has pulled back from her after realizing she’s his aunt. She’s watching the process of her closest confidants disappearing — Jorah dying to save her from the undead, Missandei murdered, Varys betraying her, Tyrion failing her for the millionth time — and she clearly sees that the men of the North love Jon more than they love her, and they will rally to his side and support him as king, rather than embracing her, a woman and a foreigner in their eyes.

 

But taking that rage out on the weakest, most helpless people available still feels frustratingly out of character for her. It’s a betrayal not just of her people, but of all her ideals and goals. “I am not here to be queen of the ashes,” Daenerys tells her ally Olenna Tyrell in season 7. Now she’s exactly that — though probably not for long since it falls on the last of her allies to punish her for what she’s done.

 
There’s one thing worth considering: the lead-up to Daenerys’ massacre may feel rushed and clumsy, hinging on Varys’ not particularly compelling claim that madness runs in the Targaryen family, and that when a new Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin to see whether they’ll be stable or monstrous. Her supposed dark side has never been all that evident. Evidence like her lack of sympathy when her awful, vicious brother earned his grotesque fate, or her willingness to execute Randyll Tarly and his son Dickon for grossly betraying her, seems weak at best. But one thing has been consistent about her character: she wants to be loved. She believes she’s the rightful heir to the Iron Throne and that she comes as a liberator to her people. Even in “The Bells,” in the depths of her depression and despair, she talks about freeing Westeros from tyranny — even if she’s focusing on saving future generations at the expense of the current one.

 

When she arrives in King’s Landing, she truly believes the people will take up arms against Cersei and welcome her as the rightful heir. They don’t. They surrender, but they aren’t glad to see her, and they don’t fight for her. Maybe her sudden decision to “make it personal” isn’t because Jon rejected her or because the North is about to. Maybe it’s because she’s spent all this time fighting for people she thought should love her, and when she realizes they never will, she’s willing to let their world burn to punish them.

 

 

By the way, I kind of wish they had named it something other than, "The Bells".  It seems kind of weak for such an important episode.  Why not 'Queen of Ashes'? (unless that's the finale title)

Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary

[KevinthePRF]

Just rewatched. It's as bad as the first time.  I've never been a show writer.  But how does show writers come to the decision to do a complete 180 in one episode on THREE major character arcs built up over the course of the entire show run? Just baffling. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What was the season where nothing ****ing happened at all? Was that season 5?

 

I keep coming back to this. Martin doesn't have the first clue how to finish this. He clearly needs four or five more books to even have a chance at it, and he doesn't want to do it.

 

So, they were given half a story that was impossible to end and decided to end it.

 

Here we are.

 

I'm happy because we have an ending.

 

Bye Bye, Hound. You were always too beautiful for this world.

[max21]

I’m not so sure what to make of the episode. They definitely nerfed the scorpions but it did seem like one scene after she burned the fleet in black water bay she flew drogon more vertically and maybe figured out how to fly around them? I was sorta hoping for dragon armor or something like that.  I just wish Dany had more of a reason to go full on mad queen and lay waste to KL, like someone said Rhaegal dying in last nights episode instead of episode 4 would have given her more reason to do what she did. Visually it was a great episode and I enjoyed it more than most probably because I cared way less about Cerseis plot than the Night Kings. It was sorta fitting seeing Jaime and Cersei die together, just wish it was more satisfying. Can’t believe their is only 1 episode left, I’ve never invested so much time in a show ever and it’s kinda sad we only have one left. 

[bearrock]

50 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

What was the season where nothing ****ing happened at all? Was that season 5?

 

I keep coming back to this. Martin doesn't have the first clue how to finish this. He clearly needs four or five more books to even have a chance at it, and he doesn't want to do it.

 

So, they were given half a story that was impossible to end and decided to end it.

 

Here we are.

 

I'm happy because we have an ending.

 

Bye Bye, Hound. You were always too beautiful for this world.

 

In many ways, Martin is even more screwed than D&D because the book Dany is a lot more nuanced than the show Dany.  Show Dany has those traits in common with a bloodthirsty conqueror, whereas the book takes more time to show Dany agonizing over the impossible decisions she has to deal with in Essos.  I think GRRM genuinely has no idea how to believably take Dany where he wants to take her (on top of the ashes of King's Landing).  I think there are some commonalities with the Star Wars story telling in that respect.  How did the great Jedi Anakin Skywalker fall to become Darth Vader and end up hunting down the last of the jedi order?  Why did Luke disappear in the Galaxy's greatest hour of need?  How does Danaerys Targaryen, who has all the trappings of a heroine, go from Breaker of Chains to Queen of Ashes?  If done right, it is a fascinating tale to tell.  If done poorly, people are left with WTF was that?

 

Sandor was a fabulous character.  Entirely believable character arc.  Shades of gray and conflict all over the place.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

So, they were given half a story that was impossible to end and decided to end it.

 

 

Regardless, if they are worth being in this industry or actually show running and writing for a project as massive as game of thrones, they should be more than capable of writing a decent conclusion. It’s actually easier for them because they had already eliminated like 100 book characters and about 50 sub plots. 

 

All they had to do was bring it home in a way that stayed true to their character arcs and plot points that had been setup and built up for 6 seasons and they couldn’t. 

 

Theyre either hacks or they are lazy 

[DogofWar1]

Honestly the thing that annoys me more than anything, and I do mean anything, is the scorpions.

 

Like they could have done so much with them!

 

My thought was that they were going to illustrate some greater point about the march of technology, in that even if Dany won now with dragons, it would only be a matter of time until someone invented an even better model or got a lucky shot.  In a war of magic vs. Technology, magic had the upper hand for a while but now technology was winning, and magic truly was going to leave the world.

 

Further this would presumably force Dany to learn how to rule without her dragons or slave armies (because they all died at Winterfell and you cannot convince me otherwise).  She has to win the throne on merit and ideas, not force of arms.

 

And maybe that could be what pushed her over the edge.  Maybe Drogon was injured in the fight at King's landing.  Maybe he died shortly thereafter.  But something happens to demonstrate that the march of history will leave her dragons behind.

 

Shoot, that'd be the perfect catalyst for her to go crazy.

 

She dive bombs the fleet (really divebombs, not the fake divebomb they did which was really like a 44 degree angle), and destroys most of the scorpions.  She busts open the walls.  She lands near a bunch of people and starts to talk about how they are free and stuff and they keep running from her instead of worshipping her.  Maybe you get a couple yelling "Cersei save us" (with some build up in previous episodes of her giving speeches about how she'll protect them).

 

And then someone fires a scorpion bolt into the dragon's leg.

 

Maybe it's a soldier, maybe it's a fearful civilian.  Probably better if its a fearful civilian.

 

But either way, her dragon just took a bolt to the leg after she was trying to get the people to rally to her.  Instead they run and scream.

 

She views the people now as thankless thralls of Cersei, and decides killing them is fitting.

 

Dracaris all day.

 

And boom.  Descent to madness works perfectly.

[TradeTheBeal!]

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

13 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Regardless, if they are worth being in this industry or actually show running and writing for a project as massive as game of thrones, they should be more than capable of writing a decent conclusion. It’s actually easier for them because they had already eliminated like 100 book characters and about 50 sub plots. 

 

 

You need therapy, man.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

11 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Descent to madness works perfectly.

 

That requires effort. If anything the last two seasons have shown us that the writing is an afterthought. Whatever the simplest and easiest way to get something done will be the way it happens, story and character be damned. 

 

Which is a tragedy for everyone involved in the show because every other aspect of this show is still top notch. The writing is the most important part though and it’s what is dragging this series along and destroying its reputation. Season 1 had a pretty major battle where Jaime was captured and it happened off screen yet it didn’t matter because the writing and characters were so great. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

You need therapy, man.

 

Becauee I want a quality conclusion to a story that I love instead of lazy meaningless writing? 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Becauee I want a quality conclusion to a story that I love instead of lazy meaningless writing? 

 

That and your insanity.

[max21]

22 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

 

And maybe that could be what pushed her over the edge.  Maybe Drogon was injured in the fight at King's landing.  

 

And then someone fires a scorpion bolt into the dragon's leg.

 

 

Yeah I agree. Many people have said also that Rhaegal should have been alive during episode 5, while the bells were ringing and the Lannister army was surrendering, somebody (maybe Euron) got a hold of a scorpion and then killed Rhaegal during surrender which then pushed her over the edge. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

11 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

 

That's good except it then jusitifes Dany's genocide. And then we are left with what? A lady with two dragons is dangerous.

 

I don't know if I made this argument here, but I've definitely made it in real life. Dany is basically the kid from the Twilight Zone who could wish people in the corn fields.

 

Once she walked out of the fire with those dragons, she was the most powerful person in the world. She was basically a very young girl given the power of life and death over everyone on the planet.

 

And everyone seems to be missing the fact that she is now the ruler of this entire ****ing planet. (At least what we can see). She rules the Dotrhaki when she's there. She rules Mereen and the slave cities. I can't remember if she took over Qarth, but she can clearly take that place any time she wants. She rules these places because the dragons tipped the scale.

 

It literally took a magical undead zombie with a magical harpoon and a million other zombies to make her slightly vulnerable. And then it took really the dumbest scene in the entire series to get her down to one dragon. She clearly could have conquered King's Lady five minutes after she landed.

 

Again, they did a poor setting this up this year, but the foundation of this turn is all in place. To have the power to literally rule the world.....and then be questioned because some guy was born twelve weeks before you or whatever would be a lot to reconcile.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I keep coming back to this. Martin doesn't have the first clue how to finish this. He clearly needs four or five more books to even have a chance at it, and he doesn't want to do it.

 

The story doesn't have an end. That's why Martin stopped writing it.

 

Martin had some big ideas and undertook the writing of one of the most ambitious High Fantasy series ever.  His knowledge of the medieval world is manifest in his writing.  And he has more lyrical talent and writes with better style than almost any other fantasy writer I've read.

 

But there was quite a bit of hubris in his idea that he could write a great heroic epic without heroes.  That he knew better than a 4,000 year old literary tradition of telling stories that matter through the narrative structure of the tale of heroes lives and doings.  I think he clearly realized he was writing a giant dog bites man story by the end of the third book and lost his inspiration.  ASOIAF is an interesting literary experiment that failed and failed more spectacularly than any other fantasy series I can think of.  But it did achieve some interesting things and there is always something to be learned from the failure of experiments.

[StillUnknown]

this season is killing my anticipation for the prequels

 

i'm ready to be done with the world in totality

[SkinsFanRob]

I’m trying to figure how Tyrion even lived to make it at kings landing. Wouldn’t they have realized Jamie was gone by then 

[Warhead36]

This season really should have been a full fledged 10 episode order.

[max21]

12 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

this season is killing my anticipation for the prequels

 

i'm ready to be done with the world in totality

Me too but apparently one of them is about the Children of the Forrest and the first men, so uhhh who am I kidding I’m definitely gunna watch. 

[bearrock]

8 minutes ago, SkinsFanRob said:

I’m trying to figure how Tyrion even lived to make it at kings landing. Wouldn’t they have realized Jamie was gone by then 

Actually, they could've used that.  Have Tyrion spill the guts to Dany after the escape is discovered.  They have a heated argument because even if Tyrion's scheme works, Cersei would get away.  In the end, she acquiesces to her advisers that letting Cersei go is the regal thing to do.  

 

Then she sits on top of the burning walls and says **** this.  That **** killed my dragon and betrayed me in the war against NK.  I'm not letting that monster off the hook even if I have to burn down the entire King's Landing.  That crosses the line without letting Dany off the hook, but in a believable way in keeping with her character.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Thre are 1000 better ways to make this believable even with the little time and episodes they had left. It’s telling that in nearly every decision they took the seemingly easiest way to get to the plot point they wanted 

 

Just have her destroy the red keep and burn the unarmed Lannister soldiers. Then in her anger and rage burning the soldiers thru the city she accidentally kills Arya: we can understand her rage and burning the soldiers and keep however awful and horrifying it is. They are her enemies and have wronged her. But we didn’t forgive her for giving in to her madness because she killed Arya. Hell even have Arya saving the mother and child when it happens to really drive the point home

 

I mean heck, Arya has no purpose left in this story. She was supposed to be the cautionary tale of letting revenge eat away at your heart and consuming you as you become a monster but the show was never interested in that and always just celebrated her dark moments like chopping people to pieces and feeding them to her enemies or massacring 100+ men at once etc. They kinda played lip service to it at the end with the Hounds comments to her but it ultimately falls flat when they have celebrated her horrific deeds before and even made her worthy of being the hero that kills the NK. So why not just kill her here and further the story in the process? 

 

We dont make Daenerys an evil super villain monster in an instant. She has complexity. We can sympathize with why she did what she did but in the end, we can’t be on her side due to this streak of madness within her. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Dany accidentally killing Arya doesn't make her a monster; it makes her a tragic figure.

 

Question for the book nerds, in 800,000 words that stopped in 1999, did Martin ever alluded to Dany being a monster? Do you think this was his choice of an ending?

 

Not that it ever is going to happen, but the fat man telling the show runners what to do, seeing the reaction, and then going in a totally different direction would be a bold choice.