Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[rumplestilskin]

2 minutes ago, CTskin said:

How does he shop Kirk when everyone knows he's going to hit FA? How/why would he shop Alex Smith when the Chiefs just sold him to their highest bidder, us? We'd never get the value back that we gave up for him. 

 

We'll go into next season with Smith, McCoy, and some late rounder and that's that. All of this crazy talk is distracting.

Kirk can be shopped with the tag and trade threat. Also Smith could be traded to any team after the deadline when he becomes a Skin. Either move would have to be done with the idea that one of them goes. If we changed the word leverage to options it might be easier to digest. I AGREE it's a shot in the dark but I hope that all options are explored to accrue the most value for the team.

[IrepDC]

15 minutes ago, Schwenky said:

 

My point is that there's no point to even shopping either QB - you won't get anything back because every other team knows you are screwed unless you release one of the QB's.  

 

This situation has come up with teams before. Many of those teams got 1st or 2nd round picks. I think our fans are being a bit pessimistic to think it's impossible to sign and trade Cousins. Teams have traded away QBs they didn't need before under the premise that the trading team doesn't have to worry about competition in the market. Yes, Cousins won't be on our team next year, but teams have no guarantee he'll sign with them when he hits free agency. Making the trade forgoes the uncertainty of the open market. This still takes a FO that knows how to do business. I won't assume we'll get nothing just yet. 

[rumplestilskin]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

 

This situation has come up with teams before. Many of those teams got 1st or 2nd round picks. I think our fans are being a bit pessimistic to think it's impossible to sign and trade Cousins. Teams have traded away QBs they didn't need before under the premise that the trading team doesn't have to worry about competition in the market. Yes, Cousins won't be on our team next year, but teams have no guarantee he'll sign with them when he hits free agency. Making the trade forgoes the uncertainty of the open market. This still takes a FO that knows how to do business. I won't assume we'll get nothing just yet. 

Stop making so much sense and thinking outside the box. Your making people feel uncomfortable.

[UKskins]

10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Kirk could just sign the transition tag and NOT look for a long term deal though. And then his trade value is nothing because he would only be under contract for one year at 28 million. No one is going to rent Cousins for a year at 28 million. So either way Kirk still holds ALL of the leverage. 

 

Didn't the Browns, who have an eye watering amount of cap room, just try to do the same thing with Smith, albeit at a much lower number? The word on that was they offered multiple picks - the number is higher so the pick bounty would be less but that's probably their only shot to get Cousins if they want him either on a rental or a LTD, and it's cheaper than his likely yearly rate on a LTD. You really think they wouldn't throw at least a third to us for that? Jets might also bite on that  as that's likely their best shot at him too - in which case the price goes up and you can maybe get a 2nd out of one of them.

 

Kirk is likely going to Denver if he hits FA so if the Jets or Browns take him, they force Denver into a hole where they likely pick Mayfield at #5 and then that suitor is off the table for him next year and they hope to work out a LTD during the rental period.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate, but there is some merit to that idea.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It's probably too soon for me to make a point of this, as it will get lost in the abyss that is this thread.  But I can't help myself.  I was thinking earlier about how it's typical in DC for every loss to be put on the QB and coach, no matter what.  But I think it will be a little different in this scenario.

 

I predict that many of the folks happy with this trade and the acquisition of Alex Smith, touting him as an upgrade and so on, will have his back throughout everything no matter what goes down.  Meaning when the Skins get down and can't come back on Alex Smith's arm, I'll see the same folks talking about the O-line, play calling, lack of running game, porous defense, etc.  Not because those issues aren't valid, but because it aligns with the stance they took.  When it was Cousins dealing with those same issues, they were "excuses".  Much like a lot of folks did with RG3, once they draw their line in the sand, they will go down swinging in an attempt to defend their stance no matter how foolish it appears.

[clskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Didn't the Browns, who have an eye watering amount of cap room, just try to do the same thing with Smith, albeit at a much lower number?

 

Yeah. Pretty big difference between 17 mill and 28 mill though for a one year rental.

[Riggo#44]

I thought I disliked this trade yesterday...now...I somehow feel worse about it

 

 

[bobafett14]

I haven't posted here in many years. But I bring you a warning, from the desert:

 

Alex Smith is going to destroy this forum.

 

1. Alex Smith WILL be followed here by his legion of die-hard, ignorant, stubborn, jackass fans. They destroyed Chiefsplanet over the last five seasons. Nothing was ever Alex's fault. When the team won, though, he got the credit. For four seasons, his below average stats were disregarded by these people because the Chiefs were winning. Then, when he led the team to a 9-7 record this past season (after a 5-0 start mind you), all that mattered were his glorious stats. You can't reason with these people. And when they lose an argument, they will turn nasty. Smith's last year they just started taking personal shots at people on CP, claiming how nothing mattered anyway because Smith has a hot wife and has earned over 100 million dollars. True lunacy.

 

2. Smith's play will convince the more easily misled among you that he might actually take your team somewhere. His low-risk style of play reduces turnovers and will keep your team in games. This is how we went 12-4 and earned the #2 seed in 2015. Smith was actually pretty terrible, throwing only 15 TDs, but his conservative play allowed Tyreek Hill's punt returns and a series of miraculous plays by Eric Berry and the defense to take what was really a bad offense and elevate what should have been an 8-8/9-7 team and earn a bye. In the playoffs, those miracles stopped, Smith missed countless open receivers, including three times for TDs, and we blew another home playoff game.

 

3. Alex Smith is the only Chiefs QB to ever blow two home playoff games. And don't get me started on his game in New England in the 2015 Divisional round. He missed Travis Kelce on two first half TDs that could have been the difference. He started the game 10-22 for 65 freaking yards, putting the team in a 14-3 hole at halftime. If you don't have absolutely sick offensive talent, like we do in Kelce and Hill, he's going to make your receivers look worse. He won't throw into tight windows, and won't throw deep unless you have...you guessed it...Tyreek Hill. In 2015, he was the WORST intermediate and deep passer in football. Look it up.

 

4. Other faults: bad on third down and in the red zone, takes good pass protection and turns it into sacks because he hates stepping up in the pocket, will run OUT of clean pockets (this cost us the WC game against the Titans), eyes drop at the first sign of pressure. He's mobile, but almost never runs to pass. He runs because he's a coward who wants to pick up first downs with his legs.

 

None of these matters to the Alexian Invasion, though. They have spent seven years defending him on 49ers forums and Chiefs forums, they are going to come here and do the same. The other 52 guys on your roster are about to become villains who are standing in the way of Smith's greatness.

 

There's nothing you can do to avoid this, short of just banning these people. I weep for your future.

 

As a Chiefs fan, I never wanted Alex Smith. I knew he was just a continuation of the mediocrity that had doomed the Chiefs for over a decade when he arrived. For five years, he basically made football completely un-enjoyable for me, because I knew there was absolutely no point to a football team led by Alex Smith. There never has, and there never will be.

The Chiefs never had any shot at winning the division when Peyton Manning was in it, which basically meant they had no shot at a Super Bowl, because you can't win three playoff games on the road with Alex Smith as your QB.

When Manning retired, the Chiefs backed into a division title because Derek Carr got hurt. Smith then proceeded to blow that gift with his awful performance in the 2016 Divisional round.

 

And this last season, though he finally figured out how to utilize the best deep threat in football, it still only led to the fourth seed because Smith blew five games in the middle of the season, after the Steelers exposed his weaknesses against the Cover 2 defense in Week 6. The Chiefs had the #1 seed and lost games to the Giants, Bills and Steelers, games in which the defense held the opponent under 20 each time, because Smith turned back into a pumpkin for most of the game, and then blew game-winning drives.

You could see the playoff meltdown coming, and 33 yards passing against the Titans sealed Alex's fate.

 

But I could see all of this coming on the day the trade was announced. And so I spent five years battling the Alexians, who ever turned my own fan base against me. Argument after argument. GIF after GIF of missed receivers, dumb sacks taken and general disappointing QB play. I almost tore my hair out over it all. I became obsessed with arguing these people because it was the only form of fandom I had left. I wanted my football team back so badly. I piped all the energy I had once put into being a rabid fan into debating these people, into showing the fan base how futile it was to have Alex Smith as our QB.

 

And I was proven right. And now I am free.

 

I'm so, so sorry. You're still not prepared for what is to come.

This torch is now yours to bear. I pass it to you. Wear it well as you fight the darkness of Pyrrhic victory. 

Let the flag fly:

 

Sincerely,

 

An Alex Smith survivor.

[WelshSkinsFan]

The tag and trade for a 1 year rental is potentially very risky and carries with it the likelihood that interested teams will just wait it out knowing we may have to cut Kirk to get under the cap if he signs the tag.  The only way to do this where you remove the risk of it screwing up your cap is if you have a trade partner and deal in place before tagging and you have Kirk actively supporting what you want to do.

 

Kirk is not going to do us any favors, certainly if he wants Denver and they want him he would wait for FA rather than commit to a deal that will strip his new team of resources.  The only way he agrees to this is if the deal is one that Denver actively wants such as the proposed trade for Talib whereby it is actually helping Denver to get a bloated contract off their books in order to pay Kirk what he wants and maybe add another FA or two.

 

The likelihood of this scenario actually coming true is miniscule but it is the offseason so what else are we going to talk about

[UKskins]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Yeah. Pretty big difference between 17 mill and 28 mill though for a one year rental.

Also a pretty big difference in whether they would want to sign Kirk to a LTD or not vs signing Smith to a LTD - if they did want Kirk on a LTD, they don't really have any other shot than paying him so much money that they will be a perennially bad football team (which would be shocking for the Browns right? ).

[IrepDC]

15 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Kirk could just sign the transition tag and NOT look for a long term deal though. And then his trade value is nothing because he would only be under contract for one year at 28 million. No one is going to rent Cousins for a year at 28 million. So either way Kirk still holds ALL of the leverage. 

The same way our trade for Smith including working out a long term deal... Kansas City fans could have said the same things being said here about a one year deal not being tradeable.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

I thought I disliked this trade yesterday...now...I somehow feel worse about it

 

 

Yeah, if it wasn't before, it's pretty much doomsday from here.

 

John Feinstein is probably the absolute worst person to share an opinion with.  Guy talks to hear himself speak and I still can't figure out why he's even remotely relevant in this area.  Not that I think highly of Bruce, but I can't help but laugh at Feinstein going out of his way to credit Doug for a situation that John knows nothing about how it went down.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

The same way our trade for Smith including working out a long term deal... Kansas City fans could have said the same things being said here about a one year deal not being tradeable.

Agreed. But there is a major difference in the money involved 17 mill vs. 28 mill

[SWFLSkins]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I thought I disliked this trade yesterday...now...I somehow feel worse about it

 

 

Why> ? serious question, aside from the Fuller loss, which stings I don't see this as a negative sum trade at all. The Redskins got out of a nightmare that had no clear or good ending. This was as good an out as possible, IMO. Smith is a good QB, >>>>Cousins. Jay must of really liked this deal. Kirk didn't wanna be here, it is clear. 

Oh this guy, I got ya,,lol

[Renegade7]

It's almost like there should be a separate thread about the media response to this.  Even Washington Post likes it, and they hate us.

[fwo40]

21 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I thought I disliked this trade yesterday...now...I somehow feel worse about it

 

 

Feinstein and Cowherd the greatest football minds of our generation lining up behind this move.   Fantastic.  All we need now is Steven A Smith.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, fwo40 said:

Feinstein and Cowherd the greatest football minds of our generation lining up behind this move.   Fantastic.  All we need now is Steven A Smith.

 

Don't forget Max "Where's My Camera?!" Kellerman

[SWFLSkins]

3 minutes ago, fwo40 said:

Feinstein and Cowherd the greatest football minds of our generation lining up behind this move.   Fantastic.  All we need now is Steven A Smith.

 

Yesterday I found myself in agreement with Cowherd, Grant Paulsen and Skip Bayless.............It was a full moon, lol. 

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Don't forget Max "Where's My Camera?!" Kellerman

 

I guess the question was skipped and it's just based on distaste for the author, ok> But really why don't you like the trade? 

[Unbias]

32 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

 

This situation has come up with teams before. Many of those teams got 1st or 2nd round picks. I think our fans are being a bit pessimistic to think it's impossible to sign and trade Cousins. Teams have traded away QBs they didn't need before under the premise that the trading team doesn't have to worry about competition in the market. Yes, Cousins won't be on our team next year, but teams have no guarantee he'll sign with them when he hits free agency. Making the trade forgoes the uncertainty of the open market. This still takes a FO that knows how to do business. I won't assume we'll get nothing just yet. 

 

You are right on both fronts. It's possible, but not plausible. I can think of two comparable situations:

 

Matt Cassel - The key differences was that was the first franchise tag and it's $ commitment was way less. Also they got a 2nd. 

Sam Bradford - That was an extension before free agency, then a trade. That only worked because Bradford through he was the guy, then trading up for Wentz became an option. I'd also say Howie Roseman was smart enough to resign a guy to a deal that was also movable. 

 

the second area you are right is that this takes an FO that knows how to do business, which the Skins have shown they cannot. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

This will get buried and is probably best-served in the State of the Roster, Draft or FA threads ... but hear me out. When healthy, Washington has a solid defense with young pieces. On offense, the OL is very good when healthy, although there's a potential hole at LG, and an unkown as to whether that can be filled internally (does Long come back and play LG?). If you look at teams that have made turnarounds in the last few years, it's been on the back of defense and a strong running game. We've had the big passing numbers the last 3 years with Kirk and it hasn't gotten us very much. Granted, he didn't have a defense behind him, but he certainly didn't have a running game.

 

When the Redskins ran the ball effetively the past 2 years, they won. Problem is, they never committed and got away from it more often than not. But the running game wasnt exactly "good" to begin with.

 

Want to make the playoffs his year? You've got a competent QB who has some wheels and can make plays. But he is more of a west-coast guy. He can win games, and put up numbers, but is best when he has a rushing attack to work with. Here are your off-season priorities, whether through the draft or FA ...

 

1. Stud RB

2. High-Quality LG

3. Defensive depth/playmakers (ILB, DL, FS)

4. Deep-threat WR

 

We already have a lot of $ invested in the OL so ideally you draft a stud LG, but that would need to be found in the 1st or 2nd. Same with a stud RB (especially without a 3rd). Use the 4th5th/6th on depth on defense. Use FA money to lure in a speedy WR and re-sign Bown and maybe another piece on the DL.

 

Imagine the offense, fully healthy in 2018, with Isaiah Wynn at LG and Sony Michel or Derrius Guice at RB?

 

And in one sense, a trade own might be how you accomplish this. If you can get 21 and 22 from Buffalo, you can go RB-G there ... then use 44 on a good defender that falls.

[NoCalMike]

When a player is tagged, franchise or transition.  Is the tag sealed to them for the entire offseason or can it be rescinded up to a certain date no harm no foul?  If it is the later, then I would tag Kirk at least with the transitional tag.  If no team bites, then rescind it.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Yesterday I found myself in agreement with Cowherd, Grant Paulsen and Skip Bayless.............It was a full moon, lol. 

 

I guess the question was skipped and it's just based on distaste for the author, ok> But really why don't you like the trade? 

 

Smith's age, how they handled the Cousins negotiations for three years, the extension they gave Smith (albeit we don't know the details yet). All of which weren't bad, per se. They weren't great, but not awful. Throwing in Fuller and a 3rd is just Cerrato-level dumb when there are decent, younger QBs available in FA. I would have rather taken a 1-yr flyer on Bridgewater/Bradford/Keenum/Taylor and kept the 3rd and Fuller.

[justice98]

57 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

So you want to tie up 30 million dollars in cap space in HOPES of trading Kirk for something? Lets say you can trade him for a 2nd rounder like the Pats got for Garoppolo. If we let him leave via FA we are going to get a 3rd rounder anyways. It is not worth the monetary risk for a pick one round better. I guess technically you could do it. 

 

The 3rd isnt guaranteed if they wind up signing somebody to negate it.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

The 3rd isnt guaranteed if they wind up signing somebody to negate it.

If Breeland or Brown walk and get a big deal, that would likely be negated by whoever we bring in if we brought in an equally big contract. Cousins will be hard to wipe out with Breeland and Brown possibly leaving as well.

 

Say Kirk walks, and Breeland signs for $9-10 million elsewhere. If we don't bring in another $9-10 million contract, we likely get a 3rd for Cousins and a 4th for Breeland.

 

If Breeland leaves and signs for $9-10 million and we go sgn someone like Allen Robinson for $9-10 million, those two would wash each other out. And Cousins would net us the 3rd.

[Butz65]

http://es.pn/2GEKiVK