Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[max21]

15 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

You may be right, but a big part of building for the future is having a long range plan at QB. Traditionally, that meant a young QB holding a clipboard for a year or 2. Not so much anymore of course with young QBs doing well, but we have nothing in the pipe and seemingly no plan for that.

 

Dan is always in win now mode, and I just don't see him ever giving a rats ass about the future.

 

OT, I just got into an argument with a coworker who our GM is. They swear it is Doug Williams making all the decisions.

I agree with you here but why do you think we still won’t draft a QB with a high draft pick this year or next, the FO knows if we go with Colt next year and lose Kirk the fan base will explode. Smith will win games just like Kirk did and has a shiny name that will still attract fans. Get a WR for him, address the defense and if we win a few games early next year people will be talking about how great of a move it was. While hopefully their is a young QB on the bench taking notes. Do you want us to move up in the draft and get  Mayfield? We tried that once.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

43 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Based on what we've seen, do you honestly believe a deal could have even been made?  Kirk gave NO indication that he ever wanted to sign a long term deal.... and admittedly i was one of the loudest supporters of keeping him here.  I've always been a Kirk supporter, but looking back, it appears he never wanted to be here long term.  

I think that is true now, but "never wanted to be here long term"?  I think that is a much more recent development. Maybe this summer with the weak offer from FO. Still could have been corrected if BA wasn't such a little ****. I think it is that Kirk understands that BA never wanted him to be here long term. 

[FrFan]

 

[Wildbunny]

2 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

I think that is true now, but "never wanted to be here long term"?  I think that is a much more recent development. Maybe this summer with the weak offer from FO. Still could have been corrected if BA wasn't such a little ****. I think it is that Kirk understands that BA never wanted him to be here long term. 

 

I think somehow that yes, they wanted to get rid of him. Because they could have gotten him if they really wanted to. The kind of contract they're offering for Smith would have been cool with Kirk as well I think.

Now it's hard to understand why did they do that. That's where I don't get their thinking about it. Last year they made it clear they wanted to sign him badly but Kirk never countered or whatever...

 

The more I read into this, the more it looks like Bruce being petty and goes for Smith so he doesn't have to explain his Boss why did he tagged Kirk a 3rd year or signed him to an awful lot of money when he could have been had two years ago for 19M. Which nowadays would look like a bargain really.

 

Now, BHRBRN is now up to date, There's a good crop of redskins news and analysis down there. Make sure you go read it to keep yourself up to date as well!

[RandyHolt]

12 minutes ago, maxspruill21 said:

I agree with you here but why do you think we still won’t draft a QB with a high draft pick this year or next....

Because I think they value winning now, and throwing in a young QB now will likely fail.

 

? for you - what helps us win games next season, a 3rd string QB on the practice squad/inactive all year, or that stud every down Will - Roquan Smith, or an OLB, say Harold Landry, that you or others are eyeballing us taking at #13 overall?  Or maybe an all down back would be nice to have.  It's a no brainer, right?

 

Moving out Fuller who was basically a starter, and our 3rd rounder, tells me we are not drafting for the future this year. Next year, we will have a year of Alex Smith to grade so let's kick 2 drafts from now debate down the road, even though Smith will be under contract for 2+ additional years.

[kingdaddy]

13 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

So the fact that Denver has a bad cap situation could help us. We could say "We want to transition tag you and trade you to Denver. We know you want to go there. We also know they don't have the cap space to give you the kind of contract we also know you're looking for without jettisoning some players or doing something equally self-defeating. You sign the transition tag and we work out a trade and you guys can figure out a mutually beneficial contract setup. Otherwise you hit FA and you either 1) take Denver's likely less than stellar offer, but for a team you really want to  play for...and we'll match it and forget about Smith (since he isn't actually signed yet) and you'll be ours or 2) You go to a bottom dweller like the Browns or the Jets for huge money since they can afford it...you'll get paid but be on terrible teams.

 

Or you can deal with us now and everyone walks away happy. What will it be?"

 

I suppose he could sign the transition tag and play one more year here. But I don't think he wants to do that. 

Unless I'm missing something I think you could be on to something. I'm sure Denver already knows what it's going to take to sign KC and they will do what they need to do to sign him. However, why wouldn't they just release Talib and others to free up the money? I'm guessing it's because of the cap hit they'd take? So if they trade any of the players they might release to us, assuming we want them, they take no cap hit and free up the money to sign KC? This makes sense to me. Gotta wonder if the Skins are playing this angle and knew that they had a replacement for Fuller before agreeing to the first deal. I highly doubt it but it would be the smart move. One question would have to be "why do we want Talib?" Hasn't he been in trouble with the league both off the field and on it? He sounds like the kind of bad dude you don't want in your organization.

 

[OVCChairman]

7 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

I think that is true now, but "never wanted to be here long term"?  I think that is a much more recent development. Maybe this summer with the weak offer from FO. Still could have been corrected if BA wasn't such a little ****. I think it is that Kirk understands that BA never wanted him to be here long term. 

My gut feels like he's had his mind made up to hit free agency since well before last season... Reports all over the place that he's excited to test free agency, him saying he hasn't been able to choose his destination since he went to Michigan State, and his dad saying he was never going to sign last summer, with no action that he actually wants to be here long term.  

[WelshSkinsFan]

6 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

I think somehow that yes, they wanted to get rid of him. Because they could have gotten him if they really wanted to. The kind of contract they're offering for Smith would have been cool with Kirk as well I think.

 

Cannot imagine this would have been cool with Kirk as it seems highly likely it as lower offer than the one he refused to counter in the summer.  Whilst we don't know exact details the talk has been that almost all of the guaranteed money in the deal is in the form of injury guarantees and so effectively we can opt out after 2 years.  Kirk specifically referred to the 2 year exit ramp as why he was not interested in previous offers, he wants 3 years or more guaranteed fully at signing. 

 

I actually think Mike McCartney is angling to try and get the first ever fully guaranteed contract and I wish we had offered it but that is water under the bridge now.

[UKskins]

20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Unless I'm missing something I think you could be on to something. I'm sure Denver already knows what it's going to take to sign KC and they will do what they need to do to sign him. However, why wouldn't they just release Talib and others to free up the money? I'm guessing it's because of the cap hit they'd take? So if they trade any of the players they might release to us, assuming we want them, they take no cap hit and free up the money to sign KC? 

 

You're missing something. Talib is only a 1mill dead cap... BUT the logic is what I've been saying. Why take a 1mill dead cap when you could take zero dead cap and get exclusive access to cousins for the same price?

 

Even if Cousins isn't on board and wants to wait until FA, we can apply a bit of pressure to the situation. As can Denver if he wants to go there... 'let's get something done now or we'll have to start looking at other options as we're not gonna pin our hopes on a bidding war we can't win. If you want to be a Bronco then let's make it happen'. Makes sense to me, makes sense to Redskins (presuming we're happy to pick up Talib as trade bait if we don't want him permanently), makes tonnes of sense to Denver and it makes sense to Kirk if he is being honest about it not being all about money. 

[clskinsfan]

Tweet about madden trade above:

 

Thank God. At least that proves the conspiracy theories about Allen/Snyder using Madden for their GM decisions to be wrong!

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, UKskins said:

You're missing something. Talib is only a 1mill dead cap... BUT the logic is what I've been saying. Why take a 1mill dead cap when you could take zero dead cap and get exclusive access to cousins for the same price?

 

Even if Cousins isn't on board and wants to wait until FA, we can apply a bit of pressure to the situation. As can Denver if he wants to go there... 'let's get something done now or we'll have to start looking at other options as we're not gonna pin our hopes on a bidding war we can't win. If you want to be a Bronco then let's make it happen'. Makes sense to me, makes sense to Redskins (presuming we're happy to pick up Talib as trade bait if we don't want him permanently), makes tonnes of sense to Denver and it makes sense to Kirk if he is being honest about it not being all about money. 

While in theory, it sounds great... The problem is that Denver wouldn't do it without Kirk's agreement to an extension.  At what point can Kirk talk to Denver about that extension?  I don't know how the collusion rules work, but I would imagine the two sides can't even TALK until the beginning of the league year since Kirk is due to be a free agent.  I assume we were allowed to talk to Alex because he's still under contract.  We can't even apply the tag yet, so we would have to apply the tag in the hopes that Denver and Kirk would play ball.  If things don't work PERFECTLY, then we're hosed. 

[RandyHolt]

56 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

It is. I was reading something wed morning about how Doug Williams was the skins voice behind this trade....

I'd have sworn it was Dan!  Link to share?

[Llevron]

3 hours ago, bobafett14 said:

Alex Smith is going to destroy this forum.

 

1. Alex Smith WILL be followed here by his legion of die-hard, ignorant, stubborn, jackass fans.

2. Smith's play will convince the more easily misled among you that he might actually take your team somewhere.

3. Alex Smith is the only Chiefs QB to ever blow two home playoff games.

4. Other faults: bad on third down and in the red zone, takes good pass protection and turns it into sacks

 

You have no idea the Hell we have lived through. Alex Smith cannot destroy anything. What is dead can never die. 

[UKskins]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

While in theory, it sounds great... The problem is that Denver wouldn't do it without Kirk's agreement to an extension.  At what point can Kirk talk to Denver about that extension?  I don't know how the collusion rules work, but I would imagine the two sides can't even TALK until the beginning of the league year since Kirk is due to be a free agent.  I assume we were allowed to talk to Alex because he's still under contract.  We can't even apply the tag yet, so we would have to apply the tag in the hopes that Denver and Kirk would play ball.  If things don't work PERFECTLY, then we're hosed. 

Oh come on. Have you seen the Broncos media frenzy with their players all giving Elway his mouthpiece. It could easily be done.

 

Beat writer: "Broncos ready to offer Cousins $26mill per year FULLY guaranteed for a 5 year contract per sources"

 

Bruce: "So Kirk, I know you're talking about this FA thing but I just got off the phone with Elway - he's not going to be bidding for you in FA, because he wants a solution, and he wants the QB issue there addressed yesterday. You're his number 1 choice but he isn't going to get into a bidding war because they don't have a whole lot of cap room. He has offered us a bit of collateral to play a tag and trade game if that's something you're interested in. All the fans there are hyped, the players have been in the media and by the way some of the beat writers are talking about a contract offer that you might be interested in. You should really read the story in the Denver Times. Elway is really mad with whoever leaked it. Let me know if you want me to call him back and let you guys start talking."

 

OK - it's a bit hyperbolic, but you get the picture. Elway can't talk to Kirk now, but they've had what 5, maybe 6 Broncos in the media in the last 2 or 3 days saying "We sure would like to play with Kirk" "We think we're a Kirk Cousins away from the Superbowl" etc etc. There is always a way.

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Oh come on. Have you seen the Broncos media frenzy with their players all giving Elway his mouthpiece. It could easily be done.

 

Beat writer: "Broncos ready to offer Cousins $26mill per year FULLY guaranteed for a 5 year contract per sources"

 

Bruce: "So Kirk, I know you're talking about this FA thing but I just got off the phone with Elway - he's not going to be bidding for you in FA, because he wants a solution, and he wants the QB issue there addressed yesterday. You're his number 1 choice but he isn't going to get into a bidding war because they don't have a whole lot of cap room. He has offered us a bit of collateral to play a tag and trade game if that's something you're interested in. All the fans there are hyped, the players have been in the media and by the way some of the beat writers are talking about a contract offer that you might be interested in. You should really read the story in the Denver Times. Elway is really mad with whoever leaked it. Let me know if you want me to call him back and let you guys start talking."

 

OK - it's a bit hyperbolic, but you get the picture. Elway can't talk to Kirk now, but they've had what 5, maybe 6 Broncos in the media in the last 2 or 3 days saying "We sure would like to play with Kirk" "We think we're a Kirk Cousins away from the Superbowl" etc etc. There is always a way.

After the cap penalty, do you really wanna flirt with giving goodell and company the ability to hit us with another fine?  Kirks walking, We're going to get a 3rd rounder for him.  I like the idea if it'll work... i'm just having a hard time seeing how it would, but what do I know? 

[CommDownMan]

57 minutes ago, maxspruill21 said:

 Do you want us to move up in the draft and get  Mayfield? We tried that once.

 

Now that one of Browns, Broncos, Jets (likely) get Kirk, I wonder if Mayfield makes it to 13.  With the Smith extension they won't do it,  but I see more ways it happens.   

 

Then I hope buffalo starts calling to jump Arizona, but that's another thread conversation. 

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

I don't think the cost was that high, tho as stated hated it had to be done and at the expense of losing Fuller. 

 

How could the host not be that high if Fuller was the cost?

 

It didn't have to be done.  Even with a few days to think it over, I still hate the move.  It's completely short-sighted.  We're not winning the Super Bowl because of Alex Smith.  Losing the best slot corner in the game AND a third round pick will hurt us going forward and delay any Super Bowl victory.  It highlights the incompetence of the front office to get a deal done, to find a real GM, and to swallow their pride when ****ing up.  Philly turned it around in TWO YEARS.  Bruce has been ****ing it up for EIGHT.

 

There's no bright side here.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

Now that one of Browns, Broncos, Jets (likely) get Kirk, I wonder if Mayfield makes it to 13.  With the Smith extension they won't do it,  but I see more ways it happens.   

 

Then I hope buffalo starts calling to jump Arizona, but that's another thread conversation. 

this was my dream scenario.. that Buffalo would panic and GB was in love with someone at 14.  I don't care who we deal with if he's there, but with Buff's picks, that could be a heck of a deal to be made.  That said, if Nelson or Payne are there, my hope is that we grab one of them.   

[Bonez3]

Tag Kurt and even if he plays hardball, which he won't, he rides pine for year.

 

hes not sacrificing a year at this stage of his career. 

 

We we will have multiple suitors for trade and the tag has no 'no trade clauses'. The power of tag gives team control over contract rights and players benefit from salary share.  

 

Its a no no brainer for me. Come March 14th the Skins would still be roughly 10 mil over the cap, not even counting potential cuts.

 

fact is, you'd have 2 QBs under contract with obvious ammunition to trade one. 

[PF Chang]

16 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

 

Bruce: "So Kirk, I know you're talking about this FA thing but I just got off the phone with Elway - he's not going to be bidding for you in FA, because he wants a solution, and he wants the QB issue there addressed yesterday. You're his number 1 choice but he isn't going to get into a bidding war because they don't have a whole lot of cap room. He has offered us a bit of collateral to play a tag and trade game if that's something you're interested in. All the fans there are hyped, the players have been in the media and by the way some of the beat writers are talking about a contract offer that you might be interested in. You should really read the story in the Denver Times. Elway is really mad with whoever leaked it. Let me know if you want me to call him back and let you guys start talking."

 

Kirk: I'm extremely uninterested in this. I think I will hit free agency instead and sign with them if I want to. How many Coors Lights deep are you right now?

[CommDownMan]

9 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

this was my dream scenario.. that Buffalo would panic and GB was in love with someone at 14.  I don't care who we deal with if he's there, but with Buff's picks, that could be a heck of a deal to be made.  That said, if Nelson or Payne are there, my hope is that we grab one of them.   

 

Arden key is supposedly dropping.  I don't see Nelson at 13.  But if one of payne, vea or key had a shot at 21/22, id take their 2nd and push for 3rd or another pick next year.   But this is draft talk,  I put same thoughts there. 

[UKskins]

13 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

After the cap penalty, do you really wanna flirt with giving goodell and company the ability to hit us with another fine?  Kirks walking, We're going to get a 3rd rounder for him.  I like the idea if it'll work... i'm just having a hard time seeing how it would, but what do I know? 

Absolutely not, but it can be played out one way or another without putting us on the block. All we need is a conversation with Elway, which is definitely allowed, and a conversation with Kirk's agent saying basically if he wants Denver then he works with us to get there, otherwise Elway is moving on. We have been negotiating with that McCartney prick long enough to know what Kirk is looking for. Telling Denver what he's looking for and them telling us they can make it work is not illegal. Kirk doesn't even actually have to be in the loop any more than to know that Denver is moving on unless a deal can be struck with Cousins early, and we're going to play tag and trade as a show of good faith to him after his loyal service to us.... or some other bull**** to appease him. 

 

I know we're getting into Madden territory here, but I think there are ways this COULD work. Not saying it will, or even that it's likely. You're probably right though and we're too scared of giving the league an opportunity to screw us.

[Bonez3]

5 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Kirk: I'm extremely uninterested in this. I think I will hit free agency instead and sign with them if I want to. How many Coors Lights deep are you right now?

Yea- except it's against the CBA. You can't 'hit free agency' under the tag I put on you.

 

So, again, how's Denver sound. Sign here and all your wildest dreams will come true

[UKskins]

8 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Kirk: I'm extremely uninterested in this. I think I will hit free agency instead and sign with them if I want to. How many Coors Lights deep are you right now?

Not as deep as you are in your negativity pit I guess. Denver could push this if they wanted to. Send players out saying "Man, I REALLY would love Cousins to be a Bronco but we can't wait forever to resolve this QB situation" etc - Denver aren't outbidding the Jets or the Browns so that is in their interest to apply some of their own leverage to the situation if they really want Cousins... We can threaten to tag him and play hardball.... there's lots of permutations to this.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just figured I'd drop this in here, referring to the tweet about Denver 'losing" the Smith sweepstakes which means they think Smith > Cousins...

 

Denver portion of this tweet is false. Broncos did not shop Talib and were not in mix for Alex Smith. This was local radio, pie-in-sky speculation and nothing more. https://t.co/9G7t84ImLD

— Mike Klis (@MikeKlis) February 1, 2018